Join a Mailring at the
Teacher Mailring Center
http://www.teachers.net/mailrings/
Beth Bruno - Tonight's chat is about music lessons
Beth Bruno - I'm wearing a different hat tonight
Beth Bruno - I'm usually here as a school psychologist
Beth Bruno - But tonight I'm here as a flutist
Beth Bruno - I've played flute professionally and taught private lessons for many years
Beth Bruno - Are you a musician Jerry?
Jerry [CO] - No I am not. My son is on his way to becoming a fine musician.
Beth Bruno - How old is he and what does he play ( or sing)?
Jerry [CO] - He just turned 12. He has played the piano for three years. He just finished his first year of drums at his middle school.
Beth Bruno - How could you tell he was musically inclined?
Kathleen - I have absolutely no ability with music, but dearly wish I could play piano.
Beth Bruno - It's never too late to start, Kathleen. In fact adult beginners on piano, teachers tell me, often learn quickly.
Jerry [CO] - It seems like since he was young he was interested in music. We bought him toy instruments and loved them.
Kathleen - HI Gisele! Are you Mrs. Glosser of our sponsor, Mrs. Glosser's Math Goodies? http://www.mathgoodies.com ?
Beth Bruno - Adult beginners are usually very motivated and know why it's important to practice regularly.
Kathleen - From Beth Bruno's column at http://www.teachers.net/FAQ/schoolhouse/bruno23.html : “Recently released 1995 SAT results indicate that students who take music courses average more than 20 points higher than the mean in both verbal and math, and more than 50 points higher than students who donut take any arts courses."
Beth Bruno - At what age do your schools offer group and private music lessons?
Jerry [CO] - Marcos, my son, recently had an ensemble at a local college and his evaluator was ruthless!
Beth Bruno - I think the schools should offer vocal and instrumental music from kindergarten on. Do you agree?
Mary/PA - Our students can start instrumental lessons in 4th grade, all students, including K have music classes every week taught by a certified music instructor.
Beth Bruno - Was he in a regional contest of some kind?
Jerry [CO] - Our school offers group lessons in the 6th grade.
Kathleen - I'm wondering how much of the interest and talent are inherited
Beth Bruno - I think learning music does spill over into academics. There is a lot of math, vocab, language, discipline and beauty - plus other kinds of reasoning.
Jerry [CO] - No it really was not a contest. The piano teachers in our area frequently get together and have their students evaluated by college staff.
Kathleen - Our sponsor tonight is Mrs. Glosser's Math Goodies http://mathgoodies.com where you will find many free math resources.
Jerry [CO] - Beth, he played the Hunting Song at that event.
Beth Bruno - How did you handle it when the evaluator was mean with his comments?
Kathleen - Mary, you play flute, right?
Mary/PA - Yes, Kathleen, I do
Beth Bruno - Mary and I should get together for some duets. I play flute, too.
Jerry [CO] - We encouraged him (I wasn't there but my wife was) and so did his music teacher. She sent him and the other kids nice no
Mary/PA - That would be fun!
Beth Bruno - I think there is a hereditary factor to music talent - especially perfect pitch.
Kathleen - My daughter learned piano easily, she is apparently a "natural" but she did not get that from me.
Beth Bruno - But I also think exposure to music, a child's interest and good teaching can develop musical talents
Gisele - If there is a heredity factor to music talent, then I have lousy genes. (LOL) But I can dance!
Mary/PA - Maybe she did, Kathleen. Maybe you have the seed, but never planted it.
Beth Bruno - Your ability to dance indicates that you have good rhythm sense - maybe you'd make a good percussionist!
Jerry [CO] - Beth, what should a parent look for when shopping for a teacher (private lessons)?
Beth Bruno - Developing good listening skills is also part of musical training.
Gisele - I am told I have good rhythm when I dance. My brother was a good drummer...
Mary/PA - Beth, that plus personal discipline
Beth Bruno - Look for a teacher who is well-schooled in the instrument your child wants to learn - who also receives good references from parents and students who have studied with him or her.
Kathleen - Gisele, I manage to dance, too! But can't sing (though I love to when I'm alone)
Kathleen - "The American Medical Association gives us a rather remarkable statistic: Of all students applying for medical school, on average do you know which student major was accepted more often than all others – including math, science and biochemistry? Music.” ---Michael Greene, President of the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences
bamamomg2 - Beth, my youngest daughter just turned six. Her reading skills are very good for her age. Will piano be good for her in the fall?
Beth Bruno - So many people are too shy to try as they get older! And expressing yourself musically is such fun.
Mary/PA - Neither of my parents had the opportunity to play an instrument, but all of their offspring developed fairly high level musical skills because they were given the opportunity.
Beth Bruno - We all get practice reading out loud from our earliest years in school, but not as early trying to sing or play an instrument in front of other people. Do we cause performance anxiety in kids?
Kathleen - Beth I often wonder where that performance anxiety comes from. Little children are more comfortable than adults in front of their peers.
Mary/PA - Anything is possible, Beth
Mary/PA - I do think that early exposure is very important in most things
bamamomg2 - I have found my daughters' early experiences in children's choir at church has helped them to be less anxious when performing.
Beth Bruno - I know we're talking about music tonight, but I think children need exposure to all of the performing arts in the early years.
Beth Bruno - Too often schools cut art and music programs in the early grades and introduce them in middle and high school.
Kathleen - Beth, I agree. So many would have the opportunity for expression through the arts if only they had the exposure early enough.
Beth Bruno - I agree with you about children's choirs - any type of group performing helps reduce a child's self-consciousness
Jerry [CO] - The give more kids an opportunity to develop skills and gain positive recognition.
bamamomg2 - Early exposure to performing arts is a vital part of a child's education. I teach in a school system where there is no music education. The teacher must provide it themselves. It is criminal.
Mary/PA - I believe that the arts are the most obvious display of what makes humans different from other animals. Taking the arts out of schools is like taking away human nature.
Kathleen - Jerry, yes, without exposure kids don't learn that they have the talent or interest, a missed opportunity
bamamomg2 - I love music, but am not very musical. We do a lot of things with rhythm and movement.
Jerry [CO] - When was the last time a school cut the funding of football or basketball when there is a financial crunch?
Beth Bruno - It doesn't make sense, does it - to ask teachers with no music training to teach music. We wouldn't do that with reading or math.
bamamomg2 - I feel any little music ed I can do is very important.
Kathleen - From Beth's article at http://www.teachers.net/gazette/APR00/bruno.html "A study compared 19 preschoolers who took music lessons and 14 classmates enrolled in no special music programs. After eight months, the study found: A 46% boost in spatial IQs for the young musicians, and a 6% improvement for children not taught music. Our studies also show that making music appears to be much more beneficial to cognitive development than passive listening.” --- Frances Rauscher, Psychologist, University of California
Jerry [CO] - A lot of things that happen at school don't make sense.
Kathleen - Jerry, they cut athletics, but THAT'S when the citizens turn out to fight the cuts to school budgets, not so much when arts and academic programs are cut. sad
bamamomg2 - My daughters attend a system where music ed and art ed are available to them. It has greatly increased their desires to be creative. But, most children have no outlets for that kind of creativity. We are raising a nation of artistic illiterates!!!!
Linda/2/CA - Me--I love to sing--but the kids ask me not to because I can't carry a tune to save my life--but I have exposed my 2nd graders to many types of music
Beth Bruno - In one school I worked in, parents volunteered time after school to introduce art and music by teaching mini courses. It was very popular.
Beth Bruno - They taught guitar and singing and dance and two foreign languages (also related to music, I think).
Linda/2/CA - They have actually come to appreciate a lot of the classics
Kathleen - Linda, a good opportunity to teach them (model) that a beautiful singing voice isn't necessary in order to enjoy singing!
Barb in NE - Hi everyone~ Does everybody's school offer band?
Beth Bruno - There are many ways to bring art and music into the curriculum. I glad to hear that you're doing that.
Mary/PA - Our district has lots of bands. At our elem. school alone there is " The Beginner's Band", "The 5th & 6th Grade Band" and "The Jazz Band". The Jazz Band is exceptionally good for a bunch of kids.
bamamomg2 - My 3rd graders love it when I put on Mozart or light jazz. They have that instinctive love of all kinds of music. Children are so open. Without proper music ed, we lose an incredible window of opportunity.
Jerry [CO] - Some countries use a lot of Baroque music in their foreign language instruction.
Linda/2/CA - I use music (songs) to teach concepts and vocabulary also
Barb in NE - Bama, very true!
bamamomg2 - I teach my kids the Education Rock songs http://www.musick8.comhttp://www.musick8.com/marketplace3/ . They beg to sing them!!
Jerry [CO] - Barb, my school does at the middle school and high school.
Barb in NE - I'm so proud of my 5th grade son, he took band this year and chose flute! More power to him! I remember my high school band, all the flute players were girls!
Linda/2/CA - The only band in our whole district is a Latin band taught by a volunteer
Gisele - Beth, I know there is a relationship between math and music. Can you name specific activities?
Mary/PA - Each measure in music is broken into fractions.
Mary/PA - Music is a series of patterns
Beth Bruno - Learning about counting in different meters, like 3/4 and 2/4 and 6/8 time - relationship between time and how long to hold a note
Linda/2/CA - Tapping or clapping the rhythm also teaches patterns
Barb in NE - Linda, how tragic! So learning a musical instrument is restricted to those who can afford piano?
bamamomg2 - Why do systems make sure middle schools and high schools get some music taught to their students? The powers that be don not understand child development or they WOULD make sure elementary students have the same opportunities!
Beth Bruno - fractions are involved, too, when learning rhythm and meter, because each note is some fraction of a beat or a measure.
Linda/2/CA - Ours is a poverty stricken district/city--I doubt that more than 40 out of 2200 students can play any kind of instrument--been there for 30 years and never heard of anyone offering lessons--parents simply cannot afford them
Gisele - You present some good ideas for interdisciplinary studies...
LSW - Hello to everyone.......most of you must be in the states.....in Canada the government is stripping everything out of the system......nothing extra anymore.
Beth Bruno - odd isn't it, how even certain instruments are associated with boys or girls
bamamomg2 - Beth, are we denying many American children a chance at optimum brain development by denying them exposure to music? I would really like to know?
Beth Bruno - Yet there are several famous jazz and classical male flutists
Mary/PA - LSW, it's too bad that for some crazy reason the arts are considered to be "extras"
Beth Bruno - the best french horn player in our school was female - the only girl in the high school who played french horn.
LSW - We have a curriculum for music that music graduates might have difficulty understanding and they expect us to be able to teach it!!! Without ANY in-service!!
Barb in NE - Our music teacher always has a wonderful recorder unit for our 3rd, 4th and 5th graders. I love hearing "hot cross buns" from her class! Recorders aren't too expensive
LSW - Mary....they are extras now....that no one gets. Very sad.......
Kathleen - ah, bette has arrived, she has an interesting question related to whether her daughter should take (violin?) lessons. bette?
Mary/PA - The arts are fundamentals, not extras
bette/tx - kathleen thanks
bamamomg2 - LSW, I feel very competent in areas of academics, but very stupid when it comes to teaching music?
Beth Bruno - I'm not sure anyone knows how to reach optimum brain development. I've heard that our minds are capable of MUCH MORE than we use them for.
bette/tx - beth..just wonder with a developmentally delayed child if violin lessons would be good..hubby says no and i say yes...
Barb in NE - The best song they play is Lawrence Welk's "goodnight"! They blow bubbles after they play it, kind of like the champagne machine! Or am I dating myself!
Kathleen - bette, is your daughter interested?
bette/tx - i also wonder how much music kindergarten class should be getting each week?
Linda/2/CA - agree with you there bama--even after 12 years of music lessons!!
bamamomg2 - I have read so much about how music of certain kinds can increase academic efficacy.
Beth Bruno - But yes, I'll go out on a limb and say that playing music, taking ear training and learning rhythm - all tap different brain powers than reading and many other skills.
Kathleen - bette, I believe, but can't say that I practice it, k children should have lots of music everyday
LSW - bamamomg2.....I feel the same way and I took clarinet for years and sang in choirs--I am not qualified to teach the curriculum they expect us to teach.
bette/tx - kathleen yes and she is going into 4 th grade and when she goes into 5 th our district has lessons at school for kids
Mary/PA - bette, with the right teacher and method, it could be very beneficial
bamamomg2 - I mean academic proffiency...even if in small degrees.
Beth Bruno - My son loves music - listens to it night and day and goes to concerts frequently, but he doesn't sing or play an instrument.
bette/tx - kathleen but i mean by a music teacher...in my class singing and music all day long i mean by a pull out class
bette/tx - mary we have some great teachers here.. i think it would benefit her...
Kathleen - bette, if she is interested I would say go for it, she could drop it later if it becomes stressful. Why deny her the opportunity? She might have a talent that will supplement or make up for areas of weakness.
Beth Bruno - My daughter plays a little piano and is a singer - has taken voice lessons for years and sung in middle, high school and college choirs.
bette/tx - beth...same here i can sing of key but can not even read music ..
bamamomg2 - Beth, is any amount of music children in a classroom exposed to of benefit to them...even when taught by a person of very limited musical ability?
Kathleen - bette, I would say they should have music class at least once a week. Mary, what do you think, how often should K have music class?
bette/tx - kathleen i think hubby thinks it will stress her out as she has some stress related problems about fitting in right now
LSW - Singing and enjoying music is a very important part of their school--but who should be teaching the theory in the curriculum? How can they expect us to teach theory??
Linda/2/CA - Bette--is it her idea to play the violin?
bette/tx - kathleen for how long then?/ we have it for 20 minutes once a week..it takes them 10 minutes to sit down and relax
Kathleen - bette, but you don't know until you try it. Since she is interested it seems that NOT allowing it could be denying an opportunity.
bette/tx - linda it is hers and mine....she wants to do because a younger friend is doing it
bamamomg2 - Kathleen, at my daughters school K has music once a week. But, my daughter is exposed to much more through church choir and dance.
Harmony - I am looking for some summer Music workshops. I live in British Columbia, Canada. Anyone have any information?
bette/tx - kathleen and you said about the IQ of children going up?
Kathleen - bette, they shouldn't have to sit and relax in music class, they should have lots of movement, musical games, songs, rhythm instruments
Linda/2/CA - Bette--has she ever touched or otherwise attempted to play a violin? Reason I ask is that I understand that it is not the easiest of the instruments to play
Kathleen - From Beth Bruno's article, Time for Music Lessons at http://www.teachers.net/gazette/APR00/bruno.html "A study compared 19 preschoolers who took music lessons and 14 classmates enrolled in no special music programs. After eight months, the study found: A 46% boost in spatial IQs for the young musicians, and a 6% improvement for children not taught music. Our studies also show that making music appears to be much more beneficial to cognitive development than passive listening.” --- Frances Rauscher, Psychologist, University of California..
bette/tx - kathleen what i meant was get ready this, teacher makes them sit in order and in a circle
Beth Bruno - Exposing children to different kinds of music can be done by any teaching adult. But actually teaching skills, rhythm, singing or instruments should be done by someone with training.
Kathleen - bette, maybe the kids could start out by marching into the music room, then forming a circle.
bette/tx - linda..i guess there are other instruments she could play..what would you recommend??
Linda/2/CA - Oh my gosh--I usually have music last thing in the day because I definitely don't expect my students to sit still!! Movement is so important!!!
Beth Bruno - For the person from British Columbia. I would use a search engine to find workshops.
Kathleen - bette, is there a resource teacher who works with your daughter who might be able to make suggestions?
bette/tx - beth in my kindergarten class at this private school i taught at this yr..my room did not have a cassette or Cd player or recorder player ..when i asked for one i was told to find one not being used
bette/tx - kathleen..she wants them in order..and etc..
Linda/2/CA - Bette--don't have any recommendations but would suggest that you let her try out her friend's violin--but I definitely encourage lessons of some kind--they teach so much more than music itself
bette/tx - kathleen they suggested the violin
Beth Bruno - Bette, a parent could probably loan a player to the school - or donate one. In fact parents could probably donate several.
bette/tx - linda...i am telling hubby all this ...so he will change his mind..i already have decided she is doing it
Linda/2/CA - why a violin?
bette/tx - beth i brought mine from home..but my point is they did not think i guess it was important to have one as part of the room..the old teacher never played music i asked the other teachers
Harmony - Thanks, I did try several angles on search engines with no luck. I find this discussion very interesting. Where are you from, Beth?
Kathleen - What a shame the things schools do not have, that teachers have to beg for which should be standard equipment in every classroom!!! grrrrrr
bette/tx - linda that is what they said would be good for her..her resource teachers..
Beth Bruno - Another wonderful thing about learning music in school - it often leads to hobbies later in life.
bette/tx - kathleen...so true
Mary/PA - violins are actually very easy to start playing. It does take years to develop good technique, but one can play songs very quickly with a violin.
bette/tx - beth...and a good hobby..my husband played the trombone from 4-12 grade
Linda/2/CA - Music also teaches self discipline and concentration
Beth Bruno - I know every classroom should be well equipped, but when not, why not turn to parents or to the community to help?
Mary/PA - The Japanese start at age 3 or 4, I think
Beth Bruno - I sang songs with my children from infancy on.
bette/tx - beth i had 8 children in my private school kindergarten class and got no help from them....i sent home notes and wish list and nothing..no help in the classroom so asking for things this yr was out of the question
bette/tx - beth..those piggy back songs are the greatest
Kathleen - Yes, do turn to parents for what you need many are interested and able to provide materials and equipment.
Beth Bruno - Does your school have a PTA, Bette? Or your community one or more service clubs?
bette/tx - beth even my 15 yr and i still make up rhyming songs...
Kathleen - Even the least able of us is able to expose the kids to recorded music, Peter and the Wolf, display real instruments, invite musicians in to show and play instruments.
Beth Bruno - The service clubs are always looking for useful projects to get their members involved in.
bette/tx - beth..yes but they don't care what we want..they care about the flowers and plants....and we are not aloud to ask for handouts from the community
bette/tx - beth and forget grants....
Kathleen - In any group of kids there is likely to be a child who would be captivated and perhaps be influenced to follow a path into the musical world if only s/he is exposed and the idea is planted.
Linda/2/CA - National Assemblies Organization has several groups of amateur musicians who perform at schools for a fee--we have 2-3 such groups each year
bette/tx - kathleen i guess the saddest thing i saw was in my daughters headstart class she was so speech delayed even at 5 could not sing those simple songs..
bette/tx - kathleen but at 9 has made up for lost time..sings all the time...
Kathleen - bette, but even when she wasn't able to sing, she was benefiting from the exposure, and from the rhythm
bette/tx - kathleen all three of my teen daughters where in choir in school..and i think that helped them a lot
bette/tx - kathleen yes a lot of benefiting but sad when she couldn't say the words...but now talks all the time
Kathleen - I agree with Beth, everything we say about music relates to all performing arts
bette/tx - linda so i do a search under that name??
Linda/2/CA - think so--the organization part may be wrong--but know it is called National Assemblies--Might be National School Assemblies
Kathleen - bette, do you have a community band? Or, how about contacting the local high school band instructor, ask to have some kids come to demonstrate their instruments
bette/tx - kathleen but all that has to be approved by the school board and they are different when it comes to things like that
Beth Bruno - Any questions or comments before we wrap up? Thanks everyone!
Beth Bruno - Everyone have a fun, musical summer. :-)
Kathleen - I often think that many communities with limited $$$ are not tapping into the resources available within their own school district. MIddle and high school kids could perform musical plays for the younger kids, everyone would benefit
Kathleen - Thanks, Beth, a very interesting topic. We'll see you in the Fall. Have a nice summer break, Beth!
Kathleen - Thank you to all who participated!
Beth Bruno - Goodnight Kathleen. Have a good summer, too.
