Maggie - Have you all been doing four block for a while?
deb - I have one NON english speaking child (illegal from Mexico, 4 weeks ago) I have never had a NO english child before. I have lots of migrants, but never NO english. I am panicking.
deb - Yes I have been doing 4 blocks for 3 years and training teachers in four blocks for over a year
Lisa/1/NC - Deb, you'll see that 4Blocks will work wonders with that child
Maggie - This is my first year and I am only trying part of it because of scheduling.
Lisa/1/NC - my ELL kids worked so hard over the two years I had them -- they did some amazing things -- you can read about in the book ;-)
Lisa/1/NC - just pair him/her with someone -- does someone speak Spanish to help out?
Maggie - Can I ask for some help with Working with Words?
deb - My concern is NO one speaks any Spanish in the room and this child is mentally impaired so she understands NOTHING. I wish I had another spansih speaking child in the room
deb - maggie, what are you worried about or working on?
Lisa/1/NC - that's rough Deb
Maggie - Do you try to follow the same format. Ex. Mon.-chant words, Tues.-cheer Wed. Guess The Cov. Word. etc?
Lisa/1/NC - I guess, kind of...Monday is introducing the new words -- longer cheers though
Lisa/1/NC - then I kind of mix it up -- so the kids don't begin to dislike one of the activities like they did last year
deb - I schedule GTCW (Guess The Covered Word) on Tuesdays, Making Words on Wednesday, Rounding Up Rhymes on Thursday. Friday varies. Monday is introducing new words
Dee Dee - Are most of you first and second grade teachers? I'm doing 4 blocks for first time in 3rd grade.
deb - I find my students like the predictable pattern of what we are doing. But I have the kind of kids who need prediction
NCahoot2 - just got home from seeing Dottie Hall speak on 4 blocks...great conference
cheri - Do you do anything else with Making Words during the week?
Lisa/1/NC - I've started doing a Word Wall Test on Fridays -- have to give the dreaded spelling test in my new district -- I use Joe Fuhrman's Word Wall test sheet
Maggie - That was what I was wondering about. GTCW didn't work as easily using my new weekly word wall words. Is that what I should be using?
deb - Dee dee - I teach second. I teach conferences though. What questions do you have for third. We might be able to help
Lisa/1/NC - NCahoot -- where did you see Dottie?
Maggie - I did the interviews in Sept. Big hit and I liked what they did.
deb - cheri on Wednesday we make the words, sort the words, read some transfer words and then write some transfer words
NCahoot2 - Ontario California
Lisa/1/NC - Maggie, I would do GTCW with your students' names and interests
Maggie - I plan to do Making Words starting in Nov.. Do you try to big words based on WW words or is it a separate lesson?
deb - I use GTCW linked to my guided reading lessons NOT the word wall words. But since I am teaching about words it is scheduled during the words block
Lisa/1/NC - so you just got back NCahoot? Dottie has a great energy about her -- but so do Pat and Cheryl
deb - I have 10 interviews done and 14 to go. We started two weeks ago.
Maggie - I didn't think of that. I will give it a try,Lisa.
deb - I didn't start at the beginning of the year because I teach second and didn't have to do them the last two years. This group really needed them
Lisa/1/NC - Maggie, I'd chose a word that is part of a unit study or something
deb - I take guided reading book sentences and make those into GTCW sentences
NCahoot2 - I really enjoyed the conference...she is a very good speaker
deb - I choose my making words right from the mXm phonics book for second grade
Maggie - I did a lot of building words last year but was not didligent in sorting the words afterwards. I can see how much more effective that would be.
deb - Did she happen to mention Jamarcio during SSR?
NCahoot2 - well yes she did now that I think of it
deb - NCahoot2 -- I meant the Jamarcio question for you:)
Lisa/1/NC - sometimes I chose words from the Making Words book or the MxM book for 1st grade -- and sometimes I use unit words
deb - maggie, don't forget the transfer words for reading and writing too. I found that the kids really cement their learning there
Dee Dee - What's Jamarcio?
Maggie - Do you use the great Anagram site for building your words lists?
Lisa/1/NC - Deb -- Dottie spoke of Jamarcio during the 4Blocks conference in Clemmons in August
deb - :) he is MY student. It was fun having her in my classroom that day
NCahoot2 - i think she showed his picture even
deb - COOL. I wondered. She mentioned she was going to -- I just wondered if he was yet
deb - :) he's adorable.
deb - if SHE was yet I mean
Maggie - Deb, can you explain transfer words for reading and writing?
Lisa/1/NC - well Deb...I can't wait for Dottie and Pat to spend time in my classroom -- she'll love some of my characters ;-)
deb - Lisa, Dottie spent a day in Michigan with me after spending the night at my mom's house. We have dogs, kids and no extra rooms, my mom and dad have three empty bedrooms
Lisa/1/NC - yeah I know...Dottie enjoyed your classroom immensely
deb - maggie, if the rhyming patterns in the making word "word" included the pattern "ay" I have them sort for ay. Then I show them words that CAN"T be made with the letters we have. The kids have to read these words prewritten on index cards. I hold a word up like "pat"
deb - read the word DON"T call it out
deb - then I also have the kids number their paper to five and read off some words that they can spell/write using some of the words from the sorts we did with making words
Maggie - thanks, deb. Did your students do 4Blocks in grade 1 also?
deb - Lisa, it was really fun to share my kids with her
deb - maggie, 10 of my kids came from a four blocks classroom, 14 didn't
Maggie - you guys are so lucky! how do you get to have them spend time in your classrooms?
deb - This year one first grade is REALLY doing four blocks and two are dabbling. Second grade -- two are and one is NOT
Lisa/1/NC - Maggie -- I live in Winston-Salem -- where Pat and Dottie are ;-)
Maggie - what is the biggest difference in the 10 and 14?
deb - Maggie, Dottie's time was definitely a huge GIFT that she gave me. Dottie and Pat refered to me in the new guided reading book as "Deb Webb" in the second grade introduction chapter. Also before they endorsed me to train they wanted to see it in action
Lisa/1/NC - Both Pat and Dottie are doing 4Blocks workshops for my school this year -- can you believe that the city where 4Blocks began that not more schools are doing it?
deb - My 10 know the strategies, how to partner read, what GTCW is, how to use the word wall, etc
NCahoot2 - no one in my school even knows what 4 blocks is :( well besides me that is
deb - Lisa, I can hardly believe it. I don't get how the town ignores this info!!!
Maggie - i'll have to look for you in the book!
cathie/NC/2 - hello everyone, I am new to guided reading and need advice on how to get started. we have books leveled.
deb - It took THREE years for my school to start listening. NOW they finally are
Lisa/1/NC - but it's the case with anything important -- you don't appreciate what you have until it has gone elsewhere and then returned
deb - :) page 9-10 in the guided reading the four blocks was
Sauni - Cathie have you read the Guided Reading Book for 4 blocks?
Maggie - how do you run your partner reading?
deb - you have to be at least 45 minutes away to be an expert!
cheri - NCahoot,same in my school and they aren't too interested for the most part. deb, what are the effects on kids who are promoted to a class that doesn't do 4blocks?
Lisa/1/NC - my new school is excited to get started with 4Blocks -- but yet again, I am the lone ranger
cathie/NC/2 - who was from Winston? I am in Iredell-statesville co.
NCahoot2 - mostly right now they are just crazed over the SAT9 test
deb - the kids complain that they miss me and want to really read and write instead of doing workbook pages. however the teachers say they have really good skills
cathie/NC/2 - Sauni, I have ordered Pinnell's guided reading
Maggie - my school is trying and doing a lot of discussing. it's that time commitment that is tough to sell.
Lisa/1/NC - you're right Deb -- but my principal was trained by Pat and Dottie after they began the program in Clemmons -- my principal LOVES 4Blocks and wants us all to do it -- she has my vote!
deb - I KEEP reminding the teachers here in Michigan that kids that can READ can PASS the state tests
cheri - Doesn't that make you want to cry!
Lisa/1/NC - Hey Cathie -- I'm from Winston -- we've talked in here before
deb - yes, I am really trying to get the third grades to do four blocks. I have two teachers doing it and one NOT. One fourth grade teacher is trying it too. The teachers are really excited about it
cathie/NC/2 - yes, Lisa, I believe we have. My sister in law is at Clemmons Elem.
Dee Dee - You guys can send your kids to Texas for third grade. My entire district is committed to 4-Blocks and training like crazy.
deb - partner reading. There is a whole chapter in the guided reading the four blocks way book. I have the kids sit shoulder by shoulder, share books, I always give them something to do while reading (IE say something after each two page spread about what you just read)
deb - Clemmons Elem would be an intimidating place to work I think!!!!!
Lisa/1/NC - Cathie -- you told me but refresh my memory -- is she the CC?
deb - I would panic for every lesson!
deb - CC is what
Maggie - Does anyone here teach first grade?
Lisa/1/NC - I teach 1st Maggie
Sauni - 4th - 6th
cathie/NC/2 - media center director
NCahoot2 - first here too
deb - dee dee - we do send our kids to Texas (20% migrant) ha ha ha ha
Lisa/1/NC - Curriculum Coordinator
deb - lisa, duh, I get it!!!!!!
deb - ours is retiring. I am asking to sit in on the interviews
Dee Dee - Deb, I'm enjoying 4 Blocks but are there any resources for me. I have MxM book for third but all other 4-blocks books seem more geared to 1st and 2nd.
cathie/NC/2 - does anyone use the DRA's for assessing?
deb - I really like curriculum work
Lisa/1/NC - I just got a kid from Clemmons a couple of weeks ago -- she recognized what we were doing -- didn't think we were completely nuts when we cheered our WW words like my other new ones did
deb - Guided Reading the Four BLocks way is really good for third too. Do you have that yet? Also there is a GTCW book for third grade
Maggie - Have you starting making words, lisa?
deb - We have what's called the MLPP which is the Michigan version of An Observation Survey by Marie Clay
dotty - hi all! just came back from a 4blocks training...it was great!
cheri - Deb,are you the person who did all the mini lessons for writing that are posted on readinglady.com?
deb - yup
Lisa - I have done it once Maggie -- last week -- but it was after the first term of school
Dee Dee - thanks again, deb. Do you guys sing your WW words too? 6-letter words to tune of "Happy Birthday" etc.?
deb - I also was the deb for the lessons on teachers.net
dotty - I'm 2nd grade
deb - dee dee - yes I sing the especially hard words. I also clap in patterns BE CA USE
Lisa - I don't sing them -- just cheer them -- my class gets roudy enough during the WWW block
cheri - Wow! They are great. Thanks, you made my work easier and lighter. this is my first year in 2nd. I am a veteran teacher, but not in public schools. What a lot of work. thanks for helping.
deb - Check the list for the variety of chants and cheers on teachers.net and on www.readinglady.com for more songs and chants
deb - :) you are welcome cheri. I am glad to know they helped
cathie/NC/2 - dotty, I am second grade too
deb - we sang GET to jingle bells. Now all I have to do is HUM and they spell it right
dotty - cathie....do you use 4 blocks?
Lisa - Joe Fuhrman has a ton of cheers and other 4Blocks stuff on his site -- http://www.fourblocks.nethop.com
cathie/NC/2 - do any of you second grade teachers find that your students can read every word but can not always comprehend what they have read?
cheri - My kids get very excited during WWW also. We did opera the other day. they loved it. And are they learning these words. It's great!
cathie/NC/2 - not 100% dotty
dotty - cathie...me..me ..me..no comprehension at all!
dotty - I teach alot of ELD kids though
deb - First day of school I had 6 kids who could read LESS then 10 of the 120 words. Now they know ALL the words that are up on the wall
cathie/NC/2 - I have difficulty giving them a reading level for that problem? any ideas?
NCahoot2 - my word wall words come from my school's 100 first grade sight words
cheri - cathie, I have some readers like that. Including myself who was brought up on choral reading ONLY.
deb - cathie, that's why the comprehension block, the guided reading block is SOOOOOOOOOOO good.
deb - cathie, we don't necessarily level the kids. The focus of guided reading is comprehension.
dotty - I have a ? for writing...dottie says to have them circle the words they think they don't know how to spell...so do we then correct it during edit?
NCahoot2 - the cool thing is...I started testing my kids yesterday and so far the lowest score is around 34 words...which is a huge improvement from last year when i wasn't doing 4 blocks
cathie/NC/2 - we have to level ours for report cards, title I and for records, we give the DRA for this. but it is vague on comprehension levels.
deb - dotty, that is one way to solve the spelling problem. I don't have my kids do that since they misspell so many words and the kids have a HUGE number of circles. Instead I just stress having the kids record the sounds they hear. Both ways are right. It depends on how you handle it. I find the kids don't need to circle.
dotty - sorry..what is DRA??
Lisa - what grade Dotty? I don't do that with my 1st graders - but we won't really start editing until after Christmas
dotty - deb thanks..I just try to have them sound out as best as they can.
cheri - dotty, I help them spell it during edit. They are responsible for getting the beginning and ending sound and I help them with the rest. We use Quickwords that all their unknowns go in.
dotty - Lisa..2nd grade
NCahoot2 - dotty...where do you teach?
deb - leveling books, maybe you could ask them comprehension questions and they must have 90% right to be considered that level?
dotty - Lisa..I'm editing now..everything they want me to edit, that is.
cathie/NC/2 - reading assessment tests using ready made books that are leveled and doing running records on them
dotty - NCahoot....in California
Maggie - I don't have them circle but I do have them make the "magic line" if they can't think of the letter. What's your opinion of that?
Dee Dee - does anyone have trouble getting to everyone for writing confereces? In third grade, they write a lot and we publish in our class newlsetter. They are excited but conferecing takes longer.
kita - how do you level your children to guided reading how do you know what grouping to put them in
NCahoot2 - you didn't just come back from dottie hall's conference in ontario by any chance?
deb - the circle idea is so that the kids don't sit there asking and asking and asking about how to spell a word and won't move on. That's where this idea came from by the way
Lisa - Dotty -- I tell my kids to stretch out the words and write the sounds they hear -- I use my hands a lot -- so now my kids do the same when they are stretching out words -- it's cute to see their hands move like rubber bands -- I know exactly what they are doing
REI - Dotty...my second graders circle the words they think are misspelled.
dotty - Kita..I went to 4 blks conference todya..they say mix abilities so they all feel successful!
dotty - NC..yep I did..you were there too?
deb - maggie, that sounds fine.
cathie/NC/2 - kita, we do running records for levels and retelling
NCahoot2 - i was...it was great huh?
deb - I also have the kids use the phonic phones to hear the sounds in words. That helps a ton
dotty - NC...yep..long..but great..I started 4 blks last year...so it was great to know I was doing something right!
dotty - Is this a 4blks site every Friday nite at 8?
kita - I am having a hard time getting kids to pick books on their level for SSR
cheri - deb, I still have kids who sit and won't move on if they're stuck on spelling. I know it's early-6 weeks into the year. Any suggestions?
deb - in third, ideally you get to the kids weekly but realistically it may be every other week.
NCahoot2 - this is the first year i have done it and like you i have a lot of ELL kids....but this seems to help them learn a lot quicker
deb - 1st and third fridays
dotty - NC..what district are you in?
NCahoot2 - moreno valley...and you?
Ginn - Is anyone here going to the 4Blocks Conference in St. Louis ?
dotty - Ontarion Montclair..you came far then!
Lisa - Kita -- at the beginning, I may show them a book that I think they might like -- and tell them that the box has more of the same type of books like that one -- we also do the 5 finger rule
dotty - oops..I meant Ontario Montclair
deb - cheri, if you spell for them EVEN ONCE, they get REAL used to the idea that you will spell for them. I don't spell for them. I talk a lot about how to figure out words and WILL NOT spell for them.
Dee Dee - thanks, deb. I do have my kids circle words they don't know how to spell. have any of you heard of Quick Word booklets. They're great for having kids check their own spelling- like expanded portable word walls.
NCahoot2 - this is probably the only conference i will see this year so i always am really picky as to what i go see....:)
dotty - DeeDee..we have district dictionairies
REI - Ginn...on December 6th?
deb - kita, also I read the really low books during my read aloud time then have them read them
Lisa - NC -- I've done 4Blocks with ELL kids the last two years -- saw some incredible growth over the two years I had them
dotty - Favor..could someone who has good teacher web sites send me some??
cheri - deb1, you don't spell for htem ever? So how do they get the word correct? Yes, Dee Dee, we use Quick Words.
Ginn - Yes, I am going with a group of 2nd grade teachers from Arkansas. We were wanting to visit a four blocks school while we were there.
deb - I read part of a chapter book, part of a theme book, and one or two REALLY low reading level book
dotty - I'm a 2nd year teacher and am still learning
NCahoot2 - actually i have a bilingual class ....some of that is hard for me
Lisa - how about mine Dotty? http://www.expage.com/woodshop -- tons of literacy stuff
deb - cheri, NEVER during the actual writing time. Yes I help during writing editing, and I'll say things like that word rhymes with " " and I'll say the sounds really stretched out. BUT I am NOT their dictionary during writing time.
dotty - Lisa..any others...can you possibly email me ..dottymj@mindspring.com
Lisa - sure Dotty
deb - dotty, if you need to get a hold of me d-smith@cybersol.com
cheri - deb, okay, that's when I help also. What do you do with kids who will not move on if s/he is stuck on spelling? I have a boy who will not write if he's stuck. I have run out of ideas. He's not a strong writer and would rather do anyhting else.
dotty - ok..deb1..thknks..for ideas I might turn to you!
Lisa - and I am at nakou_nc@hotmail.com
Ginn - Does anyone work in the St. Louis area?
deb - I had a child like that. I refused to spell. If he wasn't working at all, I kept him in at recess and let him pout then. I will email my Deontrae story to the ring. It totally addresses this. If I forget, ask for it.
deb - Basically, he waited me out and I waited him out. I won. It took a month though. At the end of the year he was writing five sentences.
cheri - Thanks,deb. that might work for him. He cries. Must work somewhere in his life, but not with me.
REI - Ginn...you should be getting it now.
deb - He started not able to spell his name in September
deb - Crying slamming around, throwing his pencils, etc. What a joy to have in class
cheri - Mine isn't that severe. Although, now that you mention it, he did some of that at the beginning of the year. How soon I forget. So I guess he has nade progress. He, of course, writes the list story. I like, I like, etc.
deb - I do have a child this year who has an IQ of 58. He is EMI and scribbles and can't read ANYTHING. He is at the dictation stage. I have him dictate a sentence which is REALLY difficult for him. He copies it. We are teaching him to cut it up for cut up sentences. Right now he doesn't even know what makes a word.........
deb - I like.....lists..... I have a great mini lesson for that
deb - I like my dad. Then YOU write down five words as you ask him questions. Then TELL him he has to use each word in a sentence to add on to his story. It works
Lisa - I have an EMH kid in my room right now too -- he draws a lot or his volunteer will help him spell letter by letter -- today he read a sentence from his Guided Reading book -- that was a big deal!
cheri - I am truly blessed with only 12 kids and they are bright. Nothing severely deficient academically.
deb - lisa, isn't the small progress we see sometimes incredible joy!
deb - cheri -- I have 24, 9 of whom are sped
Lisa - yeah Deb -- after he read it to me, I stopped the class to listen to him read it -- they all clapped for him -- they knew that it was big
deb - that's exactly what I would have done too. The kids really respond well to the variety of ranges
cheri - Oh, my goodness. If I had that many kids this year, I'm not sure I could survive. It is so difficult trying to stay caught up with everyhting. Being ahead is not part of my life right now! We are also implementing Everyday Math for the first time this year.
Dee Dee - Oops! I was trying to say I'm encouraged by all your comments, deb and everyone. I am enjoying 4 blocks. It's harder for the other pilot teacher on my grade level who always did more worksheets, etc.
Lisa - I have such a range in abilities and even ages -- I have 6-8 year olds in my 1st grade class -- and the kids are all encouraging of each other's progress
cheri - You must be young and full of vitality--no wonder I love your ideas. Take care of you and don't overwhelm yourself.
deb - Well, I think we have to leave four blocks since the next chat is scheduled to start at nine. Have a wonderful four blocks week everybody. Hope to speak with you all soon!!!!!!!
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