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Mary K&1 - Good Evening, Welcome to Teachers.Net's monthly Reading Recovery Meeting. Tonight we will be discussing ending up the year and all that goes into it and anything else that comes up.
Mary K&1 - How are your 2nd Rounders coming along?
Sadie - Mary, I just returned from being off track. I am on lesson 2 (tomorrow) with 2 of my kids and only in week 5 with the other.
kinderkate - I just finished RAK with my first 2nd rounder.
Mary K&1 - Sadie, i see ... i guess you're in quite a different place than us trad. year people
kinderkate - OK - I am having a problem with a child that I want to discontinue. Is there anything called "SLOW fluency"?
Sadie - Mary, i personally love year-round as a mom of a toddler... but I think it is terrible for our RR kids.
kinderkate - This student is doing everything, but he reads sooo slowly.
Sadie - kinder, how is the child's oral language?
Mary K&1 - Kinderkate, I think I know what you are talking about - I've seen it many times
Doug - Do you use lots of WrightGoup rythm books
Mary K&1 - Kinder, does he do everything slowly? I mean, does he even walk and talk in slow mo?
kinderkate - His oral language is where it should be. But his teacher says it takes him forever to do anything.
maestra - Multitract.....! I've disc. 2, but only have one grade 1[Spanish] class on my track I cannot type.......
Doug - kinderkate- do you use teaching for phrasing stuff found in the Guidebook
kinderkate - No not everything in slow motion. He's very active on the playground. And can carry on a fine conversation.
Doug - kiderkate- when you take a word to fluency, do you have races....kids love it
Sadie - Do you have him practice phrasing of the text during the book into?
kinderkate - No, haven't yet doug, but I will find it right now.
kinderkate - Yes we do practice phrasing, sometime we echo read and other times we alternate sentences, pages etc for modeling.
Mary K&1 - kinderkate, Mary Fried told us that beating on the table can help to get these kids moving - I do it and it does work, but I tell them that they soon have to start reading quickly on their own because my hand gets tired of beating on the table
Sadie - Book selection is soooo important for those kids too, Kate. Are you able to find texts that lend themselves to phrasing and fluency?
Sadie - I like that one, Mary!
Doug - kinderkate- try pushing using the sentence strip to a speed slightly above what he or she is doing
Sadie - Do you have time for the child to do a second reading for fluency of the new book, Kinderkate?
kinderkate - He's in level 12 and most of those books are PM's. I do use those kind during familiar reading, though, sadie. Hey, Mary, I will try that.
kinderkate - I don't quite understand, doug.
Mary K&1 - Sometimes reading slowly is a bad habit. Often you have to tell them that they are not allowed to read that slowly any more, then beat on the table to prompt them to speed up.
Sadie - Kinder, those pm's are great but you could try using other kinds of texts too. We should be varying our choices anyway to keep the children flexible.
kinderkate - No, Sadie, he is so slow that I go overtime anyway.
Doug - kinderkate - my TL thinks that PM's are a little basally and you should use some other text with rhyme and repetition...Ten Little Bears (level 11 I think) etc.
maestra - but I can read....! I've tried the table beating. You can tell what the home life is like...
kinderkate - Hm - right, maybe he is just in a bad habit. I will try that mary.
Mary K&1 - kinderkate, I forgot to ask how he does on familiar texts - is he slow there also?
Doug - You push the word accross left to right using the sentence strip. It is in the guidebook in teaching for fluency and phrasing
kinderkate - Yes - I have that title, doug, but in the upper levels 80 percent of my titles are pms. Guess I need to get some more upper level books.
Sadie - kinder, check your leveling guide and then go through your own books. You probably have a lot of upper level trade books in your personal library.
Doug - kiderkate- cut the sentence up in phrases. I have seen the mast5ers echo for fluency and phrasing. You see it a lot from the New Zealand masters. They think fluency and phrasing is equivelant to good processing.
kinderkate - He is slow on everything in my room and in the classroom. Only time he speeds up is at recess. His teacher says he is the type that in the classroom you have to keep reminding what to do next.
Gigi/MO - How do we promote the use of expression besides modeling?!? One of my students reads fairly fluently but is very monotone!!!
Sadie - Kinder, can you take him right before recess? Maybe that'll motivate him to move faster!
Doug - kinderkate - do you use the prompt-read the punctuation
kinderkate - Actually I tried all different times. His best time is right after lunch when he has eaten and played for a while.
Mary K&1 - Gigi, lots of modeling and prompting to make it sound like talking, and of course, the use of a tape recorder so that they can hear themselves
Sadie - Gigi, the same suggestion I gave kinderkate... choose texts that lend themselves to fluency and phrasing and then have the child practice the expressiveness in phrasing during the book intro.
Doug - kinderkate- take him back two levels or until you can hear fluency
Gigi/MO - OK--Thanks, Mary and Sadie!!
kinderkate - Gigi - sometimes we echo read or if it is applicable the student will read the question and I the answer or vice/versa.
maestra - kinder, I wonder if slow could be a response to tasks that are too hard. Maybe do only known lessons at double time.
Sadie - good suggestion, doug.
kinderkate - Yes, these are all great suggesions. I am writing them down right now to try tomorrow. THANKS!!!!!!
Sadie - Maestra, good point. We had a trainer from the university do a site visit and she quipped.."it's Christmas every day in Reading Recovery"
Doug - Bette- you have been very quiet
Mary K&1 - kinderkate, if his familiar reading is also slow, I bet it's just a bad habit. Have you told him that he's not allowed to read that way any more?
Gigi/MO - KK--Is echo reading when the teacher reads a part of the text and then the child reads the same text again??
Mary K&1 - It sounds silly, but it works very often
kinderkate - Yes, gigi.
cass - How do you get new readers to start reading silently?
kinderkate - No, I haven't Mary Kay but I think that may work. Now that you say that, he MAY just be in a bad habit that I have encouraged.
Doug - Mary- good one. I love directness. I just told one today that if you think about the story your brain will feel better....she understood
Sadie - Cass, in my K class we call it noisy reading. I don't expect them to read silently. They need to practice the language and it is a good way for you to monitor them.
Mary K&1 - cass, don't force them to read silently too soon, it comes naturally, when they are processing successfully
Mary K&1 - Beginning readers must read out loud when they are learning how to read
Sadie - kinder, I was reviewing some of my records from last year (training year) and I was able to pinpoint where I MAKING the child slow and wanting tolds.
kinderkate - Is someone encouraging you to have a quieter classroom, cass?
Doug - Is anyone following their little ones into the class and doing a guided reading lesson with them in the group. I found this very informative and good for getting them ready to discontinue. anyone else?
Mary K&1 - Do all of you have random sample kids that you test at the beginning of the year and also at the end?
cass - No, but it is getting near to the end of the year, and I'm trying to wean them off.
kinderkate - Do you mean for the scantrons, Mary.
Mary K&1 - Doug, I wish I could, but my schedule doesn't allow for this
Sadie - Yes, Mary, and i don't know HOW I'm going to get them all done! We have a short year to begin with... only 160 days!
kinderkate - What grade cass?
Mary K&1 - Going into the classroom, I mean
Mary K&1 - Sadie, where are you?
cass - Kinderkate, 1st grade.
Nan - Our school only does a random sample at the end of the year.
Mary K&1 - Kinderkate, yes
maestra - anyone out there DLL mutittrack, inner city teacher?
Nan - cass, I have my kids whisper read and it helps them make the transition to reading in their head.
kinderkate - We only did scantrons on our program kids. But I think that is because we are Teachers in Training. I think the others at the school did more.
Sadie - Mary, I'm in southern california.
kinderkate - Yes - TIME - is the problem. I'm trying to get my lessons down to 35 minutes.
Mary K&1 - maestra, not me, I'm in rural PA
Doug - maestra- believe it or not, it is against the law in California...please stop laughing
Sadie - Nan, you didn't do an early sample? how do you get a baseline for your random samples? (Not that I'm not envious that you are only doing the end of the year....!)
kinderkate - I am multitrack inner city.
Gigi/MO - Thanks Doug!! Mary, I have 3 RS this year but 2 of them went into RR!!
kinderkate - Oh shoot, maestra you know that. Maestra and I teach at the same school.
Mary K&1 - Sadie, I never heard of such a short year!
Nan - Sadie, I'm really not sure if it is the size of site we have or what, but we only have 8 random samples this year--last year we didn't have any.
Doug - kinderkate- i am still working on only one teaching point. I want to solve the world's problems all in one lesson
Sadie - Mary, it is crazy! We have a state waiver where our day is longer and our year is shorter. It really short changes the RR kids.
Nan - I guess we are looking for what level the kids are on at the end of the year.
kinderkate - OH man, Sadie - that is NOT good for RR.
Doug - Sadie- sounds weird. come down the hill to my district
Sadie - kinder, last year my lessons ALL went over. This year I hardly ever do... sometimes I even finish early. I think I'm making better book selections and then (as Doug said) focusing on only one powerful teaching point.
Doug - the goddess at our school is on third round
Mary K&1 - Nan, that's a good question. I've heard so many different answers. It seems that levels is a local thing, in my area we want them to test out at L16 at least
kinderkate - What is illegal in California, DLL? We have DLL at our school in CA.
Sadie - Doug....... how?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Mary K&1 - Doug, I'm the goddess in my school - but then again I'm the only RR teacher
Sadie - kinder, you have to have parental consent for any instruction in spanish. Isn't that how it works, Doug?
kinderkate - And what do you use to test, Mary. We use the scott/foresman testing packet.
Nan - Yes Mary and this year we really want to test out at 18
Doug - kinderkate - i wish we did. Our district took the law to the maximum this year. it is a shame because of all our NeP's
Mary K&1 - Doug, go a head and tell everyone how - I think that everyong in Doug's school is a RR teachers
Doug - Sadie- i know. I ask myself that . She is just good, really good
kinderkate - What?? I'm lost.
susan/2nd/ny - Thanks mary...we are having RR for the first time in Sept. We can't fit 4 kids in the half day...is it ok just to take 3 kids?
Sadie - Well, Mary... I'm hoping to have really good progress next year as I will be serving the kids from my own class this year (Kindergarten model)......my kids will have the early behaviors under control if it kills me!!!!!
kinderkate - NOT in our district, susan. We have to have a waiver - and none are given in training year.
Mary K&1 - susan, I'm told that you can do that ONLY if you are fully implemented
susan/2nd/ny - The problem is that the rr teacher won't have time for a 40 min prep and she is doing rr in the PM
Doug - Susan- yes but your TL needs to get the ok from Ohio state
kinderkate - YES Sadie - but remember you will get your lowest kids.
susan/2nd/ny - what does it mean to be fully implemented?
Nan - What 40 minute prep?
Sadie - susan, I think you must do 4 in training year. I am in my second year and only doing 3 because of time constraints. (My teaching partner is in training and usually has to work right through lunch to get everthing done)
susan/2nd/ny - All teachers have a 40 min prep (break daily)
Doug - Susan- that is why you are getting the overtime. to compensate the lack of prep time
maestra - Reading the brain research on how children learn language and reading for speakers of languages other than English is illeagle for voters to read befor voting!!!????
susan/2nd/ny - There would be a violation with the union
Nan - does it have to be in the am?
Mary K&1 - susan, she just won't have a prep, that is how it is for me - no prep time
kinderkate - A 40 minute pred every day??
Sadie - I know, kinder but I already know who my kids will be (unless someone moves in in the meantime!)
susan/2nd/ny - the union won't go for that...problem!
kinderkate - What part of NY, susan?
Mary K&1 - susan, why can't she have her prep in the AM
Sadie - Doug, we get no overtime! You do? How much?
susan/2nd/ny - Because in the AM she is teaching a second grade class and it is prime learning time
Doug - Sadie- after taxes....50 cents LOL
Nan - Doug is just kidding--Teachers getting overtime???
Sadie - prep? What's that?! overtime...? What's that?
kinderkate - lol maestra.
Nan - LOL Doug
susan/2nd/ny - Long Island kinder
Doug - Nan- we do get overtime if we teach Kindergarten
Gigi/MO - That's a good one, Doug!!
kinderkate - Wow - how long is your day, year? susan
Nan - Lucky to get a bathroom break here
Mary K&1 - susan, RR is improtant, something will have to change
susan/2nd/ny - Why do they insist that she see 4 students...after 20 weeks they get new kids anyway
kinderkate - Is anyone having trouble discontinuing ELL students. And are all of you using the Scot/Foresman testing packet?
susan/2nd/ny - 180 days 8:40-2:40
Mary K&1 - susan, the cost of the program needs at least 4 to justify
Sadie - susan, in training it is important to see as many kids as possible so that you can have a broader understanding of the difficulties you may encounter.
susan/2nd/ny - If the district pays for the training what's the problem with 3 kids? That way the rr can go slowly
kinderkate - How long is lunch, susan?
Nan - My Ell kids are doing pretty good. We use the scott/foresman testing books.
susan/2nd/ny - But Mary...3 kids are better then no kids...which we have now!
Gigi/MO - KK--What is ELL? I use the SF testing packet!! Isn't that what everyone uses? Do we have a choice?
kinderkate - You really have to check with the university that provides your RR training, susan. They know/make all the rules.
susan/2nd/ny - we get one hour except for 20 days of duty and then we have a half hour
Nan - The students I am having trouble with in ELL will more than likely be referred next at the beginning of the year
susan/2nd/ny - I see..so the rules depend on the university...not national rules
kinderkate - ELL= English Language Learners. Those children who have another first language.
Mary K&1 - susan, you need to have this discussion with the site's Teacher Leader - she/he will know what you can and can't do
Sadie - susn, when the structure of the program is changed the integrity can be in jeopardy.
susan/2nd/ny - Sadie...I understand this BUT if the schedule won't allow it there must be some flexibility
Doug - Gigi- its English language learners. It shows that the glass is half full rather than deficient such as the NEP, LEP terminology
Sadie - one hour lunch? forty minutes prep? wow1 We go from 8:15 to 2:50.... no prep.... 40 minute lunch! I'm moving to ny!
susan/2nd/ny - We were told that the cost to train is $15,000. per teacher! I doubt the integrity will be in jepopardy
susan/2nd/ny - Sadie...we are getting a new contract...may have 20 mins more next year
Doug - Sadie- truth is if you get into the leadership committee you can write your school plan to say anything you want. Not to be too political.....
kinderkate - I don't know what to say, susan, except that you day is so much shorter than ours and any other that I know. RR was developed to fit into a longer day.
susan/2nd/ny - I guess the rr teacher will need to work this out with the administration
Mary K&1 - My day goes from 7:40 - 3:10, a 30 min. lunch and 4 30 min preps per week in the AM when I'm teaching Kindergarten
Doug - Sadie- try parking in NYC
Nan - Gigi-our Ell stands for Early Literacy Learning--groups of five using the components of RR
susan/2nd/ny - Mary..who teachers the k class in the PM?
Sadie - susan, you may want to visit the RR website. http://www.readingrecovery.org (I think is the address) and maybe you can contact someone who can help you.
susan/2nd/ny - Doug...I am not in manhattan
Nan - The Arkansas model--has any read Apprenticeship to Literacy?
Sadie - doug... I'll buy a bike!
susan/2nd/ny - Thanks Sadie...I think I was there but will go again
Mary K&1 - there is no kinder class in the PM in the room where I work - we only have 3 sections of Kindergarten in my school, they change to 4 sections of first grade
Doug - Nan- I love it. I just don't like the idea that interactive writing can only be done in small groups. i like whole class
maestra - What is your criteria for ELL students becoming RR program students?
cherokee - Nan, is that where you can get the info on the Arkansas Model
Sadie - Also, susan, contact whatever university is doing your training. They should be able to help you.
Nan - You can do it with whole group--
Sadie - Mary, how many in your kinder classes? Doug, same question.
Doug - Nan- maybe I read too much into it.
kinderkate - I don't know, Maestra, we haven't been given any criteria.
Nan - The book was written by Linda Dorn who teaches the Arkansas model. she is in Little Rock
susan/2nd/ny - I'm not doing RR...I will be sharing my second grade class with the rr teacher and the other half day I'll be a technology mentor
Sadie - hi brock. Are you a Reading Recovery teacher?
Doug - 20...or 19.5
Mary K&1 - I've had 19 - 28, depending upon the year
Mary K&1 - Nan, I just got that book, but haven't had time to read it yet - probably won't until this summer
brock - No but i have heard of this program sadie
Doug - Mary- its a great book
Gigi/MO - I was fortunate enough to hear Linda Dorn speak in Texas and in MO!!
brock - Sdaie can you give me a very brief overview
Mary K&1 - Doug, you never seem to have any problems, how long have you been doing RR?
kinderkate - Remember - I am a teacher in training - why is it that the scott-foresman testing booklets are so much harder than the books we use every day. It seems that the levels don't match.
Nan - Well Doug, I don't have a regular classroom, but I do it with my EL kids and I do go into a classroom one day a week. I did see L. Dorn and she can explain with the use of centers and great organizational skills --she has wonderfull ideas!!
Nan - Also, my district appears to leaning back to small group instruction
Sadie - brock, it is a first grade intervention for the lowest kids in the class. The idea is to catch them and get them back to the average of their class. We work on-on-one with the kids and the program is very individualized. The idea is that early intervention is far more powerful than remediation.
Gigi/MO - Susan--How much is your RR training?
cherokee - kinderkate, once they learn the skills, they should be able to apply them to anything they read.
susan/2nd/ny - I was told that it is $15,000.00 to train one teacher
Mary K&1 - kinderkate, I think that the story lines a strange - kind of old or something - the kids can't grasp the meaning of the stories
Doug - 2nd year and yes I have problems. I don't want to open the cans of worms. Absences, poor parent involvement, ist grade teachers who think they don't have to teach them once they are in RR. Yes I have problems, many of them
Mary K&1 - especially at the higher levels - like the one about a human and the dog and the chickens
brock - Any research or follow-up available on the outcomes of this interventions Sadie
kinderkate - I agree, cherokkee and Mary. From what I understand in New Zealand they don't use the testing packets.
Sadie - kinder, it is hard when you are working with a child and they test out at a lower level. however, I have also had the opposite happen. I had a child at 14 and she discontinued at 18!
Gigi/MO - I thought that is what you said earlier!! Our training here in MO is around $6000!!
Nan - oh doug--are you getting tired of your first grade teachers too?
Mary K&1 - or how about the one with the mouse in the jungle, or the one about the sun, boy are they wierd stories
cherokee - I find the I have to do a lot of explaining to the children because they lack background information
susan/2nd/ny - Wow Gigi...what a difference in price
Sadie - Gigi, ours is aroung that too (plus materials))
susan/2nd/ny - i Suppose everything is more expensive in NY!
kinderkate - My first grade teachers are EXcellent. Both have recently leveled all of their books on RR levels.
susan/2nd/ny - That include materials
Doug - nan- i am trying to stay positive.
Nan - you are lucky kinder!!
susan/2nd/ny - Well, it should be interesting how they work this schedule problem out
Sadie - brock, go to http://www.readingrecovery.org There is a lot of research available, brock
kinderkate - Yes, very lucky.
Nan - Me too Doug--but sometimes I feel beaten--Older teachers who don't welcome new curriculum
Doug - Sadie- yes it is a good site- did you join yet
kinderkate - Yes, susan - I have heard of some schools that hire a part time teacher to relieve the RR teachers.
Gigi/MO - Susan--Ours included the materials also!!
Sadie - Doug, there is one class in our school where NO kids are discontinuing. The RR teachers are really good too. What does that tell you?
Mary K&1 - Well next month at this time I'll be scrambling to get everything put together for Records Collection day, which will be that same week!!
maestra - I am in my 4th year of DLL teaching and have only had positive experiences with my teachers i serve.
Sadie - yes, doug. I also joined the mailserv that was posted here one day.
susan/2nd/ny - When do they relieve them Kinder?
kinderkate - We, Maestra and I, have the advantage of working at a school where the teachers have had much literacy training including ELIC and First Steps.
susan/2nd/ny - By next month this will be worked out....will let you know the outcome
Gigi/MO - Mary--Me too, I think!! I'm turning in my info on May 25!!
Nan - Will there be a meeting next month?
kinderkate - I think the part time teacher goes from class to class to give the teachers the extra time they need. I don't know exactly what she does but it probably the same thing in each class.
Gigi/MO - Susan--Please do!! We'd be interested in hearing how it works out!!
Mary K&1 - There's so much to do, before this meeting I was working on my longitudinal stuff, do you all have to do that?
kinderkate - Yes, Susan, let us know. And I will let you know if my 'slowpoke' discontinues!!!!!!!
Nan - no longitudinal study in our district
kinderkate - Sorry - longitudinal???
susan/2nd/ny - Do you understand the problem? The RR will be teaching grade 2 from 8:40 to 11 AM...then the kids have lunch form 11-12 and then I get the class for the PM
kinderkate - Sounds too much like math to me.
susan/2nd/ny - The kids have 2 teachers. I don't think parents would be happy with the kids having a third teacher to relieve the rr teacher
Gigi/MO - Mary--What is a Long. Study?!?!
susan/2nd/ny - That's why I came up with the idea of her just working with 3 rr kids in the PM...that way she can have her prep
Mary K&1 - We have to track all of your RR students through 6th grade to see if they have needed any further intervention - we also record their standardized test reading scores
susan/2nd/ny - anyway...you don't need to get involved in our domestic problems...sorry!
kinderkate - So, susan, a partime teacher could go into each 2d grade class for a portion of the morning. No that won't work because that would mean those kids would see three teachers a day.
Mary K&1 - susan, what do you do in the AM?
Gigi/MO - Susan--How long do you go in the afternoon?
susan/2nd/ny - I've been racking my brains out trying to figure this out and was HOPING that somehere had just 3 kids!
susan/2nd/ny - Mary, I will be going to 4 elementary schools in the morning to be a technology mentor
Bear - Anyone do you have any RR volunteers and how aare they working out
kinderkate - Will you be taking more than one class of 2 graders in the pm, susan.
maestra - very interesting experience, kinder! I can read sooo much faster than write . Adios, all.
susan/2nd/ny - afternoon is 12-2:40
kinderkate - Not during the first year, susan. Waivers are made AFTER the training year.
susan/2nd/ny - No, one second grade class (the one I'm sharing with the rr)
kinderkate - RR volunteers, Bear? In what capacity?
kinderkate - Adios, maestra. Thanks for being here.
Mary K&1 - One of my RR kids (a different one each day)miss recess. Your RR teacher could start teaching at 11:30, 30 min is enough time for a child to eat a lunch, isn't it?
susan/2nd/ny - It would be UNFAIR to the second grade class to give them a prep (art, music, etc) in the AM Prime Learning Time, and it would shorten my tech time
susan/2nd/ny - That is true, but she is entitled to an hour lunch! Union problem
Gigi/MO - Our students only have 20 min. scheduled for lunch--and the teachers too!!
Bear - Kinder, in San Diego we're training volunteers it is an intensive training. It takes some of the weight off the teachers.
kinderkate - That would mean the teacher wouldn't get her/his hour lunch. I still can't get over the daily schedule. No school that I know of has that short of a day.
susan/2nd/ny - I suppose if they pay her for the half hour lunch the union would go for it BUT I don't know if the rr will agree to just one half hour lunch
Mary K&1 - susan, an hour lunch and a 40 min prep, doesn't leave much teaching time! How do you folks get everything done?
kinderkate - Well, Bear, I could use something to take the weight off. Oh you're not talking about dieting - sorry. Actually I am in SD also, Bear. Who is your TL, elena or billie?
susan/2nd/ny - kinder..even with the shorter day I am EXHAUSTED at the end of the day
susan/2nd/ny - The kids are too hyper to learn anymore anyway...the afternoons are very difficult
Gigi/MO - Susan--So you have a 6 hour day!?!
susan/2nd/ny - Not just me...many teachers in LI
Mary K&1 - Well folks, I must get back to my work - it's been great, see you next month.
kinderkate - Our teachers go 6hr 20 min, 15 minute recess, 30 minute lunch, 1 one hour prep each week.
Gigi/MO - Sorry--That's what I meant--your school!!
susan/2nd/ny - Thanks for everything Mary..
susan/2nd/ny - We have a great union
Gigi/MO - Bye Mary!! Thanks for you time keeping this running!!
susan/2nd/ny - BUT...I think our day will be longer by 20 mins in Sept
kinderkate - Well this has been very informative. Thank all of you for suggestions. Thank you, mary , for hosting. Bye all
