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Laura - Hi Ellin and welcome to our chat on Mosaic of Thought. Glad you made it.ellin - Great Laura, this is new for me, where do we begin?
Laura - Ellin - Are you ready for the first question, or would you like to make an introductory statement?
ellin - Hi everyone, I so appreciate your interest in Mosaic and in the brilliant work of our teachers in this area and around the country. I have caught a couple of your questions and comments through the list serve ---- they were great, but perhaps, Laura, you should just share the questions you have.
Laura - The format of Mosaic is unlike any other professional development book we have read to date. Tell us about the writing process of this book, and how you chose the format.
ellin - A bit out of synch I guess! The book was pure pleasure to write after suffering with it in my head for 10 years! I was walking the dog one afternoon and realized (aha!!) that the format should include ample opportunity for teachers to rediscover their own comprehension processes as they read with an eye to what they might do in the classroom. Susan is an attorney and so a fine writer and editor herself and after I wrote, she barraged me with questions and helped me tighten and tighten and lift out the "education-ese" We wrote in her wonderful writing studio in the foothills west of Denver and she basically kept me planted in the chair writing and occasionally gave me permission to get up for a moment --- they called her "iron butt" in law school --- it worked!
Laura - Many of us are early grade teachers. We have discussed the implications of Mosaic in our classrooms. How do you see Mosaic being implemented in early childhood classrooms?
ellin - Well of course, this is a six year long response and the poor individual who thinks she has a frozen screen will really be kept waiting on this. I know it is hard to believe, but the work with primary children is actually deeper quicker as there is so much less unlearning of what comprehension is for them. We find that most of the instruction happens in the form of listening comprehension with the teacher modeling by thinking aloud in text that is (for some) not decodable. Comprehension does not come after decoding, they develop simultaneously. So, while the kids may be practicing their decoding in text at their level, the teacher is spending time every day modeling in very complex, abstract, even symbolic text and showing them --- even the kinders --- exactly how a proficient reader comprehends.
Laura - As a follow up, does it surprise you that most readers feel this book is geared towards upper grade students? Was that your intention when you wrote?
ellin - It's funny, because so many of the classroom teachers about whom I wrote in the early chapters especially, were k and 1st grade teachers. I have a theory about this --- many of us have an outdated definition of comprehension --- we really don't go much further than --- does this make sense? retell what you remember. .. do you understand this detail or that concept? when we talk to kids. This work implies a much deeper probing of the concepts, ideas and images that lie far below the "do you understand this level. I think that a lot of teachers may believe that the symbolic arena is the domain of the older child and adult. We have found that in fact (as so many of you as primary teachers realize) that the imagination and symbolic life of the young child is the perfect place to begin to explore deep levels of comprehension. They are less inhibited and less afraid to explore abstract ideas. We get the most absolutely amazing stuff from kids in the early primary grades.
Victoria - As a K/1 teacher who's responsible for leading a 14 teacher team, I'm wondering how you would suggest we begin the process in our clasrooms ... slowly, of course, but where is the best place to start?
Laura - What modifications does the early grade teacher need to make when introducing your ideas?
ellin - I think that it really is in making enough time in each day to devote to your instruction and practice in working with words and your time to think aloud and let them talk to each other about the comprehension strategy you are currently teaching. I have seen children working with text in pairs and small groups where one or more of the children is reading more sophisticated words, helping each other read and explore the comprhension strategy.
Laura - There was much discussion about the role of visualizing in comprehension. Do you feel that we need to teach children how to visualize in order to deepend their comprehension? How do you define visualizing ? Many see it as the ability to form pictures in the mind.
ellin - Yes. I observed with interest your recent conversation about visualizing. I feel it is much more accurately represented as creating sensory images --- including and possibly most importantly emotional images. I did not give this adequate attention in Mosaic, but recent brain research on learning and memory has persuaded me of the importance of emotional images ... the role of remembered emotions in comrpehending. Many in your list serve believed that they did not visualize as they read. This may well be true in some texts in which they are not challenged. When reading text, the images -- from all senses and the emotions --- that a reader spontaneously and purposefully generates, are actually used by the reader to deepen comprhension. I therefore think it is terribly important to teach sensory images.
Laura - So you think we can read without forming a visualization, and more importantly comprehend?
ellin - Laura, we can comprehend superficially, which may be enough for some text demands, but when the reader wants to explore, through his/her thinking surprising and wholly new ideas, maybe unimagined even by the author, I think and the research would suggest that they need to be able to kick this strategy into action.
Laura - Would it be good to start in the early grades by making the reasons we have picked a book to read aloud known to the children. We can describe our connection to them - text to ... ?
ellin - Remember that my definition of comprehension is the multi-faceted, purposeful exploration of ideas in order to remember them and use them subsequently. It isn't always necessary to do this.
ellin - I think it is necessary, however, a whole lot more than we currently do it in classrooms.
ellin - For me it really is a matter of seeing how far the kids can probe an idea and reapply in a variety of contexts later.
Laura - Ellin, before we take the first question - is there a web site for the Literacy Project that is discussed in your book that gives more information, or have the ideas been published in journals that tell "how" to do this in your classroom.
ellin - Yes there are quite a few journal articles that our staff have written and a huge amount of information we've developed for staff development purposes. The web site is http://www.pebc.org and is pathetic because noone has a chance to update it --- help ---- but it's a fabulous organization and is a real think tank for these ideas. you have to come visit us!!
ellin - Ok, I am behind now (typical). Always late, too. Let me answer your earlier question.
ellin - I can't find your question now Laura, but think it was about how early we start. The answer is day one kindergarten and now we're exploring pre-K.
Tammy - I'm not about how to go about assessing which of the skills the students need to start with and continue learning, i.e. text connections, questioning, etc. And also is it necessary to spend six weeks on each? I'm afraid we'd never get thru everything. Or is that important?
ellin - Great questions, Tammy. The assessment piece is very tricky because, of course, you're assessing thinking. The Major Point Interview for Readers (appendix) has been extremely useful and we've correlated it statistically (very strong positive correlation) to assessment instruments such as the Flynt-Cooter and the QRI2 -- page 228 -- The important thing is to, through conferences, through sharing sessions, through major point (regularly scheduled) assessment, ask questions to which they respond about their thinking during the reading of a given passage. The MPIR has been useful, but I recently had to rewrite it as the kids were getting so great, they blew the lid off the rubric.
The rest of your question, Tammy, yes, we are finding that each strategy should be taught in a variety of genre, assuming that the teacher will model with picture books, non-fiction, journalism (yes, even the little guys) poetry and other genres. By the time you have modeled and kids have had a chance to experiment in each of the genres, you really have eaten up weeks and weeks. I don't know of any of our skilled teachers, Tammy, who are getting through all seven in a year. There is no particular order suggested either through our experience or in the research. Many start with schema because it is easier for us to understand and the result is that strategies such as synthesis and determining importance get left out altogether.
Heart - I was interested in your thoughts about what is appropriate reader response? Worksheet, questions are not appropriate. What is?
ellin - Heart --- yes you're right about that. We really think about reader response in four ways: oral, written, artistic and dramatic. We say to the kids something like, ok you guys. It is your responsibility to show us your thinking. This is tricky. Think about these four options --- oral, written, artistic, and dramatic, and choose one that will best reveal your thinking about the book I read to you this morning or the book you're reading during workshop right now. They come up with amazing options. Some predictable old favorites like using two or three column notes (the detail from the book, my use of questioning as i read, how it helped me to comprehend more deeply, with very innovative dramatic, artistic and oral ways to show their thinking and their use of a strategy they are learning at that time. Book clubs of course, are great venues for their think alouds. They can all be reading a different book and come to the book club to discuss their use of a strategy and how it helped them comprehend more deeply. The important thing is to let them generate the options and take responsibility for how they will reveal their thinking.
TM - Ellin, the basal that I use focuses its comprehension instruction on ideas like character, setting, plot, cause/effect, etc. Where do these things fit in with the strategies from Mosaic?
ellin - Another fourteen hour response!
ellin - We are teaching text structures such as those you mentioned and expository and poetic text structure as the "skeleton" of text much as the comprhension strategies are the "skeleton" of the mind. We know that text structures help kids to predict and therefore to make logical guesses about what is coming next, a very important strategy, but not a comprehension strategy. We can teach them text structures forever and still face the dilemma about how you get kids to explore ideas in text --- how you get them to remember what they have read. The strategies working as tools of the mind help us all do that.
TM - So would they fit best into the prior knowledge strategy so that students know the different text structures and refer back to them when encountering new text?
ellin - I really don't think it matters. Teach them when the text is particularly conducive to that instruction and don't forget to teach expository text structures!
Laura - Ellin, thank you so much for coming tonight. When is your next book due out?
ellin - Ha! That would imply that I was actually engaged in writing one. Actually I'm very interested and beginning to write about the applications of the comprehension strategies across the curriculum. Teachers here are doing some amazing things by integrating curriculum, not by topic or theme, but by comprhension strategy. For example, how do mathematicians and scientists determine what is important, how do writers use background knowledge, etc. It is really interesting work and I do have a book in the works, thank you for asking and of course i'm happy to answer another questions.
Laura - Our reading group is currently reading a book on integrating curriculum. Sounds very interesting. When can we expect it o:)
ellin - Around the turn of the next millenia, i'm afraid. I need susan to sit me down and make me do it!
Terry - I want to ask Ellin how she uses mosaics with four blocks
ellin - Briefly Terry, we have a lot of people in various stages of working with four blocks, guided reading and other structures. I find that rather than thinking about any one of those structures, it makes more sense to think about time for whole group modeling, follow up conferences with kids and opportunities to share with other readers. It has not been as useful to try to focus comprehension instruction at a time or in a setting where you are giving very focused attention to word instruction.
Laura - Ellin - Thank you so much for coming tonight. For those of you who haven't already read Mosaic of Thought, it is well worth your time. I know I speak for all of us when we say your book has changed many of our thoughts about teaching comprehension.
ellin - I am happy to answer more questions and/or to shedule another chat if anyone is interested.
Laura - We would love to have you back for another chat - soon!
Laura - Does anyone have another question for Ellin tonight?
ellin - You're so welcome. My sincere thanks to all of you for your interest and effort in exploring this important work.
Victoria - And it was a wonderful first book for Laura and I to share in getting our group up and running!
Heart - i REMEMBER! Point and Slide.. why does that strategy work? It DOES work. But I wonder why it does when letters have different sounds...vowels.
ellin - It works, the research would suggest, because the word is gradually revealed to the reader visually. It breaks down the words into manageable chunks. Some words anyway.
Laura - Is there a schedule for your upcoming workshops? I will most likely catch you in CT in August.
ellin - My office jhendricks@pebc.org has a list of where I'll be when. You are welcome to contact her.
Laura - do you discuss most of what is in Mosaic at your workshops?
ellin - depends on the audience, i try to customize based on the needs of the group.
Laura - This concludes our chat for tonight. Thank you all for coming. Ellin, do you have any final comments.
ellin - Just to thank you all again for your work in exploring the intellect with children. When I think about my own 10 year old and her teachers, nothing is more important to me than her exposure to the power of her own mind.
ellin - I know you feel that way about all the children you touch, too.
Heart - Thank you so much!
Laura - We look forward to having you join us again, and hope that your new book is out soon :o)
Laura - Mosaic of Thought
is available from Amazon and is a must read for all educators. Goodnight all.
Beth - Thank you. This has changed the way i approach comprehension
