Sarah Plain And Tall

Teachers.Net Book Talk June 12, 1998

Sarah, Plain
And Tall

by Patricia MacLachlan

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On June 12, 1998, a group of teachers convened in the Teachers.Net Conference Room to discuss the book "Sarah Plain And Tall" by Patricia MacLachlan. Their discussion has been recorded here for your information and pleasure....

A supplemental CyberGuide for Sarah Plain and Tall developed as part of the Schools of California Online Resources for Educators (SCORE) Project, funded by the California Technology Assistance Program (CTAP). SCORE: Sarah Plain and Tall

Kathleen - Has anyone here read the book, Sarah, Plain and Tall?
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Yes, I reread it this afternoon. :)
Luanne/VA - I read it with my third graders.
Sandy/TX - I have to admit that I have not.
Luanne/VA - Jimmie, have you seen the video?
Jimmie/TX/ESL - It's been quite a while since I've seen the video.
Kathleen - Is there a video Sarah, Plain and Tall?
Luanne/VA - Yes. and a sequel--Skylark
Kathleen - Did your students enjoy the book?
Luanne/VA - I use it every year-they all like it.
Kathleen - Do the boys like it as much as the girls do?
Luanne/VA - Yes, we use it as one of our novels.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - I haven't used it in class yet. But I would imagine that the boys would like it about as much as the girls. I think that the topic of two children hoping they'll be loved by a prospective mother would be universal.
Kathleen - Have you used it with a class that included child/ren who had lost a mother? If so, what was the reaction?
Luanne/VA - No, sorry I haven't.
Kathleen - I'm wondering if I would use the book with a class knowing that a child had lost his/her mother, but I guess it would be good for the child
Kathleen - I haven't read the book yet, I've read reviews that say it is a perfect novel...what do you think leads reviewers to use that kind of praise??
Kathleen - Well, Jimmie, tell me about the story :-)
Jimmie/TX/ESL - OK, a man and his two children live on the prairie.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Anna remembers her little brother, Caleb, being born. Her mom handed Caleb to her and said, "Isn't he beautiful, Anna?"
Jimmie/TX/ESL - The next morning, her mother died. And people came and carried her mother off in a wagon to be buried.
Kathleen - Oh, death from childbirth, such a sad thing for the child to know of later
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Caleb is always asking Anna to tell what she remembers about their mother.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Yes, it is. So he just pumps his sister for information. Having her go over the same stories again and again.
Kathleen - How old was Anna when her mother died?
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Anna tells Caleb that their mom used to sing. But Anna can't remember the songs. Caleb says that if Anna could remember the songs, maybe he could remember their mother, too. :( So sad.
Kathleen - Sounds heart wrenching.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - It doesn't say how old she was. But they are now both old enough to go to school. She was old enough to hold Caleb the day he was born, so I imagine she was several years older, not just a couple of years.
Kathleen - When does Sarah come in?
Jimmie/TX/ESL - One day, Papa tells the kids that he advertised for a mail order bride and that he received a response.
Kathleen - Were the children accepting of the idea from the first?
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Sarah, is the lady that answered the advertisement. Her brother has gotten married and she feels she needs to move.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - She's lives by the sea in Maine. The children are very accepting. Not only accepting, extremely hopeful and excited.
Kathleen - So, Sarah was a nurtureer..her brother until he didn't need her,and then this family
Kathleen - Sounds as though there is a lot of story to Sarah..leaving the ocean to go to the prairie must have been a huge adjustment
Jimmie/TX/ESL - And she didn't want to interfere with her sister-in-law having her own house.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - A very huge adjustment. She brought her cat with her and collection of sea shells. She talked wistfully of the sea. The agreement was that she stay one month. If things worked out, then she would marry Papa and stay.
Tina2 - Hi there Kathleen and Jimmie, I love the book Sarah, Plain and Tall. I have used the book in my 4th and 5th grade classes
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Sarah is quite an independent woman, Kathleen. And she has interests that were not typical for women at the time.
Tina2 - I've integrated a lot of social studies using this literature
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Sarah, learns to plow, ride a horse, drive a wagon. She gathers flowers, brings candles from town.
Kathleen - Jimmie, what interests?
Kathleen - JJ, Yolanda couldn't make it tonight, so jimmie is "carrying the ball"..glad you made it!
Shelley - Did you all like the book?
Kathleen - Jimmie is an excellent storyteller ;-)
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Well, the kids asked her questions about could she cook and stuff like that. She answered that she could, but that she preferred carpentry.
Kathleen - Did the kids like her from the first, or not because of her unconventional ways?
Tina2 - There is a sequel to the book also, called Skylark
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Shelley, I love the book. I haven't used it in my class before. But for the life of me I don't know why. LOL
JJ - I love the book! And also the movies with Glenn Close.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - I haven't read Skylark, Tina. Is that as good as this one?
Tina2 - Has anyone used the book in their class?
kps - I found a web site for sarah - the kids write a letter on line, then can print or e-mail it.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - It's been a while since I saw the movies, but they were beautifully done.
kps - Tina - I teach 4th - I start the year with it.
Shelley - I guess I will be the "odd man out" tonight. I really didn't enjoy the book. It seemed to be really a slow read to me. I am not sure why...
Kathleen - kps, do you know the url, or we could do a search for it
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Cool, kps! Sounds interesting.
JJ - What kinds of things do yo do with the book, kps?
kps - shelley - i agree - it's not my favorite, but perfect for the kids to get used to lit.
Kathleen - Shelley, do you think it was the setting, the era, the writing??
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Shelley, I felt that way the first couple of times I read it. But I've changed.
kps - I bookmarked it on my computer at school :( sorry!!! I found it from a search on infoseek.
Shelley - It is a pretty easy read. Any we did watch the movie and compare the differences.
Kathleen - Jimmie, why do you keep reading it..do you like to re-read books, even if they don't strike you at first?
Kathleen - kps, then we'll be able to find it too, thanks!
kps - We write a personal narrative about being in a storm - I get good writing from it for the beginning of the year!!!!
Tina2 - I teach geography with it. Compare and contrast. And since Skylark takes place in Maine through most of the book it works well with the first book.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Well, I read it once because I'd heard so much about it. I reread it when the movies came out. Then I reread it for the booktalk.
Shelley - I think the idea of mail order bride is very intriguing. Maybe it just needed a bit more plot to it..
Kathleen - Shelley, did your students find it "slow" (the book)
kps - drawing works well with it too
Kathleen - Oh, so the sequel takes the family to Maine?
Kathleen - kps, how do you use drawing with the book?
JJ - Havn't read Skylark, how does it compare to the movie?
Shelley - My students really enjoyed discussing the idea of a mail order bride. But the book didn't seem to keep their interest like some others of done. (Shiloh, Bridge to Terebithia etc.)
kps - I use drawing as a way to teach main idea - they draw the prarie, or things that Sarah would have written about to her brother.
Tina2 - The sequel takes the kids and Sarah to Maine after a storm and drought destroy the family home on the plain
Kathleen - kps, that sounds like a motivating and helpful activity
kps - Shelley - the book is a quick read though - that helps.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - The action did move rather slowly. The focus in the book was the children wanting Sarah to stay, but being afraid that she missed the sea too much to stay. Caleb was looking so hard for any signs that she would stay. They new they had one month trial.
Kathleen - uh,oh, are you telling me that the father doesn't go to Maine?? He dies?
Tina2 - We also did letter writing activities with the book and drawing with pastels of our homes in FL.
kps - There are LOTS of thematic units that you can buy on it.
kps - Kathleen - relax!!! it has a happy ending!!!
Shelley - Yep. It is a quick read and there are some ideas in it that can be good discussion items. (kids without a mom, a woman that is very independent etc.)
Kathleen - What ages are the students with whom you have used this book?
kps - I use reader's theatre for the first few pages, then discuss Caleb.
Tina2 - Has anyone used the tape of the story read by Glenn Close? She read it with a New England accent that my students really enjoyed.
Shelley - I have used it in my 4th grade class
kps - Tina - I would like to get that!
Jimmie/TX/ESL - There's really a lot of positives about the book. I tried to find the tape at my public library today. Checked out. :(
Kathleen - We don't have an accent in New England ;-)
Tina2 - I also found that my kids with step parents could really relate to the characters
Kathleen - Ah, Tina, that's interesting..about the step children..
Shelley - My kids LOVE to read dialogue! They learn quotation marks quickly and narrator parts too. They always want a book with lots of parts!
kps - I wrote an "open response" test item for it a couple of weeks ago for a workshop (open response is BIG in KY...)
Tina2 - We don't have an accent in the south either LOL
Kathleen - Sheley, do they like to act out the stories with dialogue, do readings?
JJ - How did the test go, kps?
kps - ah uah (is that how she says it????)
Kathleen - yes, y'aawl do have an accent in the south ;-)
Shelley - Being one of those kids (one without a mom and then also a stepkid) I was able to speak to the kids about those challenges in life...
Kathleen - That is the downeast Maine accent, ayuh
Tina2 - After we have read both stories I have the students watch the movies and we compare and contrast.
kps - we'll find out this fall - they have to decide if they agree if Sarah is not mild mannered, and support it with examples from the story.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - No, Kathleen, *we* don't have the accent. ;)
Shelley - They like to act out parts and they get very good at putting the correct emotion into the characters part!
Kathleen - Shelley, so maybe the book had trouble living up to the real drama you have experienced??
Jimmie/TX/ESL - And this book has lots of opportunity for children to act out the emotions of the characters. It's a "relationship" book in a way.
Kathleen - What do your students say about books compared to the movie versions?
Shelley - Possibly... That may be it..It seemed to work out too easily..
kps - have you ever wanted to cut the kids hair and see if the birds take it??? (joke)
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Shelley, I can imagine that with your experiences, your students really get a better feel for this novel.
Tina2 - It is very much a relationship book, and a book about feelings of abandonment, guilt, fear of rejection
Kathleen - Do you ever have students who say "the book was better"?
Shelley - My students have said on every book/movie comparison so far that the book was better! As a test item I have them explain why.
kps - we always talk about that...
Kathleen - but the kids hair and seen if the birds take it?????? tell me about that reference
Tina2 - My students found that some of the more minor characters are protrayed differently in the movie.
Kathleen - WOW! Shelley, that's encouraging, that they like the book better!!
Jimmie/TX/ESL - kps, :) I thought about nests of soft hair this afternoon and wondered if the birds would really use it. LOL
Kathleen - Shelley, how do they explain why?
kps - Kathleen - Sarah cuts the boys hair and talks about looking for it in the birds nest - I always remember that, don't know why!!!!
Kathleen - I'll bet that hair in nests part really sticks with the kids, too
Shelley - We watch the movie following a book and then I have them write down at least 10 differences. They really spot them quickly. It is fun to watch their expression when something is different than the book. Then we talk about why a producer would change things. They come up with great ideas.
kps - I always hope that they will talk about the pictures in their mind being better... hard for some of these TV/VIDEO kids to do. That's why I read aloud to the class EVERY day!!!
kps - Shelley - we always talk about it - I like how you have them write it down.
Tina2 - My students were able to learn about the differences in the "sea" in FL and the sea that Sarah talks about in Maine. The movie Skylark was good to actually see the location
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Sarah is very much an animal lover. Very much. When the neighbors bring her chicken to raise and eat, Sarah gives them names. Anna says that she knows the chickens won't be for eating. Sarah cries when she finds a dead lamb and yells at the buzzard flying overhead.
Kathleen - How old are your students, kps, Shelley, Tina (for the record)
Shelley - When they explain why they liked the book best, they usually say the character in their mind was different than the movie, that more things happened in the movie and they liked the details
Kathleen - So, Jimmie, what does the family eat??
kps - Tina - being in KY, my kids have trouble with both settings - but this introduces them to it, and leads into KY history.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - And my kids will get to learn about the sea. Most of them have never seen it.
kps - Kathleen - 4th grade
Shelley - I teach 4th grade. 9 years to 11 in my classes
Tina2 - The students I used the book with are 4th graders and I also used it one year in 5th
Jimmie/TX/ESL - LOL!!! Kathleen, Sarah fixes stew. But it never says where she gets meat.
Tina2 - kps, I had the students research the plains and Maine
Kathleen - Probably tofu chunks in the stew ;-)
kps - good idea Tina
Kathleen - The next time you use the book, you could post on the chatboard for cards from Maine and the plains
Shelley - Well I guess my answer got lost.. 4th grade students ages from 9-11
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Kathleen, you *slay* me, ROFL!
kps - LOL Jimmie!!!
Tina2 - I wish I could use it with my 2nd graders, 4th grade teachers would kill me. It's a 4th grade book
Kathleen - You all really have wonderful ideas and practices to accompany literature
kps - 4th grade teachers are evil aren't we???? :)
Jimmie/TX/ESL - And the way that the family makes a "dune" for Sarah to remind her of home is very touching.
Shelley - If my memory serves me right, there are a lot of metaphors in it. I think this is one of the skills I taught with this book. "The praire was a rolling sea."
Tina2 - I really miss the literature from 4th and 5th grade.
Shelley - Tina are your teacher possessive???
kps - I like how Sarah is a strong women character - we discuss that LOTs through the book.
Kathleen - ahhhhh, the metaphors of the rolling plains=the sea..neat way to introduce that to the kids
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Yes, lots of metaphor. Very nice ones.
kps - Tina - can you use it as a read aloud? I always tell the kids that books can be read more than once just like a video. Also, it's not like it ruins it like some books with surprise endings.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - She's a very strong woman. She helps Papa mend the roof before the squall. She wears overalls. The kids tell her that women don't wear overalls, and she says, "This woman does." I loved her spunk!
kps - Jimmie - I agree!!
Kathleen - How much of a problem is it that other teaches want to reserve a book as "theirs" for use teaching in the classroom?
Shelley - My kids compared this to the Little House on the Praire Series. Did anyone else's class?
Jimmie/TX/ESL - kps, you are very right. Many of the children may have seen the video before 4th or 5th anyway.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Good idea, Shelley! Hadn't thought of that.
kps - Kathleen - it can be
Kathleen - Did any of you get the feeling that some of your children yearned for the era depicted in the book?
Shelley - Taping a show of "Little House" might be a good intro to the setting!
Shelley - and characters
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Kathleen, it was a pretty big deal at my previous school. It's not done as vocally here, but we have boxes of class sets of books in our library labeled with a grade level.
Tina2 - We had to get that way. Teachers didn't know who was using what and some kids would end up reading the same book in three grade levels.
kps - Shelley - we have - I try to do 1 LH book a year (although, I hated Farmer Boy - I thought it would never end!!!)
Shelley - That would be frustrating for a teacher who made a unit, Tina
Jimmie/TX/ESL - That happens a lot if books aren't designated for a grade level. Some poor kids may hear/read Charlotte's Web every year from K-5. LOL
kps - Tina - I try to survey the kids at the first of the year, but it's still not fullproof.
Kathleen - could turn a kid off to bacon for sure
kps - I LOVE Charlotte - I still cry when she dies....
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Kathleen, LOL!
Shelley - Kathleen that is an interesting figure of speech! =)
Kathleen - Charlotte..one of the best stories ever
kps - where are you from Kathleen????
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Sarah, Plain and Tall is perfect for upper grades because of the social studies objectives at that grade level. That's probably why it's often "reserved" for those grades.
Kathleen - I'm from Connecticut
Tina2 - We have five of each grade level and with that many teachers sometimes it becomes hard to articulate across grade levels, My daughter read the book Charlottes Web three times and Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe in 4th 5th and 6th grade.
kps - that's overkill Tina!!!
Kathleen - Tina, I can see that there has to be more coordination to avoid that!
Tina2 - Sometimes when a book comes out and is popular and good everyone wants to read it
kps - I've only had 1 set of kids who could handle Lion... as a read aloud
Shelley - We take our students to an old time (original 1910) school house with the school marm (sp?) and all. They dress like this era, carry a lunch pail. This is the best time to do this book for me. The trip is one the 4th graders remember forever!
Jimmie/TX/ESL - It doesn't hurt children to have exposure to a book at a primary grade and then read it again at an intermediate grade. The class focus would be on different aspects of the book.
Shelley - I am considering doing Lion, Witch..Wardrobe this year. I will have 5th graders with reading level of 5.5 -9.1. Would this be a good book for them?
Jimmie/TX/ESL - But 3 years in a row is definitely a bit much!!!
Tina2 - Sarah, Plain and Tall fits in well with our Social Studies Curriculum and is on their reading level. I found that it was good to start kids out to read novels, not too intimidating and still has pictures
kps - I use the Accelerated Reader program as one part of my reading program.
Kathleen - Oh, Shelley, what a wonderful experience!!
kps - Shelley - our 5th graders read it.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Shelley, what a neat trip! When the book comes alive through a trip, it's a truly powerful thing. :)
Shelley - When you guys read a book, do you read it to them or do they read the book to you
Kathleen - My students are in kindergarten, so I read to them ;-)
Jimmie/TX/ESL - I used to have them read in partners or read in a group with me. But after this workshop I've been to, I think I'm going to require them to do more independent reading of assignments.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - And then I will spot check for oral reading to see who is having trouble.
Shelley - What did the workshop say that changed your mind?
Kathleen - Jimmie, your focus would be differenct from Shelley's, right? the language
Shelley - I would like to work on some literature circles if I can get an idea of how to make them work efficiently
kps - Jimmie - I missed something - tell me about the workshop
Jimmie/TX/ESL - We spent several days on reading workshop. About giving kids responisbility for their reading. Then to focus our attention on the lessons that stem from the reading. We looked at some research. I heard other teacher say that their children are more interested in reading than before.
Shelley - Using AR has been the single most effective tool I have used to motivate my students to read
kps - Jimmie - are the kids all reading separate books, or are they in small groups?
kps - Shelley - we use AR too - we also have the STAR program - it has helped focus the kids on their own reading levels.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - In reading workshop, you have about an hour block of time. 5-15 min. spent on a mini-lesson, 30 minutes of reading (during that time you pull together groups to focus on a lesson), and 15-20 minutes of sharing.
Shelley - We bought the STAR this year. That is what we used to decide which reading class to put them in next year.
Kathleen - Jimmie, the kids' 30 min of reading would be interrupted by meeting for a mini-lesson?
kps - I do daily silent reading, separate from my literature book
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Depends on the teacher, kps. Some teachers do independent reading with small groups in a novel study. Other teachers have small groups that work on the same book.
kps - Shelley - I like it - esp. the parent communication with it.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Yes, Kathleen, it would, but not every day. You would meet with one to two groups a day.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - The actual mini-lesson comes at the beginning of workshop. The other groups are a group of students with similar need for a particular skill.
kps - Shelley - how much do you ability group?
Kathleen - Do the kids ever ask for more time to read?
kps - Jimmie - is this like the Writer's Workshop approach?
Jimmie/TX/ESL - kps, that independent reading is so valuable!
Jimmie/TX/ESL - Kathleen, yes the kids have often asked for more time to read! :) kps, yes , very much like writer's workshop! :)
kps - Kathleen - not as much as I would like, but I'm hoping that next year will be better (I keep 12 of my kids from last year I had a multi-age class last year.)
Jimmie/TX/ESL - It's not an easy task to build up the ability for students to sustain their reading. Inundated as they are by TV, video games, etc., they don't develop very long attention spans. You have to build up to half an hour gradually.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - What happened to Shelley?
kps - Jimmie - I LOVE it!!! This year, I brought in my own book (not just kids lit) to read. I think it was good for the kids to see me reading "adult" books. (did that sound weird?????)
Kathleen - kps, that makes sense, to model the practice
kps - Jimmie - we did 20-25 - most of my kids could handle it.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - No, doesn't sound wierd. It's very important for our kids to see us as readers and writers.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - You're right, Kathleen. We wouldn't take cooking lessons from someone who only nuked TV dinners. LOL
Jimmie/TX/ESL - The district librarians were telling us about the books that have won Children's Choice Awards. Children vote on their favorites. Often they are quite different from the Newberry and Caldecott winners.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - It'd be nice to have some students suggest books sometimes.
Jimmie/TX/ESL - And we have the Bluebonnet Awards which are Texas students' favorites.
Kathleen - Goodnight!!
Shelley - Good nite Kathleen! Thanks for the ideas and words of encouragement
Kathleen - I'm so impressed by the talents of other teachers...
Jimmie/TX/ESL - I think we had lots of good ideas presented tonight. Thanks for coming Shelley! :) 'Nite!