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Kathleen - Teachers.Net welcomes School Psychologist/columnist Beth Bruno, moderator for a discussion about Retention in Grade
Beth Bruno - Hi Kathleen and teachers
Beth Bruno - For the kindergarten teachers here, what criteria do you use to make retention decisions?
Sandy/K/MO - When I notice a high frustration level the parents and I conference
Joi - The K teacher at my school gives a point to each criteria and they must be at 75% to move on.
Kathleen - Beth, I consider parent support, developmental readiness, whether there appears to be an LD rather than maturation problem
Beth Bruno - Sandy, are you talking about academic frustration?
Sandy/K/MO - then we decide if it is something that could be helped by our resource teacher
Kathleen - I rarely retain in K
Sandy/K/MO - academic, peer , physical any that is prolonged or out of the norm
Joi - But she decides who to retain in January. I can see where you would start evaluating for retention in January, but to decide seems quite early.
Beth Bruno - Does your school psychologist identify LD at the kindergarten level?
Kathleen - I don't retain unless I am convinced that the child is just across the board developmentally young
Joi - Kathleen, I feel that way about PK.
Sandy/K/MO - in my 10 years, 1 withdrew in Oct, and retained 2
Djinn - We have been told that there is no retention in K. by the district , but the state just mandated no more social promotion. The criteria has not been set by the district.
Joi - We don't have a school psychologist.
Kathleen - We rarely have any diagnosis at K level
Sandy/K/MO - I have however convinced a couple of parents to wait a year..
Joi - A child who is behind in January is one that I work with more.
Beth Bruno - Joi, I think January is a time to start thinking about it, but too soon to make a decision. Too much can happen developmentally in a few months time.
Joi - Did that make sense?
Sandy/K/MO - we don't have a psychologist
Beth Bruno - For those of you without a school psychologist, who does the evaluations?
Djinn - Yes-January is when we start looking and documenting for retention, but parents are the ones who make the decision.
Joi - Beth, that is what I told her my feeling were on it, but she said that even if the child made it to 75% by the end of the year that they would still be behind their peers. That to me is comparing-not evaluating a child on his or her own merits.
SarahW/2/TX - the teacher/ parents make the decisions
Beth Bruno - Do any of your schools have transitional grades - like prefirst or presecond?
Joi - I would feel that the teacher was giving up on my child 1/2 way through the school year.
meeha/ece/tx - diagnosticians do the testing here
Kathleen - For many years I advocated for the extra-year programs, persuaded parents it was a good idea for their children. We were placing close to 25% or more of our population in extra year (D-K or T-1) programs. An informal longitudinal study showed that those retained kids were not succeeding down the line, high % were dropping out, especially those retained in K. Our district has abolished the extra year programs
Sandy/K/MO - we have a resource teacher and if we have concerns the principal does an eval. then if needed the resource teacher then if all goes farther the public school special ed
SarahW/2/TX - We have several multiage classes, but they are not necessarily intended for transitional
Kathleen - {that longitudinal study was backed by the majority of real research)
Joi - Kathleen, do you still have access to that study?
Djinn - We have no transitional classes
Djinn - Kathleen - does that mean that they failed because they were retained or they would have failed anyway?
Beth Bruno - There is little research support for the benefits of retention, but we all know of individual cases where it was an excellent decision - right?
meeha/ece/tx - transitional classes were done away with several years ago here.
Kathleen - Joi, no, it was very informal, in-district, I doubt that anyone still has it. But there is plenty of research out there
Kathleen - Yes, sometimes it is warranted and effective
Joi - We had a parent stop sending her son to school in January because the teacher made the decision to retain.
Ben - Am I to understand that all kids then are promoted to the next Grade then at the end of the year!
Kathleen - The problem is, once you accept retention in practice, the floodgates open and it becomes the cop out practice
Beth Bruno - In your experience, is there a stigma associated with retention at this level? either for the child or his or her parents?
RoseKs - I have one I retained this year that has really blossomed.
Kathleen - Djinn, kids were being retained for the wrong reasons..many had social or LD factors that of course they didn't just grow out of
brutus - How do your k programs run. We have all day every other day.
Djinn - Many times we promote because we know the child need help and support and our district will not identify students until the end of 1st or 2nd
Kathleen - In my experience, kids and parents almost always perceive retention as a form of failure
Sandy/K/MO - I would rather send my students to the resource teacher for some one on one. She is awesome and does great things for them
RoseKs - I think it really depends on how it's handled by the parents.
Beth Bruno - Rose, I evaluated a child who was a year younger in every way except his chronological age. His parents wanted him to repeat first grade; test results supported the decision; and he blossomed, too!
Sandy/K/MO - I don't see how every other day would work... we are all day, everyday
Joi - I had a child in PK last year that was not quite on the same level as his peers but not behind and 3 months into K he went from 12th in the class to 3rd. You never know when they will blossom.
meeha/ece/tx - Djinn -- same here, the district won't diagnose until the child is (essentially) failing grade one ... or grade 2!
Djinn - Joi - you are right! Sometimes they just click and away they go!
Kathleen - Our pre-k is half day, 2.5 times a week, kindergarten is half day every day
Sandy/K/MO - the child has to be a full year behind and you can't be that in kdg.
RoseKs - We go all day every day. I really like it. The kids get a lot more help.
Ben - Sorry Kathleen. I strongly disagree with promotion no matter what! Kids do not grow or mature at the same rate. I was one of them. I was unprepapred to deal with tasks in Grade 1 and repeated it. In Grade 2 i caught up and was promoted to Grade 4 having grasped all the concepts and material that I previous was unable to grasp!
SarahW/2/TX - we don't usually get resource help for kids until at least 2nd either
Sandy/K/MO - I held both of my boys back.. missed cut off and I am so happy I did. They weren't mature enough even though they had the "book smarts"
Beth Bruno - Kids are amazing, aren't they? They develop at such different rates! Sometimes I think it's better to put young children in non-graded settings. Or in combination classes of k-1 or 1-2.
RoseKs - I don't like retention myself, but have had occasions when it was necessary.
Kathleen - Ben, I didn't say I agree with promotion no matter what. I believe that in relatively rare cases it is an appropriate choice.
Beth Bruno - What is the principal's opinion about this? Or the superintendent's?
Djinn - I have a little one this year - turned 5 on Nov. 27. Very immature in all ways - still can't write his name - no small motor skills, etc. parent will not allow retention. This child needs more time.
Kathleen - Ben, you make a case for reasonable standards and developmentally appropriate programs
Sandy/K/MO - retention is a last resort.. but I think that each child is an individual case
meeha/ece/tx - Beth -- I think such settings as that (ungraded or multi-aged) would be a more practical answer to the problem -- the change will come hard in most areas, though
Kathleen - Yes, multi-age groupings, looping are possible solutions
Ben - The problem with liking or not liking retention is simply this. We put a label on it as failure! If the child isn't ready why is it we are in such a hurry to push him or her on!
RoseKs - Beth, I like the sound of that! How do we get the schools to do it though.
Joi - Sandy, that is why I am concerned about our K teacher comparing the children and not evaluating them as individuals.
Djinn - Ben - sad isn't it. Many times it is the parent who is pushing the child. Many of my parents are against retention in Kinder because they don't want to pay the sitter anymore.
meeha/ece/tx - it is a gift to the child... the gift of time (to grow and to become!) there is no failure in that.
Beth Bruno - I taught in an ungraded public school. It had a primary groups, intermediate groups and advanced groups which corresponded roughly to k-2, 3-4, and 5-6. It was a wonderful set-up.
Kathleen - But I believe that when we start doing more birth to three intervention, we will have less need for retention, remediation, spec ed
meeha/ece/tx - Beth ... THAT is where I want to teach!
Sandy/K/MO - Joi, I don't blame you.. the kids surprise me all the time.. things I think one won't get he leads the class :-)
Kathleen - I think the greatest gift to the child is a program that meets his or her individual needs (especially at Early Childhood level this should be a given)
Beth Bruno - The more we can individualize programs, even within fairly large groups, the better our children will progress.
SarahW/2/TX - We keep hearing that if we have kids who do not pass our state test in third grade they will not pass--so do we retain earlier in the hopes that we can give them some time so they will passt he test, or do we wait for them to fail 3rd grade?
Sandy/K/MO - I am lucky, if after testing for the new kdg. and we don't feel that the child is ready we can recommend waitng till next year.. give that gift especially to a young one
Ben - Kathleen where do the parents fit in in a program that starts at birth to age 3?
Addie k/mo - kat, i totally agree, but what about the situation that certain things are expected at the next grade level? do you send the child on when he/she is immature and unable to meet those expectations?
RoseKs - I would enjoy teaching there!
Kathleen - If kids are going to be tested en masse, wouldn't it be better to offer remediation, smaller class, instead of retention?
Sandy/K/MO - Ben, Missouri has Parents as Teachers It is a birth through five year program
Beth Bruno - Sarah, I think retention decisions need to be made in the early years so children can get a good foundation in very basic learning and academic and social skills before having to meet more intensive academic requirements in the later grades.
Djinn - I wish we had a screening program - but we do not test or screen - if they have the correct birthdate they are in
Joi - I have a girl in my class who turned 4 on Sept. 1st. I was worried about her keeping up but she is in the top 25% of the class. They will fool you sometimes.
Kathleen - Ben, educating parents to "teach" their children
Addie k/mo - kat, do you mean prior to k, if kids test low then they are put into smaller groups to help them catch up? or are you speaking of transitional first?
Ben - Are all parents a part of this program, Sandy!
SarahW/2/TX - Beth-- you make a good point.
Beth Bruno - Parent education is an important topic here. Do your schools offer it?
Ben - Sounds like a needed step Kathleen! Hope it continues in other grades!
Addie k/mo - joi, age isn't always everything....young ones can do well, but many times they tend to be the less mature kids
Kathleen - Addie, I know it's hard to do, but I think if we keep holding kids back because the next grade (one) is too difficult, the result is that the curriculum becomes even more unreasonable because they are not seeing a true grouping or span of needs. So we have to work within the system to change it
RoseKs - Sarah, I think the earlier you retain , the better for the child.
Sandy/K/MO - it is free to any parent in the state... just call school dist you are in - its great we give parents developmental info ... screen for hearing, vision
Addie k/mo - well, i agree that the curriculum has definitely been pushed down and has created some of these problems
Joi - Kathleen, I never thought of it that way. There are many "levels" in each grade and we should not just send the "honor" students on.
Kathleen - Addie, I'm not in favor of retention in K except in rare cases. I meant that after grade one if a child is failing, then programs and setting tailored to help in the next year (gr 2) would be more beneficial than repeating without extra help
Addie k/mo - it makes sense to me that if retention is needed it should be early so that the kids arent as "identified" with a group of peers
Beth Bruno - When I wrote an article about retention I found an excellent article about it. The address is: http://www.teachermag.org/ew/vol-17/03mccoy.h17
Kathleen - Parent Ed, we had an Even Start program for a few years, then the grant ran out I guess and it dissolved
Addie k/mo - thanks, beth, bookmarked the article
Kathleen - HOlding K kids back because gr 1 is too hard just perpetuates the problem
Ben - Do all parents or are all parents expecte dto be involved in this program Kathleen!
Kathleen - But retaining early has its hazards because it is so difficult to determine whether the child will "blossom"
brutus - I teach sp.ed. (k-3). I have a 1st grader who will be 9.
Djinn - I agree Kathleen - more interventions are needed in every grade level. I fear that Kindergarten is overlooked by many districts.
Beth Bruno - If you recommend retention and the parent is against it, what do you do?
Djinn - Beth - it's our policy to promote if the parent wishes
Kathleen - Ben, birth to three programs are still new and developing..I'm not involved with one, but I agree with those who believe that the early intervention is one big answer to the problem
Kathleen - If the parent won't agree, the child goes on
Addie k/mo - brutus, in an article i read, the student you describe should never have been held back. if the child needs special services, then retention doesnt help. if the child needs a year to grow up, then it does. the article attributed the poor track record of retention to the fact that the "wrong" kids are retained
Beth Bruno - Brutus, Does your 9 year old first grader spend any of his time with age-mates?
RoseKs - The parent always has the final say in our district. We simply show documentation for our recommendation.
Ben - But are all parents expected to be involved and a part of the program! Is it a requirement?
Sandy/K/MO - if parents don't agree the principal writes a letter with our recommendations and they have to sign that they don't accept
Addie k/mo - yes, here if parents do not agree the student is promoted to the next grade
Djinn - One problem we have - we share our speech therapist and counselor with another school - Kinder suffers because our schools are k-8 .
Kathleen - Ben, I don't think that anywhere there is a requirement that the parent participate, we can't do that legally
Addie k/mo - djinn, it is so frustrating that people can't see that early intervention prevents later problems. especially speech! the little ones are the most likely to need speech/language therapy
Ben - Personally it should be! Probably too idealistic and unattainable!
Beth Bruno - It's true that we can't require parents to participate - but we can make it easier for them to do so - even if we put a classroom parent volunteer program in place to do it. Do some of you educate parents that way?
Kathleen - Yes, we hope that modeling in the classroom will have impact upon the parents' practices in the home, but we have no structured program for drawing in the parents who most need it
Djinn - Beth - i have done everything but stand on my head to get parents in my classroom. Not one volunteer this year. We don't have aides in K. so how are we going to give those little guys what they need?
Ben - Yes our school their are parents always involved in the JK and K programs and Parent Volunteers are always in the school acting a wide variety of roles throughout!
brutus - No. I argue that she either needs to be placed in a functional program or moved on to the class her same age peers are in. She is not picking up anything in 1st. I really want a functional curriculum placement for her. It would be most beneficial because of all her needs.
Beth Bruno - As a school psychologist, I spend lots of time in K and first grade classrooms - well before any referral is made for testing. Early intervention and prevention are definitely very important.
Sandy/K/MO - I pick days that most parents have off work and plan something in the classroom and invite them to help
Addie k/mo - it sounds like it, brutus, she needs to be where she can learn skills for life, instead of spending years trying to learn letters and sounds
Kathleen - I'm not as worried as I used to be about parent participation IN the classroom..I foster involvement in the home by sending home lots of activities, newsletter, projects, articles for parents. Of course, that doesn't reach the illiterate parents :-/
Beth Bruno - Djinn. That's a tough one. Do all the parents work, so are unavailable?
Addie k/mo - i plan special events too, parent seem to like to come on those days
Sandy/K/MO - brutus.. doesn't she have an "iep"
Djinn - I have sent home monthly calensars and events. Parents are told to drop in and help any time. No takers!
Sandy/K/MO - I have the kids write the invitations.. then they bug their parents
Kathleen - Programs like Reading Recovery appear expensive, but an extra year is more expensive
brutus - Yes. I am the sp. ed. teacher. But I only see her an hour a day. The rest of the time she is getting nothing in the reg. classroom.
Addie k/mo - i try sending "fun homework" home like projects for parents and children to complete together and then show them at school. also do a weekly newsletter
Djinn - Beth - most of my Moms are stay at homes with younger children. I tell them that the youngers are welcome on party days and special events. Still not interested.
Sandy/K/MO - I have 2 highschool teachers for Mom's this year they spent the day and went home wiped out shaking their heads :-)
Kathleen - Djinn, I've found that I have to be specific, "I need someone for this hour on ---day" for a specific task
Beth Bruno - In one of my classes for second graders, I set aside Wednesday afternoons as parent afternoons. That's when we did plays or worked on projects with parental help. Parents liked the fact that Wednesday afternoon was a standing invitation for them to part
Joi - Kathleen, how widely used is Reading Recovery? Do you know?
Beth Bruno - for them to participate.
Kathleen - Joi, I'm not sure nationally how widely it is used...Mary can you tell us?
Djinn - Kathleen - I tried that at the beginning of the year. Then in january I sent a calendar out for Jan and Feb. with daily times etc. Asked parents to just fill in the dates they could come and return. No help
Beth Bruno - I like all the ways you involve parents at home when they can't come in. I'll bet the children like that, too.
Mary - I don't know exactly how many schools have it, but there are 500 training sites in the US and Canada. There are 20 States that have University Regional Training Centers that train the people who teach the teachers. Read more about it at the Reading Recovery site.
Kathleen - Yes, children like it and the parent feels involved, less threatened by school and school work. Of course the challenge is different in the upper grades
Addie k/mo - the only problem is when the kids' parents cant/wont help and the child doesnt bring anything back....i try to encourage them that "maybe next time", but i dont let them do it at school because i think they need to learn to be responsible....
Beth Bruno - Are there teachers here from the upper grades? What is your opinion on this subject?
Sandy/K/MO - I know that there are several school dist. in Mo that have RR but not all
KB - I teach 5th grade and have a problem with returning school work
Djinn - We have RR in our district - I have asked for training and hope to be trained this summer
Addie k/mo - the newsletter has been very successful, especially with the very concerned parents...makes them feel like they know exactly what is going on! since i got my dig cam i add classroom photos and the kids cant wait to take them home!
Beth Bruno - Do you think there would be strong interest in doing a focussed chat about reading programs?
Addie k/mo - we dont have RR
Kathleen - Addie, I think that is a wonderful tool to increase parental involvement
Addie k/mo - i think there would be
KB - I would be interested since we are rewriting our reading curriculum this year
Sandy/K/MO - I would like that, reading discussions
Kathleen - Beth, reading topics always draw a crowd here :-)
Djinn - Addie - I am so jealous! My newletter might get more attention with pictures!
brutus - Yes to reading chat
Addie k/mo - i know what is going on at our school reading-wise, but would like to know what is going on across the country
Djinn - Yes - Reading!
Beth Bruno - I did a class newsletter (at the second grade level). Parents and students loved it. By the end of the year the students were doing all the writing, puzzles, cartoons, etc.
Praline/3rd/LA - I send home a homework syllabus every week with homework assignments and scheduled tests. Most do the homework..around 80%.
Addie k/mo - the photos make all the difference in the kids motivation to take them home! i have only done the photos for two years and you wouldnt believe the difference
Joi - Our school is beginning the Accelerated Reader program and we hope that if reading grades go up that it will effect all areas and retentions will go down.
Djinn - I did this last year - afraid this goup might not do as well. you've given me incentive to Go For It!
Deb Ps/IA - We are involved with Project Read - it is for a broarder age range of students pk-adult and less expensive then RR
Djinn - Oops thats for Ben who has given me an idea.!
Kathleen - Does anyone believe that retention in the upper grades is more acceptable than at EC level?
Praline/3rd/LA - No Kathleen
Addie k/mo - we have AR, most of the primary grades use a program called "metra" and a few use a basal series
Mary - Kathleen, NO!
bluebird - Kathleen, Pat Cunningham doesn't think that retention is the answer.
Beth Bruno - I think retention is tougher on a child's self-esteem when he or she is in upper elementary or higher grades than it is at the kindergarten, first grade level.
Addie k/mo - the kids are really excited to see themselves (especially) and the other kids
Sandy/K/MO - it isn't in our school, 4th grade tried to but parents switched schools
Praline/3rd/LA - We just got AR last month. My kids love it. They are really reading ..or trying to..
Djinn - Our district has come up with their own Program called Good First Teaching - I have come up with my own version called Good TEaching LOL
Kathleen - bluebird, I like Pat Cunningham and her multilevel instructional approach, much of it is based upon principals of Reading Recovery, right Mary??
Mary - Kathleen, I think so, but I never got an answer on that
Beth Bruno - Do most of you have computers and Internet access in your classrooms?
Addie k/mo - kindergarten uses big books and teacher chosen methods to teach letters and sounds
Kathleen - Old computers, no Internet
Ben - Retention i the later grades is not any more acceptable in my opinion Kathleen. However, I have done it several times and it has in those cases benefit most of those that were retained. Retention to be effective must be done early enough to overcome the weaknesses and all proper progress to continue from then on. Otherwise it is a stigma!
KB - I have one computer with access available in my room
Joi - We have access to the internet only in the computer lab.
Djinn - Kathleen - I am using her in my classroom - thus the Good Teaching!
bluebird - Our school uses the 4 Block model schoolwide. Our second grade scores went up more than 25% last year.
Sandy/K/MO - we have 1 computer on-line in lab
Praline/3rd/LA - Beth, I have 1 computer in my class ..no internet and hardly any software except what I bought.
bluebird - It is not just a Reading Recovery approach, but is very compatabile.
brutus - I have 4 computers in my room with one on-line.
Deb Ps/IA - We have internet all through the school in the classrooms and in the labs
Djinn - we have an apple 2-E for our class 8>(
Beth Bruno - Many of you are saying that sometimes you get involved in special projects that provide a big boost for some of your slower students. Tha's exciting. I guess we're always trying to find ways to tap their curiosity and excitement about learning.
bluebird - Our kindergartens use the Building Blocks of Pat Cunningham. Very effective and fits ouir state standards well.
Sandy/K/MO - software kdg & first have is what I bought or got with bonus points or grant
Addie k/mo - i have two kids in my class this year that i retained last year and they are both doing beautifully. they have grown so much and they seem much more confident than last year. they are very happy with class, as are their parents. i had never done this before, so had my doubts that repeated activities would be a problem, but it seems to be comforting that they really know what is going on
Trish - We use Open Court at our school to teach reading in the primary grades. Anyone here ever used it?
Addie k/mo - i have internet access in my room, as do all 3rd, 4th, and 5th grades, plus 6 in the library and a lab with 30 all on line
Joi - Trish, I have heard of it, but not in my school.
Kathleen - Trish, no I haven't used Open Court.
Beth Bruno - Sometimes computers and the Internet can provide that burst of excitement for one or more children who are at a slowpoint in development.
bluebird - We would not choose Open Court, it would not fit our literacy model.
Djinn - bluebird- fly to Ca. and drop a little happiness on our State! Advocating 4 blocks on deaf ears in my district.
Deb Ps/IA - Project Read website adress http://www.projectread.com
Addie k/mo - it is awesome! first year for all this. last year we had it in the library...they are adding each year....the rest of k through 2nd should have it next year
Sandy/K/MO - my two that are having alphabet prob. love the computer.. has really helped
Deb Ps/IA - Trish neighboring district just adopted that program mixed opinions so far on Open Court
bluebird - WE just got internet in our clasrooms. Djinn, I wish I could come. My husband has a daughter in Hayfork.
Djinn - Addie - i love reading about what your class is doing on your website!
Beth Bruno - I've just begun hearing about 4 blocks recently. Has it been around for a long time?
Trish - Unless a child has a solid language rich background it isn't effective. Teaching inner city children this particular method is like talking to a wall. Any one that has used it have any suggestions? State requires use.
Kathleen - 4-Blocks, relatively new, seems to be catching on like wildfire
Addie k/mo - trish, can you supplement with some big books and themes especially focused on language development?
Deb Ps/IA - My preschoolers have two - 30 minute time schedules in the lab for us to work on software (I purchased). We looked up Jan Brett's page because we just read the story the mitten and printed out the coloring pages and Book marks from the Mitten!
Djinn - Beth - do you have any specific criteria for retention in K?
Praline/3rd/LA - We have a computer lab but mostly Josten skills.
Deb Ps/IA - We offer ps for 4 yr olds and pre-k for 5 yr olds who are not ready for all day kindergarten
bluebird - Our academic magnet elementary here uses the Open Court series.
Trish - Beth, I teach first grade at a school where the principal does not believe in retention. However, the state holds the teachers accountable for skills mastered or in some cases not mastered at the years end. Any suggestions on how to convince principal retention is sometimes a necessary "evil?"
Addie k/mo - we go to the lab once a week for 50 minutes...we have a computer teacher, but we stay with the class too.
Beth Bruno - There are many considerations as you know. I like to think in terms of developmental age, rather than chronological. That helps with the decision-making process. I also like to involve parents as much as possible, so we're together on whatever decision
Trish - bluebird, is it successful there?
Sandy/K/MO - I am the computer teacher for my kids... we go daily for 45 min
Beth Bruno - Principals who make rigid rules drive me nuts!
Trish - Addie k, I supplement like you wouldn't believe!
bluebird - Our school district has just implemented a promotion policy that is tied into national test scores. It is crazy.
Addie k/mo - trish, it would be hard though, because you are having to make up for lost time
Addie k/mo - so what if the parents dont agree, bluebird?
Trish - Beth, this school and IAT committee seem to be concerned only with the NUMBERS and not with the best interest of the child. Long hard day today, very frustrated!
Kathleen - with President Clinton calling for an end to Social Promotion in his 1998 and 1999 State of the Union addresses, what do you see happening in schools as a result?
Deb Ps/IA - We use the STEPS, checklists and what the parents would like their preschooler to be in next year. I rarely recommend Pre-K just because I think they should take these preschoolers where they are when they come in the fall and go from there
Beth Bruno - We teach individuals, even though we teach them in groups. We need to be able to make judgment calls.
Addie k/mo - it will take a long time before it filters down to sw missouri :-)
Joi - Don't you think that as a lay person, he thinks he is doing the right thing? (Clinton)
bluebird - Trish, everything is succesful in the academic magnet. You have to have a certain test score and maintain a score to be there.
Sandy/K/MO - or central mo either :-)
Trish - curriculum here for kinders VERY social, not a real academic focus. First grade is that much tougher for these babies because they haven't got a clue what to expect!
Addie k/mo - LOL, bluebird! that is why it is called the academic magnet!
Kathleen - Yes, I do believe that lay people who call for an end to social promotion believe it is the best thing, but they don't understand or look at what has to happen as a result
Trish - bluebird, I imagine the children come from broad experience bases, supportive parents, language rich environments, books they own..... Let me go on and on!
bluebird - Unfortunatly, a lot of folks in decision making seats think they are doing the right thing, but kids are the ones to get hurt.
Addie k/mo - trish, why is there such a gap between those grades. i would classify our k's as more academic than social and first grade is still a big step
Beth Bruno - Also we have children moving in from other countries and other states. We have to make decisions based on the needs of individual children and their families.
Deb Ps/IA - Clinton made a very politically correct statement. That's what people want to hear but not necessarily what will happen.
Trish - Beth, can you call my principal? LOL
Kathleen - Trish, then first grade has some work to do to be more appropriate
Addie k/mo - yeah, i agree, you cant just have "x" number of hoops to jump through and you get to go to the next grade....it has to be looked at individually
bluebird - You got it Trish! Have mercy.
Beth Bruno - Trish, he or she probably wouldn't want to hear from me! :-)
Kathleen - At ec level it is almost necessary that it is an intuitive process
bluebird - How is school governance handled with you folks who are complaining so about your principals?
Deb Ps/IA - bluebird - your school probably doesn't have low socioeconomic families, one parent families, drug/alcohol babies, abusive situations or a meth lab down the block
Addie k/mo - well, gotta go, good talk, beth thanks for being here and leading us!
Trish - dictatorship mean anything?!! LOL
Deb Ps/IA - trish - LOL!
Trish - Deb, do we teach in the same neighborhood?
Beth Bruno - Before we wrap up. If you have suggestions for chat topics or articles about certain topics, let me know! My email address is: bbruno@snet.net
Djinn - Bethe - this has been very informative! Thank you so much for hosting this chat. Looking forward to many more!8>)
Beth Bruno - My personal homepage URL is:http://pages.cthome.net/insights
Kathleen - Visit our new "Schoolhouse Views" feature by Beth Bruno at http://www.teachers.net/FAQ/schoolhouse/bruno_index.html
