naneb - Hi everyone
naneb - what grade does everyone teach?
jl-oreo - first grade
emma - I'm 2nd
Kerry - I teach 3rd
shayde - I teach 3rd
naneb - I teach special ed middle school
emma - naneb, aren't you from MS?
naneb - I have 5 classes of reading for 6-8th grade
justjoan - kindergarten
naneb - yes, emma I am
Linda - I teach 2nd
emma - So am I. Now I live in AZ. I miss the rain and greenery .
shayde - have all of you been using the 4 blocks guided reading?
justjoan - I have not done 4 blocks in Kgn. any suggestions?
Kerry - This will be my second year with 4 Blocks
Linda - I will be starting 4 block this year
jl-oreo - I will begin teaching four blocks this fall
naneb - joan, have you gotten the Building Blocks books?
shayde - justjoan, the kinder program is called building blocks.
justjoan - my school has ordered them for me, naneb
Linda - Anyone have suggestions on grading/assessing in Guided Reading
naneb - grades have always been my biggest problem too
Linda - I am glad I'm not the only one then
emma - GR is my block I haven't gotten a clear focus on. Maybe the haze will lift a little talking to you-all.
shayde - I suppose grades in guided reading depends on the type of report card you use?
naneb - I had a hard time with GR at first but now it is easier, remember you are teaching comprehension and that is what is important, you don't have to read all of a selection or every story
Linda - In my school we use the traditional numerical grading
Linda - Parents would freak if they received a checklist
naneb - I do my plans with a Before section, a During section and an After section, this helps me to keep focused
Linda - naneb, you just said that you didn't have to read all of a selection. I was under the impression you did.
jl-oreo - We use O(outstanding) S (satisfactory) N(needs improvement
Alta Rose - We use Exceeds Expectations, Meets Expectations, Minimally Meets Exp and Does not meet expectations.
shayde - My main problem w/GR is simplifying from our curriculum to a more focused comprehension instruction
Linda - My parents want numbers on the grade cards
Linda - they also expect weekly reading tests
Alta Rose - What grade, Linda?
Linda - I teach 2nd
naneb - Linda, what I meant was that you may not always be able to read all of a story, you are teaching comprehension skils and that is what is important and not just covering the stories in the book
emma - Last year I did 3 of the blocks and this year I tried to do GR the 4 blocks way and my test scores plummeted. Especially in Lang. We have a short day and I think my kids need to have more lang. skills drilled over and over.
jl-oreo - kerry what grade do you teach
shayde - naneb, that's important to remember or you'll go way over the allotted time
Alta Rose - Thanks for your answer re. my ERT question Brad. I will start doing what you said.
kerry - 3rd
brad - emma, what kind of lang.skills?
kerry - i teach at Fredericksburg
brad - not gospel, alta, just my way of doing things
Alta Rose - It sounds good to me.
shayde - emma, do you have a lot of native american students?
jl-oreo - Kerry I teach at Maple St. School in Orrville!!! My husband and I love to go to Gilead Balm Manor in Fred.
emma - Capitalization, punctuation, usage, Brad
brad - Emma, that should be taught in writing, not necessarily GR.
emma - Not too many, shayde. Mostly anglo and Hispanic
Alta Rose - What tests are you referring to, emma?
emma - I know Brad. I did that. It didn't stick.
brad - Myself, I'm going to be making some "sponge" activities that cover those kinds of skills that look more like our standardized tests. Just so they're familiar with format.
Jody - Emma, did you see what specifically your students failed in--test score wise?
Alta Rose - What grade, Emma?
shayde - the writing block is where the language skills are taught, emma. I teach extra language. Transfer is the key.
emma - At least it didn't prepare them for the test, the way I did it this year. Next year we will do daily lang act. 1st thing each morning!!!
brad - Yeah, you may have to Emma, just so they know the format.
sharon - I am wondering what type of lesson you find most effective for guided reading.
shayde - like brad, we do some activities that look something like what they get on the test
Jody - Emma, have you tried having the students create their own sentences (writing) that have the specific convention you're focusing on? I certainly don't see much transfer when we do DOL type things.
brad - Yeah, DOL never worked for me either. (and they hated it)
emma - Thanks, Brad for understanding. I thought I would get berated. But I still love 4 Blocks and will never abandon it.
Jody - My students are primarily ESL & wksht/DOL type vocabulary isn't always recognizable either for them to be successful--which also hinders their learning.
emma - Well, DOL transfers to the Stanford 9 and that's what counts in our district and state.
brad - deb said to me once, "Four Blocks is good FIRST teaching," and I thought a lot about that statement. No one thing will be "fruits and berries" for everyone. Four Blocks provides the foundation, but we still may have to implement interventions.
debbie - Sharon (effective lesson for GR) - it depends on the story. Have you used the ideas from GR, 4 Blocks book?
shayde - sharon, no one lesson should be used all the time. I think students need a variety of approaches to learn comprehension
Jody - I really like Mosaic of Thought/Strategies that Work for teaching GR.
emma - I've done DOL every year except this and my lang. scores have always been very good, until this year....
sharon - Yes, I have that book. I just wonder what other people are doing. I am the only 3rd grade teacher at my school.
brad - deb said to me once, "Four Blocks is good FIRST teaching," and I thought a lot about that statement. No one thing will be "fruits and berries" for everyone. Four Blocks provides the foundation, but we still may have to implement interventions.
Alta Rose - Sorry, Emma, I missed what kind of test you are referring to.
shayde - sharon, I'll be the only 3rd grade teacher at our school this year. Any suggestions?
debbie - Brad, interventions are a great idea!! The problem is always fitting everything in.
emma - It's the Stanford 9 achievement test--2nd grade, Alta Rose
Alta Rose - I also implemented MOT strategies for the first time this past year. Fits very nicely with 4B.
brad - That is the rough part, debbie (deb?)
emma - Amen, debbie!! That's my biggest problem
Jody - Our new principal will strongly be encouraging working & planning together this coming year. I'm worried about 4B.
Jody - MOT definitely helped keep me focused on what I should be teaching.
Alta Rose - Worried because the rest of your staff doesn't do 4B, Jody?
brad - So what does everyone find the roughest part about implementing GR?
shayde - I think 4B is great and as teachers we should have fun with it!
Jody - Well, I mostly am referring to our grade level---and yes.
Alta Rose - Thinking, brad...
Jody - They do textbook/wksht & our admin seems to be leaning toward lit centers. So, I'm nervous all the way around.
emma - Brad, finding time to do before, during, and after all in one 40 minute time slot!
kerry - A problem I had was that my higher kids would get done too soon and get bored.
brad - (grumble, grumble, lit centers, grumble...)
Jody - This new principal seems to be releasing new info gradually so I don't know much. School is still in session for this year so I keep tuning in...
shayde - I mentioned that my problem is focusing-not following the curriculum as a bible
Alta Rose - I guess making sure I stay focused on my objective...Before, during and after...
Jody - I'm afraid my grade level won't like me much--lol--and the admin will press me on why i'm not working as part of a team. I worry about things before they get here--lol!
emma - Centers were a disaster for me. All that work and very little on-task behavior.
brad - It's a legitimate concern, though, Jody
Alta Rose - You don't do lit centers do you, brad?
brad - Alta, surely you jest?
Jody - Emma, I agree---and so does my grade level. So, that's not a problem. But, they're all about wkshts. & won't be using the new reading series in the same way, etc etc.
sharon - shayde- I just saw your note about being the only 3rd grade teacher. I
emma - Yes, Alta Rose, I agree. Keeping the focus on that one objective can be tough sometimes.
Alta Rose - Perhaps...
brad - Kerry, you may want to spend just a small amount of time or when you plan thinking of "sponges" for those students. Just make it related to the learning and not any true "extra" work. Also, don't make it too "fun" that everyone rushes to get done to do it
Jody - i know brad. i'm afraid those 3 days before school starts, she's going to say, this is what i want you to do w/ the new series. i don't know why she can't say now. i'll be planning for my new 4B year by the time we go back before school starts. but, new info being given weekly--in dribs & drabs.
shayde - good suggestion, brad
sharon - I think one thing that helps me is talking to other teachers on line or at seminars I attend
brad - I rarely have had that problem, though, Kerry. I wonder what I might be doing (right?)....LOL
Jody - teachers.net --w/ all the teachers there has been a valuable resource to me.
brad - Jody, that would be frustrating
shayde - jody, can you set up an appt. with her and ask her flat out to fill you in?
kerry - well, this was my first year in a classroom position AND doing 4 Blocks, so i'm hoping to learn...
brad - Four blocks board and prof reading boards are very helpful. (I tune into other boards occasionally but some can be nasty)
Alta Rose - Is she up to speed on 4B, Jody?
brad - Maybe it's grouping, Kerry? When do you find this happening?
kerry - i have found so much info from the chatboards. they really are a big help.
Jody - well, i'm trying to play by the "ignorance is bliss"---lol! maybe if i keep my mouth shut, nothing will be mandated, but if i start asking cause i have my own agenda, then she'll start to mandate. kind of silly---lol!
sharon - I really like this web site though, I have found much useful information.
brad - I understand that stance Perfectly, Jody
emma - Well, here's the kicker at our school. 3rd grade (4 teachers) have workbooks for every subject. Workbook for Reading, one for Spelling, one for vocab., one for science, one for phonics. Their kids did great on the Stanford. I am feeling so discouraged because all our emphasis is on testing now and the workbook/worksheet teachers are soooo smug and gloating because their test scores were the best. Dang it all!!!!!!
kerry - "during" reading, in partners, small groups, etc.
naneb - Jody, I have often found the keep your mouth and your door shut philosophy works well most of the time
Linda - I have also. It encourages me to keep trying with 4 blocks.
sharon - I usually go by the philosophy of "ask for forgiveness not permission."
Alta Rose - Frustrating, emma...
Jody - don't know alta. our district has been divided into regions--and, i'm afraid they're going toward lit centers & grouping. we're at risk also. our old principal didn't mandate anything & she observed a GR lesson this year as well as Words & just said how wonderful the lesson were. but, this principal is looking to make positive changes---so i don't know her philosophies per se.
brad - Be prepared with the research, Jody. Adminstrators don't have time to read research usually, and are impressed and back down when presented with some.
brad - ANd then collect data to prove your way works
brad - Emma, was this your first year with 4B
Jody - i worried all year about my kids--most esl. i think they showed great improvements--and i hope to do much better at teaching next year--w/ it being my 2nd year at 4B. i wonder about the other teachers who did wkbks all year, but their scores aren't available to me.
sharon - The one year I had another 3rd grade teacher to work with she was like the worksheet queen. Her kids did EVERY page in that reading workbook. I had parents ask my about it afterwards. I just had to tell them that we had different ideas.
emma - Yes, Brad, with ALL 4 blocks up and running. The other 2 years I was getting used to a block at a time.
Jody - i just talked to our gr level chair & he's actually hiding a set of our old reading texts cause he has all these units all prepared & doesn't want to lose all that work. i just laughed & kept my mouth shut. new series makes no difference to me. i just wanted the extra book options.
debbie - Emma, can you assign workbooks as homework? My district adopted Scott Foresman and they come with workbooks for spelling and some of the language arts stuff. My plan is to pick and choose and to give as homework. I'm not a worksheet teacher. Maybe it
Alta Rose - Sharon--That reminds me of my 2nd year teaching. There was me and one traditional teacher in Gr. 1. We each had a twin. Mom came to me to complain our ways were so different...My child had barely used her scissors and glue! I felt like screaming--"She doesn't need glue to learn to read!"
kerry - how does everyone assess students' comprehension? i struggled with getting report card grades.
brad - LOL Alta
sharon - It can be a little awkward. In my case it was cousins comparing.
Linda - that is my problem as well (grades)
brad - Emma, give yourself time. You're still getting it together. I also think some years, it is just that particular class
kerry - it doesn't make sense to give the publisher's tests, because that is not what i taught.
Jody - i usually grade/look over what ever they produced during guided reading--their inferences, questions or whatever. nothing great on assessment. and, i certainly don't know how to test. i don't know that i see the point of an end of the story test per se like everyone else doesl
debbie - kerry, there are some good rubrics you could follow, it really depends on the grade level.
brad - I assess with a comprehension quiz once a week in this block. That's what goes in my book, along with the occasional check-up reading conference. That usually gives me all I need for report cards
shayde - For assessment, I give comprehension quizzes weekly. You know, a reading worksheet with questions in a mult. choice format, like the "tests"
emma - debbie, I only have a spelling workbook. I tried to get away from all that. But maybe it's time to do some at other times during the day.
Jody - what do you mean by comp quiz brad? end of the story quiz or mot strategy quiz or what?
kerry - debbie, do you have a website for rubrics? i teach 3rd.
brad - Shayde, I use the testing format of our standardized tests for my quizzes too
Linda - brad, you have houghton mifflin don't you
debbie - kerry, use the reading series story for GR. Teach some of the language arts stuff during your writing mini-lessons.
brad - Yes, Houghton Mifflin
sharon - I do give tests over stories we read, but I make my own. I did not like the tests that came with the series. The only subject I don't make my own tests for is math (We do Saxon at our school.)
Alta Rose - I find it really helps to be proactive, esp. in Gr. 1. I send a note home explaining that there won't be lots of worksheets coming home, and then proceed to explain how I teach phonics. (What parents worry about most.) That really helps.
brad - emma, stop doubting yourself!! It'll be okay, And we're all here.
emma - Brad, this class was the LAZIEST group I've ever had. It was really hard to get them motivated except for lunch, recess, and P.E.!!!
Jody - is it very important to test over content of the story--cause i haven't been? wasn't sure that it was assessing anything valuable.
brad - For gods sakes, don't subject them to the spelling workbook again!!
Linda - Brad, do you use the end of selection tests or just the theme tests
brad - emma, alta and naneb can tell you, I had a rough group this year as well.
shayde - we have houghton mifflin, too
brad - Linda, the district requires that we give Integrated Theme Tests. What are "end of selection" tests?
Linda - shayde, which series is yours? Mine is Legacy of Literacy
naneb - He has the scars to prove it too
emma - Thanks, brad. Yeah, I think I'll throw out the Sp. workbook. I hate it and the kids hate it.
Alta Rose - LOL, Nan!
Linda - Brad, the end of selection tests are the ones the teacher's edition recommends after each story
brad - Jody, I'm split on testing content and testing strategies. The strategies are what you want to transfer so of course, you want to assess that. We're not teaching "Arthur's Pet Business," we're teaching READING. However, the strategies are not ends in themselves. They are a method of better understanding the CONTENT of the story. So I try to do an even assessment
Alta Rose - LOL--(10 year old just said: "Why are you chatting? It's not Friday! )
Linda - We were told that our series is designed to be used with 4 blocks. I don't know yet!
brad - Maybe that's why I don't understand "end of selection" tests. We don't have them in Invitations to Literacy (which I think is slightly older)
Jody - well, i figured by the time you do "after reading" everyday, won't a lot of kids pick up things orally--so you're really not assessing their reading.
brad - LOL Alta
emma - What series is that Linda?
Jody - and, i'm unsure how to assess comp strategies as well.
Jody - and, apparently, i've forgotten how to use question marks--lol!
shayde - legacy of literacy, too
Linda - Emma, Legacy of Literacy
kerry - i heard somewhere that CLOZE is a good way to assess for 4 Blocks. anyone do this?
brad - Linda, HM works perfectly with 4B.
emma - Who publishes it, Linda?
brad - I've heard that too, Kerry, but I'm not sure I agree.
kerry - i did it a couple of times, but it didn't work well with all the stories.
Linda - we were told that we were already suppose to be teaching by 4 blocks however we have never had any instruction in how to.
Linda - Emma, Houghton Mifflin does
brad - Well, It's just that there are sometimes many sensible words that could fit in the Cloze, just how would you grade?
debbie - kerry, try this website for some ideas on rubrics. http://home.nyc.rr.com/teachertools/Rubrics%20Websites.html
sharon - I do use CLOZE sometimes. I also have them make a story map that tells the important points. (characters, setting, beginning, middle, end etc>
brad - 4 Blocks is such a catch word now.
brad - I"ve done story maps, too, Sharon. Sometimes re-tells
brad - THe problem with re-tells, is I'm not sure how transferable that is
Alta Rose - Jody--re. assessing comp. strategies--With 2nd graders this year, I often had questions like this on their quiz: "Tell a connection you were able to make." "Describe a picture you had in your head." "Write a question you asked yourself," etc. Often I gave them a choice of which question to answer.
emma - Hey brad, did you know that Gay Sue Pinnell is calling her program 3 blocks plus her leveled GR??
brad - naneb, don't you go back soon?
brad - That's good stuff, Alta. Thanks.
naneb - Brad, I go back august 3rd with kids back on Aug. 7
emma - It's in her latest book on teaching GR in K-3.
brad - Did you then use a rubric to assess the "question" they came up with?
Alta Rose - Emma--???
Alta Rose - Emma--???
Jody - well, how did you grade that? cause, all questions aren't exactly great ones---so how did you grade that? thanks for responding alta---i've been wondering this all year.
debbie - A cloze does assess comprehension. Actually, it isn't much different than guess the covered word, in my opinion.
brad - Ready, (Nan)?
sharon - wow, you guys go back early. I think we start 8/26
emma - Yes Alta Rose?
naneb - when you teaching questioning you need to teach what makes a good question and have them explain how the question helped them understand the text better
naneb - Brad, I am not really sure what I am evn going to be teaching
Jody - yes, naneb. just wondering how that was assessed for test purposes.
brad - How so, Nan?
Alta Rose - Well, for 2nd graders, if they were able to answer the question, they got credit for it. However, my Taylor, when my Taylor had a THICK question, I would make note of it, and at P/T conference and report cards it would be commented on.
naneb - the whole point of teaching the comprehension strategies is to improve comprehension so, the comprehension is what is important not the question itself
Alta Rose - Sorry, emma, I was commenting on what you said about Pinnell and 3Blocks.
emma - Alta Rose, did I miss a question from you. If so, I'm sorry. Please repeat.
naneb - I teach older kids and I require a written response as part of a grade so, they would have to wirte a paragraph and use an example from the text to prove their point
Jody - but, i'm still hung up on scoring wise---since i need to work on the assessment part
brad - So go on with that, Nan.....are you saying that....well, what should we do, in your opinion?
sharon - Alta Rose I like your ideas about asking questions. I sometimes asked them to describe a character, but got things like. He was a boy. He was in fifth grade. I like your question ideas. Still thinking indepth about the story, but less able to give quickie answers.
Jody - i guess what brad mentioned earlier. rubric maybe for the diff comp strategies--and what they came up with on the test.... ????
brad - what about asking them a "question" they had from the story and then having them answer the question?
Alta Rose - That's one of the MOT strategies, Sharon.
Jody - but, aren't some questions inferential & a bit deeper so not necessarily going to be answered.
sharon - MOT is new to me.
naneb - I always had problems with grades too, I want them to be authentic and sometimes they seemed so contrived.
brad - ITA, Nan
emma - deb smith almost blew a gasket the other time we were in this meeting room. Says Pinnell is stealing Cunningham and Hall's ideas and making them fit her program.
Alta Rose - Good idea, Brad.
Jody - i agree naneb.
debbie - Besides rivet, etc., what do others do for vocabulary?
brad - I try not to comment on F and P. It just stirs waters and gets no where fast.
naneb - My questioning study ended up being a combination of questions and inference, my students had to determine how they answered their question and find the evidence in the story, then write an explaination
sharon - we sometimes act out words
kerry - debbie - at a differentiated instruction workshop, we talked about using charades for vocabulary.
brad - Even the questions that aren't necessarily answered they could theorize on, maybe, Jody?
Jody - my kids got bored of rivet quickly. this may not be great, but i had my kids look up the words in the story (w/ pg numbers) & infer from the p-graph/sentence what words mean. then, later, i discussed actual meanings & they predicted how the word would be used in story & proved it aftwerward (partly from GR book i think)
Alta Rose - Another thing I did re. comp. strategies: I did student-led conferences this spring (It was the 4th time I'd met with these parents, due to looping, so I didn't have anything more to say!
brad - CAUTION--when we "charaded" vocabulary in college, we came up with shortcut ways to charade that had NOTHING to do with the meaning,
sharon - of topic, but we do charades for "verbs" too.
Jody - yes, i know brad. i was just using MOT for the first time this year--as well as 4B so i plan to be more organized in my instruction now that i have half a clue
naneb - even inferred questions have something in the text that leads to the inference
Jody - very clever alta rose.
kerry - another vocab idea - have the students guess what part of the story the word related to. for example, is it part of the setting, character, problem, solution.etc.
Jody - well, couldn't prior knowledge/background make them infer?
emma - ok, Alta Rose
Jody - i had my kids do a lot of questioning w/ a ruby bridges book set i had. they seemed to really get involved due to the content.
brad - Jody, for authenticism (is that a word?) don't preteach vocab. Make them come up with the words.
Alta Rose - That's a lot to implement in one year, Jody. I'm sure you did very well.
debbie - The whole idea of GR is to develop schema and for them to make connections.
Jody - makes sense brad. can you explain further?
Alta Rose - That's right. I've discovered lately that lots of times I assume kids will know certain words, and they don't.
naneb - Jody, that is true but there would still be some aspect of the story that lead to the connection to themselves. I think it is important for kids to understand the purpose of the strategies is to help them comprehend the text
Jody - well, alta, don't ask me about ssr or writing blocks--lol! no bragging there. thanks alta
unz - where are you guys from?
Jody - yes, thanks naneb. i'll be fine tuning my comp instruction this year
brad - Most of my vocab is in-process. It's what they came up with. Words they had trouble with. Sometimes it was decoding and other times it was TRULY a word they needed to know the meaning of. Nothing worse than teaching something they already know.
unz - i'm a first grade teacher form riverside, ca
naneb - debbie, the whole idea of GR is to improve comprehension of text, connections is just one aspect of this
kerry - unz - i'm 3rd from ohio
Jody - i know. but, pressure from the outside about my vocabulary instruction--kwim? so, i thought occasionally i'd do it beforehand. do you ever do it before?
unz - hi terry!
lynn - unz, wow i'm from ca, too
brad - ONce in a great while, Jody.
emma - I agree, naneb.
debbie - naneb, when we make connections we do comprehend better.
unz - sorry kerry!!!
sharon - More vocab - I just read an idea that had the children draw a picture that would remind them of the meaning of the word. I haven't tried this yet but I think I will. I would just have them fold a peice of notebook paper into the right number of squares and have them put a vocab word in each square. I suppose there would have to be a time limit or this lesson could take an hour.
brad - I did it for Tony's Bread for all of the Italian vocabulary
Jody - i know vocab is naturally picked up from within the reading too--but i thought i read that some should be pre taught as well. i didn't always. like i said before, just dabbling & trying stuff out this year.
kirtzee - I'm from CA too.
naneb - Brad, I do my vocabulary instruction that same way, I occasionally introduce a word before we read but usually I let the kids find words that give them trouble. They write them on a postit note along with the page number so that we can refer back to the book
Anne-Marie - Hi everyone! Does anyone have any ideas on how I can use our title 1 reading teacher in the classroom? She is going to be in my room 2 days out of a six day cycle for an hour and a half. I think she plans to do leveled groups during that time even though she knows I do 4B guided reading!
Alta Rose - Yes, debbie, but there are other strategies that help with comprehension as well.
kirtzee - Are you all third Grade?
Jody - sharon, i did something similiar in 5th grade, but it took a lot of time (i think each box had synonym, sentence, etc.). didn't seem to learn anything from it though. so, haven't used that this year.
brad - Defo, Nan. We always talk about the word in context. Even when I preteach, I pull the sentence out of the text that contains the word to read and talk about.
naneb - debbie, you are right connections do help you comprehend better but it is not the only thing we do during GR
Alta Rose - I just finished 2nd, and will be going back to 1st, Kirtzee.
Jody - naneb--do you take the most frequently noted words or what? how do you organize that for the whole class?
kirtzee - FIrst can be fun, but alot of work!
naneb - Brad, you know I do some guess the covered word for vocabulary too
brad - Anne-Marie, maybe she can conference during SSR and WRiting blocks
Jody - so, the kids have a purpose for reading--and they note words they were unsure about?
unz - i really like the guess the covered word.
naneb - Jody, I look for problem words that kids might not know
brad - Sure, Nan. But do you cover the vocab word?
Alta Rose - Jody, sometimes I gave the kids sticky notes and they jotted down words they didn't know when they were reading. We'd discuss them after.
Jody - but, you talk about them after reading naneb?
brad - I have found Jody, that many words they have trouble with are alike, so it's not much to discuss
Alta Rose - Don't remind me, kirtzee! Gotta get back in first grade mod!
Alta Rose - I meant mode.
Jody - so, does anyone teach vocab beforehand--since that always seems to be what "they" want--lol???? just curious...
emma - Yes, unz, it's great for teaching kids strategies for figuring out unknown words. It's one of my favorite act. in WWW.
naneb - Okay, I did not understand what you were asking. While they are reading they note any words that caused problems and we go over them together and discuss them whole group, I have only about 10 kids at a time so this is not a problem
kerry - with background knowledge, vocabulary, and strategies, what does your 3 day plan look like with the on-grade reading? what do you do on day 1, day 2, etc.
lynn - I play vocab basketball to offer an incentive to study and learn the words
Alta Rose - I do sometimes, jody. With rivet.
brad - explain that, Lynn.
unz - ya lynn, explain that . . .
Jody - my kids got bored w/ rivet too quickly. i only did at the beginning of the year & dropped it.
Alta Rose - Funny, mine loved rivet.
Jody - also, vocab problem--my kids were a wide range---pre primer to probably high elementary or a bit higher.
brad - I've seen no research that suggests Kids learn better by pre-teaching rather than teaching in context, so......I try to stick with research-based methods. Like I said, "they" can't really argue then
naneb - I had a student teacher who did RIVET almost everyday, I never did it again
lynn - Ishow them a definition, they define it for a point, say it in a sentence for another and shoot a basket for two.
Jody - well, alta, i thought they SHOULD have loved it--lol!
brad - Too much of anything is boring.
brad - thanks lynn
emma - Jody, if you go to debfourblocks.com you'll find lots of neat vocab. ideas like "wipeout" etc. Look under her Working W/ Words Category.
Alta Rose - Literally shoot a basket?
Jody - well, i took a class funded by the state or whatever & i did read that blurb--which made me feel that i wasn't doing something i should've been doing.... ha ha!
debbie - I should have said, "developing schema is one purpose for GR for greater comprhension."
lynn - yes, with a nerf ball and trash can
brad - hmmm, Jody, point me to the way.
Jody - so, during after reading you talk about the words in context brad?
Anne-Marie - Brad, the only thing is she is sheduled to do guided reading at a certain time on those days. Our schedules were made up by our special ed coordinator and we aren't supposed to change the schedule... so.. she has to do guided reading during that time. I want to find a creative way to use her so I can still do guided reading the 4B way while she is in my room for that time.
brad - depends on how we read in "during." If they read in small groups or partner, then yes, I'd wait till after. If we read together in ERT or something like that, we'd talk about it as we came to it.
Jody - brad, i couldn't even tell you where i saw that. my blood pressure was elevated throughout most of that class--and it was being taught by our "lit specialist." first reading was that report from national reading panel or whatever.
brad - You could still do grouping, Anne-Marie, just not ABILITY grouping, per se. I would love an extra pair of hands to walk around and monitor during that time.
Jody - well, i'll talk about the words in my little group during 3 ring circus--but just wondering about the rest of the class--and vocab.
brad - Jody, what state?
unz - i would love an extra, competent pair of hands around....
Jody - nevada. the class was called GRIP---governor's reading something or other. they strongly encouraged grouping & i mumbled under my breath the whole class.
brad - Title teacher could always take your strugglers and one model into the group and you could monitor individuals or partners.....
brad - Yeah I took the state thing too this year. Lots of NRP and such.
Jody - our school got some of that grant money for literacy instruction. fortunately (okay, not really), funds were mismanaged so we're going to be short at least 1 specialist so i'm hoping that they will lay off exactly HOW we teach reading.
brad - Just stay informed Jody. There's a lot being misconstrued and implemented and then "blamed" on NRP that is not actually in NRP or is taken out of context
emma - Oh how that education pendulum does swing back and forth...
Alta Rose - That's for sure, emma...
brad - Did you get that green book? LOL, save it.
Jody - yes, thanks brad. i've really tried to improve my literacy instruction this year---at a good time since i was dropping grade levels. then, of course, i'm doing my own thing so i hide in my room... etc.
Alta Rose - brb
emma - The trick is to stay balanced and on one's feet through it all, right Alta Rose?
unz - balanced is the key word!!!
Jody - yes, i think so. hmmmm... might be on the book shelf or in my binder from the class. the class didn't teach me much in the way of new info---except being a 5th & 6th grade teacher, i was totally ignorant about phonemic awareness. so i did learn something
kerry - more vocabulary info - "Instructional activities that allow for a visual display of words and promote students' comparing and contrasting of new words to known words can be a beneficial means for increasing their vocabulary knowledge. Semantic mapping, semantic feature analysis, word mapping and webbing are effective...teaching and reviewing of key concept words prior to reading help students activiate their background knowledge..." IRA
brad - yes, Jody, going down to second last year, I had to pick up and re-train myself on a ton of phonics stuff
unz - great info kerry.
kirtzee - We would miss her grealty..I'm so glad she stayed the kids love her.
Jody - gosh, i picked up the mxm book & i learned a lot there. really, 4B really taught me a lot & the books are well thought out & organized so you can implement right away.
Alta Rose - Are you staying in 2nd or going back to 3rd, brad?
brad - Thanks Kerry. Does it say anything about teaching vocab in context?
naneb - I think i read somewhere that we need to interact with a word 17 times to put it into our vocabulary so that we will speak and write it
brad - 2nd
brad - Jody, the 3rd grade book is much better organized than the 2nd in my opinion
kerry - brad - i'm sure it does, somewhere...
Alta Rose - That makes sense to me, nan.
Jody - i remember you said something about that before. i did talk to a 2nd grade teacher at my school & we compared a bit in passing. she said she didn't have enough activities for instruction. the 3rd grade book was overloaded imo.
Jody - i got excited thinking another teacher at my school was doing 4B, & she said she might next year. well, she's leaving. lol--i'm on my own again.
emma - naneb, that's why I'm going to do a lot of vocab. activities this year. The kids need it. Most of their parents don't talk to them and they have little vocab. background when they come to school. They think reading is just calling words and don't comprehend because of the lack of language experience.
brad - Yeah, emma, I think that's a good idea. I'm going to be more proactive on the vocabulary front too after some reading Nan sent my way
Jody - emma, comp instruction definitely helps my ell kids cause some are whiz at decoding--but not comprehending.
unz - jody, i know what your talking about.
Alta Rose - That's right emma...Sad part is, some of that part of the brain is developed (or not) before they come to school.
Jody - brad, what kind of reading? books?
emma - Hey, brad, could you send that my way, too??
brad - It was an article. I don't have it. Trying to remember who did or where it was though. It was on the net
naneb - Brad, I think it was from Education Week
Jody - brad, well, do you have any suggestions on good prof books for vocab instruction???
naneb - I will find the link, hold on
brad - www.edweek.com
emma - What was the gist of it naneb?
brad - I just received one from attending my state reading thing, ironically, jody
Anne-Marie - Brad, I love the idea but would it last for an hour and a half? There seems to be this need by the tiltle reading teachers to do guided reading the "right way" (meaning Fountas &Pinnell). That comment was made to me last year. Is there a way I could implement FROG during those 2 days she is in my room?
brad - Teaching Vocabulary in All Classrooms
Jody - well, just wondering. sometimes, what you read about vocab instruction takes up sooo much time. then, i wonder how valuable could it be if you're spending reading time on vocab instruction in isolation. kwim??
emma - You're sooo right, Alta Rose. But we have to work with what we get, I suppose
brad - I was thinking FROG too Anne Marie
brad - The thing with FROG is that each group needs a monitor. And you'd only have two people
unz - what does frog stand for?
brad - Jody, 5 words max. Couldn't be too much time. If there's more than that, perhaps the selection's too hard?
Jody - brad, are you saying this is a book you'd recommend, or you just brought it home & tossed it on the shelf w/ your others????
Alta Rose - Not to downplay the importance of vocab...But I think that a program of excellent reading instruction increases vocabulary too, don't you think?
brad - It looked really good what I've seen of it, jody. It's a little more textbook-y so I haven't read it front to back.
emma - Yes, Alta Rose I agree on that, too.
lynn - I agree with Alta Rose
brad - Words Words Words by Janet Allen is free to read on www.stenhouse.com
Jody - well, alta, i would think so. but, i swear i read that some needed to explicitly taught too. so, just wondering effective ways for that or that isn't necessarily true.
fact guy - In Geometry learning vocab is a must
Jody - oh, okay. didn't realize that. have seen that title mentioned.
Alta Rose - Oh, I'm sure you're right, Jody.
emma - That's right, fact guy. If you don't have the vocab. you'll never understand the concepts. Good point!
unz - so brad what is frog?
brad - FROG is an intervention program for primary
unz - i also agree with f.guy
jerry - can i make a quick shameless plug for www.iLoveSchools.com ... it's a free website for teachers to ask for things they need in the classroom ... donors then find you and send you the stuff
emma - Thanks, jerry!!
unz - thanx brad
fact guy - How would you teach vocab of real objects?
lynn - orange crest is by mission grove off the 215 at allesandro
jerry - i'm doing some guerilla marketing tonite and trying to spread the word
unz - thanx jerry, good luck with that
fact guy - Are there any games or activities that might work/
jerry - thanks to you all as well .. .check it out
naneb - I couldn't find it
emma - I think using the word in context, showing the actual object, or a picture would help.
emma - Thanks for trying naneb
Jody - out of curiosity, does anyone do running records very frequently? i know one teacher told me she did them weekly? maybe OT for GR....
Anne-Marie - During FROG, the students in the class are divided into small, heterogeneous groups and these groups recieve daily intensive instruction with one of the FROG teachers or the classroom teacher. Each Frog session includes four 10-12 activities (It's like a shortened version of all four blocks or a "double dose " of all four blocks.
naneb - I do them occasionally but not weekly, how did she find the time?
Jody - i don't know. i just wanted to know why you'd want to do them that frequently & how you'd have the reading material to do it???
naneb - I might do them every week with some children but not everone
Jody - naneb, what do you do w/ the information---help guide them during ssr?
brad - I tried looking for it too, but can't find it
Jody - i seriously feel ignorant because i didn't do them at all last year except for beginning & end of the year assessment.
debbie - Jody, doing a running record guides your teaching points.
naneb - Jody, I teach sped and I would use it to monitor individual student progress
emma - I can't do running records with a classroom of 26 or more kids. I let the Title 1 Reading teacher do that with my strugglers.
emma - I can't do running records with a classroom of 26 or more kids. I let the Title 1 Reading teacher do that with my strugglers.
Jody - debbie, for ssr?
emma - Is there an echo in here? Sorry
julia - I am an substitute teacher.
Alta Rose - Hi Julia.
emma - Guess I made my point!
brad - If you became organized with your rr's they could also determine future words--decoding lessons
Jody - naneb, what do you use if you do the running records so frequently? just any book that's been leveled?
brad - Do most of you stick with your basal for GR?
emma - Organized?? I do try that every year.
julia - Hello Alta Rose:
Jody - no. i did a combination of novels & some nonfiction books & my basal.
naneb - I use the readinga-z leveled books and their running records, but I really don't do them every week
brad - LOL, emma, I was cracking on myself. I always mean to organize that so I can be more systematic about it
Alta Rose - I used it somewhat. I also ordered lots of books for GR from our Instructional Media Center.
Jody - gosh, i don't think i'm ready to be too creative w/ my word block yet. my goals are to fine tune GR & get a writing workshop up & running & do SSR properly.
Alta Rose - I just subscribed to reading a-z.
brad - enough copies for whole class, Alta?
Alta Rose - Yes, brad.
naneb - I don't have a basal so I use lots of different material, short stories, nonfiction, novels and the reading a-z leveled readers
debbie - Talking about rr is so complex. For K-1, a weekly rr is done. For third, once a qtr., except do more often for below grade level.
Jody - i am also subscribed, but haven't used it yet this year. have to search for password that is buried in unread emails--and i don't have access to email at school so......
julia - I want to substitute in your library
brad - The problem with the multiple copies we have is they aren't "meaty" enough. They're primarily for small-group F and P style. The Rigby's and Wright Group's.
emma - We have sets of books-- children's favorites fiction and nonfiction that we rotate among the teachers. They're from Scholastic. I can't wait to use them this year.
Jody - that's what we have in our library. can't do much but decode w/ them. although, some of the higher levels are a bit more easier to use.
emma - Ours are meaty, brad. They are thought provoking and keep the kids' interests.
brad - Are they specifically made for this, emma? Or are they just regular trade books?
emma - Books like Hill of Fire, Stellaluna, Bigmama's, Orca Song, Dancing With Manatees, Song and Dance Man etc.
brad - Those sound GREAT
Jody - so, do you guys do running records during ssr or try to "find" time in other parts of the day??
brad - How about integration in this block? Are any of you trying that?
brad - I do rr's in SSR.
brad - during a conference
emma - They are part of the Skills Through Literature that you can buy in sets of 10. We bought 3 sets of 14 different books at Grade 2 level. So now we have 30 each of 14 different books.. Think it will make a BIG difference in my GR this year.
Alta Rose - Integration of science and ss, brad?
brad - yes, alta
brad - prolly too expensive for my wallet, emma
Jody - for science, we're supposed to be doing foss.
emma - Our principal paid for them with his Title One Funds, bless his heart
Alta Rose - Here, it's too difficult to do that in Gr. 2. There just aren't the text materials that fit in with science and ss topics. But it's very easy to do that in Gr. 1, which is one of the things I'm looking forward to about going back to Gr. 1. (First science unit is Colours. Lots of reading material for that!)
brad - What's your content at 2 Alta?
Jody - Well, my mom is in town & we were supposed to be going out to dinner much earlier tonight, but then I found this chat. Have to go eat! Everyone was very helpful!! Thanks!!
Alta Rose - Science--Magnets, Hot and Cold Temps, Boats and Buyancy, Liquids, Insects. The specific objectives are very complex.
emma - Well, I've totally enjoyed the chat but I've got to go. Thanks all for your great input
brad - nite jody
naneb - Brad, did I send the article directly to you or to the whole ring?
brad - Alta, you could find literature on that!
brad - someone sent it to me, but then I thought you sent it to one of the boards
naneb - Brad, there is lots of good stuff on EBSCO to use for guided reading, use Searchasaurus, the articles are from children's magazines and they are leveled
Alta Rose - Ie. On magnets?
brad - THANK YOU NAN!!
naneb - I have been printig stuff all summer
Alta Rose - Perhaps some...but whole class copies?
brad - Alta, I read some pretty good stuff to my third graders on magnets.
naneb - some of the articles have questions and lesson ideas
brad - Well, whole class copies, I don't know......you could whole-class anything if you wanted....LOL
Alta Rose - That's the trick...Whole class copies of these texts.
brad - Nan, my heart skipped a beat when it didn't take the password earlier today.
naneb - I whole class anything I want shhhhh!!
brad - LOL, I tried again and it went through, Must've mistyped
naneb - Oh No!!
brad - Me too Nan. I'll keep your secret if you keep mine.
naneb - lol
Alta Rose - I'm looking forward to downloading reading a-z stuff, but I will be in trouble with our photocopy police if I'm not careful.
brad - I want to do 60/40 nonfic to fic this year
naneb - I have articles on basketball, dinosaurs, fossils, football etc
brad - Yeah, Alta. That's really the only time I do a lot of photocopying.
naneb - I am going to do lots of nonfiction too
brad - At all levels, you say?
naneb - yes Brad all levels
brad - yeah, trying to build that vocab up......and just "world experience"......I swear some of mine never leave the city
naneb - they are lexile levels but there is a chart that will tell you the grade level
Alta Rose - I always found books about our science topics to read to the kids, but getting multiple copies for GR was hard.
naneb - me too, I am going to do a vocabulary workbook, Yuck! for homework and review the words as part of the beginning of class
brad - you've made me so excited I'm going to check it out.
naneb - this is one more thing I learned in Birmingham
brad - Well, Alta, I did a lot of ME reading during GR this year, esp. at the beginning.
brad - it's on the page where it asks what sources to search?
brad - so having one copy was okay
naneb - hold on let me look
brad - Or transparencies??? (shhh)
naneb - do you get the Magnolia page?
Alta Rose - Our school-wide focus this year is Multiple Intelligences.
Alta Rose - Our school-wide focus this year is Multiple Intelligences.
brad - yeah
naneb - look on the left side for Searchasaurus
brad - Have to be careful with MI, Alta
brad - ok, thanks
Alta Rose - What do you mean?
brad - Lots of misinterpretations of MI running around
Alta Rose - Sorry...I'll wait til your done.
Alta Rose - Because it's so broad, I suppose?
brad - "singing your math facts" is NOT necessarily musical intelligence. That kind of thing.
Alta Rose - Right.
brad - Do yourself a favor and read Howard Gardner's "The Disciplined Mind" He'll talk about the misuse of it in education and suggest its true use.
Alta Rose - Writing it down...thanks.
brad - ok so I'm going to go searchasaurus
naneb - use primary search, this is children's magazines
Alta Rose - Well, I think I'm going to go. See you guys tomorrow!
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