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meeha/ece/tx - Hi everyone! Welcome to tonight's early childhood discussion!
Sparky - I wanted to ask if any of you use science in your daily curriculum?
Sparky - I am scheduled to teach science in EC this summer (or Fall) and I was trying to get an idea of how you use it?
Mary/PA - Sparky, we have to, one way or another
Mary/PA - I integrate it with reading and writing
Mary/PA - With hands on at another time of the day
Mary/PA - or woven into the reading and writing
Sparky - Do you have any sci activity centers in your classroom?
Mary/PA - Sparky, when the topic calls for it
Sparky - Sounds like it's not a priority?
Mary/PA - I was teacing a half day kindergarten program, not much time...if I had more time I'd do more
Mary/PA - Sparky, did you read the chat we had about science activities? - http://teachers.net/archives/ec110999.html
Sparky - No, thanks, I'll check it out..Just found this site recently.
Sparky - Mary, you said you were teaching K, what about now?
Mary/PA - Next year I will be teaching Reading Recovery all day
Mary/PA - just reading and writing with struggling first graders
canuk - Hi. I always included a "discovery centre" when I was EC
Sparky - What does that involve, canuk?
Sparky - I'm doing some informal research to see how and the frequency. Hi meecha!
canuk - It depended on what else we were doing. At one time we had plants under different conditions to see how they responded to lightm dark, water, no water, soil, no soil. The kids would draw what they saw, or record comments on tape
meeha/ece/tx - Sparky to see "how" and the frequency of what?
canuk - Another time we had magnifying glasses and the kids drew what they saw on a large cirlce in the middle of the paper
Sparky - How often, if ever, was science the idea, and activities were based on the science topic, e.g., then using lit to evolve the science topic.
canuk - My first career was a hospital lab technicianm so science was the idea whenever possible!!
meeha/ece/tx - Sparky -- the last twelve weeks of school we studied space ... solar system ... art, lit, songs, etc all pretty much came out of that theme!
meeha/ece/tx - my special needs preschoolers, for the most part, could tell you one or two facts about each of the 9 planets and where they rotate in relation to the sun!
canuk - young kids seem drawn to the natural world
Sarah - I totally agree canuk. Every year I finish up the year with mealworms and they are thrilled
meeha/ece/tx - The topic of the evening is "open", so we can talk about pretty much anything near and dear to your heart. I've heard one person say she would like to discuss handwriting ...
meeha/ece/tx - another topic of discussion tonite seems to be science and using related literature
Mary/PA - Yes, that's meI'd like to discuss penmanship in Kindergarten and First Grade. It seems like not many people are teaching it these days. I have a problem with this and would like to know why.
Mary/PA - Why isn't it being taught?
SOTPTeacher - I would really like to hear your thoughts about handwriting. I am a Kindergarten teacher and I feel I do teach a lot of letter formation informally.
meeha/ece/tx - Mary, the one thing I've heard of late is that getting children to write is more the thrust than the mechanics (motorically speaking)! I agree and disagree at the same time!
Sarah - I can't answer for myself because it is part of my curriculum. I think some people have just let it fall by the way
meeha/ece/tx - I work with special needs preschoolers and teach letter formation about as informally as anyone can!
lori - Mary-it might depend on the teacher
canuk - I have a formal printting program. Later in the year I use it to illustrate alliteratin, and we make a book of tongue twisters - all printing practice
Mary/PA - I get first graders who take for ever to make a letter. They are drawing the letters, kind of scetching them. It really takes all the thinking power they have and there's nothing left to think about the message
zurb - so how about letter formation in junior kindergarten (4yr olds)?
Glenda - Our K teachers are told not to do do in formal HW lessons. Sometimes I wish they would do some. It is hard for us in 1st to break improper letter formation.
Sarah - that might be a little young zurb
SOTPTeacher - No formal letter instruction that young!
Glenda - I agree with Sarah
lori - i agree Glenda
meeha/ece/tx - zurb -- what i teach my kiddos is "top to bottom" and "left to right" ... they get to print IF and WHEN they're ready!
Mary/PA - I feel that by the time the kids get to first grade they should be able to at least form the letters of their names with ease and without a lot of struggle
Mary/PA - And also form the letters in an appropriate manner
zurb - I attended a workshop last week and the teacher was able to do remarkable things with the kids, mind you she had them everyday, allday in a jk program.
canuk - I think letters at four is up to the kid. It can be part of their choices and most of them really want to write their names
SOTPTeacher - How will they ever be ready if they never get a chance to even try?
meeha/ece/tx - When a child wants to learn to print his or her name, I'd rather teach them the correct way to make the letters than to allow them to learn in such a way that the next teacher needs to unteach or reteach the same skill!
Sparky - I think lots of fine motor "work" would help, like just drawing circles.
Mary/PA - meeha, what you you mean "get to print"?
zurb - I think that I'm of the opinion that they can try but the fine motor skills have to be there.
Sarah - Isn't it frustrating to break the habits of bottom to top.
Glenda - I think when they show an interest we should at least show them the proper way, and not let them just "copy" what they see.
Glenda - Do you use the "ball and stick" letter formation?
SOTPTeacher - So what would you do if a child came to you and told you they just wrote their name and the letters are shaky, what would you tell them?
Sarah - yes zurb...it's one of those developmental issues. If their ready there ready
meeha/ece/tx - my little munchkins were interested in the 'daily message' (Today is _____, _____ ___, _____.) so I printed it in yellow marker and they traced it ... learned about upper and lower cases, a few letter sounds, commas (take a breath) and periods (stop signs).
zurb - glenda, would you demonstrate to small groups during centre time to interested kids?
Mary/PA - meeha, I can agree all the way with teaching them the correct way right from the beginning
Mary/PA - Bad habits are really hard to change
zurb - meeha, that sounds really fun!
Glenda - Probably. In fact I would probably go ahead and show all of them the correct letter formation for their own name.
meeha/ece/tx - Mary -- when a child asks for help writing a work I'll help them learn to do it ... or demonstrate ... or whatever it is that the child is requesting -- i never force a child to write if he or she isn't interested!
Sarah - I use an overhead to teach proper handwriting. It usually takes up a 15 min block of time. After awhile, volunteers will come up and practice.
meeha/ece/tx - SOTPT -- when we asked a child to "write" his name on a paper, we learned what his printing looked like and wouldn't rewrite it unless they wanted 'grown-up' print on the page, too! I try to validate the child's efforts and encourage them to keep trying!
Mary/PA - meeha, I see. The trick is to make them interested
zurb - At what time during the year would you show them how to write their names? Everybody seems to have a different opinion. My board is starting everyday, all day Junior kindergarten this fall and it has created some logistic problems for teachers in terms of curriculum.
SOTPTeacher - Are writing supplies available for the children to use on their own like during centers?
meeha/ece/tx - zurb -- I was amazed to see young 3 year olds come in and want to do it! one day a new child traced "is", put the cap back on the marker, made a fist -- shook it and said "Yeah!" We all applauded his work!
Sarah - What grade levels are represented here tonight? 1st here Name writing from the beginning...actually they should be able to write their names by the end of K
meeha/ece/tx - Pencils, pens, crayons, markers, glue are always available!
meeha/ece/tx - ... as is paper ... and chalk at the board!
bette/tx - sarah i am early early childhood
Glenda - Sarah, I teach first also in Tn
Mary/PA - In Kindergarten I start right at the beginning of the year. I give them all a model of their names and then start teaching letter formation...we do BB activities with a new name every day
SOTPTeacher - II had to switch from chalk to dry erase because of my allergies! I teach Kindergarten.
bette/tx - zurb even with my toddlers i write thier names and talk them while writting itl
zurb - meeha, would you then make writing an exploration centre. Let's say with markers, crayons, stampers and the like?
Sarah - Yes, young children love to experiment with a variety of writting tools
canuk - Having different name tags in all sorts of media helps spo they can copy eg sandpaper, laminated namestags and dry erase pens and etch a sketch are great motivators
bette/tx - meeha i start with my early class
meeha/ece/tx - zurb -- it is just there ... same materials are available for art and writing ... and there are teachers all over the room to assist when a child needs help!
bette/tx - canuk i try to write it big on the left side so they can see thier picture and name on the bullentin boards
zurb - does anyone else know of a successful full day every day junior kindergarten program?
bette/tx - name writting needs to start very early not in kindegarten ...
meeha/ece/tx - zurb -- i added high frequency words to the circle area, a lot of my "language delayed" preschoolers could read between ten and thirty words at the end of the year!
bette/tx - zurub what is jr..kindegarten???
zurb - meeha-TEACHERS ALL OVER the room!!! Lucky, lucky!
Sarah - by jr K do you mean pre-K?
meeha/ece/tx - zurb -- i have three teaching assistants!
bette/tx - prewritting starts at a very early age
zurb - bette- sorry, I'm confusing everyone. It's the year before Kindergarten (in Canada)
bette/tx - zurub that is pre-k here public or private....
bette/tx - zurub i taught it for 9yrs pre-k
meeha/ece/tx - Handwriting Without Tears is supposed to be an excellent program for teaching children the antiquated art of handwriting ... i do believe it is as important now as ever!
Sarah - that would be pre-K in US & yes...at our school we have a full day program for 4 yr olds.
bette/tx - i sing alot of thier names with a piggy back song at circle time
SOTPTeacher - We used an activity in the Four Blocks for K teachers (sorry I can't rmember the name) called Student of the day. Everyone writes the name of the student, we interview the student and draw her/his picture. All the pictures go into a book that the student of the day takes home. It is amazing the letter formation and getting to know the class.
zurb - meeha-I wish. This fall, I have 11 four year olds and 13 5 yr olds by myself in the same room all day. wish me luck
Mary/PA - What do you good teachers do to help the child learn to hold the marker/crayon/pencil in an appropriate manner?
bette/tx - zurub that is alot .do you have centers set up?
zurb - Sarah, I would love to see their program
bette/tx - mary mine are still young but i help them hold it the correct way ..and model it for them
KinderTeach - Mary, I work on their fine motor skillls through various activities.
Sarah - Thats a WONDERFUL beginning of the year activity. My 1st graders love interviewing one another and then publishing the results
zurb - SOTPTeacher that sounds great!
meeha/ece/tx - zurb -- 24 kiddos, jk-k split is quite a handful! my 20 kiddos (10 a.m. and 10 p.m.) are all special needs preschoolers, aged 3 - 6 years of age. I'll have some at school 3 hours a day and some there for up to six hours! all kinds of therapies and skills levels happening at once!
SOTPTeacher - The first grade teachers take it a step further and write an entire story about the student of the day.
Sarah - If you're ever in Orland, FL...
meeha/ece/tx - Mary -- O.T. has given me two "tricks" ...
KinderTeach - Sarah, I'm in Orlando area!
Mary/PA - meeha, please share them
meeha/ece/tx - #1 -- have the child hold a quarter (or a nickel) under the ring and little finger of the dominant hand ... then pencil grasp is pretty much a given.
Mary/PA - Oh, that's a good one
meeha/ece/tx - #2 -- give the child very short pencils and crayons and chalk pieces (1 1/2 - 2 inches in length!
Mary/PA - then is fits right in their hand, I see
zurb - what worries me is that I have to juggle the curriculum of pre-k and k at once
SOTPTeacher - What do you think about fat versus regular pencils?
Sarah - Songs like quite a full day Zurb
meeha/ece/tx - SOTPT -- i make both available and let the child select the one he or she is most comfortable with
Mary/PA - is there a good rate of carry over to a longer item?
SOTPTeacher - meeha, I agree.
Glenda - meeha, why short pencils and crayons.
KinderTeach - Most students prefer the regular pencils, Mary...at least in my experience.
zurb - the kids practice at home with regular pencils they can't readily buy the fat ones so it seems pointless to me to teach them with the fat ones if they can't get them anywhere else.
Sarah - Same question here
meeha/ece/tx - Mary -- the very short pencils are too short for the child to use the barrel grasp, there is (virtually) only one way to hold that short of a pencil ... correctly!
meeha/ece/tx - Sarah -- do you have a piece of crayon handy? Try it and see! (I was amazed!)
SOTPTeacher - It seems to me that with little hands, the thinner and shorter the easier for the kids to manipulate.
Mary/PA - I make all sizes available and let the child pick. most of them start out with markers and they are really fat!
meeha/ece/tx - OT also suggested letting kiddos write on vertical surfaces (like the chalkboard) is good for developing the muscles they need to write
Sarah - I guess by the time I get them, they prefer regular size
SOTPTeacher - Sarah what grade do you teach and where?
Sarah - 1st
Sarah - in Orlando, FL
meeha/ece/tx - In theory the "primary" pencils and crayons are easier to manage, as the younger children have less control of their fine motor muscles ... but the kids seem to prefer standard size when give the choice ... with coloring i'm not surprised -- have you tried to color inside the lines ... or draw a fine line with one of those "fat" crayons?
SOTPTeacher - Sorry I forgot! I'm in Rhode Island.
meeha/ece/tx - hi, cheri! this is a meeting for ec teachers ... open topic!
cheri - OH....primary teachers.....you are saints in my book. I will bow out, though...I teach middle kids.
cheri - Bye for now......
meeha/ece/tx - ... i was going to ask cheri what she would like her kiddos to know about penmanship when they came to her door, but she left too soon!
meeha/ece/tx - Mary -- should we talk about pre-writing exercises/activities to build up muscles for handwriting?
Sarah - I have taught 5th & NEATNESS is very important
Mary/PA - Most of my kinderkids were still reaching for the markers as their first choice unless I told them they had to use a pencil. I rarely gave them coloring activities, so maybe that's why
meeha/ece/tx - one spring i was working with a friend's boy ... i taught him about the importance of making his letters equal in size ... and visualizing an invisible line in the middle of a printing space ... one week to neater handwriting!
Mary/PA - They did draw and write every day, but only on blank paper
SOTPTeacher - I'm curious, what comes to mid when anyone hears the term whole language?
Mary/PA - meeha, sure!
canuk - SOTP a great deal of misunderstanding!
SOTPTeacher - I meant that to be mind btw not mid!
meeha/ece/tx - SOTPT ... arms without hands ... those words arent' allowed in my district!
meeha/ece/tx - *grin*
Mary/PA - Does picking up pennies help?
milymo - My horrible student teaching experience, SOTPT!
Sparky - My daughter had difficulty with cursive, so the teacher had her do circles, etc on scrop paper, and that helped develop her skills.
Mary/PA - Play dough?
Sarah - lack of consenses comes to mind
meeha/ece/tx - I understand the concept and believe that "whole language" is a part of the process of learning to read ... teachers need to use a number of different techniques (be eclectic) to get the best results!
SOTPTeacher - milymo can you elaborate a bit?
meeha/ece/tx - Mary -- play dough, pennies, finger painting, sidewalk chalk, matching nuts & bolts, lacing beads, putty,
SOTPTeacher - Shaving cream!!!
Sarah - I think a good concept that got a bad rap. many of the "activities" used in W. Lang. are still used
Mary/PA - Speaking of Play dough, we used it this year for learning about how to make different colors. I'd give them each a pinch of two or three different colors of dough and they'd mix them together to see the magic. I told them to be sure to ask mom if they had play dough at home before they started to mix them there
milymo - My cooperating teacher had worked for many years getting her whole language curriculum together and I just had problems making all the connections that she wanted me to make.
meeha/ece/tx - i tell parents to let their children fingerpaint on the shower wall with shaving cream ... just soap ... won't hurt the kids ... and will help the development!
meeha/ece/tx - give the child koolaid ... or salt ... or jello (dry) ... or ..... in a pie tin and let them "write" letters ... errors are easily erased!
canuk - meeha, baggies with shaving cream inside are great for early printing
SOTPTeacher - Mary I love the mixing colors! I do a big colors unit at the end of the year and I am always looking for ways to create the magic!
milymo - I use Four Blocks now and love it so much.
Sarah - Have you ever given them a little dab on a table top/desk? they they practice their letters.
meeha/ece/tx - canuk -- and fun, too! ... can also do hair gel (colored, like "dippity-do" ... am i dating myself?) in the zipper bag ...
SOTPTeacher - Shaving cream is fun becuase not only does it feel and smell great but it disappears and does not stain.
Sarah - Yes milymo...4 blocks is much easier to incorporate...more structure also
meeha/ece/tx - milymo ... i'm hoping to have enough time to look through 'building blocks' to see what will be appropriate in my setting for the coming year
canuk - SOTP have you tried small clear glass containers on the overhead (like petri dishes) that you can stack to show the combinations?
Mary/PA - Cleans the tables as well
milymo - My co-op teacher was an excellent teacher - I just didn't have the experience that I needed to effectively teach in her class.
meeha/ece/tx - canuk ... using a glass pie plate with water you can add food color drops and "paint the ceiling" ... you'll need to experiment a bit to see just how to make it show there!
Sarah - Here's another topic milymo...teacher preparation during undergrad
Mary/PA - I wonder if you can color shaving cream with different colors and then mix them while they are doing their pre-writing activities
SOTPTeacher - I have never heard of that. I use colored ice cubes and finger paint. I also follow with a seek long birthday unit and we each child can frost their cupcake.
meeha/ece/tx - SOTPT -- do you do the "milk kaliedoscope"?
SOTPTeacher - They get white frosting and have to tell me how to make the color they want.
canuk - If you have droppers to add colors drop by drop and watch the change, also a dot of black felt omn a filter paper, add water drop by drop to see colors unmix!
SOTPTeacher - Please explain the milk kaliedoscope!
Sarah - Yes...sounds intriguing
meeha/ece/tx - The process is the emulsification (break down) of fats in the milk ... "whole milk" at room temperature works best.
meeha/ece/tx - put about 1 - 2 inches (3 - 5 cm) milk in a throw away pie tin.
milymo - I was prepared well to an extent - I was in college during the time that Whole Language was THE answer and Phonics was of the devil.
meeha/ece/tx - drop food coloring in different areas of the pan ... colors side by side, colors separate ...
SOTPTeacher - We also make rainbow jello (layers of jello for every color of the rainbow) and with the green you see the separate parts of blue and yellow in the specks of dry jello in a sprinkling of water.
meeha/ece/tx - slowly drop (a drop at a time) dawn dish liquid at the edge of the dish, onto the milk
Sarah - It's that perpetual ed pendullum. It just keeps swinging
milymo - I was told that whole language was the "right" way to teach and since I always looked up to them I believed every word they said.
meeha/ece/tx - the dish detergent causes a chemical reaction -- emusification -- which causes the milk to move -- colors swirl, some blend, etc.
meeha/ece/tx - my kids have always enjoyed doing that activity!
milymo - Fortunately my experience in two wonderful public schools has brought me to a much happier point today!
canuk - meeha, that sounds delightful
meeha/ece/tx - milymo ... one thing that history has taught me is that there is more than one way to skin a cat ... more than one method for removing the epidermis from a feline ... more than one way to teach reading!
Mary/PA - meeha, that sounds really neat! Do the kids actually do it or do they observe you doing it?
Sarah - In the beginning, we are starting out, that's what we do/did milymo I think as we go along, we find what works for us and our children
bette/tx - this room i giving me troubles..again..brb
SOTPTeacher - milymo that's too bad. Although whole language is more of a personal philosophy, there is no right way for every child.
meeha/ece/tx - when a new methodology come about everyone seems to jump on a bandwagon and leave behind what was working ... just add bits and pieces to your reperetoire (sp?) and build, build, build! the kids will really benefit from that appropach!
Sarah - sorry to hear that bette/tx What's the problem?
meeha/ece/tx - Mary -- i've done it with little pie tins (like pot pies come in) and let kids do it in groups ... and done it where ten kids surrounded the dish and we did it together ...
canuk - Yes, that whole debate to me sounds like, what is more importan, the ingredients or the cake?
Sarah - Amen! meecha...we can't throw the baby out with the water
Glenda - Hi! Milymo and Sarah, I was wondering if the two of you find sharing ideas and planning with other teachers helpful?
milymo - I had to build up my confidence again after my student teaching experience. I came home from college thinking that I might not want to teach. I took a year and a half in fast food and day care and then started to sub.
SOTPTeacher - Most times the methodolgy isn't new it just has a new name and a new set of materials to help some publisher make money. I like four blocks and guided reading but they are really not new concepts. They sure are making a lot of money though!
Sarah - I have a great team. We are always working together...don't always agree but that's how we learn
meeha/ece/tx - milymo -- that is sad ... practice teaching is to build understanding ... not to destroy teachers!
meeha/ece/tx - ... maybe discourage would have been a better word!
milymo - Things started to look up, when I began to sub. I actually enjoyed it!
meeha/ece/tx - SOTP -- they most assuredly are making money ... seems like hand over fist!
milymo - Yes Glenda. Sharing ideas is important!
Sarah - milymo, are you in the classroom now? How long?
milymo - Guided reading is how I was taught SOTPT.
SOTPTeacher - i found a book in our college library and it described every method of teaching taking place in the era. It described phonics to whole language but not with those terms. Turns out the book was written in 1893.
meeha/ece/tx - milymo -- i enjoyed subbing enough that if i could have found a school district to hire me as a full-time sub (full pay, benefits) i would have taken that job! i learned a LOT while guest teaching!
Glenda - I think so too, Milymo. I've found it really helps me to adjust to new programs.
milymo - Yes Sarah! I taught one year of kindergarten and am going on my third year in second grade!
Sarah - Great...glad to hear that you have worked through the bad experience, learned from it and your finding success
SOTPTeacher - I spent four years as a sub ( jobs are tight here in the northeast thesee days). However, we are going to be looking at a shortage and I worry that new teachers will not have the important experiences that subbing can give you.
meeha/ece/tx - SOTPT -- there was a quote in one of my study guides last semester (university work) about how things in education hadn't changed much over the past 30 years ... the person who penned the quote predicted demise of the present education system within the next 5 - 10 years. Guess when it was written --
milymo - I subbed full time for half a year in one district - at sub pay and no benefits - but with the promise of an interview - that's how I got my kinder position.
Mary/PA - 1872?
meeha/ece/tx - I don't remember the name of the person who said it ... but the quote was from the 1600's! *grin*
SOTPTeacher - meeha I figure 1920?
Mary/PA - WOW!
meeha/ece/tx - we really haven't made the progress we keep hoping we're making!
SOTPTeacher - That is unbelievable!
Mary/PA - Some things just don't change
Sarah - Times don't change much
meeha/ece/tx - milymo ... i subbed for a district for seven years, put in over 300 letters of interest for posted positions ... never got a single interview ... principals and teachers wanted me to sub!
Glenda - I guess the only thing that changes is the way they sell it.
SOTPTeacher - I must say before we have to go, this was my first time in a chat room and I really enjoyed communicating with all of you! I look forward to joining you again! Thanks!
milymo - Where do you live SOTPT?
meeha/ece/tx - Did the science/literature talk earlier get talked through? That could be an interesting talk!
SOTPTeacher - I am in Rhode Island.
Glenda - My first time in the chat room too. Thanks to everyone.
Mary/PA - Faviorite computer software is scheduled for next time (Tue. June 26)
meeha/ece/tx - SOTPT -- we meet in here every tuesday evening, 9 pm eastern time. the general chat room is open 24 - 7 ... come on in -- we'd all love to get to know you better!
milymo - I was afraid that would happen to me meeha, but when I started subbing I signed up to sub in two counties.
meeha/ece/tx - Glenda and SOTPT -- come back soon and often!
Sarah - sounds good meech...children love the explorations of science...great connections can be made also
Glenda - Thanks meeha
Mary/PA - meeha, no the science lit topic didn't get very far, maybe that can be for the week after next
meeha/ece/tx - that is an interesting topic, too!
Sarah - Yes SOTPT...this is only my 2nd chat here Great place
meeha/ece/tx - Kat -- did you get that? Science/Literature tie-ins for a meeting soon!
Glenda - Science/Lit. tie-ins sound really interesting.
Mary/PA - Well, thanks all for coming, I have to go now. See you all next week. Same time same place
meeha/ece/tx - 'nite, Mary -- good seeing you!
milymo - Guess I should get going. Goodnight all!
Glenda - I've got to go. Thanks for an interesting evening. Bye
meeha/ece/tx - anyone who wants to review the ideas shared here can check back at http://www.teachers.net/archives in a few days -- this meeting and lots of other 'teacher meetings' are archived there for ready reference!
meeha/ece/tx - SOTPT -- do you know about the chatboards, lesson plans, etc. here?
SOTPTeacher - I just learned about the site today at a workshop (our last day of school was yesterday) so I have not had a chance to investigate too far.
meeha/ece/tx - well, it was nice chatting with everyone this evening -- hope to see you all again very soon.
Sarah - you must check everything out! Lots of great stuff!
SOTPTeacher - I plan on it! Well it is late here and I have a classroom to clean out so I will get going. See you next week!
Sarah - time for me to pack it in. Goodnight
