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Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net.
Mary/PA - Tonight's topic is preparing for discontinuing a child's program.
Mary/PA - Hi tyylee
tyylee - Good evening. How are your children doing, any ready for discontinuing?
Mary/PA - Have you folks been discontinuing kids?
Mary/PA - lately, that is...
tyylee - I have lost three of my first four children so only one is at twenty weeks. She had a slow start but is now making progress so I will probably hold on to her as long as possible. I have one at 18 weeks who is getting close and will probably be ready in about three weeks.
Mary/PA - Welcome, Patty, and msuwife
Mary/PA - What do you do to prepare them for discontinuing?
Mary/PA - Hi didi
didi(aus) - What's today's topic
Mary/PA - Thanks for the email message. I learned a lot from it.
didi(aus) - Hi Mary Just dropping in for a short while.
Mary/PA - Tonight's topic is preparing for discontinuing a child's program.
msuwife - I have discontinued one child, but I have two that will probably exit in the next few weeks.
Patty - Any suggestions for classroom transfer. My kids who I think are close to discontinuing aren't showing the same use of strategies in the classroom.
Mary/PA - This is your first day with the kids?
Mary/PA - Good going msu!
tyylee - I see a need to show them how to apply their skills to their classroom readers and seat work. I will spend the last week doing things like that. Right now I am trying to get them to be as independent with their processing as possible before I step in and help.
msuwife - Does anyone limit book introductions towards the end to make them more independent and ready for the testing.
didi(aus) - Do you draw back in the final lessons giving less support saying do it like you would in class without me particularly in writing expecting longer more independent writing?
didi(aus) - One suggestion is to go into class and observe them in the class situation near the end.
Mary/PA - msuwife, I usually do.
Patty - I do limit book introductions but I haven't yet spent time in the classroom during guided reading, etc. My problem is finding the time to get into the classroom.
Mary/PA - I think that's part of being independent...to be able to tackle a book without help
msuwife - Where do your students go who don't discontinue?
didi(aus) - You would have to replace a RR lesson with classroom time wouldn't you?
msuwife - I agree Mary. I think what I see with my students who don't discontinue is that they haven't reached that level of independence.
Mary/PA - Mine don't go to the regular Title 1 teacher
Mary/PA - Mine do go....that should say
msuwife - Are they tested for special ed?
didi(aus) - If ours aren't going to discontinue successfully they are referred for learning support.
tyylee - We also teach Literacy groups for all first graders using the same RR strategies and prompts only with small groups. Both children who discontinue and those who exit receive this small group instruction that continues to address their needs.
msuwife - That is great Tyylee. Do all students who discontinue receive the literacy groups?
Patty - Who teaches the literacy groups?? Classroom teachers or you?
Mary/PA - We are very tight with referring for sp.ed. It may take another year or two before they get referred
msuwife - Our school is in the second year of RR so we are still trying to work out what happens as children complete or exit the program.
tyylee - All first and second grade students in our school are involved in Literacy Groups. We also do the Literacy group model during summer school.
msuwife - Who is eligible for summer school?
msuwife - Mary, do children ever get referred for special ed before RR?
msuwife - AT our school literacy groups are taught in the afternoons by the RR teachers.
Mary/PA - All the students who have a Title 1 ID number are eligible for summer school
didi(aus) - How many weeks do you have left in your school year for the 2nd round kids?
tyylee - Literacy groups are taught by a team of people consisting of Title 1 teachers, Title 1 Instructional Assistants, Classroom teachers, Special Education Teachers, Special Educations Instructional Assistants, any student teachers at those grade levels and anyone else we can find that are available.
Mary/PA - That's at our school
msuwife - For our students who attended intersession this is there 22nd week. We are a year round school.
msuwife - we have 14 weeks left for our second round students...not enough.
Mary/PA - ms, there are a very few children who get referred for sp. services before first grade. They are the really obvious ones.
tyylee - My second round students will only get 12-16 weeks depending on when they start since I had several move and picked up new students later. We are trying something new this year, a two week summer school program in June for those students who didn't complete their program but are very close to discontinuing.
msuwife - Mary, that is the same for our school, which I think is good.
msuwife - Tyylee, will all RR teachers participate in the summer school.
tyylee - The two week program will be one half hour RR lesson and one half hour Lit. group with only two students in a group.
didi(aus) - I must away and start OS testing see you next time.
Mary/PA - Thanks for coming didi
tyylee - Summer teaching is optional. We will probably all do the two week program as it will only be an hour a day for two weeks. We don't offer RR during the regular summer school in July which is 4-5 weeks long. Instruction during that time is in Lit. Groups.
Patty - At what level are you all discontinuing during this time of year?
Mary/PA - What is your procedure for getting ready for discontinuing? What does your TL require of you?
msuwife - Our teacher leader says they need to be a 12 at the end of Jan.
Mary/PA - Patty, 10 or 12 for me....that's higher than the average, which is 7 - 9 in my building
tyylee - We have been told this year that we should de-emphasize the 'level' and concentrate on seeing if the children have the strategies in place to make them successful. Mary Fried gave an excellent talk at last year
tyylee - year's RR national Conference on this topic.
Patty - We also will discontinue at TL12 right now but there are some in our area who don't feel this is high enough.
Mary/PA - We have to test for the average. We ask the regular teachers to give us the names of 6 average kids on their rooms and then we test 3 of them.
msuwife - I wish we would also de-emphasize levels. I think what is important is that the strategies are in place and the students can be independent in implementing those.
tyylee - In the past we were told at least a level 12 by the end of Jan.
Patty - I agree with you tyylee that the self extending system is what is important and that the TL level should be de-emphasized.
msuwife - did an average band of our first graders at the beginning of December and that was a 7/8. Our TL said that they needed to be at a 10 before they could get out at Christmas.
Mary/PA - We are not to look at the levels as much as we do the strategies and phrasing and fluency along with what the average level of reading that is being done in the reg. classroom
tyylee - Those middle level children in the classroom will be our second round children this year! Our class numbers are unusually low this year so we will reach nearly two thirds of the class by the end of the year.
msuwife - How is fluency judged when testing for discontinuation?
Patty - What would you say if the classroom average was TL16-20? Would you keep kids until they reach those averages?
Mary/PA - We have to make a tape of our children reading a familiar book and send it to our TL two weeks before we want to discontinue a child. The TL will comment on their fluency. If it's not good enough we are told to work on it more before proceeding
msuwife - Would you go on classroom averages or grade level averages?
msuwife - So fluency is determined on familiar read?
tyylee - msuwife, I have a problem with that also. Especially when deciding what level they are discontinuing at. In the past I have had children who are reading over the 90% rate on some books but are very slow and labored and have little comprehension of what they have read. If we go strictly on the 90% I think it gives us a false picture of what the child can do.
Mary/PA - Patty, I guess you would have to. The goal is to get the kids to average. That's tough when the ave. is so high! If that at this time of the year?
Mary/PA - WE are told to go on classroom averages
msuwife - Tyylee, those percentages can be very deceiving. If I give a very supportive book walk, the percentage will probably be higher.
Mary/PA - That's why we test the average kids in the classrooms from which the RR kids are coming
msuwife - How many first grades do you have in your school?
Mary/PA - We have around 70 this year
Patty - The average of our first grade population is high so unfortunately our RR kids who are processing well at TL 12-14 still look low. I guess it's not such a bad problem to have but it's still there. I like the idea of testing for classroom averages but our first graders are looked at on a whole and our school uses a SWITCH program for guided reading.
msuwife - in December when we did an average band of first grades, I think there was a 9 level difference between the highest and lowest class.
msuwife - Mary, 70 students?
Mary/PA - Patty, do you pull a few average children form each classroom to test them with the RR material?
Mary/PA - ms, yes, in my building
tyylee - We only have 30 children in first grade and room for 10 RR children each round. When you take out the children repeating first grade and those identifies Sp. Ed. , wow. It is unusual for us to have less than fifty in first grade.
Patty - Mary, do you mean right now? No we don't . But I like the idea,.
Mary/PA - Patty, that would give you a better idea of how the levels stack up
Mary/PA - Our TL requires us to do this
Patty - Mary, I'll definitely bring this up with our classroom teachers.
Mary/PA - We have to have another RRT give the entire end of program test to our kids...back in the old days we only had to have another test just the text and dictation, what do you folks do?
tyylee - Need to go, good night everyone.
Mary/PA - Thanks for coming, tyylee
msuwife - We have someone give TRL and then we administer the remaining parts of OS.
tyylee - Oh, I just thought of something I wanted to say. In our building we trade RR children at least once or twice in the last weeks before testing. We take the other RR teacher's children and do the planned lesson with them. The teachers then meet and discuss the strengths and weaknesses we observed. It also helps the children become familiar with the person who will later do the testing. We have done this for a couple of years and have found it helpful.
Mary/PA - msu, that's how we used to do it, but now we have to have someone else administer the whole survey
msuwife - I like that idea Tyylee, thanks for sharing.
Mary/PA - tyylee, I think that's a very good idea. I wish I could do that, but I'm the only RRT in my building
msuwife - When is that done?
tyylee - We did our first trade this week and will probably do it again once a week until we test. We do it during the regular RR time since we are both doing Rr children at the same time. The children really love to show off their reading for the other teacher!!
msuwife - I would love to have another teacher's insight.
Mary/PA - I have to take the dog out, I'll be back in a bit.
msuwife - Tyylee, after the lesson is taught who writes the next day's lesson plan? Is it done together?
tyylee - I find it very helpful to get the other person's insights in these last weeks before testing. Others sometimes see things we have missed and the children need to see that they are expected to use their strategies no matter who is listening to them read. The child's regular teacher makes all the plans, both for the switch day and after consulting with the other person, the lesson for the next day.
June - How receptive are most TLs to ideas tried in other places?
tyylee - My teacher leader is teaching in my building this year and observed us trading children. She thought it was a good idea and asked to be included the next time we did it.
June - The exchange sounds good to me, but I'm not sure our TL would go for it.
Mary/PA - June, that's a hard one to answer, I only know what my TL wants, but she is always asking us for any suggestions, so I would imagine that she's very open to new ideas.
tyylee - The Teacher Leaders have to abide with what comes from their state level trainers so they cannot always try new things.
June - Thanks, I guess diplomacy, tact, and cooperation are keys. I wish she would join the meetings for such a variety of great ideas.
msuwife - Thanks for the idea. I don't know if that would be possible or not at our school. We have not discussed that with our TL
Mary/PA - Do you do many colleague visits?
tyylee - Good night, again.
Mary/PA - Do you have other RRTs come and observe you working with a child who is not making good progress?
mel - hi everyone
Mary/PA - Hi mel
June - Not enough, time and scheduling seem to be a problem. We usually confer informally.
mel - hi mary
mel - what's the chat in here tonight
msuwife - We don't observe each other...but we do ask for many suggestions from each other.
mel - what does everyone teach here?
Mary/PA - mel, Reading Recovery
mel - what grade level
Mary/PA - We are required to have colleague visits and to call others to come observe us with a child we are having difficulty with
June - Mary, have you ever been or do you aspire to be a TL? You give such helpful advice.
Mary/PA - mel, first grade
msuwife - That is a good idea. How do you do that being the only RR teacher in your school?
msuwife - I agree June, Mary is very helpful.
Mary/PA - June, not me, I don't want that job! I hate paper work!
Mary/PA - I like doing our records at the online site, I think it helps with the kind of things I hate doing. Do you folks use that online site for entering your records?
Mary/PA - We don't have to do those bubble sheets any more
msuwife - yes, we do use the online record keeping.
msuwife - I started teaching RR after bubble sheets, but I heard they were a nightmare!
Mary/PA - msu, how do you like it?
Mary/PA - Hello teach
Mary/PA - We're finishing up our Reading Recovery meeting
June - We also use online records. I can't imagine what it must have been like bubbling. I've heard horror stories. I like the immediate feedback online.
msuwife - I don't know any different, but the online system seems easy.
msuwife - Yes, the immediate feedback is nice.
Mary/PA - I want to thank you all for coming this evening, I have to do now. I hope to see you all next time, bring a fellow RRT with you to the next meeting.
msuwife - Thanks Mary.
