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Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net. Tonight we will discuss the Observational Survey.
Mary/PA - We must remember to refer to it even long after we are into lessons. We should look at how the child scored on each section. Look for the weakest areas and compare it to the child's present behavior.
Doug - Can i start a little discussion. When i am lost and I need something, the language of the OS will usually help me. I also take very detailed notes on the six subtests more than ever because I know how I will use the info in roaming and in early lessons
Julie - Hi everybody. I am moving from K to Reading Recovery this coming year. I 'll do my initial training in Aug. I'm trying to find out as much as I can about the program so I'll know what to expect.
jan - those notes are really important in roaming - especially with the first wave children
harpo - first grade teachers in our bldg want to start using OS--what subtest should they begin with?
jan - we were taught to take very detailed notes during the survey
tyylee - What kinds of things do you find when giving the OS? I find that different people sometimes see different things.
harpo - they also want to know if they need to do all subtests 1-1
Doug - harpo- a true rr teacher would say that all 6 subtests are important but text reading is by far the most important from a classroom perspective
jan - Our first grade teachers have given the the test for the last 2 years
harpo - i'm suggesting they use the DRA to standardize the RR --what do you think?
Doug - I like to look for patterns..patterns with TR, WV etc. It tells me a lot about where I need to start
tyylee - Harpo, do you have RR in your building? I like to give the OS to the lowest third to half of the classes myself so that when I select my students I have my own notes to referr to.
jan - They give each test individually and have really reaped the benefits of the infomration gained. They hated it at first, but seem to really want to give it now because of the information
Doug - What they control is usaully my first observation
jan - The RR teachers test the bottom 40%
harpo - some teachers in Michigan are using a supplemental set of books published by Scott Foresman -- they look like the rr testing booklets, what do you use
jan - the bottom children are determined from K testing
harpo - we will have 1 teacher in training -- i'm going back into the classroom to allow her to be trained.
Doug - jan- including the new kids that came in
harpo - she will be part of our newly formed Literacy Collaborative team
tyylee - Doug, when giving the OS to a child who is already reading (second rounders) how far do you go with the text level reading, up to the point where they lose fluency or do you go entirely by the % of errors?
jan - I don't know whether or not I could go back to the classroom have been doing rr and out of the classroom for 7 years now
harpo - i'm excited about having a first grade--i've always missed it...
Doug - tyylee- that's a great question.. i use %'s because i have to report all the stuff to my TL
jan - yes - the rr teachers catch the new ones as they come in. The first week of school on 6 children come in each classroom and they are given the RR test and CSAB
jan - We test our second wave ones until we find a instructional level
tyylee - When I go entirely by the % I find that I often have to drop two or more levels in roaming just to make it comfortable for the child. I think we should look at fluency as well as % but we report % also.
jan - do any of you do small group lit instruction with the other half of your day
jan - We always drop a couple of levels during roaming to start with to help build that comfort leve
Doug - Here's an interesting question that our TL made us go back and find it in the OS book...how do you score a rereading if the first time it was self-corrected but he goes back and rereads and substitutes?
Marie - I continue testing until I suspect child has lost comprehension. Then do some checking for understanding. If child is not getting the story, I stop testing even if accurat.
mary - Do you count very for vary on HSIW?
Mary/PA - mary, the OS says not to count that, so I don't, but I don't agree - the way we talk here, it sounds the same
Sadie - How do you say very with a NZ accent?
giggy - have any of you ever heard of a half time RR teacher and half time Literacy Coach??? can one person do this?
Sadie - What does a Literacy Coach's job include?
mugsyboo - Giggy Yes my friend does that
giggy - working in the classroom with one teacher, helping getting started in basically the 4 blocks methods (or our variation)
mugsyboo - She helps the teachers implement the 8 components
Sadie - Hi Doug. Before you disappeared I asked if you found the answer to your question in the OS book?
Doug - sadie- no
Doug - On the OS, when I give CAP and the child does not locate the first letter of a word..i make sure I don't ask get your mouth ready or predict and locate with bookwalks, any opinions?
Sadie - Doug, I have counted it as correct if the child said it the first time. I don't know if that is correct but I figure the child got to it and is now attending to something else when he/she makes the error. In other words, he/she is probably re-reading to try to get to a later word....am I making sense?
Doug - Sadie- so your vote is the last response given or the first one?
Mary/PA - Doug, on CAP, you are to follow the directions pretty much as they are in the OS. Don't give any other promts. We want to know what the child knows on his/her own
mugsyboo - I also follow the script
Doug - mary- i was talking about once the kid can't locate the first letter of a word then you need to teach it during lessons (word vs. letter) Yes, i am very true to the directions on the OS
Sadie - Doug, if the child said it correct at first I count it as correct unless the child immediatly substitutes another word. In other words, if the child gets to the end of the line and then goes back and rereads for whatever reason and reads it incorrectly then.... I think it should still be correct. What do you think? Did that make any sense?
marym - On CAP is ok to reread the lines of text when a child says can you read it again?
Doug - Sadie- its just something that comes up especially with an overpredictive child who uses language to drive his reading
Mary/PA - Sadie on TR you count the last response, even if the child said it right first, but then changed
Sadie - Here's some good news... I'm in the midst of end of year testing and follow-up testing of prior year's kids. So far, almost all of out former RR kids are testing out at or above grade level in reading! Yay!
Doug - Mary- i was talking about CAP and the response you need to show on lessons
Mary/PA - You MSV all attempts, but if the child left it incorrect, then it is counted as an error
Sadie - mary, oops! I guess I always just want the child to be successful! Does it say that in the OS book? I'd like to bring that up at our next CC
Doug - Sadie- that is good news
Mary/PA - Great news, Sadie!!
Sadie - One student that I discontinued in January just tested out at a level 22!
Sadie - Her teacher says she is now one of the best readers in the class.
Mary/PA - Sadie, maybe I'm still confused about what you guys are talking about. But in Text Reading, you always count the child's last response. I don't think that is in the OS, but I do know that our TL told us to count what the child said last.
Doug - Mary- originally i wrote the child first self corrects followed by rereading with a substitution. Is that counted as an error...yes...last error is counted but the OS book also says that if there is a way to record the reading another way then you count the way that has the fewest errors
elaine - If a child pronounces "looked" as "look-ed" is that counted as an error?
Sadie - elaine..good question. I have a student who speaks like that! She says "lookted"....can we just chalk that up to oral language?
Sadie - accent maybe?
Doug - mary- In A Bird Can Fly...do you count as insertions when a child echoes what you said?
Mary/PA - Ok, if the correct word was said, but not in the correct place, it can be counted as correct with an insertion note for any extra words he may have said
Doug - elaine - I would and i would circle the v
Mary/PA - No, if they also say their part
Mary/PA - That may only happen for the first, but not for all
elaine - Would "lookted" be counted as an error on the OS?
Mary/PA - elaine - on which part of the OS?
Doug - elaine- i would...its a deviation from text...your talking about TR right?
elaine - Mary/PA-determining the reading level
Mary/PA - Yes, on TR it is an error
Mary/PA - Did you folks talk about the upper levels of the texts for the OS?
Doug - Mary- here's one to laugh about. There are 2 first grade teachers using the Scott Foresman benchmark test each time a child is ready to move a reading level......
Mary/PA - I think they are so very awful for young readers - the the copied versions that we have to use are so hard for the kids to see
Mary/PA - Doug are they using the same versions that you have to use?
Doug - mary - ask your TL if you can use a content area textbook or an informal reading inventory
Mary/PA - How do you handle this?
Doug - yes...and I have tried to show them the light...right now they see me as a know it all and I need to walk a fine line
Mary/PA - Doug, we are told that under no circumstances should we use any other texts, that would make the research findings invalid
Doug - mary- that's what I was told also...memories of when we used scripted manuals with basal readers
Doug - how about excuses instead of circumstances LOL
Mary/PA - Whatever
Mary/PA - I think that it is time for a change in the OS Texts that we use here in the States
Doug - mary yes
Julie - Mary, I have cleaned out my K classroom to change to a RR position. Will I need my own classroom books that I have collected or are there special texts for RR? I won't train until August. I don't know what to store and what to keep out.
Doug - mary- thanks for sharing. Do you have any ideas for the next one?
Mary/PA - Julie, you will get RR texts. You may be able to use some of your books, but not too many
elaine - When Reading Recovery is finally established and respected as a legitimate and effective remedial reading program, do you suppose the scan sheets and truckloads of paperwork will be unnecessary?
Mary/PA - elaine, probably not, since in most areas RR is funded by the Feds, we will always have to be justifying our existance
Mary/PA - Julie, thanks for coming
