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Sandy/K/Mo - Hi welcome to our discussion on phonological awareness
Lace - Hi I teach at risk 3rd graders and our school is trying to utilize phonemic awareness.
sandy - good. We have had a lot of luck using phonics at our school
sandy - Have you done anything with it Lace?
sandy - Kat... the article you found will be helpful
sandy - Grace what grade are you teaching?
kat/kathleen - Grace can be helpful too..
Lace - I am just beginning--have been to a great workshop
Grace - I'm retired from first grade
kat/kathleen - Lace, what was the topic of your workshop?
sandy - Were you phonics based?
Grace - Sandy, are you addressing me? Yes, I did a lot of experimenting with many phonics programs.
kat/kathleen - Does anyone feel qualified to define/distinguish between phonics and phonological awareness?
Anne - Hi Grace Mrs. Alphabet is here
kat/kathleen - Grace has authored a book about a ..I think I'll let Grace tell you about her book :-)
sandy - Hi Sarah Please Grace that would be great
Tony B/CA - Kat, if I may be so bold, I might venture to say that phonics implies formal instruction; while phonological awareness implies a more natural occurance that we observe in a child... close?
Grace - I've missed you lately, Anne. The name of my book is The Spel-Lang Tree: Roots. It's a first level program designed to use children's phonological awareness in combination with spelling words.
Tony B/CA - occurence... that is
Mary K&1 - Hi All,... Tony, that's how I see it.
Anne - I agree Tony, what do you think Grace?
kat/kathleen - Tony, well, phonological awareness can be taught, as I understand it..but phonics I think implies more the set of rules for pronouncing letters and letter combos, while phonological awareness is more the ability to distinguish the sounds..
Grace - Phonological awareness occurs naturally is some children but those who fail to develop it on their own are the ones most likely to fail in reading and spelling instruction. For some children it MUST be taught.
Anne - Grace, what research backs up teaching phonics?
Tony B/CA - yes, Kat, I see your point.
Mary K&1 - We can provide the child with experiences that foster phonological awareness, but it's not filled with rules
kat/kathleen - Do we agree that there is an important differnce between phonics and phonological awareness?
Tony B/CA - Ah, Grace, what strategies can be used to develop phonological awareness in early elementary? Anyone? (I like this)
SAM - Hi-this is my first time joining in ,however I view alot. Phonomeic awareness deals with oral activities which prepare children for the sounding and blending of sounds into words.
Sarahw/TX - Out of PHONICS they USE by P. Cunningham" This ability to manipulate sounds <refering to strings of rhyming words> is caled phonological awarness."
Mary K&1 - Yes, Kat, that's how I see it.
Grace - We now know that it is the summary of research rather than any particular study. Marilyn Adam's book, Learning to Read: Thinking and Learning about Print is one of the best summaries.
kat/kathleen - I am trying to make up for what kids no longer get at an early age, lots of rhyming, alliteration, etc.
Sarahw/TX - What many children have missed certainly shows by 2nd/ 3rd grade!
sandy - we do a lot of rhyming in our "everyday" school talk.. as games and talking
Anne - Marilyn Adams disputes many of the rules and discloses various % where rules do not apply.
Mary K&1 - I do a lot of "in the ear and out the mouth" activities with the kids
Grace - Activities to use? Try having the child separate syllables into sounds as in m-a-n. You can do this with words that begin with continuants as f, m, n, s, v but it doesn't work with stop consonants as b, d, etc. Rhyming words are good. Also have a child say a word and leave off the last sound.
Peachy - Sounds interesting, Mary. Please explain.
Anne - What is in the ear outh of the mouth, Mary?
Grace - Anne, that's why we have to teach 'generalities' instead of rules.
Tony B/CA - When I student taught Kindergarten, we used a program I believe was aimed at developing phonological awareness called Jim Stone's Animated Alphabet. Loaded with alliterative verse, song, and dance - each letter sound was taught this way (plus combos). Gr
Anne - I like that Grace
Mary K&1 - Songs, rhymes, and word games and always a lot of talking ... the kids not only listen, but they must also experiment
Tony B/CA - ...great
sandy - agree Mary
Anne - I developed a system called Alphamime that uses multiple intelligences.
Peachy - Tell us about it, Anne
sandy - Anne.. tell us principal is BIG into MI
kat/kathleen - Anne, go ahead and tell us more
Sarahw/TX - tell us more ann
Tony B/CA - please ellaborate Anne - sounds interesting...
Mary K&1 - In the ear and out the mouth is basically this, I model and they try to copy or repeat what I've said
Grace - Another way of helping some children is to make them aware of where some of the speech sounds occur in the mouth. For example, try saying 'sit' and 'so' and feel the difference in the way your face feels on the 's'
Anne - I use associational cues to illicit responses from children, strong body language!
kat/kathleen - mary, do you use tongue twisters?
Peachy - I do, Kat
kat/kathleen - I understand that tongue twisters are effectivefor phon. awareness
SAM - Open Court has added this as a component of heir Phonics Kit and Scholastic Literacy Place also has this type of lessons included in their program.
sandy - I do some but this year I ran into a problem with to many missing front teeth for LONG periods of time
Mary K&1 - Not tongue twisters ... unless they are really easy, mostly rhyming things or word play like making nonsense rhymes out of their names
kat/kathleen - Sam, I didn't know that about Scholastic Literacy Place
Grace - Tongue twisters are good because of alliteration. They also help with articulation.
sandy - their sounds just weren't coming out right
Sarahw/TX - LOL!sandy!
kat/kathleen - banana fana bo-bana????
Pris - I use a modified version of word bingo with 2nd grade at-risk students. I sound out words such as /b i g/ and they have to locate the word on their bingo cards. The winner trades places with me and sounds out the words.
Grace - Kat, that's great! Does anyone remember how to do Pig Latin?
Sarahw/TX - My "3rd's" are just too wordly for banana-fana! (they think!)
Sarahw/TX - ure-sha ace-gra!
kat/kathleen - Pris, could the kids play the game in a way that asks them to account for how many sounds there are in each word? some people use tokens..kids take a token for each sound
Tony B/CA - Great, Pris, sounds engaging!
Sarahw/TX - (long a's);-)
sandy - at the end of the year when doing "dictation" with my guys that is how I sound out the words for them /b i g/ stressing each sound
Grace - reat-ga arah-say
Peachy - Have you all already mentioned P at Cunningham's new book: Month By Month Reading And Writing For The Kindergarten?
kat/kathleen - Sara, now I remember...do your students use it?
Sarahw/TX - Kat-- too close to the end of teh year-- I want to save what is left of my sanity-- no, I vhaven't told them LOL!
Mary K&1 - The child is the one who has to learn to say the words slowly so that they can hear all the sound in the word, so we practice saying words very s l ow ly
Tony B/CA - question: do you think computers at early ages can be used as assistive tools in teaching phonological awareness? any examples? or, are they a detriment at these ages?
kat/kathleen - Tony, it would have to have interactive voice..
sandy - When I put my kinders on Word and they get the squiggly red line they know they have to resound
Sarahw/TX - Tony-- I never thought of computers and phonological awareness.
kat/kathleen - And the quality of the sound would have to be better than I've been exposed to
Anne - I find children with speech problems have the most difficulty mastering phonics.
Grace - Mary, yes, slow pronunciation is the key.
kat/kathleen - oh, sandy, now that IS a way to use computers for phonol. awareness, interesting
Sarahw/TX - arn-day-- gotta pick up my kid. BBL
Tony B/CA - OK... I remember the old Apples having a voice box adapter that was used quite a bit in Special Ed. depts...
sandy - and listening to them they really SLOW down and try for the letters
kat/kathleen - Anne, are you talking about the phonics rules, or the phonological awareness?
Tony B/CA - What program is this sandy? Word??
Mary K&1 - Phonological awarness is not linking the visual symbols to the auditory ... doesn't that become phonics when the visual symbols are brought into the picture?
Anne - Both
sandy - Word, I have them type paragraphs, letters..
Grace - Anne, that's true. That's where articulation training can be helpful. The best book I ever found on this subject is "Talking Time" by Louise Binder Scott. It dates back to the 1960s and I don't know if it's currently in print.
Grace - Mary, phonological awareness alone isn't sufficient. It needs to be taught along with spelling.
sandy - Hi again canuk
Mary K&1 - Yes, Grace, but not at first
Anne - 90% of the children I tutor have speech and/or language problems.
Peachy - Grace, she was wonderful!! I still sing her songs!
Pris - Grace, I agree. At least with my 2nd graders.
SAM - Your right Mary - phonemic awareness are oral not visual. It is to get kids to associate auditorally before visual is added .
Mary K&1 - The child must master or become flexable with one thing before you introduce something new ... don't want to over load them...
Mary K&1 - I'm working with kinder kids, first and second and third are very different
kat/kathleen - Grace, phonics without phonological awareness won't work either, right?
Mary K&1 - Anne, speech and language problem kids are usualy the hardest to teach
sandy - Hi BC
BC - Hi Sandy! What's up?
Grace - Mary, right! But it's all related to phonics. If we teach children the \m\ sound, it's helpful to show them the 'm'. The current thinking is to teach only a few sounds like \m\ \n\ & \a\, then combine these into words like 'am', 'an', man'.
Anne - Modeling is an important tool for teaching articulation.
Grace - Kat, that's right.
Pris - I use a lot songs, physical movement, etc., to address multiple intelligences, including visual learners.
kat/kathleen - But, you know, sometimes my artic kids have more awareness of sounds as separate entities because of the speech instruction, often using, as Grace said, the physical cues
canuk - Have you seen the McCraken system for early spelling?
Mary K&1 - Grace, that's kind of what I do with my RR kids, but with the kinder kids, we play with oral things first
Grace - Pris, the more you do with multi-sensory or multiple intelligence things, the more problems you can overcome.
kat/kathleen - (physical cues like tongue placement, voice box vibrations awareness, the flow of air
canuk - It's a lot like what Grace is describing?
kat/kathleen - canuk, I have not seen that, tell us more,
sandy - Anne did I miss how you use with Mulitple Intel.?
Tony B/CA - it is nice to hear early childhood teachers talking about multiple intelligences...
Grace - Canuk, I've seen parts of it. I'm trying to think of the reading system that's related to it.
kat/kathleen - Tony, I think EC people have always ben more aware of MI than other levels
kat/kathleen - We just didn't use the term MI
Mary K&1 - Kat's right!
Anne - I use associatinal cues that trigger imediate responses.
Tony B/CA - I see... I will spread the word - consider me schooled ;)
canuk - The kids use a chalkboard, and you introduce the sound and letter, with the kid drawing a line for the word & putting the target letter intially or finally where they hear it
kat/kathleen - Anne, an example?
Mary K&1 - EC has always been hands on, lots of movement and talk and singing
Grace - Multiple intelligences is not really new. Fernald talked about VAKT (visual, auditory, kinesthetic, tactile) in the 1940s. Even the early Greeks and Romans used some of this.
sandy - example please..
canuk - Has anyone tried the Elkonin mehtod?
Peachy/K/NC - What is that, canuk?
kat/kathleen - Oh, I see canuck, like those, Grace, what are those boxes called?
Anne - I use hand and body signals that trigger a response
Mary K&1 - canuk, that's what we use in RR
kat/kathleen - canuk, educate me!
Pris - Canuk, that sounds like a great approach.
Tony B/CA - I love that attitude, Kat ;)
Grace - Back to MI -- Rebecca Pollard used music to help children learn sounds a hundred years ago.
kat/kathleen - Anne, what type of response are you looking for with the signals, letter sounds?
kat/kathleen - jimmie, hi!! another perspective!
Anne - letter sounds and cluster sounds
Grace - That's what they're called -- Elkonin boxes. Yes, RR uses them too.
kat/kathleen - Anne I wish you could demo so that we could see you! :-)
kat/kathleen - Oh, yes, elkonian boxes..similar to what canuck described..with the slate
Mary K&1 - Kat, is there a Reading Recovery teacher in your building?
Tony B/CA - one day soon, kat, Teachers.Net will make it happen!!
sandy - me too
Jimmie/ESL - Hi, Kathleen. Haven't taught EC, but wanted to drop in. I taught pre-first and first, though.
Anne - Half of my class is reading at the end of first grade or Level 1 running reading record.
Grace - Yes, Anne. We can also call them letter strings used to represent particular blends.
kat/kathleen - pre-first and first are EC. jimmie :-) glad you came
kat/kathleen - No, mary, no RR
sandy - I don't have a reading/phonics series so this is invaluable to me THANKS
Anne - I teach K my children are going to enter 1st grade 1 year ahead.
Mary K&1 - Kat, see if you can get your hands on some of Marie Clay's stuff
kat/kathleen - Marie, if you are out there, please log on..you have a lot to offer here, too!
Tony B/CA - what is 1 year ahead, Anne? how is that represented by students?
kat/kathleen - (that's a message to a friend who is another expert in this field)
Anne - Kat, will teachers.net have facilities to run videos?
kat/kathleen - Thanks, Mary, I will.
sandy - that would be awesome the tech. is there..
kat/kathleen - I expect we will :-) If it can be done, teachers.net will do it!
Anne - By the state standards and testing we have to do 1/2 of my class is considered highly advanced in reading and comprehension.
Pris - My kids used mirrors to watch their mouths forming short vowel sounds and we talked about where those sounds originate. My problem is I didn't see measurable results from those exercises.
Tony B/CA - We are working on a partnership with a video server project currently. We have the capability - if you have suggestions as to a format for, say, a lesson study project - we can put it together over the summer with you.
Jimmie/ESL - Our district uses RR. In the past they have given overviews to teachers. Our Title I teachers work with the kids and also help the teachers with strategies to use in the classroom. Great stuff.
kat/kathleen - Oh, boy, now I have to keep my hair looking good??
judy/wv - Thanks, I am just trying to get a feel for what is going on.
Anne - Grace, please give us more information about letter strings.
Grace - Pris, you may not see it now. Lots of times we plant seeds that sprout later. On the other hand, one doesn't have to overdo all this stuff.
Peachy/K/NC - LOL, Kat!
kat/kathleen - pris, maybe the mirrors in combo with other activities make a diff that is hard to measure
Mary K&1 - Kat, your hair always looks good!
Jimmie/ESL - Hmmmm...mirrors. Lots of my ESL kids have trouble with vowel sounds. Maybe mirrors could help. :)
judy/wv - I'll probably get crushed by this but I haven't seen any TREMEMDOUS results from our RR program.
Grace - Letter strings -- thr, sh, tch, dge, wr, kn, ough -- some of them are much more common and useful than others.
Tony B/CA - We are working to deliver teacher prof. dev. video from many countries (TIMMS project) in many languages - UCLA contacts are brewing.... more news will come through kat, as it unfolds...
kat/kathleen - Grace, is all of this in your book?
judy/wv - Grace are you "Spellangtree"?
sandy - so if I wanted something on the rainforest we could get it?
Anne - Grace, has a great web site that samples some of her lessons.
Jimmie/ESL - judy, I won't crush you. I don't use RR myself, I use the Stevenson method. But one of my little ESL kids has made really great gains with RR. She gets Stevenson with me, too. Some kids do better than others, judy. We're all individuals.
Grace - Judy, most remedial programs are effective in direct relation to what is going on in the classroom. If we depend on RR to do the job alone, it won't get done. On the other hand, if the classroom teacher is doing a good job, remedial programs offer a big boost.
Peachy/K/NC - What is the website, Grace?
sandy - or are you talking things like what we are doing here featuring Grace or Anne's techn.?
Grace - Yes, I am Spel-Lang Tree. No, not all of this information is in the book but it is all practiced there.
Tony B/CA - judy, the major criticism from teachers at my school in San Diego, CA, is that RR reached too few students for the cost. Each RR teacher only took on like 16 students per semester. RR advocates had a tough time selling that to teachers
kat/kathleen - Grace, the title of your book again..
Grace - Peachy, just go to the Primary chatboard. I leave my signature all over it. Just click the blue Spel-Lang Tree
judy/wv - Tony, That has been the criticism here too. I have seen that in written reviews of the program too.
Mary K&1 - Tony, if they are each getting 16 students a semester, they are doing miracles!!!
kat/kathleen - Anne, your url is...?
Anne - We all want to share our techniques.
judy/wv - Mary, I agree. OUr RR teacher took about 4 or 5 kids per semester.
Anne - mrsalphabet.com
Tony B/CA - I see your point too, Mary. I am just sharing the info, not necessarily my personal view ;)
Mary K&1 - When you are getting the lowest of the low, It takes close to 20 weeks to get them where they need to be. Can only have 4 at a time in a half day program
Pris - Oh Grace, I didn't realize you are Spel-Lang. I follow your advice all the time.
meeha/ece/tx - Hello! Sorry i'm so late -- what are we talking agout tonite?
Anne - I use peer tutors to help the strugglers.
Grace - Anne, you have to post that like I do. I'm having a lot of trouble trying to get some of these sites via 'search'. I haven't see it yet. To Judy, no I'm not familiar with that one. I'm always eager to see new programs.
kat/kathleen - Phonological Awareness, meeha ;-)
Mary K&1 - The bottom line in any program is what goes on in the regular classroom, regular classroom teachers are the most important ingredient in any school anywhere!!!
sandy - hi meeha was taking down the sites :-) welcome
judy/wv - I may be way off base here, but I see sooo many teachers who teach the sounds incorrectly making blending a nightmare for many unchallenged kids. Any of you ever see that?
kat/kathleen - judy, do you mean er for /r/???
Tony B/CA - judy, explain...
sandy - hoping that I am not one of those
Anne - Yes, Judy they add extra sounds.
kat/kathleen - or muh for /m/
judy/wv - right on kat and ruh for /r/. ru a bu it (rabbit)
Mary K&1 - The worst is /bu/ for /b/
Boni - Hi all! Just trying to catch up on what your discussing!
sandy - Hi welcome to our discussion on phonological awareness
Grace - Yes, Judy. Whenever we teach \b\ as 'buh' we have taught something that needs to be unlearned. Stop consonants such as b, d, g, h, need to be taught either with a vowel behind them or as a mouth formation. For example, I teach \b\ as Baby Bass opening his mouth to blow bubbles.
kat/kathleen - The Discovery Toys sounds song does that..I have to point it out to the kids.
J@Va - Hello, everyone! what do you mean by teach the letter sunds incorrectly? I use alphabet stories.
Pris - It's hard sometimes not to add vowel sounds to letters like h.
Boni - Those of us that teach in the south have it wven worse! My kids think pin and pen are the same word saw is sall
judy/wv - Do you all teach some sounds are '"stop sounds" and some are not?
judy/wv - Boni we have the same problem here too.
Grace - H is the panting dog sound. That makes it easy -- just a bit of air forthcoming.
Mary K&1 - That's why word chunks are better to teach than isolated letter sounds
kat/kathleen - how bout jersey where oil and earl sound the same (both erl)
Sarahw/TX - back just in time to have to leave again. Will this be transcripted somewhere?
judy/wv - Yes, that's right grace. Not huh. right?
kat/kathleen - in Texas all and oil are pronounced the same :-) (awl)
sandy - I am glad I am "midwest pure" Laughing
Mary K&1 - Boni, I'm in the north and have the same problem
kat/kathleen - Sara, I think that is an excellent idea!
Boni - We were doing /t/ words and one of my kids said tar so I wrote tar on the board come to find out it was tire!
kat/kathleen - hello, friendly :-)
Grace - Boni, in the north kids have a tendency to say aig for egg and laig for leg. I simply tell them they can say anything they want at home but at school, they have to learn the correct pronunciation or they're never going to learn to spell.
Sarahw/TX - kat-- sure would like to see it. Hate to have missed so much!
kat/kathleen - Sara, yes to the transcript (with Mary's help :-)
judy/wv - Boni where are you from? Every built a far in the farplace???? haha
friendly - hi this is my first opportunity to chat
kat/kathleen - what's wrong with aig?? ;-)
Sarahw/TX - cool! party on dudes! (is that duh-udes?) LOL!
Boni - I'm from Calif and Iowa, but teach in Georgia - after 8 years I'm actually beginning to understand them!
Mary K&1 - Kat, no problem, I'd love to do it!
sandy - welcome friendly
Tony B/CA - what's everyone's opinion of "Hooked on Phonics"?
judy/wv - Kat is it hard boiled?
Grace - It's supposed to be 'egg' with a short e, not a long a.
friendly - hello, kat :-)
kat/kathleen - friendly, well, it's nice to have you here at our early childhood meeting..listen or jump in, whatever makes you comfortable :-)
friendly - hi sandy
Boni - I've had some parents use Hooked and they liked it, but it moves very fast - I've never used it in the classroom.
kat/kathleen - Tony, I'm afraid of the message hooked on Phonics sends, worry that parents will do phonics in too isolated a way.
judy/wv - Tony, I have never seen the program. I heard it was boring.
Boni - We've been using Sing, Spell, Read, Write and I like it a lost
Mary K&1 - Tony, works for some, but not for others ... makes for great word by word readers ... interfers with fluency
Boni - lot - not lost
Grace - Tony, any program that does the job is OK. Hooked on Phonics has a couple of sound presentations I didn't agree with and they were fairly expensive. I'm not sure they're in business anymore.
friendly - I've never used Hooked On Phonics
Grace - Yeah, Boni! I used SSRW for years.
Tony B/CA - My school bought it for 3-5th graders who were below 30 on the ASAT - it was a pull-out. I have mixed opinions.
sandy - just wanted to say how much I enjoy these.. find out I am doing some things right after all :-)
judy/wv - Have any of you used The Phonics Game?
kat/kathleen - Tony, what opinions?
J@Va - what company publishes sing, spell and write?
Boni - Sing, Spell is great because the kids learn the letter sound in songs and you KNOW they remember songs!
Peachy/K/NC - I never used Hooked On Phonics, but I can sing the commercial in my sleep!
kat/kathleen - sandy, you do alot with your kids, alot right, I mean, lots of great activities!!
sandy - our first through fifth went to a readng program that was literature NOT phonics based and scores dropped big time
Tony B/CA - right on, sandy, that's the goal of T.Net - bringing like-minded teachers together
judy/wv - I bought the SSRW this year. It is pretty good. I wouldn't want to depend on it to do the whole thing for me though. I have question with a few sound presentations.
Grace - SSRW is published by International Learning Systems, now in Florida. E-mail me sometime and I'll give you the address.
kat/kathleen - No one thing is the answer,
Boni - Gosh, I;m not sure who the publisher of Sing, Spell is, but I could find out and put it on the Board tomorrow.
kat/kathleen - Where all think alike no one thinks very much. ;-)
Mary K&1 - Hooked On Phonics got hit with a law suit ... it didn't work for everyone the way it claimed it would, now they don't claim that anymore
Tony B/CA - well, one opinion is that it is not good as a pull-out from class during language arts, as a few of my students who were involved always missed a good part of language arts and shared learning opportunities with peers...
sandy - especially after my brain was cooked today 110 in my room 92 outside
Boni - I don't do the whole Sing, Spell program - just mostly the songs and I like thier word lists
Peachy/K/NC - That's terrible, Sandy!
judy/wv - Yikes, Sandy. That is cruelty!
sandy - my poor kids were droppy
kat/kathleen - Tony, the big problem with pull-out..yes
kat/kathleen - also against the law, I think..sandy
Tony B/CA - ... another is that if it works, it has a place. Before or after school, perhaps, something...
Boni - Next year our entire school k-8 is going with SRA - not sure that I like this at all, but no choice! Any opinions or expereience out there?
kat/kathleen - SRA what? not the old progammed stuff
judy/wv - Boni, Do you mean SRA direct instruction programs?
Boni - Yes, yes, yes!
Tony B/CA - I did SRA as a student! I really enjoyed it, and have used it as a teacher as an enrichment activity during student choice learning times (grades 3-6)
sandy - I can remember doing SRA back in the olden days
Mary K&1 - I'm afraid so, kat
judy/wv - yes, what boni?
Boni - Direct instruction, programmed, specific dialogue and feed back!
judy/wv - SRA has many r eading programs. they even have open court, so when you say SRA that could mean a lot of things.
Tony B/CA - SRA was motivational, to me. I wanted to reach the end. It was like Judo, only easier. Personally satisfying. But not to everyone - I wouldn't depend on it. Just add-on to core...
Grace - I'm wondering if we're confusing two programs. There was SRA (Science Research Associates) and Sullivan Programmed Reading.
kat/kathleen - I think the content of SRA reading selections might be its redeeming value
kat/kathleen - judy, you are right, I'm sure SRA has a lot more than just that one program now
Boni - This is like the old Distar Program - they've just updated it a little bit
judy/wv - Boni, yes I have experience with it. I have seen kids make tremendous gains with it. Is it cutesy and stuff. NO. It cuts the fluff and really teaches the stuff!
Tony B/CA - yes, kat, I agree. Practice and motivation combined
sandy - sra to me was the small cards of reading and then answering questions.. going to different levels and finishing first
kat/kathleen - again, no one thing, and not the same thing for all
Tony B/CA - nice one judy. "cuts the fluff..."
judy/wv - Sandy this is different than what you are thinking of.
Tony B/CA - yeah, sandy, that's right
Tony B/CA - what judy?
Boni - Judy - did you use it with everyone or just the kids who where having real problems
judy/wv - Boni, I have used it with LD/MI/BD and regular.
J@Va - I believe one of the problems with p.awareness is that everyone learns differently and we as teachers are trying to find a program that ensures"one size fits all." IMPOSSIBLE!!!
Peachy/K/NC - Must go. Interesting topic. Enjoyed it! Good night all!!
kat/kathleen - java, I agree..
sandy - night Peachy
kat/kathleen - bye Peachy!!
Boni - My primary concern is that it seems so "unfun" that I worry that new readers won't learn to LOVE reading! What do you think, Judy!
judy/wv - Boni, for a regular classroom use I would like to see more enrichment activites, literature, etc.... BUT one can't argue with all the success it has had time after time after time.
sandy - Grace thank you VERY much for helping me out
Tony B/CA - Boni, you know, someone once gave me a quote "If you've told a child how a thousand times, and he still doesn't understand - then who's the slow learner?" don't know why that came up, but...
sandy - Tony that is something we all need to remember
Mary K&1 - I agree with Boni, the best program is a well stocked Library both in the Library room and in the classroom
Tony B/CA - Peachy, g'nite.
kat/kathleen - Right, I think we have to be careful about looking for a "program" to teach phonological awareness..we need to understand it, plan it, but not isolate it entirely into a lin=mited time period, IMHO
judy/wv - Oh yes, Boni, they will. You need to get good training in order to make the programs effect. If they just hand you the book there might be problems.
J@Va - great quote, Tony
kat/kathleen - Tony, that's a great one
Boni - They started this program in our middle school this year and Reading scores went up from 54 to 83 on year end CRT or whatever they use
judy/wv - Boni, the early program levels have phonological activites built in.
Mary K&1 - Boni, what does the test measure?
Boni - Well, you know how it is. I just worry!
judy/wv - May test scores mean a lot around here.
kat/kathleen - I missed Grace and Anne leaving..they were trememdous resources here tonight!
Tony B/CA - just returning the nomenclature observation...
Boni - I'm not sure. It was at the middle school, but its one of those nationally normed tests, same ones we give every year so that much improvemetn really made believers out of the school board!
Tony B/CA - sad fact, eh judy?
judy/wv - Try not to worry. My kids just fly through that stuff. It is a really time efficient program. YOu should have time to do a lot of extensions.
Tony B/CA - can I say my 2 cents on test scores...
sandy - yes glad I don't have to deal with them
kat/kathleen - I wish we could put all of the $$ spent on testing into birth to 3 programs..
Mary K&1 - Yes, Tony, please do
Boni - Thanks, Judy I appreciate the encouragement - what level do you teach?
judy/wv - YEs, Tony. The kids with the high scores get all the kudos, trips, prizes, (bribes) etc....
kat/kathleen - go ahead, tony
sandy - Missouri does that Parents as Teachers
Boni - Sandy - what is that?
judy/wv - Boni, I have taught all the levels at one time or another. right now I am teaching the Corrective Reading (probably the same program that your middle school used. I am an ld teacher.
sandy - I do it for our district.. help parents through the developmental stages and look for problems
Tony B/CA - just this: tests of normal distribution, like standardized achievement tests, by definition, place half of the students in a losing scenario from the very start. The earlier we test, the earlier we separate students and track their futures... We need m
Tony B/CA - last word, we need more opportunities for students to demonstrate their unique interests and abilities, and value that! sorry, off the soap box. I just get so frustrated with testing young kids -
Mary K&1 - Me Too!!!!
Tony B/CA - ok, now I get mocked...
kat/kathleen - Tony, I think most EC people agree with you, good point
Boni - Bye, all, got to grade papers. Enjoyed the good conversation! Night!
Mary K&1 - I think that we make basket cases out of kids ... we need to just let them develop at their own pace .. observe and keep them moving along
Tony B/CA - good point Mary! I agree fundamentally with that
Tony B/CA - Boni - give them all A
Mary K&1 - Positive feed back is the best tool
Tony B/CA - I have to go to work on my own studies now. I'll drop into the Lounge on the way out. Goodnight, and thank you kat, sandy, Mary, and canuk.
Mary K&1 - Bye Tony, I have to get to work also, don't want to, but must!
sandy - I think I need to go put it to rest bye everyone and thank you VERY much
kat/kathleen - We should start trying to do more pro-active posting on the chatboards..sharing ideas that work for us, not just responses to others' questions
