Join a Mailring at the
Teacher Mailring Center
http://www.teachers.net/mailrings/
Beth Bruno - Hi everybody. I'm your moderator tonight. Did you have a chance to read the article in the Gazette about girls in technology? http://teachers.net/gazette/MAY01/bruno.html
bette/tx - beth no but it is about girls and computers???
Cher/2/CA - Beth...no...I haven't read it.....been a little busy here.....
Beth Bruno - Some of the stats: In grades 4 thru 6, the ratio of computer usage is 4 to 1, boys to girls.
Beth Bruno - For students 11 thr 18, boys are three times more likely to go to computer camps.
bette/tx - beth i have a 4 grader with special needs and she is very good on the computer and the school and doctors are leaning on a computer career for her
Cher/2/CA - I teach second...have 4 computers....if free time...girls don't go to them...boys love em!
bette/tx - beth really computer camps..why is that?
Beth Bruno - reasons for this? some say it's because boys play so many computer games - from an early age.
Cher/2/CA - beth..that sounds about right!
bette/tx - cher my 10yr can do more on a computer than i but we have sent her to cmoputer camps and lessons and her resource teacher lets her do alot of work on the computer
bette/tx - so beth i guess we are not in normal as my daughter has gone to camps and lessons??
bette/tx - beth ..really ....my 10yr is on yahoolings(?) and the doctors that she goes to says it has helped her learning skills
Beth Bruno - 75% t0 85% of sales and revenues in the $10 billion computer game industry comes from male consumers.
Cher/2/CA - Beth.....I think that is very safe to say! Raised 2 sons here...and sooo true about computer games and shoot em up type stuff!
bette/tx - beth yes but my girls had game boys too 3 girls to one boy
Beth Bruno - these numbers are gradually changing, as girls get excited about all the games, websites and Internet possibilities they are discovering.
bette/tx - beth i guess we are knew that my daughter i call pooh bear here had a nack for computers..
bette/tx - beth my daughter can do more than i can do
Cher/2/CA - Beth, seeing computer use in my classroom over the last 7 years of having them in my room...definitely a "boy" thing..at least my 2nd grade!
bette/tx - beth and my 16 is like number one in her keyboarding class and teacher asked her to do a high tech computer class in her jr yr
Beth Bruno - Your daughter is in the minority, Bette, it's great that she's so computer savvy
Beth Bruno - Since both boys and girls need to be computer literate and so many careers require computer facility, how do we address the gap?
bette/tx - beth yes ..i just told my husband about this
Cher/2/CA - Beth, I think the key is "get excited"... Girls tend not to get excited about computer games...more talking on the web..writing...searching....
bette/tx - beth good question??
bette/tx - beth at what age should a child be introduced to a key board?/
bette/tx - cher we have to watch the pooh bear she likes to chat on regular chatrooms lol
Beth Bruno - Do the girls in your classes know about chatrooms where they can meet with other students their age?
bette/tx -
bette/tx - beth i don;t like my 10yr going on those without me there as alot are not monitored
Cher/2/CA - Beth, Scholastic computer ordering magazine comes out once a month....have you seen what is there to order.....????
Beth Bruno - Do they know about the websites that feature girl stars, girl talk, discussion of age and gender relevant subjects/issues?
bette/tx - beth i think there are alot of those out there but some are nasty
Beth Bruno - I agree completely that both boys and girls computer use should be monitored - definitely.
Cher/2/CA - Beth, no...but will have access next Sept. for the classroom.
bette/tx - beth we have this computer in the kitchen area just for that reason
Beth Bruno - One way to do the monitoring is to keep the computer(s) in a common area, like the den, living room or kitchen.
bette/tx - beth i teach in a toddler program for teenage moms to bring thier kiddos to us while attending jr or sr high and i wish we had a computer
Beth Bruno - Would it help if I were to list a few of the girl sites that are terrific?
bette/tx - most of the children come from poor families and there are some great programs out there
Barb/2/NE - Beth, my husband teaches at an all girls school. They are very computer literate. They set up the labs, keep up the computers, and volunteer to help local parochial grade school get wired to the 'net.
Cher/2/CA - Beth, especially for younger girls too
bette/tx - beth yes please do and i will write them down
Beth Bruno - One excellent one is: http://info.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/CTvoices/kidslink/kidslink2/girlsandtech/
bette/tx - barb that is great both my daughter are knowledgeable too
Barb/2/NE - Thanks bette, I'm very proud of the girls too. I went to that High school myself!
Beth Bruno - good point, Barb. Many people have told me that girls in all girls' schools learn computers - less competition in that setting.
Cher/2/CA - Beth, I really think there is something about a Mars teaching a Venus ANYTHING! I see it right at home when my two sons try showing me computer stuff and how they explain it...Not very understandable to me:-/
Barb/2/NE - Their is a special group of girls that are choosen to be 'TARS' Technical Aide Resource. It's an honor to be choosen as a TAR, they help keep everything running smoothly
Barb/2/NE - Cher, LOL, my 6th grade son zooms by with his answers! I tell him to slow down!!
Beth Bruno - are others in toddler programs? preschoolers can learn a great deal on computers, although I think it should be encouraged sparingly at that age.
bette/tx - beth ....our program has none and we are funded by grants..i wish we had one to help with speech and learning
Cher/2/CA - what about a good keyboarding program for ages 6-7-8?
Barb/2/NE - Cher, do you think that is because of their learning style? My son can visually see, in his head, how to fix the problem
Beth Bruno - I like the idea of girls becoming technical resources within their classes - a step toward closer another stereotype
bette/tx - beth my special needs daughter started on a computer in public school at three and it helped her so much
canuk - Cher, my grade twos quite enjoy Type to Learn
Beth Bruno - I mean closing another stereotype
Cher/2/CA - Beth, I like the TAR idea too...gonna use it next year! Thanks BARB!
Cher/2/CA - canuk, do you know who publishes it???
canuk - I find girls and boys are equal in their enjoyment and desire to take their turns at the computer
Beth Bruno - I think learning styles do vary between boys and girls and from one child to another. the computer, some authors say, introduces new learning patterns to both boys and girls
canuk - I can get that info and email if you want to pm your address
Beth Bruno - In fact, that's why young children are more facile with computers than we as adults are, because their minds can more easily adapt and develop new patterns of thinking that computer-learning generates
Cher/2/CA - Beth, definite difference in learning style....and approach to the computers!
Beth Bruno - glad you're still here, Bette. How can we help you get your kids some computers?
canuk - becoming computer literate seems almost like learning a second language when you are young - it does help you think in other ways
bette/tx - beth my daughter was haviing problems in spelling in resource writing down on paper but when she used the computer she could spell words ..
Cher/2/CA - Beth...key word is easily adapt to it!
Beth Bruno - Any companies in your town that are willing to donate and help set them up?
bette/tx - beth i am not sure..we are not funded by the district and the grant money does not pay for it...i wish we had aleast one and i could set up a center...
Beth Bruno - that's fascinating, Bette. Why do you suppose the computer helped her spell more easily?
Barb/2/NE - It was also great PR for the all-girls High School. The papers wrote up the story of how they helped wired many school's to the internet. I remember a photo of a girl on a ladder, with her hands full of wire bundles and a drill!
Beth Bruno - Have other teachers noticed improved learning on computers as compared to pencil and paper?
bette/tx - beth i think it helped her with her thinking as she looked at the keys she could spell out the word...remember she has developmental delaysl
Beth Bruno - Maybe when you take the motor coordination out of the equation, the child can concentrate more on the spelling.
bette/tx - Barb that is so great for those girls to do that ...girl power
Barb/2/NE - Beth, the children are so excited to use the computers now, maybe they are being more careful when they spell
bette/tx - beth so her resource teacher made her do most of her work on the computer and her grades inproved
Cher/2/CA - Beth, in gr. 2 the "drill and kill" papers are gone...now they go to the computer to practice math facts for speed and accuracy and to get to higher levels! It amazes me!
bette/tx - it is now in IEP for 5 grade
Beth Bruno - It's true that the world of computers is exciting for all ages and both genders. there is so much wonderful software available now, regardless of interests, don't you think?
canuk - I have a couple of fine motor challenged boys - both of superior intellect who have found working on the computer. Some of the less neat girls also really enjoy being able to produce fine looking graphics and writing
bette/tx - beth yes and they know how to install teh software too
Cher/2/CA - bette and Beth...the key to it's success is that the school/district put money into the software that works and is "appealing" to the students at different grade levels!
Barb/2/NE - Our computer coordinator, at my school, is very comfortable with the children teaching her! She says their is so many changes, that it's too hard for one person to keep up on everything. I like her attitude!
Beth Bruno - I know of an inner city program where students are helping restore an old factory building - both boys and girls - it's being turned into a computer center
bette/tx - cher do you knwo the private school i taught at last yr did not believe in computers at the school
bette/tx - said they had them at home ...
Beth Bruno - students take classes, learn how to repair computers, install hardware and software - for job training and so much more.
Cher/2/CA - bette, many schools believe computers are a waste of time... I say it is another tool all children will need to succeed at in the 21 cent. and beyond!
Barb/2/NE - canuk, my 6th grade son used an "Alpha Smart" for his daily work. It definitly took the pressure off of him. He didn't have to concentrate on forming his letters
Beth Bruno - I have to agree that it's an important and necessary tool - not a replacement for other kinds of learning, but not to be ignored either!
Cher/2/CA - Beth, exactly what is needed! REstoration of buildings and buy in from community to assist with upkeep!
canuk - The social aspect of computer learning would be missing from the home scenario
Beth Bruno - another website: http://www.smartgirl.com
Cher/2/CA - Beth..what about Alpha Smart...heard about them...also heard they were a GREAT way to get kids on the processors! But the cost again........
Beth Bruno - people are mistaken, I think, when they say that computers isolate kids. I thought that for awhile until I discovered how interactive and friendly people are on the Internet.
Barb/2/NE - Cher, true, the school recieved our alpha smart in donation
Beth Bruno - What is an "Alpha Smart"
Beth Bruno - is it one of the keyboards that has a screen and hooks up to the Internet?
Barb/2/NE - Beth, an Alpha smart is a word proccessing machine, it's light and easily transported. After he types his assignment, he hooks it up to the teacher's computer and it tranports his data to her machine so she can print out his assignment
Beth Bruno - another website: http://www.girlsinc.org
Cher/2/CA - alpha smart....a word processor that can be portable that you can let children create and then you hook up to teacher computer to transfer..
Beth Bruno - Hey, Barb, that sounds really neat - a little like a palm pilot, only bigger so a child can work with it more readily. Do I have the right idea?
Cher/2/CA - Barb...do you know what one costs???
Barb/2/NE - Beth, yes!
Beth Bruno - one more website: http://www.girltech.com
Barb/2/NE - Cher, they have several models, hold on, I'll check
Beth Bruno - Have you noticed that our chat tonight is all girls? At least it seems to be.
Cher/2/CA - Beth...it's getting the girls to start out like on alpha smarts...to create ....since most like to write stories and notes...etc.
Beth Bruno - I wonder if male teachers favor their male students when it comes to computer use and availability and encouragement.
Cher/2/CA - I wonder how if male teachers have to instruct female students differently on computer tech???????
canuk - Beth I think the predominance of females in this tech chat is because most teachers, epspecially at elemenatry are female.
Barb/2/NE - http://www.alphasmart.com/products/as3000_pricing.html
Beth Bruno - my son teaches at the elementary level - I'll have to ask him if he's sexist when it comes to computer education.
Barb/2/NE - Cher, you get a price break if you order many, but it's about $200
Beth Bruno - That's the Alpha Smart, right? about $200?
Cher/2/CA - canuk...I think you are absolutely right...girls love to 'talk' as well and more than guys....(generalizing here) just check out the live chatroom when males& females are on there together!
Barb/2/NE - Beth, yes
canuk - I haven't found that turning the girls on to computers is a problem, they do the math activities. search the net etc.
Cher/2/CA - Barb...$200 for just one?????? word processor?????
Beth Bruno - more software is being developed that underplays competition and emphasizes cooperation, fantasy and exploration
Cindy - The Sims
Barb/2/NE - Hi Kathleen, great! I just was bragging about the high school that I attended. It's an all girls school. The girls have volunteered to hook up local grade schools to the internet
Kathleen - Is it anyone's experience in the primary/elem. classroom that the boys are more likely than girls to select computer activities?
Kathleen - Is Valerie S. here? She is a computer resource teacher, might have some insight
canuk - One school in our district that is more affluent had a fundraiser to buy computers for a poorer school.
Cher/2/CA - Kathleen, raising my hand very high here...given the choice during free time...boys over girls EVERY year in my gr. 2 room!
Valerie S. -
Beth Bruno - girls and boys have been shown to have equal interest in games that involve role plays, simulation, time/place and relationships
Valerie S. - I'm actually a district technology coordinator though.
Cindy - When I was in elementary school, I used to trade away my computer time.
Kathleen - Beth, your Gazette article mentioned that software favors the interests of boys...games...
Cher/2/CA - canuk...that was very thoughtful and empowering for both schools!
Cindy - I think girls need to be convinced that the computer holds something interesting for them; after that, they're all over using them.
Beth Bruno - Welcome, Dr. D. What say you about girls and technology at the high school level - in your classes?
Kathleen - Val, sorry about the incorrect title, just trying to flush you out
Dr. D - I think Beth is right about the equal male/female interest in computers.
Cher/2/CA - Beth, I haven't read the Gazette article but the software ordering clubs for kids favors boy type games 4 to 1 .
Beth Bruno - such software has been developed. some examples are: Carmen Sandiego games, Juilliard Music Adventure, Chop Suey, Turin's Passage, Below the Root
Beth Bruno - other games of equal interest: Reporter and other Ace's, Earthbound, Opening Night, Nights into Dreams, Myst
Dr. D - Beth, my high school is implementing algebra software for the 1st time next fall.
Dr. D - I'm curious to see how both genders react to the software.
Cher/2/CA - Beth, how about primary grade software that does the same......?????
canuk - I guess the kids see me working on the computer evey morning getting my school email, so they just figured it was part of life. I usually alot times, but if free time is available I have found it evenly spread
Kathleen - Is part of the problem the association between computers and math, and the OTHER problem about girls and math/science? Maybe not really another problem, but the same?
Beth Bruno - I sure wish we had had computers for learning math throughout the grades like kids do now. There's so much conceptual work that computers lend themselves to
Dr. D - I've tried it myself and I like the software application, but then again...I'm male.
canuk - Dr. D how have womwn math teachers in your faculty reacted to the software?
Kathleen - Dr. D. is your algebra course an intro course where you might see equal numbers of boys and girls?
Dr. D - canuk, The women like the software a lot because it is "intellegent" software.
Kathleen - Are girls more drawn to the keyboard than to joy sticks?
Beth Bruno - I think we're still seeing some resistance among teachers to truly "take" to computers, don't you? Perhaps teachers who haven't grown up with them?
canuk - Does the female/science and math problem mostly emerg in highschool - again, I have not really seen evidence of it in grade two
Cher/2/CA - Kathleen, YAHOO...I think you hit the nail right on the head about keyboard vs. joystick!
Kathleen - And because so many of us are females at the primary and elem levels, we're not the best role models (those of us who aren't techies)
Dr. D - No Katthleen, in fact, the software course is ONLY available to the upperclassman (I would say 1/3 are repeating the course)
Beth Bruno - I'm guessing that the gender differences are truly disappearing, especially in the early grades, now that both teachers and kids have equal comfort with them
Beth Bruno - computers, that is.
Barb/2/NE - Beth, that can be true! But I think that the teachers at my school have realized that the comupters are leaving, so they are adapting!
Cher/2/CA - Beth, buying the computer, putting it into the classroom even setting it up doesn't give the teacher a bit a confidence...it's having the training...(ongoing) that builds the confidence to be success on computers....
Kathleen - Dr. D., forgive me if you have posted this already, but what is the ratio of boys:girls in that class?
Dr. D - Beth, I think that opinion will change when teachers try the software. I didn't want anything to do with it either.
Kathleen - Barb, do you mean they've realized that computers AREN'T leaving?
Barb/2/NE - That is, computers are NOT leaving! LOL
Beth Bruno - So true, Cher. Adults (teachers) definitely need training
Barb/2/NE -
Cher/2/CA - Beth...not at my school. The older the teacher (and I can say this as I am 54) the less they use them, IF AT ALL!
canuk - Beth, training and time to PLAY!
Dr. D - Beth, but then I tried a sample quiz from a Glencoe web site and it works rather well. I was very suprised.
Beth Bruno - Even though I use my computer every day, I plan to take a course this summer to learn more about use of graphics and formatting, so I can begin to learn web design
Cher/2/CA - Beth, and treating the teacher/learner as a professional as they learn...providing them with workshops, inservices etc. to get the ball rolling in a district/school too!
Beth Bruno - If anyone had told me five years ago that I'd be practically back in graduate school to learn all this new technology, I would have laughed in their faces. Now here I am.
Dr. D - Kathleen, Strange I think I have twice as many males than females.
Beth Bruno - I wonder if girls are still pulling back from math at early ages. What do you think?
Kathleen - Dr. D. I was hoping you would say 50-50. That's not encouraging.
Kathleen - Beth, Dr. D.'s testimony indicates that girls are still not flocking to the math fields
Dr. D - It's not Kathleen, but we're being accurate.
Cher/2/CA - Beth, I know some are...I already have one 2nd grader who quote"I hate math." Her mom comes in and says,"M hates math as much as I did at her age." stereotyping at early ages...
Beth Bruno - The age factor is definitely there. Older teachers often shy away from the new technologies. No one likes to feel stupid!
Barb/2/NE - If I had a girl, I'd definitly send her to an all girl school. 90% of the girls, at my husband's school, take 4 years of math
Cher/2/CA - Kathleen, Beth, what is the incentive for girls TO flock to the math fields?????
Beth Bruno - Maybe our next subject should be "girls and math"
canuk - Is there still a social stigma about being a "smart" girl in high school?
Cher/2/CA - Beth
Cher/2/CA - canuk, nerd guy or smart girl...still the same!
Kathleen - Cher, well, why not? Why shouldn't they also be attracted to math applications/jobs?
Beth Bruno - math anxiety is still out there - maybe moms teach it to their daughters - or elementary school teachers don't emphsize it enough, because maybe they weren't too interested or "hot" in math either.
Dr. D - I have ,at this moment, 23 females and 36 males!
Dr. D - Beth, math anxiety will always be here.
Cher/2/CA - Kathleen, good question....how do you stop parents from feeding their children how they, THE PARENT, felt about any subject in school?
Dr. D - But I think this software will be good.
canuk - My top "math wizzes" - 3 girls 2 boys
Dr. D - The students can work at their own pace.
Kathleen - I think role models for females are crucial.
Beth Bruno - The concepts in math apply to everyday life and to professions in hundreds of ways. We do a disservice to girls if we don't school them in math as enthusiastically as we do boys.
Kathleen - canuk, that's encouraging.
Dr. D - They are encouraged to "master" the math on their own.
canuk - The three girls are from Asian heritage. Does that make a difference?
Cher/2/CA - Kathleen, youngest son has a Bachelor's in math degree. Other than teach.....not specialized in anything else...?
Dr. D - And they can be guided throought he math until they have reached that "mastery."
Beth Bruno - Something interesting in my family. One of my brothers has three girls - all whizzes in math. I wonder if that would have been different if these girls had also had boy siblings. I'd like to think it would not have mattered.
Kathleen - Someone wrote to me about her venture, http://www.binarygirl.com/ One feature of the site is a forum where female role models post on a "Day in the Life" in which women describe a typical day at work in different fields, geared toward girls interested in learning more about computers and technology
Cher/2/CA - Oldest son is the computer wizard and so interesting listening to them talk math and technology....Blows me away!
Kathleen - canuk, cultural difference maybe
Dr. D - Of course, "mastery" s reached when the student no longer needs to be guided through the math.
Cher/2/CA - Kathleen, that site sounds VERY encouraging!
Beth Bruno - another website: http://www.worldkids.net/girl
Barb/2/NE - Kathleen, that site looks great!
Dr. D - Well I hope I was a help to you all.
Kathleen - Beth's article include this very helpful list: Best Practices for Teachers - to keep girls involved with technology available at http://teachers.net/gazette/MAY01/bruno.html . good tips
Barb/2/NE - Yes, Dr. D, thanks for joining our meeting!
Dr. D - Good luck with your project.
Cher/2/CA - Dr. D.. I would have not been soooo fearful of math had I been able to PRACTICE on a computer...and learn from mistakes, etc. I made.. That would have been a tremendous support for me!
Beth Bruno - all three of my brother's girls have gone into math related careers - one is a cpa in banking, another teaches high school math and the third is an epidemiologist who uses math in research applications .
Cher/2/CA - Beth, math son, is the stock market wizard......and manager of an electronics chain.
Beth Bruno - We certainly do need female role models in math and computer fields, and we need to get them into our schools at all grade levels.
Valerie S. - I see the subject has shifted a bit to math but I wanted to add two cents about technology.
Cher/2/CA - Beth, AND EARLY too!
Valerie S. - As a distict technology coordinator, I don't see the problem being girls USING the computers, but ask them to open one up!
Kathleen - Val, we were just discussing the possible correlation between girls' trepidation about technology and that of the great divide between girls and math.
Valerie S. - I am trying to teach them that girls with tools are very cool!
Cher/2/CA - Valerie???? You mean setting a computer up????
Kathleen - Val, they don't want to open the computer?
canuk - Our residents tech experts are female, the kids see them taking computers aprt too
Beth Bruno - True, Valerie, familiarizing girls with the inner workings of computers is important, too. There's no reason why that should be a male undertaking.
Cher/2/CA - Valerie, I am writing that quote down right now
Kathleen - Girls with tools are very cool.
Valerie S. - Everybody say it together!
Beth Bruno - I like that, too. One year I gave my daughter a toolkit for her birthday (she was in middle school I think). At first she thought it odd, but she's used it often ever since.
Kathleen - computers, math, engineering...all lacking equity in terms of female participation. and science
Valerie S. - We are starting a Distance Learning programm next year (if all the equipment ever gets installed and working) I'm really hoping the girls will jump on board.
Kathleen - Beth, LOL that's another topic!
Cher/2/CA - Beth, EXACTLY! Expose them young...Look what we used to do in Kdgn. girls would ?? and the boys would play what???? Toolkits are a great idea!
Beth Bruno - Has anyone here attended a computer camp (as a student or counselor)? What are they like?
brian - I hope so Beth as I am very poor with any mechanical type performances
Kathleen - In kindergarten, the girls play with with the housekeeping items and the boys play with the tools, blocks, computer, when left to their choices.
canuk - I wonder in how many households the female is actually the one who programs the VCR etc because the guys don't like to read the instructions
Cher/2/CA - Kathleen, jot that guy idea down too! Brian can moderate that one
Beth Bruno - In my house, I'm the mechanical one. I've always liked to fix things.
Kathleen - Many thanks to our moderator, Beth Bruno, author of Wild Tulips: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0970843003/teachersnet
brian - so true canuk re reading directions
Cher/2/CA - Kathleen, EXACTLY !
Kathleen - The hour flew by!
Barb/2/NE - night everyone, great meeting!
Valerie S. - Thanks Beth! Important subject!
Beth Bruno - We're going to have to chat about these subjects again. No one wants to leave.
Cher/2/CA - canuk, I don't program anything...I let my men do it LOL here!
Valerie S. - Good night... hope we chat again!
Beth Bruno - Unfortunately I have to sign off, because I have a deadline to meet tomorrow (an article I have to write)
Kathleen - Good night, thanks to all who participated tonight.
Beth Bruno - Thanks everyone for all your ideas and participation. See you next month?
Beth Bruno - Don't forget to take a look at my new book, Wild Tulips (on amazon.com)
