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The Teachers.Net resources concerning The 4-Blocks framework are extensive.
No where else will you find this level of support and formation designed to help you successfully bring
The Four Blocks Literacy Model to your classroom.
4-Blocks Literacy ChatBoard
Sifting and Sorting Through the 4-Blocks Literacy Model
susan - Hi ya'll. The topic for tonight is guided reading. Guided reading is a component of the Cunningham 4 block model of Language Arts instruction. The primary focus of the guided reading block is comprehension and fluency. The block is divided into 3 sections:pre-reading, reading, and post-reading.
katie - Susan, Ive been doing poetry on easy reading days like you suggested last time. We all love it!! Any suggestions for the other easy reading day. I don't have very many sets of books since I just moved to second grade.
kathy - Which of the books do you reccommend as the best to get started?
Sonia - What do you do when no one in your building knows how to correctly do the 4 blocks and your district won't pay to send you to the training? Help!!!
susan - Michele, during the prereading I look at building back ground, introducing vocabulary, and setting the stage for the students to read. You might want to start with a graphic organizer like a circle or bubble map. Then introduce the vocabulary that would cause your students difficulty, then give them a "treasure " to look for while they are reading.
Michele - I like the way you call it a "treasure." I think I'm doing well with the building background and vocab. It's coming up with that "treasure" or purpose for reading that I'm having trouble with.
roe/RI - Susan, GR is the toughest block for me to do. In the past years, I have been using Fountas/Pinnell method of guided reading and find it difficult to switch. Any suggestions?
susan - Katie, another source for easy days are nursey rhymes or chart stories. Several of the big educational publishers have pocket chart books available and there not to hard to make.
Sharon/IL - I've been reading the books and I like the concept of 4 Blocks but I feel like I need to see it in action. How can I find our about other schools in my area that are using 4 Blocks or find people that have been trained?
susan - Kathy, I would get Implementing the 4 block method, and the month by month phonics guide for your grade leve.
Sharon/IL - Is it a good idea to jump right into Month by Month Phonics if you didn't start in September?
katie - Thanks! Is it ok to do poetry one day and nursery rhymes another? We have been copying the poetry and keeping it in individual notebooks for each child to use only on Thursday. Should I do that with the other day also?
sarahw/2/TX - Sharon-- except for catching up on a couple of activities we had not yet done, it was very easy to start using my Month by Month when I got it in December
susan - roe/RI, I understand your problem, I've read the Fourntas/Pinnell and it sounds good, but I've done guided reading for 5 years using the 4 block method and have seen great results. I have a friend who is trying to combine the two, but she just got frustrated.
blt - sharon--i started month by month phonics just 3 weeks ago and it's going great
Sharon/IL - I started Month by Month Phonics and have used many of the activities but we have a phonics book and I feel guilty not using it. Do any of you have the same problem. Next year I won't order the phonics books but I feel like I have to use them.
Michele - I'm also interested in how others go about assigning partners and groups for reading. Should the students be matched up with different partners each time?
susan - Sharon/IL go ahead with the month by month the activities are great. Teacher.Net is a great place to try to find someone near you who is using the 4 block model who might be nice and let you come observe or you may find someone who has been video taped who would let you borrow the tape. I've been videoed its not so bad.
kinderkate - I've just been listening in - I have heard about the 4-block method but have not read any of the materials. Where do I start?
sea/2/nc - kinder, there is a 4block chatboard here at t.net! :)
kinderkate - Are there any others who need a quick view of the program or am I the only one?
kinderkate - thanks - sea - and you use it ? Is it a complete literacy program?
sea/2/nc - patricia cunningham also has a net site
Kath - How does the 4-block guided reading segment differ from guided reading that Fountas teaches?
susan - Michele, from what I've read, and tried my partners work better pairing a middle reader with a high reader or a middle reader with a low reader. The rationale behind this is a low paired with a high, the high will be the teacher and the low get a free ride. A middle paired with a low, the middle is going to expect the low to contribute to . High with a middle , middle will want a turn. I try to match most of my students up with different partners or groups to keep it mixed up, but I do have 2 who read with the teacher a lot.they just need the extra support or teacher proximity.
julie - I pair readers the way Susan does. I have three that I have to read with. Personalities make a difference too.
Sharon/IL - I don't think there is only one way to group. Some days I use sticks with the kids names on them. I just pick two to read together. Some days I go around the room. The people in group 1 get to pick any partner they want. The next day the next group gets to pick partners first and so on. My students are really great and get along very well.
kinderkate - This paired reading sounds great. Is this 4-block guided reading?
sea/2/nc - paired reading is one component of a "literacy classroom" kinderkate (correct susan?)
Di/2/NJ - I don't have many multiple copy books; can I do guided reading with my current basal?
sea/2/nc - guided reading (in my room) is done with small groups
NancyD - What about finding materials for the guided reading block? Besides a basal, what else are you all using?
Lynn/1/va - The Teacher's Guide to 4-Blocks and going to a 4 Blocks workshop has really helped me.
Sara/k/Tx - I us the Rigby Kinder Readers in GR.
sarahw/2/TX - Nancy-- I also use our science book for guided reading.
Michele - Sea, ...always with small groups? How do you do it?
Kath - Susan, Are you familiar with the books, "Guided Reading" and "Word Matters'? How is this guided reading component similar or disimilar?
susan - Kinderkate, the 4 blocks are guided reading - comprehension and fluency, word block - word study, self selected reading - using what you learn in guided reading, and writing block.
julie - We use a program called Pegasus. We use trade books for reading. That's why I'm looking to implement the program. I just don't feel like I'm teaching reading.
Sara/k/Tx - also KInder Starters
Doug/Ca - Sara- do you mean the PM readers?
Jamie - I've been trying to implement 4 Blocks in my classroom without any training. The word block is going great because I am using the Month by Month Phonics, but I am really confused about the Guided Reading Block. Anyone willing to explain it to me? 3 days at level and 2 days below level????
Sara/k/Tx - What are the PM readers, Doug?
sea/2/nc - hi michele, it takes a lot of organization
susan - NancyD, I use every thing. Poery, cook books, science and social studies text, mult. copies of trade books when I can get them, story charts, pocket chart stories.
roe/RI - I still need some suggestions on how to do GR with the whole class. I use the Fountas/Pinnell method and find it so worthwhile.No problem with materialssince we have numerous multiple copies that we all share. I am still confused about the 4 blocks guided reading.
Michele - Sea, can you email me more about how you organize it? Please :)
Gina - Nancy, I use Literacy 2000 & Rigby sets. These books can be leveled, which makes it easier to work at the student's level
NancyD - How would you use a pocket chart story during GR?
kinderkate - does 4-block do guided reading whole class?
Sharon/IL - I think the 2 days below level is the hardest for me. I have a basal I use for days 1, 2 and 3. What kinds of things should I be using for days 4 and 5. I don't have enough books for everyone. Perhaps poems is the way to go.
sea/2/nc - michele, lynn just attended a cunningham workshop! lynn, can you share some tidbits???
susan - Kath, who is the author of "guided reading"? There are several books out on the market. I
kinderkate - Guided Reading is by Fountas and Pinnell
Kath - Susan, I'm referring to the one by Pinnell and Fountas
Jamie - I'm hoping to get to the training in Milwaukee this spring, but I have to convince my administrator first. Only one other teacher I work with has ever heard of 4 Blocks and is trying to implement it.
NancyD - How about some ideas on exactly how to teach the comprehension skills during the Guided reading block? And what do we do after the partner or small group reading? What kinds of "follow up" actvities?
susan - Carolyn/OH I would look at the word block first because the month by month guides for grade levels are great
sea/2/nc - i'm not good working in links, but i'll be right back (i hope) with the cunningham link... (kinder :)
TAYLOR - Hi
Di/2/NJ - Does anyone use Accelerated Reader in conjunction w/ 4-Blocks?
kathy - I am trying to use the AR in conjunction with 4blocks
LADDS - I use accelerated reader with 4 blocks
kinderkate - We are looking for a phonics program at our school. Can we do the month by month word block without implementing the other blocks. Of course that wouldn't be the only literacy.
Julie - Susan, after beginning the Word Block, which would you do next?
Sharon/IL - Classrooms That Work by Patricia M. Cunningham, Month By Month Phonics (for your grade level) by Dorothy Hall and Pat Cunningham, The Teacher's Guide to the Four Blocks are three of the four books I have.
Sonia - We do AR during the self selected reading block
susan - Kath, I know the book, difference, 4-block does guided reading whole class same reading material, The other has small groups , each reading different materials
Sharon/IL - Yes, I have been using it during Self Selected Reading too. It works great.
sarahw/2/TX - Sharon--I use it as their self selected reading block. Only way I could fit it in and still teach some skills in guided reading
Jamie - I love the Writing Block. I really see the progress that at least some of my students are making - really applying what I am showing them in our little mini lessons. However, I am having a very difficult time conferencing with enough students each day! Too little time.
kinderkate - thanks sarahw . Guided reading whole group????????? I don't see it. Guess I need to read the book. Do you EVER see small groups?
susan - my school uses AR but its part of self selected reading
Michele - What if you don't have enough copies for the whole class? I have lots of sets of books to use--with only 6 books in the set.
kathy - I also use AR during the self-selected reading block I think it works pretty well
susan - Julie, I would go with guided reading next. I
julie - My kids have to read every night as a homework assignment. They usually read AR books for points. I also have a quiet reading time after noon recess every day. Most kids read AR books then.
kath - How does that work? I'm thinking that you would have many different reading levels in a typical classroom. How does one book work for the whole class?
NancyD - Michele, that's my biggest question, too...how to get enough copies...
Sharon/IL - I teach 2nd grade. I wish I could talk the first grade teachers out of some of their books but like all teacher they hold on tight to any books.
NancyD - kath, it really can work. The teacher has to provoide different levels of support for different kids...
Jamie - Susan- One question I have about GR: Is it for tradebooks, or really only for shorty books and stories in textbooks?
Carolyn/ OH - Susan, please discuss how you do guided reading. : )
Lynn/1/va - Cheryl breaks her blocks into segments. The guided reading block consists of 3. The before reading which includes building or prior knowlege graphic organizers, etc. -Some type of lesson. Then she pairs the students but not too much of a reading ability gap between the two and the DO what she has taught. The students come back together and may add info to the graphic organizer if that is part of the lesson for the day. Is that clear?
NancyD - any ideas about how to "wrap up" the GR block each day?
Lynn/1/va - Susan you are right. That way the students can be paired off.
Sande - Where do you get the biggest bang for you buck? Cunningham's version or Pennell's?
Lee - How long do your guided reading blocks run each day?
Lynn/1/va - NancyD it depends on your Guided reading lesson.
Jamie - Susan - How do you work it with trade books - I'm assuming you only read out of the tradebook 3 days each week?
Michele - Some teachers in my school (where everyone is supposed to be implementing the 4 Blocks) feel that the Writing Block is not long enough.
susan - Sande, I'd have to say Cunningham
sea/2/nc - someone asked if you have to do an entire book for GR (answer, no) you might use just a selection focusing on your skill (figures of speech, etc.)
kinderkate - What is the teacher doing during guided reading?
Lynn/1/va - Lee your GR lesson should run about 30-40 mins.
NancyD - Cunningham's 4 blocks seems to make the morst sense to me---a great way to organize the day's Language arts instruction
Lynn/1/va - Kinder, the teacher is conferencing or listening to the pairs and taking notes on various students.
kath - Does Cunningham's method utilize running records?
susan - NancyD, my students love to do story pizza. I made a "pizza" out of poster board each piece is labeled with a story element, character, setting..... they like to select the slice they want to explain, the goal is to put the pizza back together again.
Jamie - sarah/2/TX - I hope so! I know I haven't been doing things just right. For a while I was meeting with students who had completed a writing project. Then I realized I should be having assigned days to meet with students so I could be sure to meet with each one each week. Is this right?
Lynn/1/va - I do the DRA Diagnostic Reading Assessment while mine are reading when it is that time of year. That is Running Records to the max.
julie/2/IN - Susan, What about grades? Do you grade in about the same way?
susan - sea, If your not a pizza person, a beach ball with story elements written on it works too. Where ever you right hand lands, thats what you answer
Sara/k/Tx - I use the Sunshine assessment kit to do my running records.
Lynn/1/va - I take RR at various times. I do the DRA on every child at every grading period.
sea/2/nc - susan, i love pizza! but other ideas are cute too!
Lynn/1/va - I don't do all the elements to the DRA.-just the RR and a few questions. I want to find out where their weaknesses are and what I need to work on. The first time was the hardest. After that I started at level 8 and went from there. I don't know where I will start this marking period.
sarahw/2/TX - kath i am using our basal sometimes--though I have complained all year about how long the stories are!
NancyD - kath, we do use the basal with the 4 blocks...it works out okay
Sharon/IL - I use a basal and I think it works great!.
NancyD - one good thing about the basal is we all have a copy, hee hee
Julie - Susan, thank you for the ideas! My district uses the newest Harcourt Brace and I find the stories are too hard for my 1st grade. Any suggestions on materials to use?
Jamie - sarah2/TX - Most of my students love the writing block! Some even ask to write in their Writing Journals (notebooks) when they have a bit of free time.
Sande - Lynn/1/va Do you do the comprehension part of the DRA every time you test a child?
Sharon/IL - That is what I like about it. This year we're getting new basals so now I'll have two sets to use.
kath - Lynn, Are your lowest kids at a level 8? Wow!!! I'm impressed!
Lynn/1/va - NO! I do what I think will be important to where I need to work with that child.
Lee - Each group for about 15-20 minutes?
sarahw/2/TX - Jamie-- I fight the battle of state writing samples--even though it will be 2 years before my students are tested-- we free write one week, formal write the next.
Jamie - In the Guided Reading block can students just read independently, also?
Sharon/IL - Susan, how about some ideas for the last part of guided reading. What are some activities you suggest?
Maggie1NC - I teach first grade and have over 75% who are working well below grade level and aren''t interested in reading or writing and many can't do either. Any suggestins?
susan - Jamie, during the "reading" section of guided reading the students can read indepently, with a partner, with a teacher, or (gasp) with a visitor. keep in mind I view a visitor as any warm body that walks in the door.
Jamie - sarahw/2/TX - I take it you teach 2nd Grade? I teach 3rd Grade, and feel compelled to teach different types of writing, too, but I think it can be done in 4 Blocks. I like your idea.
Lynn/1/va - My lowest is a 3. I teach at an RR school. 2 thirds are 8 and above.
Michele - I've had my students read independently on occasion, and I still take notes. They're still reading aloud (quietly).
kath - Have any of you who are using 4-blocks also have reading recovery in your school? How does it work together?
Lynn/1/va - Kath, it works beautifully. WOW! It is a very supportive program to 4 Blocks. The students are getting the same thing in both situations. What a great reinforcement.
Jamie - So, let me see if I am getting this right - I circulate around while my students are reading and take notes - about fluency, etc.???
Maggie1NC - kath, our RR teachers have been placed as part-time teachers in reg. classrooms.
Michele - Jamie, I write down strategies that I see them using, and ones I've helped them with, that they need to practice more.
Maggie1NC - Thanks for clearing that uup Lynn.
susan - Jamie, yup, that's it. I write down info to help me help them later
Lynn/1/va - Jamie, that's the right track. Her book goes into more detail.
Jamie - How long do you spend on the mini lesson at the beginning of the GR block? 10 minutes?
susan - Jamie, about 10 minutes is pretty accurate. Some times its more if its a new or difficult concept
Sande - Has anyone seen the new Cunningham book? What's it like?
teach/1st - I just bought the new 4Blocks book, from Apples and Acorns it's great!!!!!!!
susan - Sande, the new book is very good. Its an extension of the implemention book by Cheryl Sigmon
Jamie - Then, after the 10 minute mini lesson, students read aloud with partners for - say 20- 30 minutes?
dks - Lynn, does it address all elementary or just primary?
Jamie - I have just put in a purchase order for that new 4 Blocks book. I can't wait to get it. I really need it, as you can see.
teach/1st - I believe the new book is 1st through 3rd grades
Lynn/1/va - dks, it is mainly for 1st and 2nd but can be taken as high as 4th.
Jamie - Then after the 20 minutes of partner reading aloud ( with teacher circulating, and taking notes) what happens?
Jamie - Does anyone have any good titles for below grade level books for me? I teach 3rd Grade. What are you using?
Lynn/1/va - Jamie, the whole class comes together and discusses the findings if they are predicting. The may want to add to the graphic organizer the new info they have learned.
Lynn/1/va - Jamie, here is what the book says. Act out the story, write in response, complete a KWL or graphic organizer,or discuss the skill or strategy introduced in segment 1.
susan - Jamie, then the group comes back together to discuss the "treasure" they found in the reading. I have 1/2 spiral notebooks the students record their treasures in. The treasure is the answer to an opened ended comprehension question....What character do you like best? Why?
Jamie - I'm thinking not everyone will have completed the story. In my reading series, our stories are 20 pages long - 20 very full of words pages.
Sande - Jamie, What series do you use?
Jamie - Susan - I like that idea - to discuss the "treasure" they found in the reading! I can see that they wouldn't all have had to complete the story to be able to discuss a character, etc.
susan - Jamie, what grade do you teach?
Jamie - Houghton Mifflin
Jamie - I teach 3rd Grade.
Lynn/1/va - Jamie, is it Invitations to Literacy. This is what we use. I love it.
Jamie - As I understand it, the below grade level reading is to build fluency. Is it correct that I need 5-7 copies of each of these books?
susan - Jamie, neat age. I teach 4th this year, I divide my story up in 3 or 4 day segments. covering so many pages per day. We use graphic organizers and story maps to keep up with info from one day to the next. I have my graphic organizers on overhead trans.
Jamie - I think so - I'm a little blank right now. It has the Titanic and Pompeii stories in it. I like the stories too. We also use the older green Houghton Mifflin series for some of our reading. We like to pick the best from both.
Maggie1NC - teach, I don't teach in inner-city, but our school has inner-city kids bussed in and they are well below grade level. What do you do with yours?
Jamie - Susan - I'm assuming you do the same thing - break the tradebook up into segments, too. Makes sense.
teach/1st - Well my school does have reading recovery thank goodness that helps
susan - Jamie, exactly. I cover a story or trade book on grade level for 3 or 4 days then spend 2 days below grade level with poetry
Maggie1NC - teach, we have to split our classes in two and have a teacher on both sides of the room teaching at the same time. It's a great idea for smaller groups but I find my children are too easily distracted by all the goings on to learn anything.
Jamie - Susan - Then you're back to the trade book the next week, right? Because, I know we wouldn't be done in 3 days.
teach/1st - One of the things I do Maggie, is type up little books and run off copies for the whole class
susan - Jamie, when we use trade books we use the trade book till we finish it then do fluency days. I tried 3 days trade book stop 2 days fluency but it broke up the rhythm of the trade book
Michele - Will you explain how you use poetry for the below grade level days?
Jamie - Does anyone else have statewide Reading Comprehension testing in the spring for all 3rd Graders? We here in Wisconsin do. I feel I have to let my students practice reading independently (silently) to prepare for this. How does this fit into 4 Blocks?
teach/1st - We have State tests here in NY too! Jamie
susan - Michele, I use a piece of poetry for my fluency days. I cover the same skill I taught with the grade level material. I can see if the students can transfer the skill
Jamie - Susan - I think that is best. I was concerned about interrupting a tradebook. Besides breaking up the rhythm, no one wants to have a great tradebook taken away from them for several days.
Sonia - These tests that you speak of can not be any worse than what we're facing in SC this spring!
Sande - Michigan waits until 4th grade to test at the state level.
teach/1st - I use a lot of poetry too!
Jamie - Sonia - I'll bite....What are you facing this spring in SC??
Michele - When you use poetry do you read it together on chart paper first, then give them individual copies to read?
Randee - I am in an inner city school
dks - Susan, how long are the trade books you use? I teach third grade and it usually takes us 8-10 days to finish a book. Would you still recommend finishing the whole book before doing "fluency days?"
Randee - grade one and have to get my children through a test called the Terra Nova
Jamie - Susan - After finishing a trade book - any using up to 2 weeks on it, how many days would you spend on fluency days? More than 2?
Sonia - Jamie, It's called PACT...was designed after a test in Virginia.....98% of their students did not meet the standard!
susan - Jamie, to help get my kids ready for stand. test, for my guided reading assessment, I write a summary of the story with questions for them to answer in the format of the stand. test. Its a cold reading of familiar text which is the basis for most standardized testing
Jamie - Sonia - Is this a reading comprehension test, or does it cover all areas of the curriculum?
Randee - Has anyone heard of it I have been using the 4 blocks and hoping it will work for my kids
Jamie - Randee - We do the Terra Nova testing in our school district every year now - starting last year.
teach/1st - Yes Michelle, also I type the poems up into little books and make copies for the whole class, then they illustrate and it becomes easy reading
Sonia - Jamie, it covers everything....for example, a math question might say what is the lowest form of the fraction 6/8? Explain the steps you took to get your answer.
kelly - Susan, please explain fluency days. What other days are there?
Sande - We print poems onto note cards, laminate them, and store them in a file box. The kids love adding to the box.
susan - dks, sorry for the delay I was kicked off again. I would finish the book. My kids get upset when I've tried to stop in the middle of a good book
Michele - Am I correct in understanding the SAME story is read for the 3 days of grade level reading, and likewise, one story is read for the 2 days of below grade level?
dks - Sande, do the kids work on different poems? What do they do with them? More than read them aloud?
susan - Kelly, fluency days are when a teacher uses below grade level materials to teach guided reading. The rationale is that if the material is "easier" fluency will increase. The data is in "No Quick Fix"
Sande - Yes, We also use older students to help out. We have also shared them with the younger grades. Poetry was not something my kids enjoyed, now they do!
Michele - Am I correct in understanding the SAME story is read for the 3 days of grade level reading, and likewise, one story is read for the 2 days of below grade level?
blt - susan--if you are doing a novel at grade level, you wouldn't recommend stopping to do below level work during that time would you?
blt - dks--great boost for poor readers because they either go in groups or have read the poem so much they know it well
susan - blt, no I tried stopping a couple of times but it didn't seem like a success
blt - thanks susan, that was my gut feeling but wanted some input
dks - blt,do you provide the poems or do the kids pick them? Do you use poetry books or do you have a file? Do you level them in some way?
Jamie - Does anyone have any suggestions for below grade level book titles for my 3rd Grade class???? How many copies do I need of each? One per child?
blt - dks--i provide a new poem every monday, each child gets a copy and i usually either make a poster size for room or put it inpocket chart, then they usually start going out to read beginning on tuesday
Michele - Am I correct in understanding the SAME story is read for the 3 days of grade level reading, and likewise, one story is read for the 2 days of below grade level?
Jamie - By Below Grade level, for my 3rd Grade class, are we talking about anything that is Gr. 2 level?? Lower than that?
blt - jamie--i would say you could use 1st or 2nd grade level books depending on your class
Jamie - Susan - Thanks so much. Thanks to everyone else, too!!!!
Randee - I have a lot to cover in a short time in my classroom....where is the best place to start
Jamie - Randee - If you are just starting out in the 4 Blocks, I suggest you get the Month by Month Phonics for whatever grade level you are teaching. I love it. I takes care of Phonics and Spelling. I helps students learn to use word patterns to read and spell words. Lots of activities. Great ideas!
Judy - I agree with Jamie that the Month by Month phonics is great. I'm using the 2nd grade book and I love it! Pinnell uses ability grouping and Cunningham has everyone reading the same selection for guided reading. those who need more support and given it, I think.
Jamie - I've got to go. Thanks for the help, everyone! See you tomorrow, Judy.
Judy - I use the Cunningham method but I have Title 1 kids pulled during my reading block. I use one text for the rest of my class. I haven't been doing any below grade reading yet. I guess I could borrow from the 1st grade tradebook collections.
teach/1st - We give the tera nova too,
dks - Judy, do you feel you are meeting everyone's needs with one text?
Lee - Judy, do you teach 2nd? Do you use the phonics daily? Do you use literacy for the rest of the kids?essons
Judy - We used Terra Nova for the first time last year and it was a real shock for the kids as well as teachers. So much explaining to do even in Math. We started having the kids give explanations for math problems and writing sentences with a given word. I do phonics 4 days a week because we have a phonics book, Modern Curriculum Press. I feel that I have to use it. I used to really like it until I saw and experienced how well the Word Block works for phonics and spelling.
teach/1st - I have PHONICS THEY USE and it makes a lot of sense
Judy - I must confess that I do a modified running record when I have the kids do "round robin" reading. I know that's supposed to be a no-no but i just can't seem to get into it on the run around to groups!
Lee - Do you meet with each group daily? How long do you keep the same groups? For a book (trade)? Do you use centers for the rest?
Sande - I have a parent tape record each student reading a passage. You can mark the record at a later time. I had to use this tape to show a parent that his little darling still needed extra help with his reading skills.
Lee - Sande, thanks for the running record idea!
susan - folks I hate to go but a grumpy 5 year old is now sitting in my lap. It has really been great chatting with ya' ll tonight. If I can be of any help - don't know much but I'll share what I know, I'm at sjenkinson@aol.com
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