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Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net.
alison - Do we have a topic tonight?
Mary/PA - Tonight's topic is working with the regular classroom teachers.
Mary/PA - How or what do you do to help the regular classroom teacher support your efforts with your RR kids?
Mary/PA - If you don't like this topic or have other concerns, we can discuss them as well. Don't want to limit anyone.
Gigi/MO - Mary--Before I start, I have to tell you what happened since we last met!! Don't know if you remember my dilemma at that time or not, but I was trying to decide what child to take next!?!
Gigi/MO - I was testing several on level 14 and it still WASN'T hard for them!! I had it ALL worked out with my TL to test the lowest 2 level 14's on CAP and email her the results?!? The NEXT day I tested a new little girl that moved in from Arkansas AND she was on a level B!! Can you believe it?? Guess I was bragging TOO early!! HAHA!!
Mary/PA - Now you have your work cut out for you!
Mary/PA - I had one test at level B as well
Mary/PA - 3 at level 3 and one at level 4...there are several at level 5, but I can't get to them right now. I quit at level 5, no point in continuing, I had tested twice as many as I had opening for.
Mary/PA - Reading Recovery tests the children with a set of test items we call the Observational Survey
Gigi/MO - She is up on a level 1 now!! I knew you said that you had one on a level B also and I was telling some people at my school THAT and look what happened!! ONE moved into our school!! OK--enough about that!! Now for the subject at hand!!
~克ude坍 - ok, I am not too familiar with reading recovery...but interested. I am running a literacy program (high school) and was hoping to find some good ideas as well as an easy but valid assessment
Mary/PA - We test them for their test reading level using leveled texts and the running record.
Mary/PA - We test them for sight word recognition. using word lists.
June - I too am not very familiar with reading recovery but am teaching LD at the middle school level
~克ude坍 - Lists such as Dolch?
Mary/PA - We test their knowledge about Concepts of Print using a CAP test developed by Marie Clay
Mary/PA - No, not that extensive - Our kids are struggling first graders. Just short lists of high utility words
~克ude坍 - some of the kids I am working with only have knowledge of the alphabet, and maybe can spell their names. I have found that phonics with some 16 y/os does not work...opinions?
Mary/PA - We test their writing vocabulary by having them write as many words as they are able in 10 mins.
Gigi/MO - Mary--Wasn't the entire Obs. Survey developed by Marie Clay after lots and lots of research?? over 20 years!!
Mary/PA - And we test their sound to letter knowledge by giving them a dictation that they have to write as best as they are able.
~克ude坍 - does spelling count?
Mary/PA - We then analyze how they do these
~克ude坍 - how does one go about being trained as a rr teacher?
Gigi/MO - Jude--My opinion on phonics is it works SOMETIMES but people need to know sounds PLUS other ways to figure out words. Phonics sometimes only works if you know how to use it!!
Mary/PA - Gigi, yes, but I'm trying to make a bit more easy to understand....don't want to talk RR language, Jude may not understand
~克ude坍 - Gigi... i really believe some of my kids have no concepts of phonics b/c they do not or cannot enunciate the words
Mary/PA - It's a year long training like taking two graduate level classes back to back and teaching kids as we learn. We then have to continue this learning for as long as we are RR teachers by going to updating classes about once a month for as long as we teach RR
Gigi/MO - Mary--That's great!! I just wanted them to know it was developed by her after much research with children!!
Mary/PA - Yes, she did lots of observing the habits of good readers.
Mary/PA - And writers
Mary/PA - Phonics is just one small portion of reading. There are many other things that a reader must be thinking about while reading
~克ude坍 - please expand Mary....
Mary/PA - Jude, I think you are very right about the lack of understanding they have because of their language problems
Gigi/MO - Jude--I don't believe in phonics workbooks at all because I think the sounds are SO isolated on each of the pages!! We try to teach "phonics" as the children are immersed in text that they can read AND while they are writing!!
Mary/PA - That's one thing I have to work very hard on with my kids.
~克ude坍 - may I cite an example of one of my more difficult learners and elicit suggestions?
Mary/PA - Applied reading and writing is the best way to teach rather than isolated items. The kids need to see how the whole process fits together
~克ude坍 - Good, then I am on the right track
Gigi/MO - Mary--What ONE thing do you have to work very hard on? Jude--Bring it on!?!
Mary/PA - Jude, what did you want me to explain?
Melissa/1st - can i fire a few questions at some of you?
Mary/PA - Sure, we can do what ever you folks like, ask away
Melissa/1st - thanks....as a first year first grade teacher...i have a lot of questions as to whether my students are developing at the expected level
Gigi/MO - Sorry--too manny l's Melissa!! But you're used to first grade spelling, right? HAHA!!
~克ude坍 - Ok, my kids are all high school, all have low IQ's. I have been using journals, writing, letter tiles (any manipulative you can name...sand writing..etc) I have 1 boy who would be considered the "lowest" maybe "pre-emergent". I have had a lot of success with him, using sight words and some word patterns... but it seems he is just "a click" away from grasping it all conceptually...only I cannot seem to find the catalyst for that "click"..sorry for the typos...any ideas?
Mary/PA - I have to work very hard on the speech and language on my kids. They have so many problems using the language.
Melissa/1st - first my second round reading recovery students are at a level 10..is that normal?
~克ude坍 - same here Mary
Gigi/MO - Then I got too many n's also!?! Guess I'm trying to go TOO fast!!
Mary/PA - Jude, how is his oral language?
Melissa/1st - my first round kiddos are coming out at a level 12
Melissa/1st - where should my kids be reading by the end of the year?
Melissa/1st - ok..I'll let you catch up now
Melissa/1st - anyone a reading recovery teacher in here?
~克ude坍 - Mary..."ok" He speaks reasonably well, vocabulary is a little below average...receptive language is fine (I could read him a story and he could answer any questions)...did that answer your question?
Gigi/MO - Melissa--My second round kids came in on a level B, 5,6, and 9!! They are now a 1, 9, 12, and 10 respectively!!
Melissa/1st - Gigi when did they come in?
Mary/PA - Melissa, 12 for your first round is good if that's where the average in the classes are reading. Coming in at level 10 this time of year is high...level 10 isn't that far from average. It sounds like your regular teachers are doing a good job with the kids. .... or many of the kids with problems have been placed in an IEPed program .... which is it?
Gigi/MO - Melissa--I took 2 in RR in Dec. and 2 just now!!
Melissa/1st - high really? I was very worried...1 is in an IEP program
Melissa/1st - the rest are with me
Mary/PA - Can he talk without a lot of struggle to get his message across to you? Does he say most words correctly so that how he says words will look like they look in books?
~克ude坍 - message is loud and clear to me...even sarcastic when appropriate.....But, come to think of it...yesterday he was trying to say "gang" but called it "game"..... hmmmmm if that is the problem, what on earth can I do?
Melissa/1st - Where should my kids end up at the end of the year?
Mary/PA - For example, one of my kids today was reading a book with the word banana in it. She says "nana" she saw the b and got confused. .... I see this sort of thing a lot. I think that is why the kids learn to ignore the text and not really look at it....because it doesn't look like the way they talk
Melissa/1st - what level is average?
Mary/PA - thus it doesn't make sense to them
~克ude坍 - Mary, he can usually get most beginning sounds (not blends)...but half way through the word he has no clue
Mary/PA - Melissa, where they are at the end of the year will depend upon where the average are at the end of the year. Do you test for the average?
Melissa/1st - no..should I be?
~克ude坍 - run, rain, read....he usually reads the same...but after I prompt again he catches his error....I think he has spent the last 10 years of schooling guessing and that is a hard habit to break
Melissa/1st - I feel like I'm going in this completely blind
Mary/PA - Melissa, to test for the average, we ask the regular classroom teachers to give us the names of 6 kids who are average. We then randomly test 3 of those with the test booklet. We can get a picture of the average level of the class that way....that level is then our target level for the RR kids
Mary/PA - Jude, do you have magnetic letters?
~克ude坍 - Mary, no...but I have letter tiles, wax strips (I have the kids make into letters), Pipe cleaners (same) and letter cards
Melissa/1st - Ohhhhh..the RR teacher randomly tested 2 children earlier in the year...but theses happened to be 2 of my lowest
Melissa/1st - the 2 are now RR students second round
Mary/PA - Jude, run, rain, read if imbedded in text will not have the same meaning....he should be prompted to think of what makes sense
Didi (Oz) - What's todays topic?
~克ude坍 - I do play a game with them...where I roll a dice (dice have letters and blends) and whatever letter/blend it lands on we all go around saying words that begin with/end with or have (depending on the lesson) that letter/blend...He does well with that.
~克ude坍 - Mary, yes when in text he can self correct, but only after completing the full sentence and then thinking "oh, that made no sense"
Mary/PA - Melissa, I'm confused. I take it you are not a RRT
Karen - Are "average" kids in one of our classrooms is level 20 on the OS. I checked another student who is also at this level. The only students who are reading at level 12 are the RR students. At mid year, we all think they're making fine progress and discontinued them successfully. However, if our goal in this class is to bring the RR students to the average, there's just no way!
Melissa/1st - Mary..oh no...first year teacher....first grade
Karen - That should be "Our" average kids . . . Can you tell I'm tired?
Melissa/1st - OS?
Mary/PA - Didi, I wanted to talk about getting the regular classroom teachers to support our efforts with our RR kids, but we got off track....answering questions for other teachers.
Melissa/1st - Now I'm lost....so there is really not a SET goal
Melissa/1st - are my kids normal..should I really buckle down?
Mary/PA - Karen, those kids are so high! You have a different kind of problem...one that I have never had
Didi (Oz) - A problem I have too even with my ex RR teachers. This year I thought I would just send weekly on the Tuesday the running record for the day and list on it the spelling words covered in the past week as a constant way of suppling info.
Melissa/1st - Karen what state are you in?
Didi (Oz) - I'm still RAK at the moment so U don't know how it will go.
alison - Melissa, the goal of reading recovery is to take the lowest students in the class and accelerate their reading progress until they are reading at the average level of the class.
~克ude坍 - any additional ideas Mary
Gigi/MO - Melissa--We say that we'd like to see them on a level 16-18 at the end of first grade!?!
Mary/PA - Melissa, on average, level 16 at the end of the year is what we have been expecting. But this does vary from place to place. I'm hearing more and more about classrooms with very high levels. I'm not in an area that has those high levels. Are you the only first grade teacher in your building?
Mary/PA - Didi, I'm RAK with 5 kids right now
Karen - Melissa, I'm in PA. The first grade teachers in the 2 buildings in which I work have attended literacy classes (in house with the rest of our district's first grade teachers) and continue to meet monthly after school. After several years, I do think that the RR teachers and first grade teachers are "speaking the same language" and it's made a big difference. That said, this is a suburban school with a high socio-economic demographic.
Melissa/1st - theres another teacher who has 12 first graders and the rest are second graders...but she has the HIGH first....all reading above 2nd grade
Melissa/1st - I have the low/average first
Melissa/1st - i see Karen
Mary/PA - Jude, be sure that your student is always thinking about the meaning of the text that he is reading and always striving to make it make sense....it sounds like he's been told to sound it out far too often and that is all that he is doing.
Didi (Oz) - Myb kids are loving the rainbow letters an idea i got from here- Doug I think
Gigi/MO - Jude--Have him read EASY texts so that reading is FUN and he doesn't have to "sound out" most words.
Melissa/1st - can you explain rainbow lettters?
Mary/PA - Didi, at what levels did your kids test into the program?
Karen - My one RR student began the year at text level B knowing only 23 letters and having low scores across the OS. The fact that she's been fortunate to have first round RR in addition to having a first grade teacher who received RR training AND who has only 18 students in her class this year made an enormous impact for this child.
~克ude坍 - Mary that is hard when he can read so little, sentences he can handle b/c I can manipulate them using words he knows (and maybe adding one or two new ones) but as of yet, books overwhelm him and he starts random guessing
Melissa/1st - first round RR is an advantage?
Mary/PA - Karen, you are in an ideal situation....lucky for the kids!!!
Didi (Oz) - They are all at Dictated text. !!!! I had 5 at that level and afurther 8 at L1 so there is a long tail in Yr2 this year.
~克ude坍 - any book suggestions?
Didi (Oz) - All except 1 have pretty good letter knowledge above 40
Mary/PA - Jude, you need to get your hands on some easy levels. There are books made now that your student could be reading. When do you make out your order for next year? Or go to your local elem. school and talk to the teachers there. They may have some books you can use
Gigi/MO - Jude--I've never worked with older students SO I can't really help you there!!
~克ude坍 - school order...LOL elementary school share LOL... I am afriad it will be out of my pocket, but that is fine....know of any place I can order online?
~克ude坍 - BTW this kid wants to read so bad, I could tell him to stand on his head and he would....so there is no embarrassment issue with low level books
~克ude坍 - wow, grammar, and spelling is off tonight...sorry
Gigi/MO - Many of the book companies have websites and I'm sure you can order online!!
Mary/PA - Jude you are going to have to find out his exact reading level so that you can gather books at that level. He'll never learn to read using material that is too difficult for him. He also needs books so that he has the support of pictures...that is very important at this emergent level
Karen - One of my second rounders is a new ESL student to our building this semester. She had a year of kindergarten and half year of first grade in another district. This is my first experience with an ESL student (from Pakistan). English communication skills are coming along very nicely, but she has no sound/symbol correlations (does know the letter names). Does anyone know anything about the sounds of her first language. Which ones I should expect will be particularly difficult?
~克ude坍 - mary how can I find out his exact level? I do know he can barely grasp all the pre-primer dolch words
~克ude坍 - Karen, I have some friends whose native language is arabic...lots of sounds we do not have.
Gigi/MO - I personally like Rigby books!! I like the pictures and they usually go with the text!! They also have a "story" in some of their books!!
Mary/PA - Jude, can you get to the elem. school and talk to a teacher there? One who knows how to do rinning records and has books you can use?
Karen - Jude, you can purchase some easy Rigby books (both fiction and nonfiction) and get multiple uses out of them by using the white cover-up tape and changing a word or two.
Mary/PA - Gigi, I like them as well. I also like the the Sundance books
~克ude坍 - Mary, sadly it is unlikely. I was hoping to purchase a set of books that go from very low to higher.
~克ude坍 - Rigby and Sundance...will do a search.
Karen - Jude, I signed on late. What age is the student?
Gigi/MO - Jude--Talk to some book reps. and see if you can get some samples!! That would at least be a few to start with and that would also give you a way to se which ones you like!! Tell the companies that you are getting ready to order and would like to see some of what they have to offer!!
Mary/PA - Jude, do you have the funds for purchasing books? They cost a lot! I'd hate to have to pay for them out of my own pocket. A small box of books can cost a few hundred dollars.
~克ude坍 - 16 Karen
Didi (Oz) - I have to go , Mary we are still trying to get the Sun meeting for Australasia up, but it is taking a bit of time this end getting onto RR networks. I did discover a chatboard for rr teachers on our state website so once I get connected there I'll see if i can get a response.
~克ude坍 - Mary, no, not really...but could start out small I suppose....kid needs books?!
Gigi/MO - I think everything just froze up!!
Mary/PA - Didi, I'd love to have that URL
Karen - Jude, there's a website learning page az (I have to look up the address) where you can pay a one time fee and download books at various levels. Maybe that's a way to start.
Mary/PA - Jude, isn't there anyone who can help you get what your kids need? There has to be a way to get the materials. They need a large number of books.
Didi (Oz) - Which URL Mary.
~克ude坍 - Karen, I think I have visited there before
Mary/PA - The one for the chatboard on your state site
~克ude坍 - Mary, sadly no...there is a lot of politics involved and I guess the bottom line is noone really expects these kids to learn and with funds being so tight the money is going to the kids who need to pass the state tests. Maybe next year, but not now.
Mary/PA - What is your state, Didi? Maybe I can find the URL if I have something to go by
Mary/PA - Jude, is there an elem. school associated with your school?
Gigi/MO - Jude--So they expect you to teach with not much or do they just want you to fill their time and not REALLY teach!!
Mary/PA - Didi, can you find that URL or tell me what state you are in? Or is that chatboard closed to outsiders?
Didi (Oz) - Mary I don't have it here I'll get it and send it to you
Mary/PA - Good, thanks Didi
~克ude坍 - Gigi...the politics are really really silly....I cannot begin to explain. I do have about 10 years of acculumated supplies (good supplies) so in terms of this new literacy initiative...it was really my supplies that got hired, not me.
Genelle - Has anyone tried readinga-z.com to get levelled books. I am not sure of the levelling but I really do like the books. There are several freebies and lots to order for a really small fee.
Mary/PA - Well, I have to go now. Thanks for coming everyone.
~克ude坍 - As in they switched around my schedule, b/c 1- it was the most flexible and 2- I have tons of stuff
Didi (Oz) - I am not sure but it's on the Education Queensland site I am not sure about it all as I am still in the process of registering.
Karen - That's it Jude - readinga-z.com I've used a few and my elem. students have liked them.
Didi (Oz) - Must go have to get back to a workshop day thanks
Mary/PA - Joe, this was a Reading Recovery meeting, but we really covered many other things this evening
Gigi/MO - Jude--I see!! Sounds like they might just be USING you!!
Mary/PA - Didi, thanks for coming, I'll be looking for you on Sundays
Mary/PA - Good night everyone
~克ude坍 - yes Gigi...but for the kids sake I think they made a good choice LOL
sped_joe - If you're looking for free stuff, have you tried "edhelper.com"?...as a multi-age, multi-level junior high teacher..it has saved me!!
Karen - Good night. Thanks.
sped_joe - Sorry..I'm a special education teacher...I should get my wife on this conversation...she's a RR teacher (incredible one at that!)
Gigi/MO - Jude--I think YOU got that right!! Are you the one that is in Room 1 at times!! I used to be in there quite a bit and think I remember you name but you were retired then, I thought!!
~克ude坍 - Nope, not retired...yet LOL and yes I am in room 1 a lot
Gigi/MO - OK--Guess I was confused!! Are you from the south?
~克ude坍 - yep NC
Gigi/MO - It seems like there was another J name from AL, GA? that used to be in Room 1 also!!
~克ude坍 - Nanny is from GA and retired
Gigi/MO - That's who I'm thinking of!! J?? Where did that come from!?!
Gigi/MO - Hope we helped give you some ideas tonight!!
~克ude坍 - yes, thank you so much...have a good night
Gigi/MO - You too!! Hang in there!! Night!!
