Teachers.Net Meeting - Home Schooling

Teachers.Net
May 7, 1999
Homeschooling
with
cath22

Kathleen - Well, cath, let's start. Thanks for agreeing to do this, especially since it is 2 am there in UK!
cath22 - Welcome to Teachers.Net. Tonight we will be discussing the ever-growing phenomenon of Homeschooling.
Mary K&1 - What interested you in investigating Homeschooling, Cath22?
cath22 - hi mary - i did some research for my teacher training!!
cath22 - are you interested in the subject?
Mary K&1 - I wonder why people opt to home school.
cath22 - well i think there are loads of reasons.... hoping to explore them this evening!
Mary K&1 - I didn't know that it is an option in other countries, I thought it just done in the US
cath22 - mary - well it is taking off here too
Roadrunner - I think people are getting more and more worried about public schools...
Kathleen - Roadrunner, good point. Cath, do you want to start with a statement, then we will jump in, or should we just start chatting?
cath22 - well we can start by thinking how one would define the term "education"
cath22 - and to most people would define education as a "process of learning by which knowledge and skills are attained"
Kathleen - ok, cath. education=learning
Grace/IL - From my contacts with homeschool parents, I find that here in the U.S., parents want to be able to provide religious education through homeschooling and some are disillusioned by their childrens' reading progress in public schools.
cath22 - some favour traditional methods of learning... others favour alternative approaches
max - I like to think of education as a process of preparing children, by giving them the proper tools, the ability to explore and apply knowledge to their daily lives in an enriching manner
cath22 - yes grace- religion is a big influence on people's decisions to homeschool
cath22 - ok max!! that sounds good to me!
Roadrunner - I find the mere absence of belief in God to be the atheist's "religion", and that is what we are teaching the children by default
Roadrunner - Nice definition max!
Grace/IL - Do you have the 'religion' problem in England also?
BJ/OH - good definition Max
cath22 - well... religion aside... the issue here really is how people think that children should receive their education
Kathleen - so, for many it is what homeschooling can give, for others it is what homeschooling allows them to avoid
cath22 - yes we do grace.... and it is a major influence in people's decisions to homeschool their children
Mary K&1 - Education to me is learning everything you possibly can about everything possible. Learning how to think and solve problems. Learning about who you are and how you fit in the society.
max - I don't teach religion in school, but I sure do teach by example; I model the behavior I expect to see which involves Christian principles
Roadrunner - me too, max
max - yes, Mary K&1
cath22 - well different families have a different set of morals that they wish to instil in their family unit...
Kathleen - JB, jump into a discussion about homeschooling! :-)
cath22 - in the last 10 yrs the number of homeschooling families in america has increased from 15,000 to 450,000
cath22 - and in britain the number of homeschooling families is now at 10,000
max - living in a University town, I have seen many very bright parents pull their children and homeschool them, and for a variety of reasons; actually they are providing them with a great education from what I have seen, I could never be that dedicatied!!!!
Mary K&1 - Why do they think they can't do that (instil morals) if their children attend school?
max - wow, cath, what an increase!
BJ/OH - this may be early in the discussion to ask, but Cath did you find any data on the transition from homeschooling to public school?
Mary K&1 - My parents did. Are things that different now?
cath22 - BJ - it was really difficult to find concrete facts on anything really!!
Grace/IL - Cath, if my math is correct, that's a 300% increase.
Roadrunner - true mary, values and morals are learned mostly at home. But they do spend a *lot" of time in the classroom!
cath22 - mary - i think that they feel that they lose control of what their children are being influenced by outside of the home
BJ/OH - I ask because I have a friend returning to Ohio who has been homeschooling her daughter in NC and is quite worried
cath22 - your maths is obviously better than mine grace!!!
JB - BJ/OH, I'm interested in that, too.
Roadrunner - what is she worried about?
max - I wish schools were not so very large, were more like "our" schools when they were little comminities
cath22 - research shows that 70% of homeschooling families are from a religious background
BJ/OH - she is worried if her daughter will respond as well to whole class instruction as she has to the individual attention she has given her for 2 years now
Kathleen - Homeschooling links: http://www.eduplace.com/parents/hslinks.html
Mary K&1 - What's the other 30%?
cath22 - well... that has to be a benefit of homeschooling bj in that children are able to receive individual attention
Roadrunner - It might depend on if her daughter is getting other chances to socialize with those her own age...
max - BJ. O am certain it will be a big adjustment, to go from 1:1 to classroom instruction!!
Kathleen - High School homeschooling page: http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~brada/homeschooling.html
Grace/IL - Max, I think you're correct. With our huge school systems it's no longer the community looking out for individual children. Perhaps many parents are feeling that their children are "lost in the crowd'.
cath22 - yes max
BJ/OH - socially I find the child to be well adjusted but she needed concentrated help in reading which the public school was not able to provide
Kathleen - max, I agree that small schools are more family-like. That might explain why some homeschool, schools too large
cath22 - and they are worried of the influence of that crowd on their child grace
Roadrunner - I can't blame them cath, I felt pretty lost in middle school and finally went to a private school for high school. That was much better.
JB - Where you live, Cath22, do parents have to account for what they're teaching?
Roadrunner - I met a woman years later that remembered that I wouldn't join their "gang" in middle school :^)
cath22 - JB - interesting question... here it is law that assessment of a child;s learning can be made entirely through conversation with the parent doing the teaching
max - BJ, another difficulity I would be concerned about is the interest of subject matter provided at "home" as compared to the strictly enforced school curriculum, reguardless of student interest
BJ/OH - max I believe they have done a lot of the schooling on the Internet
Mary K&1 - The home schooled children in our area have to come in to school during standardized testing to take the test. Our district is still held accountable for these kids.
cath22 - well max one cause f debate is that homeschoolers are not subject specialists .....
Kathleen - Homeschooling Federation of New Zealand: http://www.homeschooling.org.nz/
cath22 - BJ - modern technology is making it a lot easier for materials to be obtained for homeschooling purposes
JB - Where I live, Cath22, children are still registered under a school(by law) but they don't have to "report" to anyone.
max - so true cath!!! and then it is scarey to see how many out of field teachers we have as well!!!!!!
cath22 - mary - here in the UK homeschooled children are not allowed to be tested
Roadrunner - Many elementary teachers are not subject specialists either - at least here...
Grace/IL - Lots of people (especially some teachers) cite the lack of socialization as a minus for homeschooling. On the other hand, in our area there are homeschooling groups who meet together and share parent expertise in various subject areas. Some go to public schools for band and choir, also are active in 4-H which has such a diverse curriculum.
cath22 - are you in the states there JB?
Kathleen - "Homeschool Teens and College": http://www.concentric.net/~Ctcohen/index.shtml
cath22 - socialisation is another huge issue here grace.. but here in the uk they have homeschooling clubs
JB - A number of families have given up after a year or two and when they return to the public school they've lost several years.
Mary K&1 - If the home schooled children fall too far behind, we have to remediate them.
max - I think the net and all the new "teaching materials for home schooling" has been a big help for homeschoolers (and let me repeat, I don't think I could handle doing all the ruggers of home schooling!!! That would be one difficult job!!!!)
Kathleen - Wisconsin Parents Assoc for homeschooling: http://www.homeschooling-wpa.org/
cath22 - max - i know a mother who intends to homeschool her 5 children up to university level.. and then let her children go to university afterwards
Kathleen - I would think the Internet does have a lot to do with an increase in homeschooling, so much available online to support the effort
Mary K&1 - Teachers get paid over time for bringing their skills up to par.
JB - This is our problem too, Mary K&1...
BJ/OH - max I did not have the patience to do homework let alone an entire curriculum!
max - I wish I had her strength cath22!!!!!!
cath22 - yes max... but there are obvious problems with this as well
Kathleen - California Homeschool Network: http://www.comenius.org/chn/
Cherie - I believe some parents don't have the time, patience, or discipline to have their children sit down every day to do the assigned tasks at an assigned time.
max - LOL, max would be doing all sorts, well, we will just get to this tomorrow!!!
max - Cherie, so correct, how can they handle them all the time?
cath22 - well cherie..one of my points is that both the parent and the child have to maintain a very disciplined approach to education
Grace/IL - LOL. Grace is sufficiently ADD not to stay on task.
Kathleen - Homeschooling: A Patchwork of Days (includes accounts of 30 families experiences with homeschooling): http://www.windycreek.com/
Cherie - This is true.....so not all parents succeed.
cath22 - one of the problems with the family i know is from the social aspect....
BJ/OH - some one mentioned that homeschooled children must take standardized tests in their district---how do those children compare?
Cherie - True, Cath22.....so not all parents can be successful at this
cath22 - we used to run a youth club and when the older kids came they had a real problem knowing how to deal with their peers
Grace/IL - cath, how do you view the social aspect?
Kathleen - Homeschooling Kids With Disabilities: http://members.tripod.com/~Maaja/
cath22 - i think that must depend from district to district in the US BJ.. here they are not required to take tests
cath22 - grace- i can only speak from my own experiences... and from my own thinking....
Mary K&1 - BJ, some do Ok and others don't - we have to put the families on notice to teach the weak areas - if that doesn't change, then we have to tutor the children
JB - The computer and internet have made a significant impact on the homeschooling scene, right?
cath22 - jb - i think the internet has become a valuable resource for homeschooling
Jennifer ofNY - Students who are home school receive remedial support in our district
ika - hi all ... wondering what this homeschooling is abt
BJ/OH - So Mary--your district still maintains a say in the child's education.
Grace/IL - Cath, I'm trying to be fair here. Some children who attend regular schools also have trouble fitting into youth club activities.
ika - i am sad to say that homeschooling is virtually unheard of in malaysia
cath22 - jeenifer homeschoolers have much support from districts here.. but many of them choose to set up their own support circles
Jennifer ofNY - Some Home Schooled chilren have IEP s
Grace/IL - I'm not taking one side or the other. The homeschool movement intrigues me.
cath22 - grace - yes i agree... but it was really noticeable with these kids... for various reasons
ika - we have the school system which i find very rigid. students are required to sit for public exams from as early as 9 years old
Jennifer ofNY - JUst another alternative...
cath22 - same here grace.. it is not the intention to take sides... but to reflect both sides of the coin
JB - I agree with you, Grace...I've seen some wonderful examples, but also some cases where the parent has done nothing. That's criminal!
cath22 - yes ika and the problem with traditional schooling for homeschoolers is that rigidity with the curriculum and examinations
Jennifer ofNY - Sure, I gave 2 state exams to fifth graders this week...which ran 3 hours each
Roadrunner - I agree JB, and the State should treat it as criminal!
Grace/IL - ika, we have mandatory testing in some areas at the third grade level. Those would also be 9 years old.
ika - that's just it, cath .. but i do realise that not many parents can handle home schooling ... the other alternative is private schools which cost a bomb
Cherie - I believe the success or failure of homeschooling, as with many other things, depends on the parents or person doing it.
Jennifer ofNY - Sorry to say, we have children being homeschooled by parents who did not complete high school
cath22 - another problem that homeschoolers have is that they feel that not enough freedom is given to the child to learn.... they feel that children should learn when they are ready to learn rather than have subjects forced upon them
cath22 - yes ika - reserved for the well off!!!
Kathleen - New Hampshire Homeschooling Coalition: http://www.nhhomeschooling.org/
JB - That's the problem, Cherie. Where I live the school board has a hands-off approach and they just let the parents do as they wish.
Roadrunner - I thought whomever was teaching homeschooled children, had to be certified as teachers...
ika - at 9 yrs old, they sit for a test to see if they qualify to skip a grade ... then at 12, they sit for an exam b4 entering secondary school ... at 15, another to decide which stream (science or arts) they take the foloowing year ...
Jennifer ofNY - Cath...do you only do housework when you feel like it?
cath22 - jb - that is mnore or less how it is done here
Grace/IL - Many homeschool parents will argue that they are better prepared to teach than many teachers. They have passed teaching exams that teachers have failde.
JB - Not where I live, Roadrunner
Jennifer ofNY - Kathleen...my nephew belongs to that
Mary K&1 - Roadrunner, they don't need to be certified in PA
Kathleen - Favorite Resources for Catholic Homeschoolers: http://www.execpc.com/~vanhecke/hsindx.htm
cath22 - jennifer... depends on my mood and whether my husband does it first!!!
ika - then at 17, they sit for another exam b4 they are assesed whether they qualify for form 6 or for pre-U or diploma courses in Univ
Kathleen - Jennifer, small world!
Roadrunner - mmm....guess it's only here
JB - Where do you live, Roadrunner?
cath22 - i have to agree that success of homeschooling depends on the parent involved though
Roadrunner - New Mexico - Albuquerque area
Jennifer ofNY - Kathleen...parent are MIT grads
Kathleen - Muslim HOmeschool and Arabic Resources: http://arabesq.com/
Kathleen - Jenn, so they are well qualified in terms of ed background?
cath22 - ok ika - i admit it...!!! hello xtian
Jennifer ofNY - they are...
Jennifer ofNY - Kathleen...but the whole is more than sum of the parts
cath22 - although the success of homeschooling depends on the parent.. many families are relying on "self-teach2 software packages for use on computers. what do people think of that?
Kathleen - Homeschooling: Back to the Future?: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-294.html
BJ/OH - Thanks for the sites Kathleen---I bookmarked them and will share them with my friend
Grace/IL - xtian, are you a homeschool parent?
Kathleen - ika, there are many out there, these look the most interesting and comprehensive. Many homeschooling famillies have their own sites
xtian - no but I know several parents that do
Roadrunner - I have a technology emphasis - and I think that is awful!
xtian - I am a public school teacher
ika - i think that's great, kath... that way they can share their success and failure storues
cath22 - well roadrunner i think then that parents could rely too much on interaction with these packages... so that students effectively self-teach
Roadrunner - Sharing web sites is fine...but, teaching them with Software packages isn't!
Kathleen - Homeschooling in Oregon: http://www.nettlepatch.net/homeschool/
JB - A problem with the packages...reduces human interaction even more. That's not good.
ika - xtian, i am here also to just learn and listen
Roadrunner - You can't ask Software many questions either...
Grace/IL - But aren't we also using software packages and tutorials in our schools?
Roadrunner - ...talk about "rigid!" :^)
cath22 - i agree that reducing social intreraction and replacing it with technology is not a good thing or a child's education
Roadrunner - Even Spellcheck isn't very smart!
Mary K&1 - Kathleen, I wasn't watching all the links that you posted, I know I can check them later. But I was wondering if you ran across any that offer statistics about the success rate of home schooled children, or some o the pitfalls.
Roadrunner - ...and that is a simple tool.
ika - i think here, the only homeschooling done is for kindy ... no homescholing once the kid goes into the schooling age
cath22 - roadrunner - tell me about it!!! kids are relying far too much on technology to complete their education for them instead of using it as a tool
Kathleen - No, Mary, I haven't seen any with stats or analysis, that's actually what I set out to find
Tamy - What about the interaction the children don't get if they are in the elementry age?
Roadrunner - Society hasn't done a good job of framing and planning the use of technology
Kathleen - Homeschooling: From Preschool to High School, A Parent's Guide: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0761517278/teachersnet
cath22 - yes roadrunner.. but the emphasis should be on the fact that it is useful as a resource but not a replacement for human interaction
ika - hmmm this one sounds interesting, kath
Tamy - We have alot of homeschooling in our area of all ages through highschool.
Deb/WI - I not only worry about the interaction, but the quality of homeschooling they are getting at home. I know each state is different, but Wisconsin has a poor homeschooling set up.
Roadrunner - ...like the kids in Littleton. If a teacher or parent had seen their website - they may have received the help they needed before it was too late
cath22 - i had a real problem finding sites with stats
Roadrunner - I totally agree cath22 ~!
BJ/OH - If you find any stats Kathleen be sure to share them on the board or in another meeting---have to go now
Kathleen - Family Matters-Why Homeschooling Makes Sense http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0156300001/teachersnet
cath22 - another argument for homeschoolers ois that they can tailor education to their child;s needs and their style of learning
Tamy - What about actually trying to teach your own child? I taught both of my sons in Second grade. It was not easy.
Roadrunner - *we* need to plan technology - otherwise it just keeps going "just because it can."
ika - cath, WHO usually does the homeschooling? parents? or paid private teachers?
ika - brb
Roadrunner - I don't disagree with homeschooling,
cath22 - it depends on your approach tamy... i think it is down to individsual "educators"
cath22 - ika it is normally parents
Roadrunner - ...but I think standards still have to be maintained...
Cherie - cath22, we have been receiving inservice training on learning styles to better reach ALL of our students
ika - back
Roadrunner - It sounds like it's mostly parents ika
Tamy - In our area it is the parents. Usually with 4 to 6 other children the home.
cath22 - roadrunner - technology will never stop progressing.. but i feel that more could be done to promote it as a resource for educating a child
Deb/WI - It depends on the state and the requirements. Some of them want you to hire a paid tutor, or to work with a certified teacher for a period of time.
ika - but how many parents can actually do that? i mean, there are parents busy with their own work
Grace/IL - I did so much teaching of my own children while they were in school (things teachers neglected) that I often wondered if I shouldn't have homeschooled but I thing the interaction between home and school was good. We had a chance to compare 'values'. Sometimes it was a bit tough with all the peer pressure.
cath22 - well that is one of the iussues ika
Roadrunner - it should be a resource, but it should also be controlled. It only isn't being controlled because everyone thinks it will never stop progressing.
cath22 - cherie - i think being aware of learning styles is an excellent idea.. but how can teachers with classes of 30 children possible accommodate all 4 learning styles in one lesson???
cath22 - i totally agree roadrunner
Cherie - True, cath22. I'm fortunate enought to usually have small classes. (20 students or so)
ika - the problem here is there are not enough teachers, in school or teachers to do homeschooling
Kathleen - Here's one with some analysis: http://www.infinet.com/~jayj/homeskul.htm
cath22 - cherie - that is not so bad but it is so difficult to be able to teach so as to touch on individual learning styles
Mary K&1 - cath, are you familiar with the 4 Matt approach? It incorporates all the learning styles into lessons
cath22 - no i am not mary...
Mary K&1 - cath, 4 Matt is just one approach to address the various learning slyles.
Mary K&1 - Every morning I enjoy watching my kindergarten children greeting each other with excitement, sharing news and playing with each other. They do enjoy the company of so many play mates. And they learn so much about interpersonal relationships. This occurs for them every day. I wonder how home schooled children can ever have this much interaction. I think of myself and how glad I am that I had the experience of being with so many different people every day. I'm so glad that my parents didn't home school me. Going to school was so much fun for me. I can't imagine who I'd be now if I hadn't had that exposure. These are the kinds of things I wonder and worry about.
cath22 - i think many people would share your view there mary....
Tamy - Why do people choose to home school?
ika - yes, mary, i think one advantage of schooling is the interaction ... at home, well, there is less ... or none, for some
cath22 - many homeschoolers feel that schools place too much emphasis on following the rules rather than education... what do people feel about this?
ika - but in school, the big classrooms are a big drawback
ika - and there are too many exams, too many rules on co-curricular activities, etc
Tamy - Don't all peoples need rules and need to learn to follow them.
Cherie - I can think of several instances in which I may have chosen to homeschool....
cath22 - yes and i see kids being sent home from school.. therefore missing a days education.. because they have forgotten to bring something with them
Tamy - Why not choose private schools with less children per class?
Laney - I teach 5th grade...we spend the majority of our day traveling to a special area class, going to the restroom, lunch, recess..when you actuallly count up the minutes teaching......its not too much.......not counting disruptions....
Kathleen - Here's an article with some facts, the main topic is Homeschooling Gifted Kids: http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content4/homeschool.gifted.html
cath22 - yes tamy.. but in england for instance where kids wear school uniforms.. i have seen kids suspended for not wearing the correct uniform
ika - mary, YES kids need rules ... but some schools have terribly rigid rules ... like here in MY school and generally in Malaysia
ika - Tamy, private schools cost a bomb
Cherie - Tamy, most private schools in my area are parochial schools, and they have large classes
cath22 - laney - i am glad you made that point
Mary K&1 - Society has rules, one must learn how to either obey the rules or learn the proper procedure for changing the rules they think need to be changed or pay the price for not obeying the rules
cath22 - i agree that kids need discipline.. but sometimes i agree that the emphasis could be shifted a little
cath22 - i agree mary...
ika - i agree, mary ... just that some rules are plain ridiculous .... and perhaps some parents don't like them
cath22 - i feel that discipline should be run alongside education....
Ta,my - Any of you guys ever listen to Dr. Laura on the radjo. She would sure get into this discussion.
cath22 - no tamy!!!
ika - how does this sound, each student is required to join (minimum) 1 uniformed unit, 1 society, 1 sports/games ... and all these are evaluated
ika - yes, cath ... that's a national ruling in every school ...
Mary K&1 - This was a fast hour!! I enjoyed this discussion, Thanks cath22 and Kathleen for making this possible
ika - i feel it is just so ridiculous, students have no time .. and very little choice
Kathleen - Common Objections to Homeschooling: http://www.naturalchild.com/common_objections/index.html
cath22 - i think that as far as homeschooling is concerned a major issue for me is how the child;s learning is measured/assessed
Kathleen - Is it time to stop already?? ;-) Cath, thank you very much!
ika - some students are prefects, that takes up a lot of time ... then they still have to take part in all those activities ... some can handle it and some simply can't
cath22 - hey mary - iit has been great
cath22 - because they are so overloaded, ika?
Cherie - Thanks cath22. Appreciate your staying with us so late * and without even a yawn!!*
cath22 - it has been good, kathleen... seemed so short!!
Laney - i think it all depends on who teaches the chiild...if you have someone qualified...the success of the child will be high...unfortunate for the kids whose "teacher" is without the educational knowledge.
ika - yes cath ... this kids have a life too ... like music lessons, dance lessons, private tutoring (if any), going out with friends ...
cath22 - yes laney i totally agree that parents with little knowledge of what they are teaching are not much help!!!
ika - i think if the parents can't handle homeschooling ... go ahead and send the kids to school
Laney - it happened to a kid across the hall from me.....came into 5th grade level way behind his classmates...a sad situation.
ika - but cath, i have two girls in my school, can't handle coming to school ... phobia ... scared of teachers and scared of classmates
cath22 - that is also a problem ika... some people really dread school
ika - they are having some home tutors right now to help them catch up .. but they have been absent for 3 months
cath22 - that will take some doing ika!
ika - right now their names are still in the register but we are trying to get them to stick to homeschooling ... BUT the ed dept might have something to say abt that
ika - it's sad, cath .. the school couselor has not been able to do anything ... and we suspect one of the girls is slightly unstable mentally and emotionally
cath22 - can she not be referred for professional help there ika?
ika - my father-in-law (behind me)questions whether homeschooling is a replacement/alternative ... (he's a former teacher)
ika - cath, that would be for the parents to refer them to prof help ...
cath22 - i think it is a feasible alternative if the parents are sufficiently educated to be able to carry the education of a child through their school years.....
ika - i think he's a bit of the old school type ... disagrees abt homeschooling ... LOL
ika - cath, my father-in-law spent one year training in Kirby MANY years ago ...
cath22 - well.. i think there are advantages/disadvantages to homeschooling
ika - yes i agree with u cath ... NOW he wants to know if i am for it ... LOL
ika - then dad-in-law went to a plce attached to UNIV of HULL
cath22 - i am not convinced personally of the homeschooling issue here ika.. i think it has a way to go before it is seen as a viable alternative to traditional education
ika - i guess so, cath ... i think when you have cases like those two girls in my school, then perhaps, homeschooling is an alternative .. temporarily
cath22 - yes i think so ika... maggie told me to tell you to get icq!!!
cath22 - will check out room one but i think i am getting a bit sleepy here now!! appreciate your input ika - thanks
jill - Good night.