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elle - So, what should we talk about?
satb - Is anyone here a candidate for National Board or is this just a chat for Kindergarten teachers?
milymo - We made this huge snowball with my pm class yesterday. We were going to see how long it would take to melt, but neighborhood kids knocked it down after school
elle - I am here to discuss K
elle - I am doing a winter unit too
Paulie - too bad milymo
satb - ok
elle - but it was 60 degrees here yesterday lol
elle - I am in Nebraska, we usually have snow , but not when I need it to snow
milymo - LOL elle! It was about 46 degrees yesterday, so the snow was melting, but it was perfect weather to be building stuff with snow!
elle - Have you read The Snowy Day Paulie?
Paulie - Yes The Snowy Day is a favorite
elle - I like The Mitten by Jan Brett
elle - So does anyone have students that are reading?
Barb - About half my class is reading at level 3 or 4
milymo - We read, "Emily's Snowball, The World's Largest" before making our snowball yesterday. (Actually, there is still a huge pile of snow from our ball, where the buses park!)
el - My kids loved doing the Mitten. I had them draw the animals hiding on white paper and used the glue and shaving cream to highlight snow. The pictures turned out real cute.
elle - that is a cute idea, el
milymo - That's great Barb! Do you know how that correlates with Fountas and Pinnell levels?
el - wish I could say half of my students were at level 3 or 4. Have 2 at level 10.
Paulie - I never had any luck with shaving cream -- tried to use it for cleaning desktops so it smelled good but the stuff did not come out as lather from the can so I don't waste my money buying it anymore for anything
Barb - That is level B or C
elle - I am not familiar with the levels, can someone explain please
Barb - Level 10 are really good readers. That's great!
el - I buy the cheap cream.
Paulie - el -- I had bought 3 containers of some that was cheaper but when it doesn't lather up after u shake it I guess it was cheap
el - I can't take credit for the level 10 readers, they were doing some reading before they started school.
Barb - Reading Recovery levels are numbers. Fountas & Pinell are letters. Most of the Wright Group and Rigby books have been leveled.
el - we use the DRA (directed reading assessment) to determine levels. Our level 3 is reading readiness.
elle - ok, so the higher the letter or number, the better reader a child is?
Barb - Right. Kindergartners in our district are supposed to be at level 4 at the end of the year.
milymo - Ugh! Mily babe kicked me out!
elle - I have 6 that are reading those short vowel readers, they have come a long way since the beginning of the year
el - we can't assess the k kids beyond level 16, even though there is the rare kid who could read on a higher level
elle - and I still have some that struggle with learning the letters and sounds
Paulie - Mily babe?
Barb - Mine have too. I did not have any readers at the beginning and several who gave number answers for the letter ID
milymo - My 2 year old!
elle - Has anyone tried any Guided reading?
Paulie - three years ago I ahd a boy who could read anythign i put before him so I got the dolch story with all the words off the dolch list in it and he read it with no practice
midstride - are there any teachers here from NJ ?
milymo - I am getting ready to try some guided reading elle.
milymo - I just got some books from our Title teacher today.
elle - I am starting next week with some guided reading
Barb - I started with the higher kids in late October and added a group each week.
elle - I want to do it with all of my kids, I have some wordless books for my kids that are still struggling
cs - I use guided reading.
elle - is it working for those of you doing it, have you found any "pitfalls"
cs - Elle, why wordless books? why not just keep them in small group shared reading?
laura/md - I use guided reading
Paulie - If you have some rigby predictable readers u can get those little ones who are not reading, reading -- they memorize it and think they are reading so gives them confidence
Barb - The hardest part is keeping the rest of the class busy so you have ten minutes with the group.
laura/md - we started at the beginning of the year with predictable text books
elle - I guess that would work too, cs
karen - How do you fit guided reading in when you have half-day Kindergarten?
elle - Never thought of doing that, that would probably be better than the wordless books
laura/md - my kids go to literacy/math centers for 45-60 minutes a day
Paulie - some are just getting ready for those predictable books tho so they are important all year long if you do individualized work
laura/md - i pull the groups then
milymo - I can imagine that's hard Barb. I'm trying to adjust my schedule in my head to figure out how I will do it.
elle - I do mine during center time, karen, but I go all day, every other day
Barb - When I taught half-day the only way was to do it during center time with my partner teacher supervising centers.
Paulie - I think all K should be able to go all day long
milymo - I have don't have any aide time.
elle - I have my other kids doing Literacy centers while I work with a group
Paulie - every day
elle - it works really well
karen - I only have parent volunteers two times a week and they are sometimes more work than the kids are.
Barb - Neither do I. When we went to class size reduction (20 to 1) we lost all aides.
laura/md - our county is moving to all day- in the next 2-3 years
elle - my class is split and half come M-W and the other half T-Th and all on Friday
laura/md - elle, how is that better than half day?
karen - I agree that K needs to be all day. But I am in state that does not put out much money for education.
karen - elle, I think that would be ideal if the powers that be would approve your schedule.
elle - because I get my kids for a longer period of time, a whole day as opposed to a half a day , everyday
Paulie - when I taught in CA we ahd class size red 20-1 and a team teacher and a 3 hr aide for each session
milymo - For people who have half days, how long is each session?
elle - I really like it, I would like to go all day , every day, but we do not have the space to do that right now
karen - elle, how many kids do you have on Friday?
Barb - You were really lucky, Paulie!
Paulie - my half days were 3 and half hours each
elle - I have 19 on Friday, I have had up to 23 on Fridays in years past
Shea - We have a little less than 3 hours per class
karen - each session is 3 hours monday through thursday and 2 hours on friday.
laura/md - wow- so you only have 10 the other days?
karen - elle, how many kids do you have on the other days?
laura/md - we have 2 1/2 hours
elle - yes
Paulie - yes barb I know how blessed to have team teacher AND aide
elle - there is a lot to be said for a smaller class size
karen - lucky you elle!!!
milymo - That's what we have laura!
laura/md - wow
Paulie - I would like to ahve just 15 and no aide I did in full day K one year
milymo - I have 14 in my am and 11 in my pm. The 11 are in an extended day program. They are the ones who need a boost before first grade.
laura/md - i have 19 am and 16 pm
milymo - My pm class is a handful at times!
karen - I have 19 am and 18 pm
laura/md - karen you teach 2 three hour sessions?
elle - my classes are very different also, like night and day
Off-Track - Some of you do an AM and a PM?
lori - I have 15 full day Mon, Wed and every other Friday
Paulie - oh yes did two sessions so you could be full time
karen - yes I do
cs - i have all day 20 kids
Barb - I have all day 20 kids as well
karen - My two classes are very different. One very bright and one struggling.
Off-Track - cs...I envy you. With the standards and expectations they have now in K in my state, I think a few more hours could help ease a lot of the rush
elle - We are dealing with standards now too , offtrack, it is not fun at all
Off-Track - Has anyone seen or bought the new Pinnell/Fountas Phonics book for Kindergarten?
Barb - It has helped a lot. Before we didn't have time to do any play--just literacy, literacy, literacy. Don't look at the blocks--just read and write.
elle - No, I didn't know that they even had a book for K
Paulie - Lori you should come on Tuesday nights every week we have early childhood/primary chat here at 9 eastern til midnight eastern
lori - cs, do you teach all day every day?
Off-Track - You guys can download a few lessons from the book it is at First Steps (a link within Heinemann) http://www.heinemann.com
Barb - I just got a copy. I have tried a couple activities, but will probably need the summer to absorb it before I fully implement it.
cs - I can't imagine just 1/2 day...I rush all day anyway!!! I don't have a minute to spare. I have kids that come to school very inexperienced and have to learn English too. We don't have much spare time. I personally like the standards. It has cut out much of the fluff that existed around before.
milymo - Do your half day kinders get any outdoor recess?
elle - I found their guided reading book at a Good will store for 60 cents
milymo - What a deal elle!
karen - We have a 15 minute recess on Mon - Thurs.
Off-Track - barb- the lessons are intended to take around 15 minutes
Paulie - what kind of fluff are u talking about?
cs - I teach all day everyday. I love it. I don't have much aide time. I like being with them by myself.
lori - I am trying hard to implement the Building Blocks, but being in a very small rural town in ND and the only kind. teacher, it is a challenge. I find the Blocks to be wonderful, but am so crunched with so little time. I know just what you mean when you say you have such varied skills and levels of experience in your students!
milymo - I take mine out if I feel like braving the weather, otherwise I just keep on teaching.
Shea - Our recess is part of our gym time.
cs - fluff like everybody in every grade teaching penguins.
elle - we get PE in the morning and 15 minutes in the afternoon
karen - Does everyone have specials?
Paulie - cs why is that fluff if the older they get the more they add to learning base?
Off-Track - lori- do you do a predictable chart a week?
milymo - Lori, I am trying Building Blocks too for the first time. I do better with the predictable charts than with the predictable books.
Barb - In CA there are no specials
cs - they aren't adding to the learning base is the problem.
elle - I use Building Blocks, I love it
lori - Yes, I am with you milymo, I find the Pred. Charts one accomplishment this year. I am now fired up to implement KidWriting.
Shea - We don't have specials. Just PE
Paulie - lori but with such varied skills in your class, it si great to use BB as it is individualized they get what they need where they are from doing the activities
elle - the Predictable Charts are wonderful
karen - Barb, I'm sorry that you don't. But I'm glad that UT is not the only one.
milymo - We have library one time and music one time a week for 30 min. My extended day class has art for 30 min (if the art teacher gets there in time).
elle - I love Kidwriting!
elle - I feel very lucky, we get Music and PE everyday
lori - Do any of you use parent volunteers to assist you with Kidwriting?
Off-Track - elle- have you turned the charts into big books? I love that. We have around 20 now and they are chosen more often than the "quality literature".
Paulie - BB and Kid writing go together I think
elle - I don't Lori
milymo - I did Four Blocks for the 2 previous years with my 2nd graders. I loved it, but I am not feeling as accomplished with Building Blocks.
karen - Lori, I don't
JenTX - Do you do kidwrtg every day
Barb - Last year I did, but this year I don't have parents available at that time.
elle - we do turn our charts into books, the kids love to read them
Paulie - milymo that is because it is your first yr using BB
elle - I try to do Kidwriting every day, but we don't get to it everyday, it takes a lot of time as I don't have any help
milymo - I suppose that's true. I would like to try Kid Writing if I'm still in kinder next year.
Off-Track - lori- I like Kidwriting also. I use it when it first came out. I have moved into individualized interactive writing followed by independent writing using journals. To make things more complicated they want us to use 6-trait writing in Kindergarten
JenTX - how long do you spend for each session
lori - Can I expect to spend at least 20-30 min. each time for Kidwriting?
Barb - What is 6 trait writing?
Paulie - 6 trait in K???????? are they nuts??????
elle - we are suppose to use 6 traits too, but , I am so bad, I don't do the 6 traits, I like KW so much more
cs - sounds like it
JenTX - Off-Track-We are focusing on 6 T's too
elle - at least 20 -30 minutes, lori
lori - We are implementing 6 traits in our school, and the only trait I have introduced is Voice, which is quite easy to do.
Paulie - Jen why do they use 6 traits with K?
Off-Track - barb- its from the northwest regional lab that teaches process writing...
elle - depending on how many kids you have, lori
JenTX - Lori, I've used ideas and word choice
lori - I have 15 kids, two are Down's, and have an aide.
elle - if you have an aide that will help a lot
Off-Track - Jen- any good K sites that have good activities for K that focus in on 6 trait
JenTX - rly these days! I would like the upper grades to take a few of our workshops like writer's workshop
lori - I really loved using different versions of Twas the Night B4 Christmas and the Miss Nelson books for teaching them to catch on to Voice. My Down's kids are so severe that the aid must be close at hand for them so I get no aid help at all.
JenTX - OFF Track-Idid a search with 6Traits & found a few sites, but didn't bookmark them
elle - does anyone do author studies?
Off-Track - Jen- lots of sites but are they good for K?
lori - We are doing a Jan Brett study right now!
JenTX - elle, did you train your aide to help with writing
elle - so are we , lori
elle - we have done Kevin Henkes, Tommie DePoala and Jan Brett
elle - yes I did, Jen
Paulie - I forgot what does Henkes write?
Emily - He wrote Chrysanthemum
Off-Track - elle- have you tried doing a predictable chart using an author....How are Kevin Henke's books' similar?
Paulie - o right thanks was brain dead
lori - Must go, I am making big book of Dr. Jean's shape song. thanks everyone, and have a great weekend.
elle - Lily and the Purple , Plastic Purse
Paulie - thanks Emily
JenTX - And Lily's Purple Plastic Purse!
Emily - and Lily's Plastic Purple Purse
JenTX - Lori, tell us about your book
elle - I love Lily
Paulie - Yes I just could not think of Kevin's books for the moment
Emily - I love his books, but my kids this year get too wiggly during them.
Paulie - I even use them with upper grades
elle - how do you say his last name, I have always said "Henks" but I heard it is pronouced "Henk-us"
Off-Track - gotta go also...nice chatting
laura/md - Paulie- did you find a job?
JenTX - Are they a young group, Emily
Emily - I always say Henks or sometimes henkeeees
lori - The book is simply made up of shapes Dr. Jean has in her song like Momma Circle, baby triangle, etc. I drew some out on big const. paper and made into a big book and will make little copies for my kidlets. So long and goodnight!
JenTX - Off track let's talk on K board for 6 traits
Paulie - I thought is soundsed like hanks
janel - i know this is for kindergarten but do you all have ideas for preschool
Emily - my group seems kind of immature this year. I have a handful of young ones
elle - ok, need to get my little ones to bed, nice chatting with everyone
Paulie - janel what you looking for?
Emily - what kind of ideas are you looking for Janel?
Paulie - and janel be sure to come to the Tues nite chats too
janel - i need to know what you think is appropriate as far as curriculum and educational standards go
milymo - The boys in my class are more mature than the girls this year. There work is so neat and they have great imaginations.
Emily - I think introduction of the letters is good in pre-k
Paulie - preschool need lots of things to grow with other kids not dittos
Emily - lots of thematic studies where the kids get to explore is good too
janel - i guess that i'm just looking for reassurance that what i'm doing is appropriate
Paulie - lots of songs and even phonemes in songs would be good
JenTX - agree on the dittos Paulie
Paulie - lots of things to use those sm muscles like cuting playdo with scissors
janel - i'm not into worksheets anyway... the only worksheet like things I do are some cutting and some name writing
Emily - most of the reall good prek stuff had singing and dancing and getting messy as a part of every day
JenTX - how long in prek, Janel
janel - the students are there all day.... this is my first year
Paulie - lots of sharing and reading good books to them and with them
Paulie - time to play and explore
Emily - Lakeshore has a great box, it is filled with recipies for learning.
JenTX - what are your favorite songs to learn letters & sounds
janel - what's it called?
Emily - It has great ideas to use in prek where the kids are learning through fun activities
JenTX - milymo, that was quite a mouthful there
janel - we use the kids' names to teach the beginning sounds... other than that we don't directly discuss the sounds
Paulie - you can do counting songs with them too
janel - i guess what I want to know is what should i set as expectations for them
janel - we do the greg and steve counting rock song....
Emily - I have to check. My best friend has it... I think it is Recipies for learning. It comes in a recipie box and each idea in on a seperate card.
JenTX - I use the names to teach sounds, too, but want a daily song
milymo - I love Greg and Steve!
Emily - I love Greg and Steve. I use them all the time
janel - what kind of counting songs do you mean?
JenTX - cs, couldn't stay away huh?
janel - i have several songs i do each day.... but they aren't to teach sounds necessarily
Emily - I do willaby wallaby wee... and then change the first sound as we study each letter and then the elephant sits on Karla, or Farla, or Marla as we go through the letters
janel - we just started doing the greg and steve abc rock song... i love it
cs - Okay...I walked past my computer and read a line or two...Janel...it is great that you are using just their names to teach the beginning sounds. You should be focussing on phonemic awareness kinds of things. Read up on that. No paper and pencil stuff. All of the other stuff that everyone mentioned is awesome too...all play related. I can't think of any good preschool books to read. Bobbie Fisher's books are good. Dr. Jean's book called Transitions is good too. I have to go now really my baby is crying.
Paulie - do lots of nursery rhymes hjanel
janel - they loved that willaby thing.
JenTX - my kids loved willaby
Lucy - Discovery Toys has a cd with ABC sounds It is great just started using with my 5's they are catching on .
Paulie - Froggie books are good for preschoolers
Emily - My kids get a kick out of it, and they just laugh and laugh.. every week
Lucy - Love Clifford books
janel - they love the willaby thing... but i like to have a variety of things....
janel - nursery rhymes for the rhyming or for the content...
Emily - Cooking is great to do, you can hit on science, math, literacy
Paulie - I said berenstain Bear Books are great too
Paulie - nursery rhymes for the phonemes
Emily - make Wonderful Winter Waffles
JenTX - this is the first year I haven't done much cooking. Sure miss it.
janel - ha... we're studying w this week and next... thanks!
Paulie - u can use nursery rhymes for lots of ways tho used to be kids came to school knowing them all but many parents don't teach teheir kids them now a days
janel - ooops.... lucy
Emily - I can't because I have no access to an oven, but I think it is great
janel - same here... no oven... but i do have a griddle....
Paulie - Emily can u ask the PTA for an oven for the classroom
Emily - There was a study that said children who had nursery rhymes when young scored better on tests as they grew up.
Paulie - you can also cook in hot pot
janel - only i dont have the supplies - ie i will again buy them
janel - hmmmm. good to know
Paulie - amen Emily that is why I said nursery rhymes
JenTX - Nursdery rhymes are easy to bag up in ziploc bags
Emily - ha ha... our PTA doesn't have that kind of money. I am in the South Bronx
Paulie - janel are u in public or private school?
JenTX - how many kids emily
Emily - 22 and I am by myself
janel - public... i run on a grant program... but the way they want me to go about getting supplies it's just easier if i get it myself
Paulie - one year our PTA gave us 200 dollars for field trips or whatever we had parents drive so that saved us the money for fees for entrance to some places
janel - what???????
janel - how old are your kids emily
Emily - I have some serious behavior management issues this year.
Emily - kindergarten
JenTX - I have 20 & share an aide with 3 other teachers. I feel so luck.
janel - what do you do with the nursery rhymes once they are in the bags jen?
janel - i have 16 4's.... and a full time associate
Emily - this is my first year totally alone and I feel pretty overwhelmed
JenTX - Add animals, games, pointers, etc
Paulie - you can make literacy center games with nursery rhymes and bag them in ziplocks or file folders laminated shut on 3 sides
janel - i'm a little slow... can you tell me what they do?
Paulie - Emily we are here every Tues nite for help and support
janel - with the rhymes?
Emily - That is good to know. I definately need it.
janel - i have another question.... do you guys ever feel like you are completely overwhelmed... can't take it anymore and want to quit?
Sunny - I am now awaiting my K certification. I try to sub as much as I can in K. I don't know how K teachers do it! They are so organized! I don't know where to begin when I get my class!
JenTX - Overwhelmed? Yeh! All the time...especially during testing
Emily - yeah. at about 1 every afternoon, but then someone says something great and I remember why I am doing this.
Sunny - Jen, what testing do you have in K?
Emily - Do you have to do midterms too?
janel - thanks paulie.... i went to another site, and they kept saying if you feel that way, you aren't a true teacher and you should leave the profession
Paulie - Sunny keep coming to these chats and the Tues nite ones too and check out the Tnet chat board for ideas and help
Paulie - o how terrible janel gee whiz
JenTX - We have TPRI (Texas Primary Reading and DRA (Developmental Reading Assessment).Inventory)
Sunny - I will. I usually frequent the sub board because I'm still subbing. but since I've decided to teach K, I try to come to all EC chats if I can.
JenTX - sunny, any job possibilities
Paulie - and go to the K board too if you do nothing but read
janel - wow paulie... that's a long time.... i bet you find it fairly helpful though...
Sunny - What do you do with the TPRI, Jen? Does it take all year to do, or is it all over in one shot?
Emily - Kindergarten is wonderful. It is hard... really really hard, but it is so great,
JenTX - yeh, all the neat ideas come from the k board
Paulie - sure do and feels good to help others too janel U will be surprised how much YOU have to share too
Sunny - Not too many job possibilities right now. this is my 3rd year
JenTX - We test beginning, middle, and end
Jay - where are you guys from? i'm Canadian
janel - where are you sunny?
janel - i'm from iowa
JenTX - where are you sunny
Paulie - sunny I subbed 8 long years before getting first job
Paulie - WA state now
Emily - We are having a week of literacy testing next week and then a week of math the following week
Sunny - I'm hoping that a K room will open this fall because of an overflow of children. Even if I get a half day K, that would be fine.
Paulie - in K Emily?
JenTX - in little towns, Paulie & Sunny
Sunny - I'm in RI...gosh, Paulie! 8 years! What kept you going?
Emily - You should come to New York City, we are looking for teachers all the time
janel - the k teachers here do dibels and some other nation wide
JenTX - how do you test math, emily
Paulie - oh no this is a big place we have two school districts there are so manypeople
Paulie - Emily I would consider that do u have the address for placement office?
Emily - Yes the tests are in K. We do about 4 questions a day becasuse the other k teacher and i don't believe in that sort of testing for k
Paulie - where are u in NY Emily?
Paulie - good for u Emily
Sunny - I'm in a "small" town- but everything in RI is small!
JenTX - jay, how's the weather up there right now
janel - i've heard that half day is even more difficult than full day simply because there's no time
Emily - 100 Livingston St. Brooklyn... that is the Board of Ed. I am in the South Bronx in New York City.
JenTX - funny, funny, sunny
janel - sunny - what's small?
Paulie - Gosh for math I jsut tested recognition of shapes and see if they could write or recognize numbers to 10
Sunny - I don't know if I like the whole testing in K idea. they are so young at that age.
Paulie - I needed to eat Sunny lol
JenTX - i hate the testing in k!
janel - with the new legislation though we now have no choice
Jay - not bad JenTX - I'm not out east where thestorms are - I just got back from Fla.
Paulie - I did informal testing
Emily - For math we are doing number recognition to 10, patterns and some vocab, like above and below, middle... that sort of stuff
JenTX - hello mac
janel - NCLB!!! i think it should be called no teacher left standing
Sunny - Well actually, i'm in the 2nd biggest city in RI, but I'm not sure how many people. Let's put it this way, it takes 40 min to drive from onbe end of the state to the other!
Paulie - do u have zip code emily?
Sunny - I hear that, Paulie! LOL
Sunny - Janel, LOL!
JenTX - lucky you in Fla...vacation?
janel - i teach in a district where they had to combine three towns (villages actually) to make something big enough for a school
Emily - I like performance testing. When the child shows how they mastered the concept in an activity. I don't like paper and pencil tests
Jay - we test up here using Brigance and DRA
Paulie - janel NCLB stinks
Sunny - I agree, Emily. That makes more sense. I've heard of pencil and paper tests in K.
janel - i use brigance with my kids too jay
JenTX - I like DRA, but it's time consuming!
Paulie - Emily? zip code?
Paulie - brigance is for testing before entrance I thought that is what we used anyway
Emily - Wait here is the actuall adress... The City School District of New York Division of Human Resources 65 Court Street Brooklyn NY 11201
Jay - you bet - toured from Miami to the Keys to Crystal River - Daytona - back to Miami
Emily - telephone 718 935-2642
Sunny - Lucky you, Jay
Paulie - I made up informal test to see if kids could write their first and last names and see if they could write any letters and numbers but it was very informal one on one
janel - we use it to measure growth... i guess... i think it's redundant... if my kids aren't showing growth based on the beginning and ending test, what the heck am i doing for nine months
janel - paulie - how did you do the letter writing?
Jay - I don't like Brigance - but it's a requirement for entry - we do it three times a year
Sunny - I used to informally test my preschool kids almost the way you described, Paulie. Only I would do it verbally.
Paulie - Emily do you live close to your school?
Emily - Does anyone else use TERC to teach math?
JenTX - do you ever get requests for penpals, Jay? My class had Australian penpals last year.
janel - what's terc?
Emily - I am about 40 minutes away.
Paulie - for colors in K I have these little laminated color cards and flip tehm and kids say color to me
JenTX - terc is investigations, isn't it
Paulie - long communte then
Emily - Its a very hands on math program from Massachusetts. All manipulatives and games. No dittoes or text books
Emily - Yeah its investigations
janel - sounds like dap math
Jay - myabe on the penpal thing - I've got lots of ESL - and behaviour stuff - i'm not sure if my kids are ready for it
Sunny - How do you like that math program Emily? It sounds good.
JenTX - Investigations has pros & cons like all programs
Emily - Its pretty long, but I get the Harry potter books on CD and stuff like taht and the commutes not so bad
Paulie - janel I had soem special paper I amde up with one line of lined paper so to speak I asked them to write their name on it because I wanted to see if they wrote on lines yet. I did not do this first quarter tho they used no lined paper then
mac - we do our own testing and do a district writing test in the fall and spring and then ITBS in the Spring
Paulie - I lvoe hands on stuff
janel - what about what letters they could write... my K teachers want them to know all letters and write all caps....
JenTX - Investigations is good for problem solving, but I felt we started in too soon & didn't like the order our district set for us
Emily - Sunny, I like it in the class but i have a hard time getting everything prepared and so i was hoping for suggestions from old pros.
Paulie - Emily that is one way to do it I would be listening to kids songs lol
JenTX - you do ITBS in K, mac?
Sunny - Where are you in TX, Jen? I went to a job fair once, and the recruiters from TX were hiring right on the spot because they needed teachers so badly.
mac - Yes, it is absolutely terrible!
Jay - how do your kids score on the DRA - we use the Wood@#$% too and my kids always bomb - I think the States has different requirements
Paulie - janel you can just ask them to write all the letters they know on unlined paper but I don't think I would ask 4 year olds to do that
JenTX - San Antonio- Judson School District
Sunny - Wish I could help Emily...
janel - it didn't let him type the test name... ha!
Jay - sorry - Wood@#$%
janel - well, i'm not sure i like the idea either.... but they want them writing all the letters when they get there... what do i do
janel - you can't type cocck
Sunny - I had Killeen trying to hire me. I thought about it, but I decided against it. Too far away for me.
JenTX - I agree about the letters, Paulie. Observe them in centers & save samples of what you see. Put those in their portfolios for assessment
janel - it sees it as a naughty word
Emily - thanks. It is just alot of 15 cubes in a bag for each kid, and then letters on stickers for each kid to spell the name, or learn this game and teach it to the kids...
Paulie - janel they can practice writing letters from names in salt on a cookie sheet
Jay - Oh I get it - the Wood - rooster
Paulie - on paint easel but not formally
JenTX - janel, veteran teachers told me early on to close my door & do what's right by my kids
janel - lol @ jay
Paulie - o brotehr how funny when it is a name of a test
janel - i know.... i know....
janel - i just needed someone to tell me that again i guess
Emily - Have the students trace the letters on fine grain sandpaper
janel - salt tray... good idea..... could i use sugar instead?
JenTX - boy, I'm slow. Just got it, Jay.
Paulie - actually in late K months I allowedtwo kdis to write the room They took a clipboard and pencila nd wrote the words they wanted to -- that made them more aware of letters
Emily - Salt woeks better because of the way that sugar and salt disolve in water
janel - sorry... i'm a moron... duh
Paulie - sugar attracts ants and costs mroe
janel - BUT..... i already have sugar... AND i only have kosher salt at home
Paulie - sandpaper is another way
JenTX - my kids love Write around the Room. This week, they are writing m words on a mitten shape
Sunny - That's a good idea, Paulie. similar to "Read Around the Room" idea.
janel - we made deocrations w/ salt for christmas and i had to put my salt into my blender
janel - oooo.... good ideas jen
Sunny - Do any of you teach in full day K?
Emily - Has anyone ever had a REALLY defiant child... not clinical, but always talking back, never following the rules...?
Paulie - and also usign scissors to cut playdo helps fine motor skills and also using a tweezer to pick colroed rice u dyed out liek all the gree grains
JenTX - the kids might eat the sugar. You know kinder
Emily - I teach full day K
Paulie - nope most of my K were wonderful kids wanting to learn
janel - but sugar's good!! mmmmmm
Jay - we wrote in shaving cream once - and in pudding - fun but messy
Paulie - Sunny my first year of teaching I ahd full day K and I loved it
JenTX - my kids get a lot of fine motor practice with nose picking. do yours
Emily - Becasue I am having real difficulty with one student
janel - we did shaving cream.... we had more on the floor and in their hair than i got accomplished
Paulie - Jay, yes those are good too but you do the pudding on waxed paper or paper plates and it si ok
JenTX - hello annie
Annie - Yes Emily, I have. Very hard work.
janel - sick... i have one who's going to pull his brain out of his nose one day i think
Paulie - if you do shaving cream on desks it makes the desks smell so good when you wipe them clean
Emily - Yesterday he told me " I can do what i want, I can go where i want, I can smoke, I can cross the street."
Sunny - I wondered how it was to teach full day. That's rare around here. i guess it would be a little easier to have the same kids all day.
Sunny - Jen- LOL!!
Paulie - JEN that is gross Idon't encourage that
Jay - Emily - I have two right now - coded ODD - one's more likable than the other one
Paulie - hi Annie
JenTX - I teach full day. You guys are miracle workers in half day
Sunny - hi Annie
Paulie - I ahve taught two sessions of half day also and it is so much nicer to have one group all day
mac - We have 12 full day Kindergartens and they have been that way for twelve years
JenTX - Paulie, I have Kleenex all over the classroom
Emily - I hate to say it, but i think mine is just a spoiled brat. I don't know what to do with him, though.
Paulie - Emily how sad
janel - jen - we have one kid who will walk around with a kleenex handing from his nose... it's disgustin
Paulie - mac how wonderful where is yoru school?
Sunny - Sometimes half day is harder...more kids. instead of 20, you might have around 40 because if there are 20 in each K session.
JenTX - emily, what do your co-workers say to do
Jay - we do two full days a week
Paulie - Jen I have Kellnex around too but never had that trouble
Emily - I troied behavior goals, sticker charts, time ous, parent confrences, taking away privliges. It just seems to get worse.
janel - me tooo jen... i just snap my fingers... even if i don't look at them they know i want them to stop... and everything that anyone is doing wrong stops... it's so cool
Paulie - janel that is great
JenTX - how long has it been going on, emily
janel - jen - try getting the room more humid
Annie - Mine destroyed my room Emily, tearing up children's work and wall posters, flipping desks, throwing tacks, kicking other children.
Paulie - Jay why jsut two full days?
JenTX - how janel
Emily - Paulie, It is sad, but what i am really worried about is that I am loosing credibility with the other kids. I mean this one talks back and does what he wants all the time...
janel - my kleenex hanger boy stopped with the nose thing after we tried that
Paulie - Annie did that child ahve an IEP
janel - i just took some small pie tins and placed them on the heater
janel - they will evaporate when the heater turns on
janel - just refill them each day
Paulie - good plan janel
janel - then you can have the kids discover where the water goes
Paulie - lol How long is this chat?
Annie - No, just plain misbehaviour. (oh and a tough background)
JenTX - thanks, janel. allergies are bad in TX
Emily - Jen, since the beginning of school. It always starts out with a little thing, but then by the end he is talking back, threatening kids, its just not good.
JenTX - where are you annie
Annie - This behaviour happened Paulie in the first week I had him at school.
Paulie - Emily, no support from parents?
Jay - i did this great program a few years ago that I have to start again - the kids decided what the rules should be so they could have a better classroom - then we set up a reward system so they could earn rewards for good behaviour - my problem kids were smart - they usually are - and they didn't get the attention they usually did - the well behaved ones were getting reinforced every day - and as a class they encouraged each other too - it worked very well
Annie - Plans done since,but very tough. Australia JenTX
Paulie - maybe he needs a big brotehr from another class that can give him extra attention each day for a little while
JenTX - emily, iI had one like that Aug thru Oct. He moved away Halloween & I love my class now. My student was horrible the first day
Sunny - I've heard of that approach, Jay. Did you have a lot of class meetings?
Emily - The mother is actually pretty supportive. we talk regularly. I know from his brother that he gets punished at home or misbehavior at school. But the mother seems to be out of ideas there too.
janel - if the pie tins don't work.... get some water and keep in on their desks.... or my peers suggested having the students put lotion on their hands... when they put their fingers in their mouth the taste is awful.... another idea is to have them keep gloves on... maybe don't let them use the materials - tell them they will spread germs
Jay - two full days - Mon/Wed and Tues/Thurs programs
Emily - I will have to find a good big brother. Unfortunately we don't have a big brother program set up.
Paulie - Emily u need a individual behavior chart for him on his desk for a week at a time
JenTX - our school has a mentoring program for kids
Paulie - mp with smilie face when he has a good day 5 good days gets praise and reward
janel - annie... does he have his own desk?
Paulie - Emily I asked the 5th gr teacher to be reading buddies with my kids
Emily - We did that for a while and at first it seemed to work, but then later it wore off, What kind of chart are you thinking of?
Annie - Emily maybe find an older student to work with your child, maybe one that has similar problems but would act responsible when in charge of a younger student.
Sunny - Emily, if he has a lot of misbehaviors, maybe try working on with him at a time. The behavior chart would be good for that.
janel - if the behavior chart is on his desk he has constant reminders of where he is and what he can do
Paulie - 20 minutes a week is all half the kids stay in my room and half go to 5th gr at semester we switched who went where
Jay - we did at first - every kid got their say - what bothered them and how they wanted there class to be - it was great for the kids that try hard to be good and have to put up with the difficult ones just as much as I do
Sunny - I meant try working on ONE misbehavior at a time. Sorry
janel - set two or three simple goals... each time you catch him/her doing those goals, give him/her a sticker... after five, they choose reward
JenTX - you might need to begin with a half day plan where he earns a rewared am & pm.A behavior plan really helps you focus on a few behaviors, so you can ignore the little annoying ones. Plus, you start to see some positives & that's probably hard right now.
Paulie - one behavior at a time and smilie face chart to remind him
Sunny - I like the whole class meeting/setting up your rules idea, but as a new teacher, i'm not sure I'd be bale to pull it off.
Emily - Do I focus on the talking during the lessons (which usually set the whole thing off) or on the talking back and refusal to listen that ensues?
Paulie - a rubber stamp works as good as stickers
Emily - and threatening f students and destruction of property?
Sunny - Bale? Oh my! I meant be able...
Paulie - Emily just one of those have to break it down so it can be successful
Annie - Janel, we tried that with my kid but he was so hot and cold, and could not take on consequences or responsiblity. If he did the wrong thing he would run away or destroy things if you said anything to him about the behaviour that could not be ignored.
Paulie - sunny we all make typos one time or another
Jay - i find it really frustrating when a child like that takes so much away from the other ones who are trying so hard - he gets all these rewards for one little good thing he does - like a slurpee or something - and the others get nothing
Paulie - ne we are K teachers I am hoping all can read it hehehehehehe
JenTX - I used a laminated chart & my student go to draw the smiley faces on. He was in charge of washing it off every morning to begin again. He earned smelly stickers or got to do jobs for me.
Emily - Annie, that is the kind of thing that is happening with me.
Annie - I agree Jay.
Paulie - Annie is it possible to jsut stand by him and not talk about the behavior then
Emily - I have to say, Jay that I feel the same way.
Paulie - Jay so true
Sunny - Emily, you might be able to ignore some of the talking back. Tell him that you will talk with him about his behavior a little later, and leave it at that. Sometimes, the more that you address the talking back, the worse that it gets. I find (with all ages) that it's better to walk away and end the discussion before it escalates.
janel - what if you give him additional things to do instead of prizes
Paulie - Jen . . . good plan
JenTX - I agree, too, Jay. I don't like food rewards though
Paulie - but with a laminated chat there is nothing to take hoem to shwo parents
janel - if he's so busy with things to do he doesn't have time to misbehave
Annie - Emily, I have just finished the year with this child!I was glad to go on holidays, and I won't have him this year. People say I'm smiling a lot more at the moment!
JenTX - thanks, paulie
Paulie - or rewards can be to be a helper for u
janel - you could have him fill out a report each day to take home
Emily - I tried ignoring m but it really is so rude and he just yells it over the story or the lesson, or his classmated that it is pretty hard to ignote
Paulie - Annie where are u that yoru year is finished?
Annie - No Paulie, as he could be quite violent, even hitting and kicking me, with me just being there.
JenTX - Iwe use folders that go home every day. I just devided the square in half for that day & put s smiley in the am or a smily in the pm. It was fast to do at the end of the day.
Sunny - Do you try separating him? I know sometimes that stops it.
Paulie - sometimes there is not time to fill out reports
Jay - when the other kids get a chance to say to this kind of kid how his behaviour affects them sometimes it has an impact
Paulie - especially if soem have to catch bus some ahve to go to day care some have to wait for parents etc
Emily - When we came back from vacation i started class jobs. This child refused to make a hand to go on the chart so this week he has no job. Now he wants to make a hand. He will get to tomorrow.
Annie - Australia Paulie
Sunny - I agree, Jay..because it comes from his peers, not his teacher.
janel - i do it during my snack time... just a simple thing where he circles what his behavior was and i simply scribble why it is what it is
Paulie - sorry annie
Paulie - oic Annie I thought school was jsut starting in Feb thwere?
Jay - do you have an assistant Emily?
JenTX - do you have a teacher that can handle short time outs so you can get a break, janel
Paulie - janel good plan
janel - no... i'm with the kids from 8 to 3:30... i have a full time assoc.
Annie - Yes, Paulie , back in 1 and a half weeks.
Emily - Sunny, the child refuses to get up and go to his seat. He just sits there and stares at me when i ask him to go sit time out.
Paulie - oic well glad u will ahve a new group
Emily - No Jay I am alone
Annie - Oh Emily, I know what you are going thru. Each minute is a different challenge!
Jay - did you ever try to physically remove him?
Emily - yeah. Sorry to vent, but sometimes I just have to, ya know?
Paulie - Emily does he learn anything?
Sunny - Maybe try giving him a choice....either he moves on his own, or you will help him.
janel - could he do what he has to where he is
Paulie - Emily we are here for support
Emily - I can't. The rules are very strict about touching a child.
JenTX - One kid can just suck all the energy & joy out of you
janel - that way you prevent the escalation...
Annie - Emily, they want 1 on 1 attention by teacher aids, parents, older children if they can get it, especially if it gets them out of classwork. Is he at the lower end of the educational scale so to speak?
Paulie - Sunny teachers "can't help them" because it could be child abuse if u touch them
Emily - I tried the choice thing, but he still didn't move and then turned himself into a lead weight that had to be picked up and i can't do that.
janel - how does mandt training come into play then?
Jay - do you have a principal that could give you a hand?
janel - emily - could he do what he needs to just where he is?
Emily - Actually no, Annie. he is pretty bright. He catches on to phoenemic awareness and he is doing fone in math.
Annie - Emily has he been diagnosed by a paediatrician regarding ADHD?
Paulie - I think he just wants mroe attention I think giving him some responsibility would make him not try to get attention more
janel - can you request a one on one emily?
Emily - I'd be prety surprised if he was ADHD. I think this is more like Annie's kid that was difficult and came from a tough background.
Emily - i have tried to get the AP involved and he is going to meet with me and the parent as soon as the parent gives me a firm date, but I am really by myself in this.
Emily - Paulie, do you mean jobs and all?
Paulie - no Emily u have US!!!!!!!!!!
JenTX - why do you feel like you're by yourself
Annie - Emily, there are lists stating the behaviours to look for regarding ADHD. Maybe it could be the case as that is what mine has been diagnosed with.
Emily - thanks... aw shucks...
Paulie - Emily I mean jsut on e job that is HIS responsibility during this time when he is acting up
janel - i think it's easy to feel like your by yourself when the people who should be helping you aren't
Paulie - something that he would like to do
Emily - I was a clinical psych major. I know the list pretty well actually, I would be surprised... but it could be, I willl look it over again
Paulie - another sunny?
sunny - I'm back...sorry...I didn'y mean to physically pick up the child..I know that's child abuse...but i meant if he sat in a chair, maybe move the chair over gently.
Paulie - or did Sunny get bumped?
janel - jay what do you do with the brigance results
sunny - Same Sunny...I got knocked off line and my name is stuck up there!!
Jay - I hate to suggest this because sometimes it gives the kid's actions more credibility than they deserve - but I have removed the whole class before - and gone into the gym or library or whatever - just so we can get away from the misbehaviour and not leave him with an audience - for one kid I had that was the most important thing
Paulie - I had a teacher friend who taught first gr Her one little girl could not sit still She was allowed to stand doing ehr work at the child's request and it worked for everyone
JenTX - who was watching the one kid, jay
Emily - Who stayed with the kid?
Paulie - Jay who did u leave the kid with?
sunny - I also thought of maybe moving the group away from him, but I wasn't sure how your room was set up.
janel - emily... can he do his work where he is instead of moving him to his seat each time?
Paulie - lol
sunny - I had a book all about this...I forget the title, but it had a lot of good suggestions.
janel - CAN YOU SEE WHAT I'M TYPING?
sunny - yes, janel!
Paulie - yes I see your words janel
janel - thank you!
JenTX - yes, janel. BIG and clear
janel - i was unsure....
janel - sorry... i know that's internet yelling.... just wanted to make sure
Emily - the moving him to a new seat thing s more of a time out type thing. If he is continually talking during a lesson, I remind him to quiet down, then I will ask him to move away from the person to a new spot to help him. Then if it continues he has to leave the rug or the area...
JenTX - In a movie ahile back, a family talked about a high for the day and a low for the day. What was your high at school today?
Paulie - janel that is a good idea and you ahve said it several times . . . to allow them to do their work whever they are on floor at a table or whatever
janel - it's just that if you prevent the escalation in the beginning you prevent a ton of problems and stress
janel - and get more accomplished!
sunny - Try it, emily. It does work. I don't mean to physically touch him. I know that's not what you'd want to do, But sometimes they are out right defiant, and it calls for more measures, like moving a chair away, moving the group away.
Paulie - jen that is good to always think of a positive too
sunny - I agree, Janel. Preventing escalation is the key.
janel - well... i have to go to bed... thank you for your help.... i hope that your year goes better emily... night!
Paulie - come on Tues nite
Emily - As long as they are not disurbing people, I let my kids stand, ly on the floor or sit at thier table to do writing work, but the times that I have a hard time with him is whole group instruction when listening to a story or taking part in a lesson.
JenTX - get some rest janel
sunny - Good night to everyone. It is late for me.
Paulie - 6 Pacific 9 eastern
Emily - thanks Janel
janel - i will try to... thanks paulie!
Emily - OH mi!!!
Paulie - we all should go probably but it has been interesting
Emily - late for me too! I have to go to bed.
sunny - It's 11 PM here! Long day today. I am subbing in K tomorrow.
Paulie - see u guys Tues nite I hope
Jay - we shut the door - it has a little window - and my assistant or myself took turns checking the window - just to make sure he wasn't doing anything too violent - he cried for a long time - hid under tables - but calmed down eventually
Paulie - have fun sunny
JenTX - we read The Mitten Tree today & the kids drew & colored a hug spruce, then made mittens to decorate it. That was my high for today. You should have senn their happy little fact. Tomorrow we will do interactive writing to go with it.
sunny - I'll try to pop in. Nice talking to you all.
Emily - good night everyone and thanks alot. You gave me some things to think about.
Jay - sorry got booted
Paulie - neato jen
JenTX - bye sunny
sunny - I'm sure i'll have fun. I'll learn some new ideas, too.
Paulie - Emily thanks for the addreess
JenTX - well jay, is it time to go
Jay - night JenTX
