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k - I have been using the 4-Block method this year faithfully and what a difference I have seen in the progress of my students. Anyone else out there have you since a difference?
mjn - hi, k, what grade do you teach?
k - I teach first grade. I have 19 regular division students and two little guys that are developmentally handicapped.
mjn - did you start 4blocks for the first time this year?
k - Yes! I have done my Guided Reading whole group for several years now along with writing, but this is my first year doing all four blocks.
mjn - I have never heard anyone say it wasn't successful. That's great. What is your hardest block and why?
k - What grade do you teach? Do you also use the 4Blocks Method? I was able to go visit a school on Monday that uses 4 Blocks. It was wonderful! I would have to say that my hardest block has been self selected reading, but now it is one of my favorites.
mjn - I have only done the working with words block faithfully this year and I can't believe the improvement I have seen in kids reading and writing just due to that block.
mjn - I teach first grade. I would love to visit a school that is doing the 4b's.
deb - mjn - where are you located? I have lots of visitors in MI
k - I have been working with the other first grade teachers in our district on beginning 4 Blocks next year.
mjn - I'm in NH.
deb - wellllllllll, if you want a road trip..... anyone is welcome
mjn - I would love a road trip-I wonder if my school would fund that!
deb - I have seen tremendous growth in my students understanding and ability to read using four blocks
k - deb, How many years have you been using 4 block?
mjn - Do you find as a whole that kids like one block better than another?
deb - I have always used four blocks (12 years) but I didn't have a name for it until four years ago. I have been presenting nationally for two years and teach it in second grade still
Z - I am in the process of getting certified as a reading specialist
deb - I find that different kids like different blocks the best
k - I have found that my students are very disappointed if we miss any of the blocks.
deb - so, are we going to hit on the controversy of guided reading or is everyone doing guided reading the four blocks way?
mjn - Do you name the blocks or does one run into the next some days?
cherbear - My kids like the writing block best.
kkh - Does anyone integrate the Houghton Mifflin Literature Anthology along with Guided Reading, Readers' Workshop, Writing and Word Work?
deb - mjn, I name the blocks because I say, we are starting comprehension now. During comprehension we think about our thinking, we think about our metacognition
cherbear - Most of our teachers are doing guided reading the 4 block way
cherbear - I've had some training on the other way.
mjn - Comprehension meaning Guided Reading?
sharon - Can anyone tell me what the biggest difference is between Gay Sue's Guided reading vs. 4 blocks?
deb - mjn, yes
cherbear - Well, F&P believe in small leveled groups
k - Right now I am the only teacher in our district using the 4Blocks approach to Guided Reading. Most of the other first grade teachers in our district are using Fountas and Pinnell's philosophy.
mjn - I am working with ability groups at that time but I really would like to change.
sharon - So, in 4 blocks does everyone read the same book?
cherbear - I sure like the 4-block way best for 2nd and 3rd.
mjn - I never thought I would but when I continue to see the results in the other three blocks, especially working with words, I think it may be best not to group.
cherbear - No, everyone doesn't have to read the same story or book
deb - P&F (Pinnell, Fountas) is based on reading recovery. It takes the wonderful one on one strategies and applies them to small group instruction. The strategies are taught with leveled books. The small group instruction is wonderful. The problem I have is what the children are doing during the times their group is "independently" learning.
KDD - kkh, which anthology from Houghton Mifflin? We have the 89 Literary Readers and we have leveled the selections. We tell teachers to use them as part of the guided reading library.
sharon - I'm a reading specialist and have only ever used guided reading the P& F way. So do you teach the same level of book to the whole class?
deb - in four blocks guided reading, the goal is comprehension instruction. Be using prereading, during reading, and after reading instruction the children are getting direct instruction in thinking. There isn't a time when they aren't getting taught by the teacher.
deb - sometimes teachers use the same book with the whole group, sometimes the books are different depending on reading level.
cherbear - 4-block guided reading can be in themes or authors, or book clubs
kkh - We're using HM's Invitations to Literacy - our supervisor wants us to use the anthology as the framework for our program while at the same time doing leveled books if the anthology selection isn't appropriate. It is frustrating the teachers because it seems there are so many different componets to integrate.
cherbear - I think 4-block reading is more focused on comprehension.
teach321 - Hi, just joingin in -am interested in 4 block
sharon - Does it emphasize sounding out like Marilynn Adams uses in Open Court?
deb - One example, most teachers feel that all K kids can learn science concepts even though they can't read the book yet. If we wait until June to teach out of the science text, the children don't learn all their science skills. We must teach our students how to handle the variety of texts.
cherbear - In 4-block you work on material below grade level and on grade level
Trish - We just adopted Scott Foresman for next year and I was so excited to see that each selection in the basal text has three leveled accompanying books that address the same skill
deb - During the Word block, the teachers teach reading strategies like in p&n during Guess The Covered Word
teach321 - Our school have just voted to to 4-block 3-5 and guided reading pinnel style for k-2. Do you think that will work?
deb - We also coach our students to use reading strategies during ssr conferencing.
dkroll - does anyone have a good form to keep track of the books the students read in small group F&P guided reading
teach321 - We are still looking at text for next year. Does anyone have any thoughts about Hartcort or Houghten Miffin
cherbear - I think that will work. I still like the 4-block guided reading best.
Trish - How do you set up/schedule your conferencing?
teach321 - Deb what grade do you teach
deb - second grade
deb - this year I have worked with a first grade class too
teach321 - I am excityed about 4-bnlock and have been trying some things this year.
deb - in four blocks ssr I meet with 1/3 to 1/2 of my class daily
deb - Four Blocks works
Trish - Deb, how many students do you have?
teach321 - The book Phonics for 3rd grade has been very helpful for guess the covered word and making words and strat.
mjn - What do you look for in your conferences during SSR?
kkh - The levels of the stories in the HM anthology don't seem to be sequentially more difficult. Does anyone have levels for the individual stories? Do you use them out of order?
teach321 - I am glad to hear you say 4 blocks works for 1 and 2. WE have had this bbBIG debate about the guided reading.
cherbear - We listen to kids read, what level are they reading at , you can do a quick running record, comprehension questions
Trish - I was thinking of going to the Four Blocks Annual Conference in Clemmons in August.........anyone else going or have you been before?
saw - deb - could you give me an idea of what ssr and guided reading looked liked in the 1st grad?
teach321 - Where is Clemmons?
teach321 - Do you do running records in the 4 blocks guided reading
Trish - When we met with the Houghton Miflin reps. I was told that the first grade anthologies are sequentially harder in the first two books then the last books are just authentic literature with no sequetial leveling.......that is why we didn't adopt that one
dkroll - my district is using the F& P model in the 4 bolck framework. We are just getting started and need a good form to keep track of all the GR books the children read when forming new groups is has been difficult to keep track of the books they read.
cherbear - No running records in 4-block guided time we are more focused on involvement and comprehension.
Trish - Clemmons is in North Carolina.......near Greensboro and Wake Forest where Dottie and Pat are
mjn - Do you look for how well they are using their strategies learned in word work or comp. from GR? I guess I am wondering how much of it is a teaching time and how much of the conference is to get info on what needs to be taught in the other blocks.
deb - I taught F&P for one year. I loved the reading strategies but hated that I was always trying to find work to keep the other kids busy.
deb - I have 21 students
deb - teach321, four blocks was written for FIRST grade
Trish - Deb will you be in Clemmons in August?
teach321 - I wondered what the other kids are doing in the pinnell style while the teacher is working with a small group of 4-6 kids
cherbear - No, we do word work during working with words block and writing block.
Trish - Deb some friends of mine just got back from IRA and one of them heard your presentation!
teach321 - glad to hear that
cherbear - Kids are supposed to do learning centers during reading groups
deb - no, I am doing a Michigan conference during those dates.
teach321 - who did your 4-block training?
deb - trish, really cool! Did they like it?
dkroll - In the f&P model the other students need to be invovled in meaning literacy activities some teachers find it easier to do the small group GR during self selected reading.
saw - deb- did you ever go to North Carolina to see this in action?
Margie - Cherbear, any centers or literacy centers?
teach321 - We are having Connie Prevate do our training. KNow anything about her?
deb - I have seen Dottie, Pat and Cheryl throughout the years, I have been on the mailrings, and also attended leadership conferences both years.
deb - saw, yes
Trish - Yes! We are in Franklin, TN and Diane and I have been reading your posts !! We are always talking as if we know you! Did you read Deb's post about.....
kkh - In one second grade class, the classroom tchr. teaches F&P guided rdg. group, 1 group is reading independent level books at their desks, I (rdg. spec.) work with one group for 1/2 hr. 4th group is often working in the library on a book-related project with the librarian or an aide.
deb - dkroll, my problem with those "meaningful lit activities" is that there can't be instruction by the teacher at that time and it is independent practice time. I have found that my students do better with more direct instruction by the teacher
teach321 - I have been reading Cheryl's coloumn on teachers.net. I email her and she responds to me personally. I am so impressed with her.
cherbear - In F& P they are literacy centers.
Margie - I'm in Ky and we are using the 4 block model as the framework for our Reading Excellence Grant
Trish - I have an assistant right now and that is the only way I can keep the others on task when I am with a group without being interrupted........next year I am going to switch to GR the four blocks way!
Margie - We have had many discussions/problems with understanding the developmentally appropriate GR strategies
Trish - Margie....... I am just south of you in Tenn. and I can't get anyone to listen to me about Four Blocks!
Margie - Trish, have you seen the GR the four blocks way? I think they are great!
Trish - Is the Guided Reading for First Grade video good? I was thinking of getting it.
dkroll - we have had so much success using small group GR with leveled books at the students instructional level
Trish - Is the Guided Reading for First Grade video good? I was thinking of getting it.
Margie - As part of our grant implementation, we are recommending GR by F&P until students have reached Level 16, and then the 4 Block Method
saw - deb- I love making words and so do the kids! While my present system is a combination of F&P and Four Blocks for SSR/small group reading, I would like to become more confident with SSR and Guided Reading 4 Blocks way. My problem was 20 kids and probably a lack of confidence. Any suggestions?? Would the video be helpful?
Margie - I think it would be, saw
deb - I think that all the strategies from F&P are great. It is the non-teaching time for other students that concerns me
Trish - Has anyone seen where you can get the new Making Words for grade levels books?
dkroll - Margie I like that idea
teach321 - Trish you can order them from Carson Dellosa or most teacher stores have them
Margie - a very valid concern, deb. We have trained our assistants to provide instructional support and our teachers to use literacy centers. We are making progress but it doesn't all happen overnight
deb - trish, you can order them from http://www.applesandacorns.com
Trish - Margie where are you in Kentucky?
Margie - Louisville -- Jefferson County Public Schools
Margie - We have seven schools using the balanced literacy approach found in the four blocks as part of the federal grant
saw - margie - why 4 blocks after level 16 and not before?
cherbear - Read the 4 block book and look for local conferences
Margie - Because our Reading Specialist felt that emergent readers benefit more from the F&P method
Margie - One of the problems we have faced is that the schools participating in this grant have emergent readers who are in upper primary and intermediate grades
saw - I agree with your views on emergent readers. I love my small groups and feel the children have made great progress this year.
linda - I'm always curious as to howintermediate (3-4 grades) use guided reading in their rooms.Comments?
sas - I used to teach 3rd, this was my first year in grade 1. Many 3rd graders still need lots of guided reading especially at my school.
JJ - linda our school is going to use 4Block school wide next year
JJ - wondering what advice intermediate teachers could share
cherbear - I use old and new basals, lit sets, social studies and science text
kkh - Linda, in third and fourth grade, we use magazine articles (some of the Ranger Rick articles are leveled) as well as leveled chapter books, doing one chapter per guided reading lesson.
dkroll - what leveling system does everyone use. We use the one in the Matching Books to Readers book. We had to modify it somewhat to because our Kindergarten doesn' t use GR.
Cyndi - I teach 3rd too and we also are going school wide for 4block next year. This year only our 3rd grade used it.
Margie - Our supt. has decided that forty additional schools in our district will use four blocks next year. It's really working!!
cherbear - I personally use Matching books to Readers,too. But we aren't decided school wide yet
dkroll - what leveling system does everyone use. We use the one in the Matching Books to Readers book. We had to modify it somewhat to because our Kindergarten doesn' t use GR.
kkh - There seem to be so many different "leveling" systems out there right now. I feel like I have to carry a conversion chart around with me at all times!
JJ - Margie, what advice can you offer newbies
linda - I find I use a shortened routine-I usually can not devote 1/2 hour to word work!! So about 15-20 min for tht. We have a good block of time for indep. rdg
cherbear - We do need conversion charts some are so different
JJ - What researched strategies do you find most useful for independent reading and how do you keep running records
linda - Yes I use magazines and other sources when I do GR.
Margie - I work with new teachers and the first thing I tell them is to read the book. Then I model lessons which we discuss. Most new teachers learn most from watching someone else do it.
Margie - The videos are really helpful too
sas - Our school has applied for a huge literacy grant...
JJ - how about management????
Margie - Using what, sas?
linda - For Indep rdg-I use ideas from Stragies That Work (Harvey).
cherbear - I only do running records on a few strugglers
teach321 - I bought the teachers guide to 4 blocks, the Guided REading the 4-blocks way and Phonics for thrid grade. All are very helpful
Margie - There are some really good tips about management in the teacher's guide
JJ - Dr. Silver is wonderful
sas - I just got Systematic, Sequential Phonics they use and it is great.
Margie - I agree, sas
JJ - Strategies that work, isn't that marzano
teach321 - SAS what grade do you teach? I saw that book in the teacher store and thought about buying it. I also have word wall activities
deb - margie, I might have, where are you again
kkh - Who is Dr. Silver?
sas - It is so neat to just read all the teachers who use this approach to reading...I am the only person on my team who does this...everyone else has their kids on the same page in the basal and workbook (UGH)
Margie - The problem we face is mostly with guided reading. Our teachers seem to want a "one way" description.
linda - No author is Stephanie harvey & A. Goudvis-really great!
Margie - I'm in Louisville, KY
sas - I teach first, I see where that book could be my "guide" next year
JJ - Harvey Silver...a researcher
deb - margie, I haven't been to Louisville yet to present
Margie - They have trouble with flexibility
sas - I have done word wall all year
JJ - Oh, okay, I will check her work out thanks
sas - amen margie!
teach321 - sas Do you think 3rd grade could use it or more for 1 AND 2
kkh - Any creative ideas for displaying word walls when classroom space is limited?
JJ - Dr. silver has many books out about teaching strategies
Margie - Oh, Deb, it must have been someone else. I know there were two presenters and they both had the same first name....Sylvia, mayble
sas - Yes, I think there is one maybe for 3rd grade...
Margie - individual word walls are good for limited space
teach321 - kkh One of our teachers put the word wall above the board
Margie - Using charts and then transferring them to a page in a binder helps sometimes too
teach321 - I put my word wall on my closet doors
cherbear - My word wall is directly above my abc chart
kkh - Above the board seems to be the only space some of our classrooms have available, but it seems the little ones should be able to get up closer. I like the closet door idea.
cherbear - WhY closer they just need to be able to see it
Margie - You can also use the space under the boards for those little ones
sharon - sas- I used S&P last year in my 1/2 and really liked it but it was alot of work to keep up with the centres and training my "boys" to work independently ( 22 boys and 5 girls)and am now working as a reading specialist in a school where the grade 1 teacher got grant money to buy all the open court materials which I don't really agree with.
Margie - If one of your centers is "Read the Room" they also need to be able to point to it or touch it.
teach321 - What is open court
cherbear - I don't do centers or F&P in 3rd
sas - sharon, sorry but what is S & P
Tammie - Deb, I just sent you a email requesting that you present to our school during the week of August 13th. Let me know if this works. Thanks!
teach321 - Do any of these school districts aloow others to come if I paid my own money?
sas - OpenCourt is a publishing company wanting to make $$$
sharon - sorry sas. I must be getting tired it's 9:50 here. I meant Gay Sue Pinnell
deb - Tammie, that works, I don't have any other dates that week
cherbear - Use high frequency words for your grade
Margie - Before I go, can anyone recommend a site where new teachers can get "good" answers to questions about Guided Reading? I'd like them to hear the real philosophy behind GR by F&P and Four Blocks. It seems that they hear many conflicting opinions and use the disagreements as justification for not doing anything different from what they've always done
teach321 - Open court sounds like Rigby. Our title one person last year bought 100's of levled books that 1 and 2 use
kids4 - I have three word walls--one is made up of words that we get from our reading and writing. The others are science and math words.
kkh - Anyone use the Sitton spelling program along with 4 blocks? Opinions?
sharon - I agree sas about Open Court. It's too bad Marilynn Adams has updated and put her name on it- it tends to give it more clout.
books - word Walls are for sight words that the students should learn to read and spell.
kids4 - Bebe, creating word lists during science lessons and math lessons is very eye-catching for the kids and they use it lots in their writing!
sharon - sas- I live in Ottawa, Canada where no one really tells us teachers what method to officially use
kids4 - Any one have an idea for maintaining the 4 blocks when the kids get bored with it?
teach321 - I don't think the kids will get bored with it?
cherbear - why bored
Cyndi - My kids have never been bored this year with 4 blocks, there are so many different things to do
JJ - any intermediate teachers who team and switch content areas doing 4 blocks?
deb - kids4- what specifically are they bored with? I have never had a child bored with it
teach321 - Deb, do you think that grammer should be taught in the wiritng or should we have grammer/LA series
sharon - sometimes it is frustrating if individuals don't keep up with good instructional practices they just close their doors and have kids do lots of "board work"
teach321 - My kids love making words and guess the covered word
deb - bebe, four blocks is the idea that you teach reading four ways every day -- comprehension, phonics, self selected reading and writing
kids4 - My second graders seem to be bored with the routine. It could be due to the fact that we are a year-round school and we are well into our fourth grading period. The kids come to school all year round and could be bored with coming to school.
deb - there is a lot of research to support teaching grammar in their writing
deb - kids4, maybe you could do Word Bingo with the word wall and a thematic study to change things within the blocks
sharon - thanks for the great thoughts!
