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The Teachers.Net resources concerning The 4-Blocks framework are extensive.
No where else will you find this level of support and formation designed to help you successfully bring
The Four Blocks Literacy Model to your classroom.
4-Blocks Literacy ChatBoard
Sifting and Sorting Through the 4-Blocks Literacy Model
Cheryl/Host - I guess we're about ready to begin?
Cheryl/Host - Our discussion tonight centers around the perils of ability grouping. For decades we have been using this practice. Although we ahve done this with the best of intentions, we have caused much harm to children. We have divided and categorized them from their first day of school. I hope we can share experiences tonight and talk about solutions. Any comments to begin?
carrottop/GA - Cheryl, should the guided reading be a whole class lesson or should it be done in small groups?
Katharine - We are sooo excited to begin, Cheryl!
Laura - Cheryl, I was considering teaching a transitional first next year and looping them up to second. This would be an option for those children that would normally be retained. Should I use Building Blocks, or stick with 4 blocks?
sherri - Cheryl, how are you really supposed to group students?
dawn - Uh,oh isn't grouping a bad word nowadays?:-)
Katharine - My question is like Laura's. I'll be teaching summer school - they've finished K but aren't ready for first. Should I do buidling blocks or start with 4-blocks.
Mary - this is the first time in 23 yrs. that I haven't grouped kids by ability and i am amazed at their progress
Kathleen - Really, do we even know a child's "ability" when we group? Don't we group based upon performance,not ability?
bubbles - Is there some level at which academic grouping is ok.
Laura - I have seen tremendous gains this year in my heterogeneous groups. I will continue this way next year.
Cheryl/Host - Many of your first comments center around recognizing developmental differences of kids. They aren't all ready at the same time.
sherri - I'll start. I said this a little earlier. My principal makes us group our students - high, avg., low. My low students KNOW that . They are depressed and hate reading. What is the correct way.
Sue - I'm so confused with grouping. I just started grouping my second graders. My principal believes in ability grouping. I use The World of Reading by Silver Burdett Ginn. I'm not sure how do go about grouping. What do I do with the slower readers?
Cheryl/Host - I think Kathleen's got a good point about what we base current grouping on.
Barb L. - We started 4 blocks a couple of years ago in my school and I have seen so much progress in those "buzzards" that previously couldn't get out of the first preprimer. they are not on level but are much further than they would have been in groups.
carrottop/GA - Cheryl, we are trying to use the four blocks. We have no basil, we have Accelerated Reader which is our main tool for kid. My problem is in know whether to do guided reading with the total group or with half the class( since I have two 50 minute seguiments with half the class)
Sadie - I guess it would depend on what you mean by "grouping" I am a kindergarten/Reading Recovery teacher. In my K class (and in the past in myt 1st grade class) I "group' my students based on strategy level, CAP, etc. for reading instruction. My groups are FLEXIBLE and change constantly.
Cheryl/Host - We really do have to start educating our adminstrators, school boards, parents, etc. about the harm of grouping.
Katharine - Our district studied New Zealand Balanced Lit methods. Fluid groups. I don't think any one ever made them truly fluid. Once you are placed, you are placed.
Cheryl/Host - Carrottop, are you doing the full 4-blocks in 2 - 50 min. segments? Not really possible.
Laura - Yes, Cheryl. Even the youngest of students are aware of these groupings and what they mean.
Kathleen - Do those of you using grouping do much multilevel instruction?
ozark - This is my first time in this "room thing", but I just couldn't resist the excitement of having Cheryl's knowledge here with us tonight! Yeah!
mouse - Katharine: yes my school had "flexible groups" that weren't flexible at all
Cheryl/Host - Ozark, ha! Very easily impressed!
bluebird - I agree with Katherine... I hear folks say they have fluid groups, but I never see that really happen.
mouse - Kathleen, what do you mean?
carrottop/GA - No we have 3 hours for the 4 blocks, but that time is when half of the class goes to the computer lab
Katharine - Thanks, mouse. Even I have a hard time keeping up with changes. Lots of planning
Sadie - Cheryl I have a question. In my class, for example, I have kids who are extremely limited in their concepts about print and I have kids who are reading at a second grade level. How could i possibly meet their ever changing needs at the same time?
Cheryl/Host - Research reflects that kids don't break out of the rut of the ability groups. Not to mention the trama for some kids!
Kathleen - mouse, lessons and activities (like shared reading, modeled writing) that teach to many levels at the same time
Cheryl/Host - Sadie, are you familiar with 4-Blocks? That's the way we do it with such diversity in the class.
mouse - Cheryl, it is ineffecient for the teacher too: keeping up with assignments from other classes, getting in all youwant to teach in inflexible time periods.
Katharine - Sadie, I questioned that problem for a full year. Now I'm finding that I can make it work.
Laura - My little ones are well aware of who the "good" readers are. They really puff up when placed in a group with them.
bluebird - Cheryle, could you list some resource references for the research in one of your columns?
carrottop/GA - Cheryl, I have had some of my lowest kids make great strides this year. 2 of them came from about 2.2 to 4.0 this year
mouse - Kathleen, well I have yet to find a skill that g/t students and low students didn't both need. I can't think of one thing I'd teach one and not the other.
Cheryl/Host - Believe it or not, there isn't any research to support that ability grouping is successful. There's definitely no research saying that ability grouping is even equal in success to an approach like 4-Blocks.
Sadie - Cheryl, we spent a lot of time in our district incorporating a balanced literacy model. I have read a lot about 4-blocks and I use the word wall, etc in my program. I also use the month-by-month books.
carrottop/GA - We do sort of ability group but it really doesn't matter since everything is individualized
Kathleen - mouse, what age/grade?
Katharine - I have kids who don't know all their letters yet, "reading" side by side with full tilt readers. They learn comprehension, and learn in spite of themselves.
mouse - Kathleen, I also do a lot of writing assignments, my students sometimes work in pairs to support each other if necessary. I don't know shared reading and writing very well at this time.
bluebird - We implement the FourBlocks model at my school. It has made a big difference.
Mindy - There is alot of concern that we can't meet with our children enough using the 4-block method. I am going to give it a try anyways next year. With my first grade students.
Laurie/AR - What are some alternatives to round robin reading?
mouse - I teach 3rd, Kathleen!
Cheryl/Host - Katharine is one of the best examples of a new convert from ability grouping in reading to a new approach.
Dollie - We had a group of "low" 5th graders this year and grouped them in a class together (this was the 1st time we had ability grouped). We found that these kids did not have the models needed to improve their reading, thinking skills which of course filters over to other subjects. We will not be ability grouping next year!
teach - Laurie, have you tried buddy reading?
Sadie - Cherly, I agree that our traditional groupoing strategies are ineffective. But I am having great successes in my guided reading flex groups. I am really trying hard to understand the 4-block guided reading model.
bluebird - Our students have more one on one time that is meaningful with the model than we ever had before we began to implement.
Katharine - You betcha, Cheryl!!!
carrottop/GA - Laurie, partner reading where two children read together. Reading of trade books and conferencing with teacher
Cheryl/Host - Laurie, one of the problems with Round Robin is that there's nothing magical about our "teacher ears". We really don't have to hear each child read everyday to have them grow.
Laura - There is a book out called Goodbye Round Robin. The author escapes me.
Kathleen - mouse, when you build an experience chart together, with contributions from all of the students, and as you write, you point out and elicit word patterns, punctuation, spellings, vocab. you are addressing multi-levels within the lesson, something for everyone. Some things go over the heads of some kids, but their time isn't really wasted because you are also offering info for their needs
Sadie - Katherine, i guess as a Reading Recovery teacher I try really hard to individualize my prompts and I can't do that whole group.
teach - Dollie, we are trying that next year.Our super says that research backs it.
Sadie - Laura... I have that book but I can't think of the author either!
Katharine - The fact that I don't have to listen to every child read every day was one of the hardest for me (and my district) to accept.
Laurie/AR - I do buddy reading. I have even tried a game called "Stump the Teacher" After a while these get boring.
maurine - How do LD kids fit into 4 Blocks?
Cheryl/Host - Let's clarify that 4-Blocks isn't really whole group instruction. It's multi-level instruction. There is a big difference.
Karma - Laurie, what is "Stump the Teacher?"
Katharine - Aah Haa, Sadie. You must learn about Writers' Workshop. Burn most of your writing prompts tomorrow.
Barb - Laurie, what is Stump the Teacher?
bluebird - Our Reading Recovery teachers see that the RR students who are in Four Block classrooms with strong implementation make much faster progress than those that are with weakder teachers.
Laurie/AR - We both read 1 or two pages of the story. I ask them questions. They ask me questions. They try to "stump" me.
Rhonda - Are there any good sites out there on Writer's Workshop?
Cheryl/Host - Did any of you have personal experiences----tramas--as a result of you or your family member being grouped like the one I shared in last week's column?
teach - That sounds fun.
Sadie - No, Katharine, that's not what I mean by prompts.
Kathleen - Goodbye Round Robin,Twenty-Five Effective Oral Reading Strategies by Michael F. Opitz, Timothy V. Rasinski, Lois Bridges Bird http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0325000980/teachersnet
Sadie - That's good to know, bluebird.
Lynn/VA/1st - bluebird, our RR teachers find the same thing because it really supports our methods and theirs. They complement each other.
Cheryl/Host - It took having a child like CAroline to really open my eyes as to what it's like for a child who's not in the eagles group.
Laura - Thanks Kathleen. No Cheryl, but my son was very upset when he didn't make the "gifted" program in 1st grade. Imagine.
Kathleen - Cheryl, as I wrote to you, I was stuck in the 2nd reading group throughout my elem years and I always felt sort of inferior, or "dumb" compared to all of my best friends who were in the "top" group
Laurie/AR - I remember being placed in the top reading group. I assume it was because I could read just about anything out loud. I didn't have a lick of comprehension skills. So I'm in the top group but I was making c's in reading.
bluebird - Recently we had Career Day at our school. All classes use the share time at the end of the SSR block and the Writing block.....the speakers were amazed at the higher level questions that our "at-risk" kids were asking.
mouse - Cheryl: I was in the low math group forever. And was going to stay. My mother pulled me out of Fundamentals of Math in 8th grade and put me in Algebra. They said, she can't do long division, how can she do algebra? Well I made Bs in algebra. I was always in the high reading group though.
Mindy - I was one of those struggling readers at third grade my parents were that I probably would be lucky to finish high school. June 5th I will finish my master's.
Barb L. - thanks, Kathleen. Sounds like a book I will need to read this summer.
Kathleen - Mindy, good for you!
Laura - Congratulations Mindy - that's great.
Sadie - katharine, when i am reading with a child I often take a running record and then I choose a teaching point based on what the child used or neglected while reading. If the child neglected meaning, for example, I may say, "did that make sense?"
mouse - I am certaiin that being in the low math group did not help me become a better math student. Obviously it did not!
Cheryl/Host - Mindy, determination paid off!! Congrats!
Ellie - have found that non-ability grouping frees the kids to think about learning rather than which group they are in.
Lynn/VA/1st - I really feel this method allows the students to think for themselves and shifts them from thinking about how fast they are reading to "what " they are reading and enjoying it.
Katharine - Okay, back to groups. Next year I will be teaching at least two grade levels. Probably 3. Do I run guided reading for all these children out of the same books?
Barb - I have trouble finding enough time for all 4 blocks, our schedule is so inflexible, anyone else have this problem?
bluebird - The new book, TEACHER'S GUIDE TO THE FOUR BLOCKS is the best of the Cunningham books. Cheryle, you worked on it...good job, "Dixie Chick
Laura - Sounds ambitious Katharine. Depends on the kids I guess. HOw about book club types lessons around themes or concepts.
carrottop/GA - One of my boys had always been in the lowest group, we moved to another state and had him repeat the fourth grade. I made the principal promise not to let his teacher see his records until 6 weeks after school started. It took my son three months to realize he was now in the top reading grouop. He was an honor graduate and now makes the big bucks with the company that controls the internet domain system
Cheryl/Host - Thanks, Bluebird. You must be from INdy! I hope the book has been helpful.
Kathleen - Cheryl is the co-author (with 4-Blocks creators Pat Cunningham and Dottie Hall) of The Four Blocks Literacy Framework: Teaching All Our Children In Primary Classrooms
Sadie - Cheryl, I have approached my principal about adopting 4-blocks based on what I have read. My concern is that we have worked hard to shift some teacher's thinking to get them to look at their children as individual learners. I understand the 4-blocks is multil-level, but could you pleas explain how the GR block is multi-level?
bubbles - Cheryl I need structure in teaching reading; any suggestions?
Laurie/AR - Ok. I need to get some terminology straight. What is the difference between guided reading and shared reading. Please don't think I'm stupid.
Cheryl/Host - CArrots example is classic. Kids live up to your expectations, don't they?
ShelleyC - My husband still feels very insecure about his reading because of his experience in a low group. He felt dumb and never liked to read as a result.
bluebird - We having been trying book talks at our school. The students are crazy about it.
Kathleen - Laurie, let's agree that we all have different backgrounds of information and all of us need to have terms defined for us. :-)
mouse - My theory is that grouping became popular when integration of schools was forced. I think it was an insidious way to keep kids segregated.
Katharine - Yes, I like book talks too -- even my lowest "readers" do them
Laura - Cheryl, how does it go - reach for the stars and you may just get the moon.
Cheryl/Host - Sadie, although many of the activities in the model take place with the whole group, the activities offer something for each learne that makes it multi-level. It's not teaching to the middle like whole group methods I've tried in the past.
bubbles - sometimes the new reading seems like anything goes
ozark - Cheryl, what books are "must haves" for someone just trying to begin the 4-blocks in first grade...I use Open Court also.
Lynn/VA/1st - mouse-=that is interesting. I never thought of it that way.
carrottop/GA - I have thought guided reading was the teaching of a skill like finding a main idea or recognizing synonyms. Am I right?
Laura - ozark- Month by Month Phonics for 1st grade is a must. I liked Classrooms That Work also.
Sadie - Cheryl, could you give me an example for, say... a first grade class?
mouse - Lynn: well now it's based on SES and not color, but I think it still goes on.
Sadie - Laura, I am a mentor teacher and I bought Classrooms that Work for all of our new teachers!
teach - We use Saxon Phonics at my school. We really like it.
Cheryl/Host - There are many definitions for Guided Reading, especially after the intro of the Pinnell/Fountas book. In 4-Blocks, it just refers to the time that the teacher plans a guided lesson for the class to teach comprehension skills applied to real reading.
Mary K&1 - Cheryl, when did grouping start? When I went through grade school, we weren't group - that was in the 50s, so I'm guessing that it started in the 60s
Laura - Great mentoring Saide
bluebird - Guided reading focuses on comprehension. We think of the basal teacher's edition as a cook book. You would never eat everything in any cook book. We pull out only the comprehension stuff. The other things might fit into other blocks. You have to unde
teach/1st - I have purchased and am reading all of the books and I watched the video, I would really like to have the training now
Chuck - Phonics is the only way to go, teach.
Chris - Cheryl, our district is wanting to use 4 blocks next year and we have purchased the books, the video, and many of us are on the mailring. Also wouldn't think of missing your column. We would like to get additional inservice at our school. How does one go about doing that?
Katharine - I have guided reading just like the 4-blocks, but then I do reading jobs after. Everyone is on task, and I pull a few. (don't tell Cheryl, lol)
Ellie - Grouping was practiced way before integration.
Kathleen - I was grouped in the 50's
Barb - MaryK&1--I was grouped for reading in the 50's so it probably depended on where you were
Kathleen - I was grouped in the 50's
Micteach - You have to get Guide to teaching 4-blocks.
carrottop/GA - Cheryl, we usually teach a skill and them have the children apply to the book they are reading since we do not have a basil reading series beginning at third grade. We have a madate to use the four blocks
Mary K&1 - Chuck, phonics is only one part of teading and writing - you shouldn't ignore all the other aspects
Cheryl/Host - Chris, send me a personal email about training.
Ellie - Chuck, phonics is only one way to go.
Laura - I have managed to squeeze out 1/2 hour every morning for learning centers too. Now that I have the time management under control. I'm not even using the timer that much anymore - lol.
Mary K&1 - I was just lucky then, eh?
Cheryl/Host - Katharine, we'll have to discuss the "reading jobs:" thing! Ha!
Kathleen - Chuck, I'm sorry, but I don't agree with a phonics only approach, is that what you meant?
mouse - hmmm not from my experience, but then again I'm a southerner...we would have come to grouping later
ShelleyC - Another drawback of grouping is all the seatwork that seemed necessary to keep everything going. I love the freedom from all that busy work!
Chuck - It starts with phonics. Decode words. Open them up.
maurine - I attended 1st gr. in 1960 and was grouped for reading. But my teacher taught us reading using phonics and sight methods as well as showing us what good literature was.
Sadie - Cheryl, I'm glad that you mentioned that. Our school bought the Pinnell/Fountas book for every primary teacher. When would you teach strategic reading at a more individualized level? ie.... so that a child who is trying to get 1:1 under control is not learning something that is beyond his grasp
bluebird - I heard a cute true story.... a child in a 4 Block class had been reading about butterflies...every block had something to do about butterflies. The little girl came home and told her mom, " Did you know that butterflies come from raccoons?" Ha.
Cheryl/Host - I'm at cmsigmon@aol.com. Lately I'm behind on my emails, though. Please be patient!
Micteach - I think that guided reading is the most difficult block..
Kathleen - Shelley, excellent point about the seatwork (busywork)
Barb L. - Amen, Shelley! No more "meaningful" seatwork to grade!
Kathleen - bluebird, that's cute :-)
Chuck - You had a good teacher, Maurine.
Micteach - Laura... the time thing takes some getting used to
Micteach - You have to get Guide to teaching 4-blocks.
Laura - I found that Self Selected was hard to get going in the beginning. Writing has always been my favorite, followed by Guided.
mouse - Sadie, but what do you mean beyond their grasp? What do you teach one kid that the other doesn't need as well
Kathleen - Well, it starts with more than one factor, phonics, understanding that print is meaningful, that reading is enjoyable, etc etc etc :-)
mouse - sadie, where did you group up/
bluebird - When we started the Four Blocks our schoolwide discipline improved quickly.
carrottop/GA - Thanks for the address, Cheryl, I may have some questions in the fall
Cheryl/Host - Sadie, we still need to explain the multi-level part of the model. The kids do get individual help across the blocks and the 1:1.
Laura - Mic - I have it. I bought it with the timer - lol.
Katharine - Guys, seat work is not always busy work. Don't you send them to their seats for guided reading? And Word Wall Work, and Reading & wriiting?
Laurie/AR - I will still small groups next year. What do you recommend the other students do?
Chuck - The enjoyable part started on my knee when my daughters were young. They loved it. We have to encourage parents to read to their children.
carrottop/GA - Does anyone use Reading Renanaince with the 4-blocks?
Karma - bluebird...what do you attribute the improved behavior?
Laurie/AR - Oops my sentence didn't make sense. I will still use small groups. They are not necessarily ability grouped.
mouse - Cheryl: I mentioned the on level, below level split for guided reading to a curriculum coord. and she was appalled! Said that kids had to read at their EXACT level ALL THE TIME!
Cheryl/Host - Teach, it's a specific type of balanced literacy program. Kathleen will post the website for more info.
Laura - laurie - when do you plan to do the small groups?
Kathleen - Chuck, yes, you are so right
teach/1st - I agree that behavior is better because all are actively involved
Barb L. - I agree, Katharine. There are times when the kids need to do paper work. What we're talking about is all that work needed to keep kids busy while the old reading groups were taking place.
Chris - The first 4 Blocks book I read was Cheryl's book, on Implementing the 4 Blocks. It really helped me to understand what it was about. I, too, like the new Guide to the 4 Blocks, but I just wanted to say that this book is what turned a lot of us at my school to this model.
bluebird - Laurie, as someone who has been into the Four Blocks at school....my suggestion would be to try the model...as it is written. Really get into it...we were so surprised at it's success.
Laurie/AR - laura, I'm not sure I understand. When in the day?
Lynn/VA/1st - My students go to workstations that I have set up.
Barb - Chuck--we have a large percentage of parents in our district who are illiterate
Sadie - mouse, I know that I am not explaining this properly... but a child who does not yet understand the difference between letters and words, etc.... or is a pre-production stage of writing would be very confused if I was showing the group how to find "chunks" in big words to help us read. The first child needs very different experiences. (I know I am not explaining this the best I can.....)
maurine - Your classes sound wonderful!
Cheryl/Host - I'm puzzled about why anyone would want to group kids with the stats on 4-blocks showing that there is an effective way to instruct and to grow kids without that stigma.
Laura - yes - are you planning to modify 4 block or try to squeeze out extra time for reading groups.
Micteach - I really have found since "Dottie's workshop that I really like to use the Three Ring Circus. It really gives me the versitility that I need to teach Guided Reading to different levels. The kids seem to enjoy reading this way also.. Although we only do it about once a week.
Laurie/AR - I am new to 4 blocks. I was introduced to it last year. I plan to read the books and use it full force next school year.
Laura - and do you really feel you will need to do this?
bluebird - The thing we like the most is that worksheets are almost gone. Our purple monster has died.
sherri - VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION - Can 4 Blocks be used for 3rd grade????????????????????
Barb - Mic--What is Three Ring Circus?
Barb L. - Mic, what's 3 ring circus?
mouse - Another thing about grouping: This doesn't apply to my school, and I'm sure not others, but research says that low groups tend to get the least experienced teachers. High Groups get the most experienced. Isnt' that funny? That's the big thing that turned me off grouping. Though as I said, at my present school that is not the case
Chuck - Also, Kathleen, and this is the crucial - English teachers have to be trained in ENGLISH. Also, they have to know why they are teaching fiction. What is the function of literature in a child's and adult's life. Why are we teaching it at all? Answers to these philosophical questions help shape an intelligent approach to bonding a child to a book, which is the story of humankind. And the miracle of language.
Laura - Sherri - YES!!!
Cheryl/Host - Sherri, we've used it through 8th grade--modified, of course---but with GREAT results!
Micteach - I really have found since "Dottie's workshop that I really like to use the Three Ring Circus. It really gives me the versitility that I need to teach Guided Reading to different levels. The kids seem to enjoy reading this way also.. Although we only do it about once a week.
Sadie - Cheryl... in our district we are required to group our kids for guided reading but it is very clear the the groups are to fluid and based on frequent evaluation. I think when we talk about grouping we are talking about 2 different things.
Barb - Sherri--I use it in 3rd grade--I'm just beginning
mouse - Sherri it's perfect for 3rd grade.
Katharine - Cheryl, lets please talk about guided reading in a classroom with kids at a pre production level (and a 5 second attention span) and other children at a 3rd grade level.
Kathleen - chuck, you are obviously a lover of the printed word! You must be a good role model for your students :-)
Micteach - Three ring circus having some children read individually.. some with partners and some in pairs
teach/1st - One of my first graders came back after Spring break and said she was reading at home on vacation and she found the PROBLEM in her book! That impressed me!
Mary K&1 - For those who don't know, The four blocks are --Guided Reading, Self Selected Reading, Writing and Words
mouse - when I was a brand new teacher I taught the low math and reading. The gifted and talente teacher was a teacher with 30 years experience
Kathy/5/IA - Are literature circles a part you see added in the upper grade. Is there any info on this. I use Harvey Daniel's book as a guide.
Chris - I am still having trouble when using 3 ring circus. It is a management thing, what do you have the students who finish early working on. I am never done with my group before the others.
maurine - I'm with Katherine. What about kids with ADHD, or who are learning disabled in reading?
Cheryl/Host - Katharine, what's the question? That's what 4-Blocks is all about---heterogeneous instruction.
Kathleen - mouse, yes, good point. The kids who need the most expert help are often put in the corner or hallway with a volunteer or non-certified (non-trained) tutor
bluebird - One thing I think is important to remember is that the model is a framework for delivering a strong literacy based curriculum. You must know your standards--objectives so that they can be woven into the lessons.
sherri - What book should I buy first to get me started for next year?????
Sadie - Mouse, and the low groups who need the most practice with continuous text usually get the most fragmented program! As you say... they are often "taught" by paraprofessionals.
Cheryl/Host - Micteach, let's clarify that 3-ring isn't an excuse to return to ability grouping. We can group for many needs.
mouse - Chris! That topic is addressed in Cheryl's latest article. It is VERY good.
Chuck - I've thought about it a lot. I was educated by creative writer teachers, and I've read Northrop Fry: the Educated Iamgination. I recommend it highly. Read also John Updike. All teachers of little, little kids should read the tough books of literature theory.
Laura - sherri - month by month phonics for 3rd grade and classrooms that work
mouse - Sadi: yes and remember how no one wanted to teach the low group? Well duh... if no one wants to teach it, how do youthink the students feel?
teach/1st - Sherri, Classroom That Work is a great starter, then the Teacher's Guide to Four Blocks (my opinion)
Cheryl/Host - By the way, if it appears that I'm ignoring any of your questions, I think we all know why! The Questions are flying across the screen! Just repeat them, please.
Chris - Great, just haven't been able to get it printed off yet.
Katharine - But in all this time I haven't seen it answered fully. How do you teach kids who can't read a thing, using a grade level text? How do they sit through a regular length story when they can't sit for 20 seconds?
Sadie - Mouse, Richard Allington published an article on that very topic. I think it was his article on Repeated Readings
Micteach - No but it allows me to teach needed skills in flexible groups. Plus it gives a small group the chance to have more of my time. It is definitely flexible.. with some choice involved
Cheryl/Host - Little kids reading Updike! Yikes! Maybe a bit depressing, don't you think?
mouse - Kathy: I used book club format in 3rd grade which is close but not quite to lit. circles. I think 4 blocks experts would said it is a great guided reading strategy
Patience/IL - It works Katharine.....
teach/1st - Month by Phonics (for your grade level) is a good buy too SHERRI
Laurie/AR - I bought Month by Month phonics for 2nd grade. It talks about a book At the Dinosaur Stomp. You have to buy the cassette with it. It it so good. The kids loved it and begged to hear it over and over.
Chris - And again, Sherri, I will say, I really liked Cheryl's Implementing the 4 Blocks
bluebird - Cheryle, I see the need for principals in the schools where teachers are trying to implement Four Blocks really understand the model. I have seen some principals really "squelch" teacher's enthusiasm..
Kathleen - The Educated Iamgination by Northrop Frye: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0253200881/teachersnet
Kathy/5/IA - Mouse - I have one book describing "Book Clubs" - I need to read it this summer!
Chris - Laurie, do you know the publisher for At the Dinosaur Stomp?
mouse - Sadie: I haven't seen it, but have read other books about the topic. I'll try to katch it.
Katharine - I know it works -- but I see their glazed over eyes. And what about split classes? What's the grade level text used then?
Cheryl/Host - Katharine, you must make the choice of what support all class members need. You have many options: partners, echo with whole group, choral, shared, teacher-read-aloud, playschool, Book Club. So many choices based on their needs with that text. And, we read, reread, and reread again.
Kathleen - Bluebird, try to get your principal to sign up for the 4-Blocks mailring, it's very illuminating
teach/1st - I brought my principal some of the articles off the mailring she ordered books for each grade level and the videos (I a very lucky)
Laurie/AR - No I don't. I bought the big book, cassette and small books through Scholastic.
mouse - Kathy: well I used the model described on Patricia Cunningham's site. The kids and I LOVED IT.
EV in CA - Katharine, at the beginning of the year you do a lot of shared reading during GR time.
Mary K&1 - Katharine - do they have to read the whole story in one sitting? Can't it be broken into secments? Can you guide them through one chunck at a time?
Laurie/AR - It might be called Saturday Night at the Dinosaur Stomp.
sherri - How does 4 blocks fit into a school district that is frantic over TEST scores and teaching SKILLS, SKILLS, SKILLS
Kathleen - Hi, EV, we're talking about ways to avoid "ability" grouping for reading instruction
Sadie - Cherly, my prinicpal is interested in 4-blocks. How would one go about getting trained... (southern california)
Kathy/5/IA - I haven't seen that one, Mouse. I will go check it out later! Thanks!!
Laurie/AR - Oh, wait. Would that make Scholastic the publisher? Tee hee I'm brain dead.
bluebird - Already there, Kathleen. My whole school is committed to Four Blocks. It is some other folks we see around.
mouse - Cheryl: book clubs are great. I could document differentiation for g/t talented kids... and the kids loved picking their books. They would say: YES! I get to read "Dog Called Kitty!"
Katharine - Third graders can read a whole book at one time. They can read it twice while a beginning reader is stumbling through once. Making them read it again is like busy work.
Lynn/VA/1st - Sherri I have had a difficult time teaching skills as well. How have you all done this. In which block????
Kathleen - Saturday Night at the Dinosaur Stomp: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1564026930/teachersnet
Laura - Katharine - What if you gave them a purpose to reread?
bluebird - Last year our second grade had strong implementation of the Four Blocks....we gave MAT-7 testing and scores went up 28% points. Isn't that a testimony?
Laurie/AR - i am not familar with "book clubs"
Lynn/VA/1st - bluebird that is great.
Kathleen - HI, Patience! We're talking about alternatives to "ability" grouping for reading instruction
maurine - Anyone here from Texas?
Laurie/AR - Our literacy scores are down this year. I'm very disappointed. I am in a magnet school. We're not doing something right.
sas - yes...i am...dallas
sherri - Laurie, are you using 4 blocks?
teach/1st - I have 27 first graders and Gudided Reading 4blocks way is better (in my opinion) I use poems as easy reading for several days a week
maurine - SAS, so are you "fully" using 4Blocks? What grade do you teach?
Marcia -
Kathleen - Laurie, scores aside for a moment, how did it look and feel during the year as you observed the kids?
teach/1st - Many teachers are interested in 4 blocks now
Laura - Laurie - also where were the children when you began, and how much growth did they achieve?
sas - to tell you the truth..nothing...i have one year of school left...i try and hit the meetings and get updated on topics...sorry
bluebird - I recently saw the new Four Block video. It is much better than the first tape. I suggest you get it if you are interested in implementation. It is even good for experienced Four Block teachers. The tape has book clubs on it.
Laurie/AR - I have not been using it full force. I just think our teachers need to join together and plan. Right now we have so many people doing different things.
Lynn/VA/1st - We are so fortunate to have a curriculum that glides easily with 4-blocks
Katharine - I do use 4-blocks guided reading -- but in addition we do reading jobs. I think I'll start calling it "book clubs", maybe that'll be better. :)
mouse/Texas - ooh I guess I should get this tape
sherri - A couple of people asked about 4 blocks and test scores. How does the program measure up when the kids are tested once a year on skills
sas - could you tell me about 4blocks please
Kathy/5/IA - My district is leaning toward a "balanced literacy" approach, but many want to use F/P ... I hope to go with "four block" do you think it will be a problem that we go in these 2 directions? We are a large district.
Lynn/VA/1st - How can we get the tape??
teach/1st - I watched the video and it was an excellent reference after having read the books
mouse/Texas - Book Clubs was when students chose books from a list of 4, then read as partners/small groups
Laura - Laurie - to get the full effect you need to do all four blocks. That is the beauty of this approach.
Cheryl - Sherri, our results were phenomenal--even in the first year.
Barb - Katharine, what are reading jobs?
mouse/Texas - Sherri: My kids did very well this year. No failures in reading at all.
Katharine - Kathy, my district is very balanced Lit. 4-blocks is the next logical step.
Laurie/AR - The test scores were the 4th grade ACTAP. I teach 2nd grade. I think my students have grown so much in reading. I am just not sure how they will do in a test situation. These scores are printed in the paper.
bluebird - We are tested once a year. Our scores are showing growth every year in classrooms that have strong implementation.
Kathy/5/IA - Do they discuss them also, Mouse?
Cheryl - Kathy, it's not a problem unless a teacher is trying to do both---then it's not 4-Blocks.
Laura - Sherri - My class had the most growth as measured on the Terranova. This was my first year using 4 blocks. I am a F/P convert.
bluebird - Our teachers get together and put all their testing into testing format so kids will have routine practice. We try to stay away from "canned" test prep materials.
Cheryl - Again, like Laura just said, why do it any other way if we can do the job without labeling kids?
Lynn/VA/1st - Where can I order the tape??
teach/1st - Laura are you fist grade
Katharine - Barb, reading jobs are things to do with the books they are reading. While they're busy I pull them out to work on books that are focused more to their needs..
mouse/Texas - Kathy: well not like in Lit Circles. Mon-Thursday they would respond in journal and we'd share journals. On Friday they would get together and do something as a small group. Like make a story map or do that Character: says, acts, feels, thinks chart.
Kathy/5/IA - So if a teacher picks one way or the other for guided reading and then incorporates the writing, working with words, and the self selected reading .. that should be OK???
mouse/Texas - I had 18 out of 20 kids get "medals" on TAAS for academic recognition. All in reading (some had double for math as well)
bluebird - We order everything from IESS, but you can find materials on this website.
Laura - Kathy - no, not really. there is a fundamental difference between f/p and 4block guided.
Cheryl - Kathy, I'm hoping the choice will be 4-Blocks! My bias! I'm all for not labeling kids, as you can probably tell!
EV in CA - Katharine, I am making sure that I conference with the kids I'm worried about - along with everyone else in SSR
Barb - Katharine--would reading jobs be done with self selected selections as well as guided reading selections?
bluebird - I guess this is no surprise, but when our test scores went up in reading comprehension so did our math scores go up. What a bonus!
she-rah - do you miss your family when you are on the road mrs. sigmon
Cheryl - Bluebird, they can finally READ the math part of the test!!!
Laura - Kathy - As Mosaic has proven discussion is a key element to comprehension for readers. This element is lacking in f/p guided groups where children are reading in a group, but not interacting.
Katharine - Barb -- they can choose a book to research, or make a story map, or make a book cover or act out -- that sort of thing.
Kathy/5/IA - I agree with you Cheryl .. and that is how I deal with my 5th grade literature circles - and they have worked just fine, but we have some in the district (at other school) that hold the F/P as their "bible" (no offence - I PERSONALLY like 4-block!!)
Cheryl - She-rah, yes, very much! They understand, though, and really support my work with 4-Blocks.
Kelly - In our first grade we have about 20 children not on grade level in reading. There are about 60 children at or above grade level. The teachers have been doing 4 blocks, but this seems like a large number of students. Suggestions? Explanations?
Lynn/VA/1st - Barb, that is when I do something similar. I say something like "Today when you read Iwant you to be ablr to tell me....." They really love it.
Barb - Thanks, Katharine
bluebird - Cheryle is one of the best for getting training together. If you are looking for training ... you should contact her. She is an excellent teacher.
Kathy/5/IA - Good point, Laura! The discussion has been the HIGHLIGHT this year!
EV in CA - When you do the 3 ring circus do you select kids for each type of reading based on what will help them the most?
mouse/Texas - Kathy, I tried lit. circles format...but we struggled a bit. Ihave 3rd graders. Sometimes I had the whole small group do the tasks though. Like the small group would together think about questions just like the discussion leader. They just didn't have the separate jobs. Couldn't handle it in 3rd grade...I couldn't, rather. heh
Cheryl - Kelly, that, again, is just what 4-Blocks is all about---multi-level and multi-approach.
Kathy/5/IA - We would LOVE to have you come to IOWA to train, Cheryl!!!!
bluebird - I want to learn more about 3 ring circus.
she-rah - yes..i think they do....i think they are very proud of you
Kelly - so, Cheryl, I should not be worried about that amount not reading on grade level?
Laura - bluebird - The Teachers Guide to 4blocks has information on 3 ring circus.
Chris - Kathy, where are you at in Iowa?
Kathy/5/IA - Our third grade teachers use Lit. Circle ... but much more "guided".
Kathy/5/IA - Sioux City .... Chris.
bluebird - I know, Laura, I need to experience it myself... have not had time to do that yet.
mouse/Texas - What about the theory that students MUST be taught at their exact instructional level...like fountas and pinnell?
Laura - summer is almost here - good beach reading?
Cheryl - Ha! My daughter was the one who just came on under the name She-rah! That's Caroline---the one on whom the article was based. She's proud that her experiences have stimulated discussion for us all tonight.
bluebird - To all you four block fans... I hope your school year ending is smooth a
EV in CA - Katharine - That's what I was thinking
teach/1st - I had a feeling that She-rah might be related Cheryl, how precious!!
Laura - She-rah - does your mom cook? lol
mouse/Texas - my district is heavy into fountas and pinnell. Though they recommend Cheryl's phonics books. So I gently suggest that they look at Patricia's other stuff as well.
teach/1st - You are a dedicated teacher we are thankful to have your expertise
Mary K&1 - Could she-rah give us some words of advice?
Cheryl - Y'all, I'm having a heck of a time staying on tonight. I've been booted 3 times!
Lynn/VA/1st - Mouse, can't you pull students who are having difficulty with the same strategy and use books that are at the lower level child's ability even if you have higher readers?? Does that make sense?? Anyone know what i am trying to say??
micteach - Cheryl..I think many of us were touched by that story. I was looking at some of my readers after I read it and realized that none of them would have come as far with ability grouping.
Katharine - Cheryl, I think you're great. Just wanted you to know that -- despite all my questions! you've been a boon to children in ways you'll never even know!
Barb - For self selected reading, do you try to limit students' choices to encourage reading at an appropriate level?
she-rah - my mom cooked dinner tonight
mouse/Texas - Lynn, I guess I could, but I don't see why? Honestly. I mean so what if we spend 10 minutes on little word inside the big word on Monday....and for some kids it's a review. Does it hurt them to hear it again? That confuses me.
Laura - She-rah - she's better than me.
Cheryl - Mic, I just hadn't realized how tramatic grouping could be to children. I glad to have found out.
micteach - We did KFC at my house tonight..
Kathleen - Hi, Jackie! We're talking about alternatives to "ability" grouping for reading instruction
Laura - Cheryl - we're glad too!
teach/1st - Thanks again Cheryl for your dedication
Kathy/5/IA - Screen seems frozen .. just checking.
mouse/Texas - Lynn: I have always just gone around listening to pairs/individuals read, helping them with the strategies they need to use. But for mini-lesson I give it to the whole class
Cheryl - I'm really proud that Caroline allowed me to tell her story across the country. I hope it'll help someone, somewhere.
bluebird - We talked about teachers as readers the other day in staff meeting. Thinking back to what grouping was like in my own elementary days has been an insight. Thanks for having this, Teachers.net!
micteach - I am really hoping to have the Title ! teachers in my building join me for their time with my kids next year so we can do away with 1/2 my kids leaving me
she-rah - i guess the only thing to say is look at a child for there creativity and not the way they test...the ones that dont get things as fast are the ones that need the most help and support
Kathleen - Cheryl, thank you for sharing your time and expertise. Teachers.Net looks forward to many more sessions like this :-)
EV in CA - I agree with ability grouping. I've been doing a combination of things. I had a 1/2 and it seemed that it was almost easier for me to do it individually. Do you realize how little teaching time that means for each student.
Laura - My masters program used f/p as a bible. Imagine my surprise when it really didn't work that well for my student population. Clumping them in ability groups was doing them more harm then good in my humble opinion. I also find I have less discipline problems this year.
micteach - some of them consider themselves less smart because they go to a special reading class
teach/1st - Don't forget poetry is good to use for "below grade level " reading
mouse/Texas - Ah, She-Rah... look for what the child CAN do, right?
Cheryl - Thanks for joining me and She-rah (Caroline) tonight! See you all on the mailring---and let me hear from you about the articles. I like reactions and comments.
micteach - I have used poetry all year for that Teach and it has been great.. I really think that it has been a reading boast
mouse/Texas - Laura: it seems to be an awful lot of work leveling kids and teaching to exact little skills and I just don't see the point.
Barb - teach--i have found poetry to be one of the best confidence builders for the poor reader
bluebird - We get together in my building to discuss the model and implementation... "Pat Chats" are good networking in-house. That support from folks trying helps us out.
Lynn/VA/1st - Mouse I do that too. In RR they tell you to concentrate on meaning visual and phonemes. Group kids according to this instead of the reading level. I haven't fully gotten this yet and how to do tyhis with flex grouping. Am I rambling??
she-rah - yes...what they can do...and what you can do to help them do it........good night...thank you mom
mouse/Texas - Lynn but RR is one child at a time, isn't it? I think that's different. I think so. What do youthink?
Laura - mouse - i also found i needed more busy work to keep the kids busy while i worked with the small group.
Laura - well said she-rah.
bluebird - She-rah, thanks.... keep telling your story... folks need to hear it.
Lynn/VA/1st - Our RR teachers do literacy groups as well with 5-6 students and teach to the strategies.
micteach - Laura we have no time for busy work anymore.
mouse/Texas - But curriculum coord. said we shouldn't do "hit or miss" with students. But I catch a lot of individual problems in conferences and stuff
nat2 - At our school we do a reading group called Early Success. You do group the kids according to reading levels. It works well, but there are so many different levels of reading skills that you have some in 1 group that get left behind.
Cheryl - Hope to see you all along the way! Good night! Special love and thanks to Caroline!
Laura - The teachers think I'm crazy, but I don't want to waste one precious minute this year!
micteach - Yes.. and no more grading those meaningless papers
Laura - Goodnight Cheryl and thank you.
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