pat - does anyone do 4 blocks in fourth grade?
naneb - I teach 6th grade LD
Judy - I'm just beginnig the 4 blocks program this year. Any advice?
naneb - what grade, Judy
Judy - I teach third grade.
pat - is ther nayone thre who dos guided reading and basal in the intermediate grade?
pat - i can spell- just not type! sorry
naneb - my advice is to pick a block to start with and add the other blocks one or two at a time
Judy - Which block would be the easiest to start with?
naneb - or you can do like I did last year and just jump right into all of them at once
naneb - probably SSR or Word Block
naneb - what grade do you teach?
rfgtchr - 3rd grade Title I
Judy - Have you worked with 4 blocks before?
rfgtchr - We started 4B last year by implementing Guided Reading and SSR.
rfgtchr - This year we added Working with Words and Writing
Judy - What was your biggest challenge?
rfgtchr - I did Working With Word's Word Wall since I taught 1st grade in 1992
rfgtchr - My biggest challenge is to fit it all in. This year the principal gave us an uninterupted 2 hour literacy block.
Judy - You're lucky! My blocks will be spread out throught the day.
rfgtchr - The Working With Words Block is the easiest to implement.
rfgtchr - That makes it difficult! I sympathise with you. Last year our 5th Grade was chopped up.
Judy - Has the program made a difference in your test scores?
rfgtchr - If you are interested in implementing the Working With Words Block, get the book Month by Month Phonics for your grade level. Did you say it was 3rd grade?
naneb - Hi, I'm back my daughter called
Judy - I have already bought all of the books that support the third grade program and have read them.
Judy - Working With Words sounds like fun.
naneb - my blocks are in two different class periods but it still works
rfgtchr - Too early to tell. My students were very low last year. They made a lot of progress, so it must work. It will take time. Since we are doing it schoolwide, the students will have experience in it this year.
Judy - I'm the only teacher in my school who will be using the program - sort of a guinea pig
naneb - Working with Words is fun and the kids really learn a lot
rfgtchr - I had a workshop today in Working With Words. There are a lot of great tips in the Month by Month Phonics book and the Four Blocks book. Also try reading Cheryl Sigmons columns.
rfgtchr - Last year one of my teammates decided to jump in and do all four blocks. She loved it. Do you live in NC?
rfgtchr - Last year one of my teammates decided to jump in and do all four blocks. She loved it. Do you live in NC?
Judy - I live in Georgia and teach for Cobb County
rfgtchr - That is near Atlanta right?
Judy - 30 miles north of Atlanta
naneb - I did all 4 blocks last year and now I am glad, I know what I'm doing this year
Judy - I took a one day workshop and the program really made sense to me. It ties everything together.
naneb - I have a webpage with lots of resources for 4 blocks
Judy - What is your WEB page?
naneb - http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/gipsy/41/
naneb - Cheryl's articles are good too plus she has a good webpage, The best site is Deb's
naneb - http://www.debfourblocks.com/
naneb - She has lots of lessons for all of the blocks
Judy - Thanks
rfgtchr - Thanks for the websites!!!!
naneb - your welcome
Judy - I am hoping the program meets the needs of high achieving kids. My school is made up of mainly above average students.
naneb - it is multilevel and will meet the needs of all of the kids, That is the beauty of 4 blocks
Judy - Have you had a lot of in-service training? I'm hoping to go to a third grade convention in Atlanta in Dec.. Several of the speakers will talk about 4 blocks.
rfgtchr - I think that it should meet the needs of all your students. You might try looking at the Month by Month Phonics for the Upper Grades. There is something called the Nifty Fifty that they might be ready for if they are above grade level. I didn't get to see it in that workshop because it was for the 4th and 5th grade teachers.
naneb - I am the only one at my school doing 4 blocks. I am suppose to go to a workshop this fall
naneb - There is also the Prefix and Suffix book that you might be able to use
naneb - I do the Nifty Fifty words
Judy - I remember reading about the Nifty Fifty and will check it out. Fortunately my principal is very willing to support the program.
rfgtchr - I live near Winston-Salem, where Wake Forest University and Pat Cunninham/Dottie Heath are located. We have been using the ideas since at least 92 but the trend changed with different superintents. Now we are back with Pat Cunningham.
naneb - Judy, I have the words already to be printed, the prefixes are in red, root words in black and suffixes in blue, they are on the webpage
Judy - Great
naneb - They might be on this website instead of the other
naneb - http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/lig/n/a/naneb/
naneb - did you notice a difference from when you did 4 blocks and when you changed
rfgtchr - We used Word Wall and Making Words and implementing it in our writing (part of the Working with Words Block but it wasn't called that). The other three Blocks are new as a program (we started last year). I had some of the books two years ago and was implementing parts of it.
rfgtchr - My students in 1st gr (nine years ago) loved WW and used it to help them write. I feel positive about the program. The only problem I am having is in my idea of guided reading is along the lines of Gay Su Pinnell and Irene Fountas. But I think that this will work.
Judy - My school has been following Fountas & Pinnell and I was frustrated with the different guided reading groups.
rfgtchr - As a Title I teacher I can manage it. As a classroom teacher, I think it would take more management.
Judy - I like the fact that 4 blocks teaches a strategy to the whole class and then the kids are in smaller groups for the reading part. I am going to have to address my above level readers through SSR
naneb - I like 4 blocks guided reading, in my LD class I have lots of different ability levels but we all do reading and just get different amounts of support, sometimes we do book clubs and each group is reading a different book and they may be different levels but it is for the same purpose
naneb - Have you read Mosaic of Thought and Strategies That Work?
bzmom3 - So, where does someone who is new to all of this start?
rfgtchr - We were told today in the workshop that you could pull small groups during SSR time. I don't know about that if all students are suppose to do all 4B
Judy - I loved Mosaic of Thought!
bzmom3 - I teach 4th grade and have average to highly above average
rfgtchr - I love Strategies that Work. I haven't read Mosaic yet.
naneb - go to www.stenhouse.com and read Reading With Meaning online, It will show you how to teach the strategies from Mosaic of Thought by using a readers workshop
Data Queen - I've been lurking. This is the area of 4 Blocks I have had trouble understanding: guided reading. Is it possible to be successful doing the other 3 blocks and using Fountas and Pinnell type guided reading?
naneb - what do you not like about 4 blocks guided reading?
rfgtchr - I would love to do that Data Queen. I guess it depends on how much you have to follow the program. Cheryl Sigmon says no. My principal bought us Pinnell and Fountas material and we use their Reading Levels in our book room.
naneb - you have to remember that you are teaching comprehension during this block, students read during SSR but guided reading is for direct instruction of comprehension strategies
naneb - you might not read all of a selection during guided reading, you are teaching a strategy and the students get the support they need to read the text to practice the strategy
naneb - It was hard for me to really get this part of it at first, but it really does work
Ali_PA/3 - I"m glad you are still here!
Data Queen - Well, I can't say I don't like it since I don't know much about it. What I do know I picked up just by reading posts on the chatboard. My district has been using guided reading based on F&P since I started with them 7 years ago, so it is ingrained in my brain, I guess. I like it though, and I don't find it hard to manage, so I'm not sure I want to give it up. To me, guided reading is also for strategy instruction in how to read, not just comprehension. So I would have a hard time separating that out.
rfgtchr - My problem with the guided reading is that if you were really to reach the needs of the students at their level, you would individualize the instruction more in small guided reading groups. You would choose the strategy and but students in the group that needed help on that strategy. Ideally then the groups would change based on the individual needs.
naneb - do you mean decoding, this is done during the word block
rfgtchr - However, I think the management of that could be overwhelming without the training and support.
Data Queen - rfgtchr, that's what I'm used to.
naneb - do your groups in F&P really change or do they stay pretty much the same all of the time
naneb - in 4 blocks guided reading you can still meet with a small group but it will not always be the same students
Data Queen - I know that 4B addresses decoding in the word block. I love certain aspects of 4b and want to incorporate them. I know there are people who say that unless it is pure 4B you won't be successful. I'm not sure I buy that. I think good teaching incorporates a lot of the 4B strategies and you have to be flexible to meet all kids needs. I just cringe when I hear that there's only one way to do things.
rfgtchr - Data Queen, I guess my problem is like yours, I have been reading Atwell, Calkins, and others since 1995. In 1996, I spent the summer in the Writing Project and that just furthered my interest.
Data Queen - My groups really do change--every 3 weeks, based on need. Maybe the problem is with teachers who run their guided groups like the old tracking system of buzzards and robins
naneb - how do you decide who is in which group
naneb - I am just curious
Ali_PA/3 - I think I've taught long enough that I've tried small groups/ skill groups, ability groups, individualized plans, centers, and now Guided Reading the 4 Blocks way. And I can say with confidence and by my reading scores, that I was most effective as a reading teacher, when I was actually TEACHING HOW to read with the whole group. Otherwise, you create busy work to keep the others quiet. 45 minutes with me is more effective than 15-20 in a small group. I use the lower kids to help me decide what types of mini lessons I should be addressing.
rfgtchr - I agree. I have been doing some of the 4B things since 1992. I love the Writing Block, it fits right in writing workshop. I have done SSR in some form since student teaching.
naneb - I agree completely Ali, I know my LD students made more progress last year then they ever have
rfgtchr - I would love to see you in action!!!
naneb - I did lots of centers and seat work and folders but the whole group instruction is the best
Judy - Do you have trouble pairing your students for partner reading?
rfgtchr - I think the management of Pinnell and Fountas can be daunting and overwhelming.
Ali_PA/3 - exactly nan! It was amazing... some went from needing an aid at the beginning, to becoming independent with grade level work!!
Data Queen - Well, it depends. When students are learning HOW to read, my objective is often based on the most recent running record and what I see student strengths and next steps are (i.e. cross checking meaning with visual) and I use a text at their instructional level to teach that to a small group of students with similar needs. Sometimes, it might be a group of kids working on fluency, or having trouble with understanding of a certain genre, or using text structures to help with comprehension, etc. I am always assessing: mostly observations
naneb - The kids I had last year would tell me they would rather quit school then read a book, by Christmas they were fighting to share their books
naneb - I did more three ring circus, some read with me, some read with a partner and some read independently
Data Queen - I agree. The management can be very overwhelming. But I have to say I have seen the same kind of progress that you all talk about and it really is exciting
Ali_PA/3 - One special needs girl wouldn't talk in class and was terrified to be chosen to read aloud. By March, her confidence had grown that she was volunteering to read !!
naneb - I did lots of book club groups and I was amazed at how they could discuss books and prove their point with evidence from the story
rfgtchr - Gotta go!!!! Schoo tomorrow! Opening convecatation with the super. FUN!!!!!
naneb - I think when we give kids more responsibility for their own learning it pays off
Ali_PA/3 - Right now I am reading "Reading with Meaning" and Mosaics of Thought so I can strengthen my Guided Reading lessons.
naneb - we have Harry Wong coming for our first day back
Ali_PA/3 - Wow nan! Where do you teach?
naneb - I love both of those books, aren't Debbie Millers kids amazing?
naneb - Mississippi
naneb - I think all of the neighboring districts went together to pay for him, It is at the colisseum
Ali_PA/3 - Yes... here's a question though... I found it unusual that her students called her by her first name. Do any of you have the children address you by your first name???
Carrie - I am excited about putting RWM to use in my class.
naneb - I know, I was surprised at that too
Data Queen - Oh, I have to go too. Babes to get in bed! I enjoyed talking to you guys. I like that we can differ in opinions and still discuss things. I really do believe there is more than one way to skin a cat. There are tons of very happy 4B teachers so there has to be something to it. I was just curious if you had heard of anyone successful in integrating some 4B with Fountas and Pinnell
Ali_PA/3 - Night Data
rfgtchr - You can tell summer is over and I had a long day today. My spelling is terrible!!!!! Bye!
naneb - I think I am going to ease into a Reader's Workshop, we are having a class for Accelerated Reading so I think I will use that class for reader's workshop and keep reading for guided reading instruction
Data Queen - I'm reading RWM, STW and MOT now too. I've had the name discussion with a teacher friend of mine. When I first started, I wanted to have kids call me by my first name, but caved to peer pressure
Data Queen - Night all
naneb - I agree Data,
Judy - Thanks for all of your input. Have a great school year! Bye
Ali_PA/3 - I can't think of any teacher in my district that is on a first name basis with their students.. In fact, we make it a point not to call each other by our first names in front of the students. We address each other formally in front of the kids. How about the rest of you?
Carrie - No first names here.
cathy - I also have been reading STW and MOT. I also took a class from Steve Peha. Has anyone heard of him. He comes out of Seattle.
Ali_PA/3 - Haven't heard of Steve Peha
Carrie - Never heard of him. Any ideas about implementing the 'our promise' from RWM?
naneb - We address each other formally too. My principal is big on being professional
Ali_PA/3 - Well, I'm going to visit the other room. Night
naneb - what grade do all of you teach
Carrie - I teach 2nd
naneb - I teach 6th LD
Carrie - You must be a special person- 6th is not my idea of fun! I'll stick to primary!
cathy - His message seems to be right along the MOT and STW. He stresses the reading helps the writer to be a better writer and the writing improves the reader. I teach 5th grade in Idaho and we address each other formally, too.
naneb - I teach at a middle school, so 6th graders are the babies, they are lots better than 7th graders
Carrie - I am excited about putting RWM to use in my class! Have either of you used it in your classes before?
cathy - Where are all of you from?
Carrie - I'm from Arkansas.
naneb - not yet, I am starting the year with a schema study, I have my first two weeks planned
naneb - Mississippi
naneb - My first read aloud is going to be "The Relatives Came"
Carrie - I am wondering how the kids will react to this 'new' way of teaching.
cathy - Is RWM on the same line as STW or is is different? and in what way?
Carrie - I'm starting with First Day Jitters. I love that book!
naneb - I did a lot of strategy instruction last year and tried readers workshop near the end of the year, my students really liked it
naneb - I am reading that one too!
Carrie - They are similar-- STW is more upper level
naneb - It is an account of a year in a first grade classroom teaching the MOT strategies
Carrie - My district gave all the K-2 teachers the RWM book. I think we are going in the right direction. Now for the teachers to buy into it!
naneb - It is scary to release responsibility to the students but they will rise to the opportunity
naneb - I had a hard time giving grades, I had to really plan for it, we are required to have at least two grades per week
Carrie - Oops! Now I'm in here 2X's! Gotta tuck in the kids. Trying to get on a decent schedule.
cathy - I hope you are right, nan. I have seen too many students pretending to read and learning games of getting out of reading.
naneb - I had a whole class of them last year, I just found books they would read and went from there
cathy - I am also worried about the grading and do not feel real strong in this area.
naneb - I would grade a graphic organizer and almost always had some type of written response every week, summary of the story or a character analysis etc
cathy - I had several kids pick a book and two days later wanting to change it. What do you do to get them to stick with it?
naneb - I let them choose 2 or three books and put them in a bag, they had to have the same books when we conferenced and be able to tell me about at least one of them,I convinced them that I had read all of the books and that they couldn't fool me
naneb - I joined reading a-z and let them read those books for SSR. They are short and less intimidating, my boys loved the nonfiction
cathy - I like your idea of several books. What are a-z books?
naneb - http://www.readinga-z.com you can download books and print them out, they have tons of leveled readers, It costs to join
naneb - there are some sample books to print, I joined last year and it was $29.95 for a year
naneb - I guess I better get to bed, I am going to school to work on my room tomorrow
naneb - good night
cathy - I will try it out. Thanks. Good night.
Chatboards Lesson Plans K12 Projects Teacher Blogs Mailrings Classified Ads Teacher Jobs Live Chat Live Meetings Articles Harry Wong Printables
Other Chatboards in this Category...
The Language Arts Chatboards are for educators who teach Language Arts or have an interest in the English curriculum.
Reading/Writing HS English Books/Literature Book Talk
Remedial Reading Accelerated Reader 6 Traits Writing ESL/EFL
4 Blocks Literacy Building Blocks (K) Library/Media Specialist Reading First
