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judy3ca - Oh, dear, too many topics. I've been working on inference the last few weeks and will continue with the strategy next week. This week we used fairy tales and next week we'll move to fables.
Brad/3 - mine have trouble with inferencing, judy, how are yours doing?
judy3ca - Quite well, Brad. The messages they drew from fairy tales were pretty good. Do you know the book "The Three Pigs" by David Wiesner?
Brad/3 - i believe so
judy3ca - Brad, it's the one where the pigs sort of fly off the pages. A kid said the message was "stay in your own story." Not an exact inference, but inferential thinking I guess.
naneb - judy, I had my students prove their inference with evidence from the text, we played a kind of game called Prove It! they had to show direct evidence to substantiate their inference and someone else could offer evidence against them. It really made the kids dig into the text and not just make guesses
Brad/3 - what do you all believe is a good time frame for each strategy?
judy3ca - I like your game, Nan, but do you have trouble defining the textual clues?
judy3ca - Brad, I change my mind about this all of the time. But my goal for next year is to follow Debbie Miller's example and do all of the strategies next school year.
Brad/3 - my goal also, i'm just wondering how long should you spend scaffolding
judy3ca - Brad, I change my mind about this all of the time. But my goal for next year is to follow Debbie Miller's example and do all of the strategies next school year.
naneb - I was pretty liberal with the clues, it just had to sustantiate their inference
judy3ca - Nan, okay, thanks--because I tell my kids that if it's directly stated in the text, then they're not inferring.
naneb - but there should be evidence to show how they figured it out
judy3ca - Brad, I'm thinking about 4-5 weeks per strategy next year and hopefully I'll run out of time and not have to teach Synthesis.
judy3ca - Brad, I also take a week off here and there to study a skill (like sequence).
judy3ca - Hi, Debbie.
Debbie - hi
Brad/3 - do you all use a basal or are you lit-based
Debbie - we have a basal and it is scripted, BORING!!
Debbie - I use MOT during my language arts block
naneb - I use trade books
judy3ca - I use anything that supports the strategy: basal, tradebooks, articles.
Brad/3 - nan, do you have whole class sets or what?
judy3ca - Debbie, I'd die a thousand deaths with scripted reading. We have scripted math that I can live with--but reading is so different!
Debbie - My kids are enjoying reading nonfiction tradebooks, picture type- to write their own teaching book, . It is going very well.
Debbie - we are wrokign on determining importance as well as synthesis
Brad/3 - Debbie--I always say I went to school to teach, not read out of a book
Debbie - yes, I know but my district swears by READING Mastery
Debbie - I have no choice
judy3ca - Sorry, must go join the family (it's only 8:00 in CA). Nice talking to you all.
Debbie - night judy
Brad/3 - bye judy
naneb - Brad, I have some class sets and sometimes I do book clubs and focus on a theme like pioneers or i do an author study and everyone reads a different book by the same author
Brad/3 - you do 4b, right, nan?
Debbie - good evening Mae, how is your baby doing ( neice's )
Debbie - hi Kathy
Kathy/IA - Good evening all! How is everyone doing?
Mae - stable, it's really all very complicated - I just don't know
naneb - yes, Brad I am a newbie at it but I am trying
Mae - I probably won't chat long tonight
Debbie - stable is good, I pray all is well for you and yours
Kathy/IA - I'm pretty excited ... guess who I had dinner with last night and tonight!
Mae - Thanks. I wanted to ask if anyone is using both STW and Wondrous Words already in class
Debbie - who kathy?
Mae - Who?
Kathy/IA - Anne Goudvis and Debbie Miller!!!!!!
Debbie - Mae, I am using STW but haven't read WW yet
Mae - NO WAY!!! GET OUT OF HERE!!!
Kathy/IA - YEP!!!
Debbie - How did you manage that Kathy?
Kathy/IA - They are in town to do a workshop where I work - today and they do one tomorrow.
Debbie - COOL!! WAY COOL
Sharon - *waves hello*
Mae - Send them to Texas!!!
Brad/3 - i didn't know they workshopped
Debbie - hi Sharon
Mae - hello sharon
Kathy/IA - I was in charge of it today - so picked them up from the hotel and then took them to dinner.
Brad/3 - how was it?
Debbie - I wonder what they charge?
Kathy/IA - WONDERFUL!
Kathy/IA - I'm not sure on the amount - our office takes care of all that.
Mae - I had to give the state test this week, so I just couldn't help myself - I read Wondrous Words while the kids were testing
Debbie - did they speak to primary or all levels?
Brad/3 - did you enjoy it, Mae
Kathy/IA - I need to get WW - I haven't ordered it yet.
Mae - I LOVED WW!
Debbie - oh, those awful state tests, we did ours too
Sharon - judy and nan..... are you two here?
Brad/3 - it's a good read, and the stuff on text structures was very enlightening
Kathy/IA - Basically primary, but we had k-5 teachers at the workshop. After lunch they incorporated the upper grades.
Mae - She talks about first reading as a reader, and then reading again as a writer
Debbie - I have it but I refuse to pick it up until I finish STW
naneb - Hi, Sharon
Kathy/IA - Text structures are in WW? Oh now I have to get it!
Sharon - hi nan.... how was the visit with your twin? good, i hope
Mae - Oh, I still have to get to STW. I think I just needed a break from the subject of reading
Kathy/IA - We do a lot with text structures with our initiative in Iowa.
Brad/3 - mae, do you believe the stuff in WW is too complex for primary.
Mae - The way she talks about text structures and writer's techniques is truly eye-popping
naneb - partied way too much in New Orleans, but it was great!! We went to the National D Day museum what an awesome place that is!!
Mae - No, Brad, I don't
Mae - I found another book...
Debbie - MAe, I forget what grade do you teach
Debbie - MAe, I forget what grade do you teach
Sharon - great.... glad you had fun.... has she left now?
naneb - Uh,OH!! Now what!!
Brad/3 - go ahead
naneb - she flies out in the morning
Kathy/IA - We use the text structures way down to Kindergarten, here. You just need to model, model, model!
Mae - Text Forms and Features: A Resource for Intentional Teaching by Margaret Mooney
Mae - I teach 4th, but I'm really, really hoping to move to 2nd
Kathy/IA - That sounds good, Mae.
Brad/3 - Mae, I knew there was something I wanted to ask you, how does this book work?
Mae - I've only seen the spec. I'm going to order it.
Kathy/IA - Have you looked at the book Jerry Johns has on writing? He has some text structure work along with graphic organizers, etc... for each.
Mae - Brad, are you familiar w/6 traits?
Brad/3 - yes
Brad/3 - i assume, intentional teaching, means the book is very pratical
Mae - I saw WW blending in beautifully w/ 6 traits, but then again, everything in writing does...
Mae - It sounds practical. I hope so!
Brad/3 - ita, that's what i like about 4b too
naneb - I am going to bed, good night everyone!!
Mae - What is the name of Jerry Johns book?
Brad/3 - where did you see spec, i went on amazon
Kathy/IA - Night Naneb
Debbie - I just received a huge book FREE from the National Reading Panel ( on-line) , it is very technical but I think it will be a good resource, it is research on reading instruction
Kathy/IA - I can't remember the name. Let me look it up.
Mae - Debbie - is that the one that Ginny posted?
Kathy/IA - There's been a lot of negative coming from the National Reading Panel.
Sharon - all parts of reading instruction or the research on comprehension?
Kathy/IA - I just got a book called Resisting Reading Mandates - very enlightening!
Debbie - I am not sure, Mae , but I probably did see it on the board
Mae - Check out the IRA site. They have an online journal now for free
Mae - So many books, so little time.
Debbie - all parts of reading instruction, including, phonics, fluency, comprehension, and technology
Brad/3 - so what kind of secrets can you share from workshop, sharon?
Sharon - workshop?
Brad/3 - i mean kathy
Sharon - oooooh
Mae - Oh, yes, please, do tell...
Kathy/IA - I'm not having any luck finding the Jerry Johns book. I'm looking at the Kendall Hunt site (the publisher) and can't find it.
Mae - If you find the name of it, will you post it on the Pro Rdng board?
Kathy/IA - They used the FQR (Fact Question Response) from Anne's book.
Mae - I'm really into wanting to know and understand text structures
Kathy/IA - I will, Mae - I have the book at work.
Brad/3 - mae, i believe that's the next "big thing" don't you?
Mae - Thanks, Kathy
Mae - Oh, yes. You should have seen all of the nonfiction at the reading conference. A lot of talk on text structures, nonfiction, and 6 traits!
Kathy/IA - Debbie also talked a lot about the importance of building community within the classroom. They used the Strategies in Action Video to show Debbie's class. She's pretty amazing!
Kathy/IA - And so are her students.
Mae - We are on the cutting edge!
Brad/3 - the thing i liked about WW is she gave the structures such practical names.
Mae - I'm really big into building a community. It really makes a difference in classroom management, and how the kids respond to instruction.
Kathy/IA - The used Anchor Charts quite a bit - in fact at dinner we were getting a little silly on inferring, and anchor charts, and I wonder books, etc...
Debbie - http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/nrppubskey.cfm
Brad/3 - and they are more specific than "compare/contrast, temporal order, and such"
Mae - Diller's books is based on a 1st grade classroom, right?
Debbie - here's the site to order the reading Panel's report, it really is worth owning a copy
Brad/3 - I was confused by Anchor Charts, can you explain again?
Mae - I think it's important to put on the labels.
Kathy/IA - Yes. It is based on her experiences - but I saw a lot of my former 5th grade classroom in it.
Kathy/IA - Just be careful with the Panel report. The Panel was pretty onesided - and the only educator on the panel is coming out with some interesting things.
Debbie - Jan would be proud of me, looking into research based instruction
Mae - I checked with our education service center for the videos - they don't have them
Mae - If you ever need to know the research, ask Jan - she really does her homework.
Kathy/IA - They used the charts to "anchor" their thinking. She modeled one that they did as a class.
Mae - I'm going to put the videos in their "suggestion box"
Mae - How did the charts work?
Debbie - The panel report has quite an extensive bibliography list
Kathy/IA - In a variety of ways - I left my notes in my office and I'm drawing a blank right now. I'll look at them tomorrow.
Mae - Didn't the panel create a negative w/how they handled their comments on SSR?
Mae - Post your notes
Brad/3 - please
Mae - *
Kathy/IA - The Panel, and The Bush - No Child Left Behind - and the new Reading First Grant that is coming out all used "scientifically based" research. Many important pieces of research weren't used.
Kathy/IA - My notes don't make much sense, since I was in and out of the room a lot .... making sure that the lunches were all there, and more copies were made, etc...
Mae - I don't understand Kathy
Kathy/IA - I'm going to be at their workshop tomorrow - I'll try to take better notes.I knew a lot of Debbies stuff was in her book.
Mae - Debbie's book is based on a 1st grade classroom, correct?
Brad/3 - did debbie give any recommendations on pacing
Kathy/IA - Scientifically based research needs a control group. Much of the finding only led to what we know of as 'scripted' programs - and not the good teaching of reading that we are seeing with things like MOT, and STW, etc...
Mae - Ohhh, well, what will that do to us? It won't shake our tree, or will it?
Brad/3 - kathy, i want kids that don't just read, but CHOOSE to read
Kathy/IA - The program that the Bush administration is pushing seems to be McGraw Hill/Open Court. The Bush Family and McGraw Family have been friends for many years.
Brad/3 - figures, texas is a big textbook state
Kathy/IA - A lot could shake our tree - the "scientifically based" wording is in the No Child Left Behind ... federal mandates.
Alta Rose / 1 - That's my goal, too, Brad. Sure is hard in this day and age of competing with nintendos and playstations!
Kathy/IA - Exactly, Brad!!!!!
Kathy/IA - On both your last comments.
Mae - Our school uses Open Court. I don't know much about it, but they really use it in 1st. 2nd doesn't even need to touch phonics. But our kids can read. I really think it's because they do such an awesome job building the foundation in 1st. They also use Fountas and Pinnel and Cunningham
Kathy/IA - That's good that they are using a wide variety - balanced program.
Brad/3 - and to go outside, i actually told one girl to go outside when she got home because they were forecasting rain for the rest of the weekend rather than playing nintendo as she intended.
Kathy/IA - I haven't seen Open Court myself - so I really can't say too much about it.
Brad/3 - i haven't seen open court either, but hear nightmares about its relevance
Alta Rose / 1 - Me neither, Kathy. We probably don't have it here.
Mae - I'm in Tx., and they have started a new certification program called the Master Reading Teacher. I completed it last year. It's all because of Bush's "every child can read deal." It was very hard, but it covered the strategies, and all of the good teaching for reading
Brad/3 - interesting
Mae - There is a political debate in California on Open Court. I've heard that it's not really on the merits of the program at all.
Kathy/IA - That's very good to hear, Mae!!!
Mae - www.texasreading.org
Brad/3 - i just worry about turning off more children to reading with these "programs"
Alta Rose / 1 - Knowing nothing about Open Court--What's the general consensous--good or bad?
Mae - Check out that site for the professional development guides. It hits it all - from phonics research to reciprocal teaching to the strategies that good readers use
Brad/3 - i just heard extremely programmed
Mae - Jan likes it - and I respect her opinion. I'm not real grounded in phonics, but I'm really trying to learn
Kathy/IA - Regie Routman - (saw her at the Iowa Reading Conference two weeks ago) really stressed to "watch" all the programs! We need good sound teaching. I just bought a book today that is called I Shop, You Shop - goes though making good sound decisions.
Brad/3 - has anyone tried reciprocal teaching?
Mae - It's scripted, but I spoke to a teacher who has taught for 25 years, and she said that she thought she wouldn't like it but does. Of course, she just takes it and goes, but for a NEW teacher, the scripts come in handy.
Alta Rose / 1 - Pardon my ignorance, Brad. What's that?
Mae - Reciprocal teaching is sound
Kathy/IA - A little bit, Brad. More in the lines of literature circles - which comes from reciprical teaching.
Brad/3 - can you explain it mae
Brad/3 - when would you begin reciprocal? As early as 2nd?
Kathy/IA - There are 4 main components (correct me if I'm wrong on them, Mae
Mae - It's made up of these components: predicting, clarifying, visualizing, questioning, and summarizing
Brad/3 - i think summarize is one of them
Kathy/IA - I was close!
Kathy/IA - I'm getting responding mixed up with Debbie and Anne!
Mae - You have to teach each part separately and then you pull then all together as one
Brad/3 - would you say reciprocal teaching could be taught as the "monitoring comprehension" component of the PEBC strategies?
Mae - It's really like bringing the strategies together, integrating them
Brad/3 - so would you start doing this in 2nd?
Kathy/IA - Good definition, Mae!
Mae - All of these are in the 2nd grade TEKS (Tx curriculum). In fact, all of the strategies are in the TEKS!
Brad/3 - and how would you incorporate this with MOT?
Mae - Kim does it in kinder
Brad/3 - i'm just full of questions, sorry
Mae - It's all one in the same really, just a different way of approaching certain strategies
Mae - It's researched based as a powerful combo of strategies
Brad/3 - are any of you familiar with the "stances" for reading
Kathy/IA - It's good to hear these are in the TEKS ... we've only hear horror stories of the tx curriculum. I'm glad to get a new take on it!!!! I'm feeling better - Thanks, Mae!!
Alta Rose / 1 - Isn't that much like what's in MOT? (Which Chapters is far behind in shipping to me! Arg!)
Kathy/IA - Taffy Raphael (with CIERA) has done a lot with Reciprical Teaching.
Mae - The horror stories are because of the TAAS - but it's really the districts fault for allowing stupid consultants to sell them a bit of goods!
Mae - The test is changing to reflect the TEKS. You can go to the Texas Education Agency website and see the TEKS for yourself. There isn't anything wrong with them.
Kathy/IA - That's so good to hear!
Mae - Well, except for having more science objectives in 4th than days in the school year! I'm sure you know where my loyalities lie!
Kathy/IA -
Kathy/IA - Can't you teach your science objective with QUALITY NONFICTION!!!!
Kathy/IA - Science is reading - you'll be fine!
Mae - Most teachers in Texas don't know about MOT, STW or the strategies. The Master Reading Teacher was created to help with that, but it's very expensive. I was lucky - our district paid for it!
Mae - That is how I usually teach science! LOL!
Kathy/IA - Don't feel bad, most teachers in Iowa haven't heard of MOT, STW, etc... either!
Alta Rose / 1 - We can't always, Kathy. Our science curriculum has specific concepts / experiments that the kids must do, and there are no books at that level for them to read about these concepts.
Mae - Tx. is also trying to get teachers to take the Reading Academy which is a smaller version of it
Mae - Ok - fess up - do you REALLY get to all of it?
Mae - The textbooks stink. They are way above the kid's reading level!
Brad/3 - Alta, sometimes I just type up something myself at their level. it's an act of bravery but once you've done it, it gets easier
Alta Rose / 1 - A school in my town started Reading Academy a couple of years ago, for their struggling readers. I've heard mixed results about it.
Kathy/IA - We do a lot with a "Read Aloud" strategy. They are short lessons using nonfiction and helping students pull the concept out of the reading.
Mae - I search out other nonfiction.
Brad/3 - i don"t
Alta Rose / 1 - That's a good idea, Brad.
Mae - Alta Rose - you hear mixed results because there are too many teachers that don't won't to do the work, and teaching MOT and STW is HARD work.
Brad/3 - i'm assuming you're first so a lot of repetition and familiar patterns. The moon goes around the Earth. The Earth goes around the sun, etc.
Alta Rose / 1 - ie. One of our grade two science topics is Hot and Cold temperatures. One of the things they are supposed to do is explain (in general terms) how a big building and a house is heated. There are no books on that for them. Every year, my hubby reviews it with me, and I teach the kids! Lol.
Mae - I've written a lot of my own passages.
Brad/3 - i agree teaching this way is hard work, i still feel like i'm flying with no net most days
Alta Rose / 1 - Mae, I was referring to Reading Academy, which is a pull out for struggling readers. They read on the computer.
Kathy/IA - Well ... this has been a very interesting chat ... thanks!!!!!! I love talking to other teachers. I need to get to bed -
Brad/3 - night kathy
Alta Rose / 1 - Is that the same thing you're talking about when you mentioned Reading Academy. I don't think these teachers have heard about MOT or STW.
Brad/3 - i have been working recently on making the reading more relevant; reading in response to something.
Brad/3 - i think it's been motivating them a little more
Mae - Different reading academy! I was talking about the week long workshop being offered across the state by the education service centers
Alta Rose / 1 - Oh!
Alta Rose / 1 - Mae, I was interested in the post you made re. spelling a couple of days ago on the main board.
Mae - Isn't it funny how more than one thing gets the same name in education? We need to have lingo copyrights!
Alta Rose / 1 - Lol!
Mae - Spelling drives me crazy!
Alta Rose / 1 - My husband is the smartest person I know. He is very strong in math and science and reads about quantum physics. He can't spell at all.
Mae - It's late and my child is in going to bed distress - I'm really going to have to call it a night
Mae - My hubby too!
Brad/3 - me also
Mae - good night
Alta Rose / 1 - Me too. Thanks!
Brad/3 - night all
