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Mary/PA - Good evening. Welcome to tonight's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net. Tonight we will have an open chat. We can discuss anything that is of interest to you.
Mary/PA - Are you a RR Teacher?
Bethany - This is my first chat room, thought I'd give it a try
Bethany - No, I am a first year kindergarten teacher
Doug - i am reading Change Over Time.marie Clay's new book....it's realy good
Mary/PA - Did you have to do end of year scan forms and records?
Bethany - Mary- I'm trying to muddle through running records on all my students level 4 and above... any tips to make it easier?
Doug - mary- i started them but I am going to school tomorrow to have a friend "walk me through them."
Mary/PA - Bethany, the more running records you do the easier they get
Mary/PA - The hard part is keeping the rest of the class out of your hair while doing them --- the running records, that is
Mary/PA - Doug are you doing them online?
Doug - So Mary what is the topic tonight?
Bethany - The MSV still confuses me...the difference between the Syntactic and the visual
Debbie - How do you find training for reading recovery?
Mary/PA - It's open topic tonight
Doug - Mary next year i will
Mary/PA - anything you want
Mary/PA - Bethany, that is a bit difficult to understand at first
Doug - want to review running records to help bethany?
Mary/PA - S is if the error makes sense and can be said that way
Mary/PA - V is if the error has any part of it that looks and or sounds like the text word
Bethany - so s has to do with meaning and visual, v is just visual?
Mary/PA - Debbie, you have to get your school to participate in the program and then become one of the people they will train
Doug - bethany- the most important thing I could suggest in analyzing a running record is not accuracy levels but rather the reading work- (the in your head strategies the child uses when working on unknowns)
Mary/PA - You have to be working in the school already because training involves teaching as you train
Debbie - Mary, how do I get my school to participate in the training?
Bethany - Doug - that helps, my concern is that I'm teaching in a kindergarten school and I want the first grade teachers to be able to follow what I've done
Mary/PA - Debbie, you have to work on your administration, convince them that Reading Recovery is something that your school or district needs.
Bethany - (I don't know them and am in a different building)
Doug - bethany if johnny says feather for the word father its visual...if johnny says dad for father its meaning and syntactic...if johnny says mom its syntactic its acceptable as the same part of speech but does not make sense)....some reading recovery teachers argue over having s without m.
Mary/PA - Get in touch with the Teacher Leader in your area. He/she should be able to help.
Mary/PA - Debbie, do you have a training center in your area?
Doug - debbie- you can find your local teacher leader through the north american rr council...http://www.readingrecovery.org...
Bethany - ok, that helps
Mary/PA - Bethany, are the teachers familiar with running records?
Debbie - Mary, I don't think I would have a problem with that. If they said yes, where is the training headquartered?
Mary/PA - If not, they won't understand what you have done. If they are, then they will understand.
Mary/PA - Running Records, if done properly are pretty much universal. They will make sense to anyone who sees them.
Doug - mary- marie clay in her new book cautions teachers not to overdue onset/rime with making and breaking....she gives many reasons
Bethany - Some, noone has had tremendous experience, but we currently have a LA specialist in the building 1 day per week and it's hard to find time with her. I did sit down with her while she did RR on some of my higher students and that was helpful. Since then I've been practicing on my own.
Debbie - Thank-you both so much.
Mary/PA - Debbie, each area has their own site. I don't know where you are, so I can't even guess where your site is.
Valarie65 - Hi everyone! Could someone explain Reading Recovery to me? I'm not sure what it is?!! Thanks!
Mary/PA - For example, our Reading Recovery training site services 3 counties in my area
Doug - bethany- http://www.heinemann.com has a new practice book by marie clay to go over the use of running records...also at http://www.stenhouse.com peter Johnston has a book and tape to teach teachers to use running records
Mary/PA - Some school districts have their own sites. It varies.
Bethany - Thank you, that's great
Doug - valarie- its a second chance to give a child an accelerated program of reading and writing contuinuous text and hopefully before 20 weeks to reach the 50th percentil in rank ordering with the classroom of cohorts....
Mary/PA - Bethany, why are you limiting yourself to just the kids reading at level 4 and above?
Valarie65 - Do you have to have special training to be a reading recovery teacher?
Doug - valarie- at the site there is a greeeeeeat explanation by a university teacher leader its at http://www.readingrecovery.org
Bethany - because I teach half day, 4 and above represent about 28 children and I'm a little swamped. The LA actually requires level 6 and above since that's above the K benchmark. She want to give the 1st grade teachers a heads up.
Valarie65 - Thanks Doug - I'll check it out!
Mary/PA - Valarie, yes. The training takes a full year and then it continious. Every year each Reading Recovery teacher has to attend 6 continuing contact classes. There are also cluster groups that we participate in to keep your learning and understanding growing.
Doug - valarie- at your service...
Doug - It's also important to remember that we live and breathe the constructivists attitude toward learning...it's in our traing and its in the books we read...for us we are always learning...I hope that helps with the "why"
Beth - Does anyone know of summer Reading Recovery Institutes being held this summer?
Beth - I'm a Reading Recovery Teacher in Mn
Bethany - Doug or mary, at which point do the children in first grade enter RR?...about what level are you targeting?
Doug - Beth - the world conference I believe is in Brittish colombia, Canada...I think in August
Lori - No, two years ago we used the Guided Rdg; running records, leveled rdg. Now we're using a scripted program. I was just wondering what's the latest in RR.
Mary/PA - Beth, I haven't heard of any, but there are usually some. Have you looked that the site to see if any are listed?
Doug - Beth maine?
Mary/PA - Bethany, I usuually get kids who can't even read at level 1
Mary/PA - We take the lowest students we can find.
Bethany - Before you take them, do you rule out LD?
Mary/PA - Lori, Reading Recovery doesn't change, each teacher's understand seems to evolve though.
Doug - We ask the first grade classrooms to rank order the class then we give extensive testing to 20% from the bottom 9provided they attended Kindergarten because its a second chance program)
Beth - Woops! I got knocked off. I'm from Minnesota. How about you? I tried the site. Nothing listed yet.
Mary/PA - Bethany, only if they are IEPed.
Beth - We take them even if they are labled LD
Mary/PA - We don't rule out anyone
Doug - bethany- children with active IEP's usually are excluded because they are already getting individualized instruction
Mary/PA - If they went to kindergarten, and are the lowest and are not identified, we take them.
Mary/PA - Beth, have you asked your TL?
Beth - We take identified children in Minnesota. We take the bottom 20% regardless
Bethany - That's good to hear, I thought I took a class where the prof. said only the ones who can make the most gains were accepted and that sounded awful.
Mary/PA - Beth, even if they have an active IEP?
Doug - Mary- also if they can understand the tasks on the observation survey....we have lots of Spansish speaking kids who need to wait a bit here in California
Beth - You both skip identified special education children?
Beth - Yes! We take them even if they have an active IEP
Mary/PA - Oh, Doug, yes, I forgot about the second language kids. We don't have many here.
Doug - Beth- wow....are you given longer than 20 weeks with those kids with special needs
Mary/PA - Although the language that they speak may seem like another language at times.
Mary/PA - Beth, we don't. We have too many other kids who need the slots.
Doug - mary- very true...LOL
Doug - Beth- is that ruling from Ohio State or from your teacher leader?
Mary/PA - We are not fully implemented in my building. There are kids who need the service, but we can't get to them because of the large number of kids in need.
Beth - No, just 20 weeks. Most make it, some do not. They sure grow though. We have 3 RR teachers in our building though. We take almost 1/2 of the first grade by the end of the year. Kind of exciting to have a district so committed to RR. We do have extreemly low children though. 54% of our school scored below the 10th stanine at the begining of the year!
Lori - Mary, RR is used as a pull-out? Yes?
Beth - RR is an individual 1/2 hour lesson every day for twenty weeks
Mary/PA - Lori, yes it is, it's a one on one program.
Doug - Lori- for the mst part...some teachers in first grade do it in their own rooms before and after school
Lori - What are the reg. ed. classroom teachers using for instruction?
Mary/PA - Lori, anything that the district has told them to use.
Mary/PA - It's nice if the regular clasroom teachers have an understanding of what RR does, but it's not a requirement
Doug - Lori- because we teach kids to use a self-extending system all forms of instruction are found in regular classrooms..at my school site we use early literacy using literacy framework
Lori - I'm in TX. When the district had adopted a more "whole language" program. They supplemented with observation checklists, running records, leveled readers. Now they've adopted a very scripted heavy phonics-type program. I miss the guided rdg times. Then I felt I really knew exactly where all of my students were.
Beth - Our teacher Leader was trained in Texas. Our former teacher leader who was trained in Ohio used to let us skip the Special Education children. This one insists on starting with the lowest of low. She says that every child deserves a program. When I see how much they gain in twenty weeks I have to agree with her. If we couldn't service all of the children in need I would probably march to a different drummer though!
Doug - Lori- do you know betsy ilgenfritz?
Lori - no, I'm in North TX.
Beth - Lori are you a RR Teacher?
Lori - no
Gina - Do any of you teach small reading groups as well as RR? I'm wondering what you think works well with groups?
Doug - Anyone reading Clay's new book....Change Over Time?
Mary/PA - Gina, I wish. I teach Kindergarten the other half of my day
Gina - No what's it like Doug?
Bethany - Thank you for all your help, mary and doug. This was fun...Bye
Lori - But I am interested in the strategies and assessments they use. It sounds very similar to the guided rdg approach we used.
Gina - Oh my Mary!
Doug - Gina- try to get information on the Arkansas model.....they integrate the rr kid through small groups
Beth - Yes I teach literacy groups. All of our RR students also go to a reading group for 1 1/2 hours as well. We use guided reading and modified RR techniques
Gina - You must be a dynamo!
Mary/PA - Not me, Doug, maybe this summer, right now I'm swamped with getting the end of this year done
Pat - Does anyone know how I can find the email address of a Reading Recovery teacher in Northern Ireland? I have the name, but not the email address. Is there some type of directory worldwide?
Mary/PA - Pat, I don't know of anything like that.
Gina - I just sent for the book Apprentice to Literacy Doug - is that the model?
Mary/PA - What would be a good topic for our next meeting?
Doug - Gina- its going to be very controversial...she slashes apart decodable texts, onset/rime overuse etc......Clay is just being herself showing us different paths to
Mary/PA - Our next meeting will be June 11th
Mary/PA - I think
Lori - Pat, my husband was saying there should be a people search on your first page when you log-in that allows you to search for e-mail addresses. Maybe that will help.
Gina - Is it time to go already Mary?
Beth - Doug - Is Change over Time any good? What does it include?
Doug - Gina no but dorn one of the authors of the book helped design the model....try asking your teacher leader
Doug - beth- i love it but I love controversy
Mary/PA - Gina, no, I just don't want to forget to ask
Beth - I'd love to get some more ideas for make and break
Gina - Good
Mary/PA - Doug, ooo! Sounds good, I really must get it.
Beth - Or should I say hear some more discussion on Making and Breaking
Pat - Thanks, Lori. I will try that.
Doug - beth- what troubles you with m&b?
Gina - Why did my level 18 RR kids do so poorly on the Gates-Maginitie test last week?
Gina - I was shocked - but this has been my training year
Mary/PA - You know, I'm beginning to think that we over do making and breaking. I think there comes a time in the child's program that we need to change to totally applied making and breaking, know what I mean?
Doug - Gina- isn't the Gates test a passage followed by questions?
Gina - No Doug, it has a decoding section and a match-the-picture to the passage section
Mary/PA - Gina, too much item knowledge is tested and not enough continuous text items. That's my guess
Valarie65 - How does a regular classroom teacher get to be a reading recovery teacher?
Doug - mary- a visiting TL from NZ was at our continuing contact and she said that we leave letter id too fast and start making and breaking too early....you yanks.....LOL
Gina - The continuous text items were tricky and students had to really search for details becasue the pics were all similar
Mary/PA - Gina, there's no context and meaning for the children to use and search. It pretty much ties their hands.
Gina - But the average kids in the class did well...?
Mary/PA - Valarie, is your district involved in RR?
Beth - It always helps my children link taking text apart when they see how to do it with the magnetic letters. They usually start making links themselves in the text part way through the program and some even remark that they did it just like they do on the magnic board.
Lori - Doug, (Got my attention) Did she mean in RR or in general?
Gina - Beth I even say, "cover parts with your finger because we can't move these words - they are stuck!" ha
Valarie65 - mary- yes, I believe so
Gina - When they are TWAIR (Taking Words Apart In Reading)
Doug - Lori- in rr, NZ kids do lots and lots of letter id sorting even up to level 10....they want fine discrimination
Mary/PA - Yes Beth, that's what I mean. When the kids can do that, should we continue to teach an isolated M&B segment? If the kids know how it works, should we keep spending lesson time on it in isolation?
Mary/PA - Valarie, if so, talk to your principal and tell him/her of your interest.
Valarie65 - mary, I've been privately employed as a kindergarten teacher for the last two years. I'm interested in this! Do you need to be in a school system to be considered? Or does an administrator just look at your credentials and experience? Thanks for your advice
Beth - We are supposed to continue but go to a higher level
Beth - What level do your students have to get to by the end of first grade?
Mary/PA - Valarie, in most cases you need to be employed in a district that is involved in RR. There are some cases where districts are looking to hire people who are willing to train.
Beth - I mean the average student in your district?
Lori - G'nite! Enjoy the rest of your week.
Gina - How long is too long to spend taking a word apart during the new book? I know we don't want them to forget reading, but they can go back and reread
Beth - Doug are you from NZ?
Valarie65 - Thanks Mary! I'm going to check into this in my system!
Doug - no i am from the center of the world...southern california...LOL
Gina - I meant we don't want them to forget meaning - oops
Mary/PA - Beth, we are now being told not to look at the levels so much. We are to consider the self extending system of each child and where the average kids are in each classroom and that is the target level for our kids.
Mary/PA - In my building it's level 16 by the end of the year.
Gina - But Mary, if the student has a self-extending system, but is not the average, can't we still discontinue them??
Doug - Mary- that is is excellent and makes sense. Next have a copy of the journal from the middle child to see what they are writing
Mary/PA - Gina, it should happen very quickly. If it's taking too long, it's best to just give a told and then work on the M&B in the next lesson.
Beth - I know that in Reading Recovery we are supposed to do the same. Our district expects the average reader to be at level 19 by the end of first grade. They are expected to pass a Level 19 passage by the end of the year.
Gina - Yes, good idea about the journal Doug! We should have that when we start RR with a student
Mary/PA - Gina, not according to what we are being told, they must be average or above.
Doug - Gina- i meant look at the journal from the child in the classroom who is rank ordered at the medial position
Mary/PA - Beth, if that's where the average children are in your district, then that's the level you have to have your kids.
Gina - OK thanks Mary. I like to see the students getting a lot of practice though TWAIR. Wouldn't it get faster the more he/she practices? And we don't want the new bk to have many hard places
Beth - Same with us. Average or above. I know that is where we have to have them.
Gina - Yes I understood that Doug - my response didn't sound that way tho.
Mary/PA - Yes, we have to help the child transfer the knowledge of the M&B section of the lesson to the reading process when reading the new book.
Mary/PA - It will be slow until they understand how that works.
Doug - sometimes you get a classroom teacher that is not really "in touch " and has your child in a level far below what you have them in...that's why I make a copy of the book graph each Friday for the teacher...its like a silent reminder....LOL
Doug - sorry Gina-
Gina - So it's ok to let them work on twair slowly during reading, at first?
Mary/PA - Well, it's time for me to go. Thanks for coming and I hope to see you all next time.
Beth - You're right Mary. Once they make that link they take off. That does seem to be the magic Aha moment.
Doug - I need to go ...mary thanks again....bye everyone ...
Mary/PA - Will Making and Breaking be our topic? Did I miss any suggestions?
Gina - I didn't catch any others, but maybe something will come up in addition
Beth - Thanks Mary!
Gina - Goodnight and thanks all!
Mary/PA - OK, thanks.
Mary/PA - Good night all
