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Tom Nixon - Hi meeha and everyone.
Tom Nixon - CSU Fresno graduate (BA & MA)
Sunnie - I'm Leslie Bowman -- I guess I should use my real name
Pat - Hey Leslie
kiddieup - Tom....my question is this: I'm already at a job that *technically* requires a BA, but I was hired w/out one because they loved me......but...
kiddieup - I'm in ece...what more could a BA do for me? (Does that make sense?)
Tom Nixon - Okay, kiddieup, you have a couple of options. To earn a BA as quickly and "easily" as possible, I would check out Thomas Edison State College in NJ. You can use tests and portfolios to earn units.
kiddieup - I'm seriously looking into the Concordia Distance Ed ECE/ChildDev.....know anything about it?
kiddieup - I went to Concordia, Irvine 10 yrs ago and got my Mrs. Degree, but not my BA
Pat - Great...have had a long week of synchonous training...15 in a class Monday and Tuesday...man was that trying. Worked 20 hrs between Monday and Tuesday...am beat.
Tom Nixon - Only fairly recently. Seems like a good program and very specifically in your field.
Pat - Leslie...ever use Viewlets?
kiddieup - ...feeling regret, fear....what kind of investment of my life will distance education take?
Leslie (Sunnie) - I am going to introduce Tom Nixon now so we can "officially" get startedHe is the co-author of Bear's Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning and we are pleased to have him with us tonight. Besides which - he knows a whole lot more about DL than I do :)
Tom Nixon - I'm not sure I would say more. You know a lot!
Tom Nixon - Yes, it's definitely possible to earn legitimate degrees by distance learning. Our book (note sales pitch <grin>lists over 350 programs.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Tom would you like to start with a particular topic and then we can take a few questions as we go along?
Leslie (Sunnie) - We are going to have an informal chat tonight rather than a more formal meeting format. So when you have questions, go ahead with them but let's try not to bombard Tom with too many at once.
Tom Nixon - Sure. There are many opportunities available.
Tom Nixon - Some of the MA programs that I like are at Cappella, Union Institute, and Nova Southeastern.
meeha/ece/tx - Tom, how many options are open for doctoral degree preparation in the DL format?
Sandy/PA/2 - I'm interested in doctoral programs
Leslie (Sunnie) - It would also be best to stick with more general questions about the topics rather than conversing about personal circumstances. I believe Tom will have his email available at the end of the session for those who wish to ask about personal circumstances.
kiddieup - a general question for anyone out there: what have you found to be the BEST DL ECE/Child Development program for a Bachelor's Degree?
Tom Nixon - It depends on which specific area of education. If you're talking US only and completely non-residential, less than a dozen..
kiddieup - tom...was that last reply for me?
Tom Nixon - If you're willing to go abroad (where they've been doing DL for over 100 years), then it opens up to many dozens
Sandy/PA/2 - how about US only with maybe a short residency required (like a week or two?) ... many of those?
Leslie (Sunnie) - Kiddie I believe Tom was referring to doctoral programs
Tom Nixon - If you're willing to go abroad (where they've been doing DL for over 100 years), then it opens up to many dozens
ClaireHS/couns - Looking for a PhD program in Ed Psy or Counseling Psy...any you know of? I live in WA.. and need distance learning or summers only or combo. Thanx
Tom Nixon - I know people worry about degree mills. One thing to keep in mind is that US schools must be regionally accredited. Otherwise the degree is not worth much.
Pat - bad connection tonight...
Tom Nixon - Ed Psych - Texas A&M - Commerce
kiddieup - a newbie here, in many ways...what is "regionally accredited?"
Tom Nixon - There's also an Ed Psych program at the University of South Africa.
ClaireHS/couns - Commerce? TO what does that refer?
meeha/ece/gtx - How does the quality of the training compare in DL to residential ("face-to-face") training ... are the degrees qualitatively similar
Pat - Tom, any word on Seminaries looking into DE? I know they are hurting for their attendance so wonder if there is anything out there noting their interest in DE?
Tom Nixon - There are six regional accreditors for colleges and universities. You can find the list in the directory listed at http://www.chea.org.
ClaireHS/couns - Hi Meeha! thanks for the welcome. How are you?
Leslie (Sunnie) - Here is a link that explains accreditation: http://www.degree.net/guides/accreditation.html
kiddieup - ooo! Meeha took the question right outta my fingers!
Sandy/PA/2 - meeha -- I completed my masters via distance ed -- you wouldn't know it unless I told you -- degree was conferred by university that also has "on-site" learning
Tom Nixon - In terms of quality, it can be mixed (like traditional classrooms). Studies have shown little difference between residential and distance.
ClaireHS/couns - So Africa is REALLY distance learning. Is there any time that one would have to put in time on SO Africa campus?
Tom Nixon - http://www.degreeinfo.com is a chatboard specifically geared to distance learning. Lots of information from experts in the field.
Tom Nixon - http://www.degree.net has information about accreditation, resources, and more.
Tom Nixon - You wouldn't need to put in the time (probably). Residence can be negotiated.
Kim - Tom are you affiliated with any institution?
kiddieup2 - this is kiddieup...now #2...I was booted
Sandy/PA/2 - are there DL programs that are "work at your own pace?" Like one class at a time?
kiddieup2 - can residence be negotiated *anywhere?*
Leslie (Sunnie) - I have also heard that residencies can be negotiated at some Australian universities.
Tom Nixon - In terms of affiliation, I am a public school teacher for Fresno USD and I am a lecturer in linguistics and in education at CSU Fresno.
Leslie (Sunnie) - The transcript of this chat will be archived http://teachers.net/archive
Sheree - I find that the differences between online classes compared to "in person" classes has a lot of variables. It depends on the needs of the student, the teaching style of the professor, and the type of class you are taking.
Kim - thanks, just curious
ClaireHS/couns - Thanks for the archive info, Sunnie
kiddieup2 - I ask because the Concordia program I'm looking into only requires 4 days, but that's still 4 days away from my "real" life
Pat - Thanks Leslie...was cutting and pasting into word...
Tom Nixon - Residence: possible can be negotiated. It depends on the school. Outside the US (primarily South Africa and Australia [both good ed. bargains])
Leslie (Sunnie) - Kiddie, negotiating residence usually means not only where but how much time must be spent in traditional f2f learning.
Tom Nixon - The state of Arizona recently has said that the MA in administration offered by Cappella University satisfies their requirements for principals/VPs/etc. AZ has reciprocity with 20 other states.
ClaireHS/couns - Tom, what do you know about Fielding Institute?
jacki/1/NJ - Does anyone know anything about Marygrove?
Tom Nixon - Leslie is exactly right in regards to residence. Also, many things can be negotiated (beyond just residence). Most people don't realize or try.
kiddieup2 - I can't stay long...still wondering anyone's #1 recommendations for ECE/Child Development Programs in the USA?
Sandy/PA/2 - like what other sorts of things can be negotiated?
ClaireHS/couns - Tom, with WHOM do you negotiate terms? Dept chair??
Tom Nixon - Fielding Institute is regionally-accredited and, from students there, I have heard very good things.
Tom Nixon - Either Concordia or Thomas Edison State College. Possibly University of Wyoming.
ClaireHS/couns - Thanks.. the person to whom I spoke was "high" on Fielding.. but that was just one opinion.
Tom Nixon - For doctorates abroad, likely with your sponsor or with your chair. Here can be similar. Also possibly the graduate office.
kiddieup2 - thank you, Tom...that will give me somewhere to start!
teech - Are there any doctoral programs in special ed in distance learning?
meeha/ece/gtx - ... how would a doctorate abroad work ... where dissertation is concerned?
ClaireHS/couns - Ok, thanks Tom. BTW, Washington State University (Go COUGS!) has a fantastic, summers only Counseling Psy MEd program..
kiddieup2 - I'm curious...what do folks find to be the "average" price of Distance Education?
Sheree - Walden University has a Ph.D in Special Ed.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Meeha sometimes the defense of dissertation is done via teleconferencing and sometimes there is no traditional "dissertation defense."
teech - What do you do bout the dissertation?
meeha/ece/gtx - thanks, Leslie!
Tom Nixon - Special ed docs: Open University (UK), University of Birmingham (UK), University of Southern Queensland (Australia). None in the U.S. that I know of.
Sheree - Tom, Walden University has a Ph.D in Special Ed.
kiddieup2 - Tom, just to aide in my research...in which state is Thomas Edison State College?
Tom Nixon - Hadn't heard about the Walden program. Something for the second edition. Walden has recently come out with a number of good programs.
meeha/ece/gtx - international fees much greater than those on continental US?
Sheree - That is here in the United States
Tom Nixon - Average price of most distance education = expensive.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Meeha international fees are much LESS than in the US
Tom Nixon - Graduate programs in South Africa, UK, and Australia are much, much less than here.
elearningpro - I have to disagree that most are expensive - unless you mean just PhD programs
meeha/ece/gtx - How are the international doc programs received in the US?
teech - do they have the same requirements as a tradition doc program
Leslie (Sunnie) - In fact, the Australian Uni that I am considering would cost less than half of a US doctorate - and that includes travel to OZ twice for a week each in the course of the 3-4 year program for both hubby and me.
Pat - Leslie/Tom...other than Cappella...other PhD programs in Distance Learning that you know of ?
Tom Nixon - Whether you can use a foreign graduate program depends on your state, your district, your astrological sign...
Tom Nixon - And, having been to Australia, it's well worth the trip!
kiddieup2 - hmmmm.....since cost is a HUGE issue for me, any recommendations for international Bachelor's Programs?
Tom Nixon - Union Institute, Nova Southeastern,
Leslie (Sunnie) - Kiddie bachelors program costs are on par with traditional college costs.
Tom Nixon - Regent University is another doctoral program. Pepperdine.
elearningpro - If cost is a factor for Bachelor's or Grad programs, there are many that offer financial aid
Tom Nixon - University of Nebraska - Lincoln
teech - what are the admissions requirements?
Tom Nixon - Whoever asked about Commerce, that's the name of the city.
elearningpro - UNL has some very good programs at a reasonable cost
Leslie (Sunnie) - Here is a link to doctoral programs on degree.net http://www.degree.net/schools/doctorates.html
Tom Nixon - Admissions requirements vary, but they should be on the internet.
jacki/1/NJ - Tom--Do you know anything about Marygrove and their Masters study groups?
meeha/ece/gtx - Well, I need to excuse myself -- thanks for the info. I'll be sure to check back to the archives in a day or two ...
Pat - Link is great...
elearningpro - Gotta run, Leslie, please update me on this meeting. OUT
Tom Nixon - I have heard from one student that they liked the program (which isn't much). I think it's fairly small (which is not a bad thing).
Leslie (Sunnie) - thanks George
Pat - http://distance.gradschools.com/
Leslie (Sunnie) - Teech admissions requirements are usually about the same as for the traditional programs - for a PHD you need a masters and sometimes GRE scores.
Tom Nixon - And abroad they may require that the MA have a thesis component.
jacki/1/NJ - thanks...
Leslie (Sunnie) - Abroad they will definitely want to know that you have completed some intensive research courses.
Tom Nixon - Also, it's important to mention that most doctorates abroad don't have coursework. You go straight to the research and the dissertation.
kiddieup2 - please list the pros and cons to distance ed vs. traditional
Leslie (Sunnie) - Tom, I have seen at some Australian universities that the PhD programs require no coursework but the EdD programs DO require coursework.
Tom Nixon - Pros = on your schedule. Cons = can be cost, but not always, particularly at the undergraduate level
Tom Nixon - I've seen that some EdDs do as well. Which Aus Uni are you looking at?
Leslie (Sunnie) - Kiddie check out my article "Is Distance Learning For You?" http://teachers.net/gazette/MAR01/bowman.html
Sheree - Kiddie, for distance learning you have to be very self motivated, be able to manage your time well, and be an independent learner. At times it is frustrating to not have a "person" to talk to at a moments notice. However, distance learning is good because you can do your work according to your schedule.
Leslie (Sunnie) - I'm most particularly interested in Deakin at the moment though I've corresponded quite a bit with Charles Sturt Uni
Tom Nixon - I like distance education because my life is crazy enough without trying to get to a university campus somewhere.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Amen to that Tom
Tom Nixon - Yes, to be successful, you definitely need to be self-motivated. If you are less self-motivated, you might consider programs at places like National University and the University of Phoenix which offer classes in a compressed time frame residentially.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Deakin Uni will pay the round trip airfare for international students to come to Australia to defend the dissertation proposal -- about a week visit. Then there is no other residency required.
Sheree - The down side is that it seems like even MORE work to me. Since you don't have campus "class time" your homework includes that time. (I guess it depends on your school or program.) However, I ALWAYS have something to get done. It just doesn't end.
Pat - hey gang...speaking of DL...I better get to my courses...will check the link for the review...thanks again for the information , the links, etc.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Sheree what program are you in currently?
Tom Nixon - You can also check out an article that I wrote for ESL Magazine on distance learning at http://www.eslmag.com.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Thanks for coming by Pat - talk to you soon.
Tom Nixon - I've heard good things about Deakin. That's a good deal for the travel.
Sheree - I am in the Ph.D. program in Educational Technology at Walden University
Tom Nixon - Yes, Sheree, there are folks out there that go the DL route because it's easier. <grin> yeah, right!
Sandy/PA/2 - Well, I've got to go ... work to do! Thanks for the info and I will be checking the archive later!
Tom Nixon - Sheree, what do you think of Walden. They've been around for a while, but I've met very few of their students.
Leslie (Sunnie) - I was accepted and enrolled in Capella -- but withdrew after two days. I could not see spending that kind of money for part time doctoral study
Sheree - No, no, no....Not for me. I have a B.F.A., M.F.A., two years education credits at traditional universities. Now I am at Walden and it seems twice as hard.
Tom Nixon - Yes, Capella is a chunk of change. It *might* be worth it, but you should very much have a specific goal in mind.
Tom Nixon - I'm with you. Capella is going to make you work. And that is many people's experience with DL. It is certainly not easier. Just different.
Leslie (Sunnie) - I am hoping to talk some of my former classmates from the Cal State program into doing a doctorate at Deakin together.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Sheree that could just be the doctoral study rather than bachelors and masters study. My DL masters study was not more work than traditional programs.
Sheree - Tom, Actually I love "Walden". Although I am having such a hard time trying to fit the work into my full time schedule of teaching, it is not a piece of cake. Also, Walden is trying to maintain high standards. Therefore, the work and expectations are really piled high.
Tom Nixon - For the money, I really like the Australian universities. Even without the money factor, they offer more and arguably better DL doctorates than most of the U.S. ones. Look to see that change as the U.S. DL community begins to offer more programs.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Tom do you think any US universities will ever get around to "research degrees"?
kiddieup2 - Leslie...great article....Tom...where is your article at eslmag.com?
Leslie (Sunnie) - I know several PhDs who say that going the research route is much better. They do not like the current US way of doctoral coursework.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Thank you Kiddie
Tom Nixon - I'm glad to hear that about Walden. I've always liked them. They seem to be offering interesting things these days. Just saw a new concentration in Integrating Technology in the Classroom for an Master's ed.
Tom Nixon - Checking on the article. It was on their home page, but it was in the last issue, so has been moved. Give me a moment.
Sheree - Leslie, yes. That is the thing that is hard to discern. It may be the fact that I am in a doctoral program and they expect more. I never felt the pressure that I do right now.
Tom Nixon - Here it is: http://www.eslmag.com/sepoct01art.html. Very focused to ESL folks, but still of value to others.
Leslie (Sunnie) - That's what I am dreading Sheree. I hate coursework and that's why I'm leaning so strongly toward the Australian degree programs of research.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Hi RC
Tom Nixon - I'm with Leslie. My preference is to get to the research.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Tom are you looking into doctoral study anytime soon?
RC - hi all
Tom Nixon - I'm working on a second book for Ten Speed Press called "Bears' Guide to Earning a High School Diploma Nontraditionally." If you have thoughts on the topic, feel free to send them to me at tcnixon@yahoo.com.
Sheree - Actually, I LIKE the coursework because it is more cut and dry. You do the reading and the writing and then in 12 weeks your done with a class. It is the research that is driving me nuts. I LOVE doing the residency components. That is a great break to SEE the people you have met online.
gina - hi room
Tom Nixon - Hmm...a doctorate. Do you want my wife to divorce me? Actually, I am taking some courses now through UCLA extension, but in other areas. I've thought on and off about the doctorate. But I have to wait my turn...my wife wants to go to grad school.
Leslie (Sunnie) - LOL Sheree -- I have to laugh because people are so different
gina - is anybody available to help me for a sec
Leslie (Sunnie) - Hi Becky and Gina
RC - got into this late, but am looking for doctorate studies on line.......
Leslie (Sunnie) - I know what you mean Tom
Tom Nixon - If I were getting a doctorate, I would either get a doctorate offered through the University of California/CSU Fresno (joint program, somewhat nontraditional with compressed courses on Saturdays) or I would get one from Australia.
RC - anything NYS would accept?
gina - hello
Becky - I just got my Masters through the University of New England in Maine. It is a distance learning program. I loved it. Busy life, kids, job, etc. It only too 4 years.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Here are some links for you RC -- http://www.degree.net/schools/doctorates.html and http://www.gospelcom.net/bakersguide/doctoral.html
Tom Nixon - RC, there are several possibilities: Capella, Walden, Nova Southeastern, Argosy, Union Institute. Probably NYS would accept all of those.
Leslie (Sunnie) - oops the second didn't link right - here it is again http://www.gospelcom.net/bakersguide/doctoral.html
kiddieup2 - I need to get going... before I do...in which state is Thomas Edison State College?
Leslie (Sunnie) - The transcript of this chat will be archived http://teachers.net/archive within a week or so.
Tom Nixon - New Jersey
Leslie (Sunnie) - Here's the link to their website Kiddie http://www.tesc.edu/
Tom Nixon - It's on the web at http://www.tesc.edu
Leslie (Sunnie) - Hi Wendy
RC - are those totally on line with just research?
Wendy - I just came in. I've idly considered distance learning to become more qualified as a math educator, but I don't really have anything useful to contribute to this chat!
Leslie (Sunnie) - No RC - the US degrees require coursework and residencies
Tom Nixon - Other choices for bachelor's programs: Charter Oak State College at http://www.cosc.edu and Excelsior at http://www.excelsior.edu
Leslie (Sunnie) - That's ok Wendy, Tom is here to answer questions and provide information
Tom Nixon - Hi Wendy! Are you thinking you need a BA, an MA, or a teaching credential?
Leslie (Sunnie) - Wendy are you interested in a graduate degree or just professional development courses?
RC - well, can't do the residencies - thx for input
kiddieup2 - thank you so much! Have a great evening!
Tom Nixon - If you're willing to go abroad, it's possible to not have residencies.
Leslie (Sunnie) - RC the residencies sometimes are scheduled around the country so that students do not have to travel far. And sometimes it's just weekends and sometimes a week or two weeks.
Tom Nixon - Rio Salado College in Arizona now offers a completely online teacher credential program. If your state has reciprocity with Arizona (and about 20 do), then that program could work for you.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Capella for example schedules residencies on the west coast and on the east coast and in the south and midwest.
Wendy - I'm not used to this method of communication. I already have a Master's in teaching English and certification in Elem Ed, but now I have a math site for kids (www.mathcats.com) and I feel kind of unqualified to take it to the max. But I'm not very motivated to get more schooling. But I don't think I could conduct workshops without a degree in math.
Tom Nixon - Yes, I know that Argosy (formerly University of Sarasota) does cohorts around the country for doctoral programs.
RC - will check into places mentioned
Tom Nixon - You're probably right, Wendy. Often it can be the degree that holds us back.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Wendy you might want to consider a graduate certificate in teaching math. That would be just a few courses.
RC - and sitting in a classroom again - LOL
Wendy - The thing that frustrates me is that I'm mostly interested in math for elementary school kids, and I've had college calculus and don't feel inspired to take a lot of higher math courses just so people will think I know how to teach children!
Tom Nixon - Certificates can be anywhere from 12-24 units. I'm working on one now (but, thankfully, not in math).
Leslie (Sunnie) - Wendy you state education department will evaluate your transcripts for free. You can ask them what you need for a math endorsement.
Wendy - Really, just a few courses? That sounds like just what I need. got any ideas of where to get such a certificate?
Leslie (Sunnie) - When you find out what you need, then you can start looking around to find the most cost-effective courses. You may very well be able to find what you need via distance learning.
Tom Nixon - Perhaps, Wendy, you might look into an MA in Math Education. As to certificates, depends on what your state will accept.
Wendy - But would a certificate make people think I'm qualified to conduct workshops or would I need another Master's degree? I seem to have some credibility with my site which has bee recommended by NCTM and has been twice an ENC digital dozen site but...
RC - thx all - still have work to do - 'nite
Leslie (Sunnie) - G'nite RC.
Wendy - Yes, an MA in Math Ed, I've thought about, but I think those require a lot of prereq math courses.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Yes Wendy I think that with your current graduate degree and certification you would have the credibility you need.
Wendy - even though my degree is an MAT in English??
Tom Nixon - Sometimes it can depend on where the certificate is from. For MAs in Math Ed. you can look at Montana State University, University of Idaho, University of Northern Iowa. I don't know of any distance learning certificates in math ed.
Wendy - Maybe if I found a distance program where I could do a lot of independent study focusing on the education end of things more than the higher math end of things...
Wendy - I've written down the colleges you've mentioned and will look into them. Thanks.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Wendy I guess it would all depend on your state ed department.
Tom Nixon - You should consider a school like the Union Institute where you can very much design your own program. Another option would be a self-designed masters at your local state university.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Well we just have a few minutes left. Tom, thank you so much for spending the past hour with us.
Tom Nixon - You're entirely welcome. I enjoyed it greatly.
Wendy - Yes, even the few minutes I've been here have been most valuable.
Leslie (Sunnie) - I think most everyone who was here found answers to their questions.
Tom Nixon - Anyone who would like to contact me with specific questions can write to tcnixon@yahoo.com.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Wendy you can email Tom or me if you have questions later on too.
Tom Nixon - Thanks, Wendy.
Leslie (Sunnie) - My email is DLinstructor@yahoo.com
Tom Nixon - Thanks for setting this up, Sunny. We'll have to do it again sometime.
Leslie (Sunnie) - Tom - your new book is about....?
Tom Nixon - Okay, so I can't spell "Sunnie". Sigh...
Leslie (Sunnie) - That's ok
Tom Nixon - My new book is about the many different ways to earn a high school diploma -- online and correspondence high schools, alternative hs, GED, charter schools, homeschooling, etc.
Tom Nixon - I'm working on a second book for Ten Speed Press called "Bears' Guide to Earning a High School Diploma Nontraditionally." If you have thoughts on the topic, feel free to send them to me at tcnixon@yahoo.com.
Tom Nixon - I just signed the contract with Ten Speed last week. It will be out this fall (which means I have a lot of writing to do very soon).
Leslie (Sunnie) - Good night Wendy and Tom. And thanks again Tom.
Tom Nixon - And thank you.
