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Monday, August 14, 2000
Reading Recovery
Parent Involvement And Communication
Related Links
Reading Recovery Council of North America
Reading Recovery in California Home Page
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Mary/PA - Good evening
Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net. Tonight we will discuss parent involvement and communication.
Mary/PA - Does anyone here have any ideas to offer about how to get the parents more involved in the program?
daisy - I think that parents become more involved when they actually see you doing sessions with their child. They seem to become motivated.
kinderkate - At our school we try to get the parents to meet with us at least once before we start letting the kids take books home with them. Partly to explain program, partly to TRY to stress importance of listening to child read and RETURNING books.
Mary/PA - Do you have the parents come in before the child's program starts and after as well?
kinderkate - I agree, daisy, however it is difficult when parents don't speak English. I am lucky to get a translator once for each child.
daisy - If you can't really communicate with the parents, how do you know that they will get the support they need at home?
Mary/PA - kinderkate, are all your RR kids ESL?
tyylee - I have found that the parents don't understand the process and importance of the cut up sentence unless I have met with them face to face but that is difficult since most of my parents work.
Mary/PA - When you have parents come in to observe, do you work things out so that you can have the child's lesson at the end of the day so that you will have time to talk with them without having to cancel another child's lesson?
tyylee - It was suggested to me that we send home a video tape of a lesson. Has anyone tried this?
daisy - Here's a neat idea, what if you made a video showing parents what to do that the child you are working with could take home. This is for those parents that can't make it in.
kinderkate - I average half and half - ELL's and English speakers. It is very difficult to get parents of Ell's involved - sometimes I will enlist an older sibling.
kinderkate - I have not tried the video tape hope part but it sounds like a good idea. I'm sure they will view it over and over.
didi(Aus) - I find the support varies even when all are not ESL kids
tyylee - Last year one of my students did his RR homework with a classmate as part of his morning work time since he didn't have any help at home. He liked it and some help was better than none.
Mary/PA - tyylee, I did that a lot a few years ago. But I haven't done it much lately. I suppose I should try to set that up again. It's difficult to get a camera angle right with the set-up that I have had. I'm going to rearrange my entire room this year and hope that I can come up with a better set-up. I teach RR in my Kindergarten classroom
daisy - We video tape each of our student's once or twice during our time with the student and show it to the parents. They are quite excited to see what we are doing and to see how well their child is progressing
didi(Aus) - Do you have the video set or have someone operating it daisy
kinderkate - Good idea, tyylee. We have after school homework sessions. I bet I could enlist a couple of older kids to be helpers.
tyylee - Mary, I set the video camera on top of a file cabinet and the children don't notice it as much. I leave it there for several weeks and they don't know when I am taping and when I am not taping. I usually try to turn it on before the children come into their lesson.
Mary/PA - Do most of your parents have phones?
didi(Aus) - Yes why Mary
kinderkate - Most of my students have phones, Mary, but it is usually the case that the one's I am having problems with do NOT.
Mary/PA - I often have parents with no phone, and they don't read the messages that I write and send home. It's difficult to find a way to communicate with them.
kinderkate - I am liking that video tape idea more and more - especially since I just got a new camera. lol I could tape a lesson and then tape what should be done at home.
tyylee - Our title 1 program has a 'home school advisor' who will make home visits and show the parents how to work with their children in their own homes.
kinderkate - A couple of the RR teachers at my school have a journal that they send with the child daily. They write a message to parents and hope to get a message back. It has always sounded like much too much trouble for me.
kinderkate - I thought you were in canada, tyylee.
didi(Aus) - Keeping it up that frequently would be hard
Mary/PA - Do you have any ideas as to how to help the child remember to be sure to ask the parent to listen to them read and do their sentence every evening?
didi(Aus) - I find getting books home and returned hard enough
tyylee - We have tried the parent journal once a week, on Fridays or Mondays. Only a few parents responded and those were the ones that we communicated with anyway.
daisy - You could have a photocopy of a calendar page and have the parent sign it each evening after they listen to their child read and put the sentence together.
didi(Aus) - that's an interesting idea daisy
tyylee - I have them paste the sentence in a spiral notebook that I provide. I also put a glue stick in the bag. If the sentence is completed the next day the child gets a sticker on a chart and a prize after ten or twenty stickers.
kinderkate - Well, mine usually do the sentence, but I don't know if the parents help. For the sentence I make a booklet with 10 pages. Child is to reassemble and glue sentence to page, and illustrate. I don't check it daily, instead child tells me when it is finished. We read it for familiar reading and he/she gets to get a prize from the prize box.
didi(Aus) - We have the book and glue stick but I like the chart idea
daisy - At least then you would know that they actually looked at what their child was supposed to be reading and hopefully listen to them read and put their sentence together
Mary/PA - daisy, I include a reading log in the child's pouch that goes home each day with the books and sentence. Only a few parents enter any info on the log.
Mary/PA - tyylee, does that work? ... the stickers and prizes ... we were told that we were not to do prizes and stickers etc.
tyylee - Mary, do you write on the reading log or just the parents
Mary/PA - But if it works, I'll try it
daisy - I find that the less work I have the parents do, the more it gets done. They would sooner just initial each evening to indicate that work has been completed.
kinderkate - Yes, I have had a problem with the reading log also. I usually send at least 2 books home so I ask the child which one the parent liked best. It is the best way to find out if parent really listened. Sometimes parents listen and don't sign log, other times they sign but don't listen.
tyylee - We were told that too but I will do anything needed to get the job done. I hope the 'police' didn't see that.
didi(Aus) - Has your new school year started yet
Mary/PA - tyylee, I also write on the log sheet, but I quit after a time if it appears that I am writing to myself each day
didi(Aus) - Has your new school year started yet?
daisy - I don't start till next week
Sue/TN - I just started roaming with my first students today. Am just beginning training. Any new ideas on first round roaming would be great. Is there a topic??
Mary/PA - We start school the last week of this month
tyylee - Sometimes the children do several sentences one night and none the next but I reward them for every sentence completed. We try to make time to read yesterday's sentence from their notebook as part of familiar reading. The sticker chart is in the front of their notebook so it is easy to then give them a sticker if they have completed the work.
Shar - We started today. The class ranking sheets are due to us on Friday. You know that means that we will be testing on Monday - next week.
Dux - I used a daily journal to go back and forth. Sometimes it is wonderful, sometimes the parents just ignore it.
didi(Aus) - We are onto our second round so I have one finishing this week and one first lesson today
tyylee - Does anyone have a pre written set of parent letters that they send home periodically? I have seen that suggested but have not tried it myself.
daisy - I don't have time to write in a journal each day. How do you manage to do this and what are you putting in the journal
kinderkate - We have the K-teachers rank students at end of year so we are ready to start testing first day of school. Any adjustments - new students, etc - are made by end of first week. Last year I started roaming on monday of 2d week of school
Mary/PA - tyylee, I've never heard of pre written letters. What would they include?
Dux - Parent would usually write once a week . I would always answer.
Sue/TN - Do most use some form of sticker chart/calendar in the sentence notebook that is sent home...rewarding them after so many completed assignments?
rrguru - When students are taking the WV part of the assessment, and they write a word completely backwards is it scored correctly?
tyylee - Kate, how do the children react to being pulled and tested the first day of school?
kinderkate - There is a reading recovery site that has some parent letters, as well as forms you can download and use on computer ( for comparing test scores, etc.) but I don't have URL.
Mary/PA - Sue, I haven't but may this year. I have to find something to get the parents more involved.
DK - I am new here. Does anyone have a new list of leveled books?
Dux - Off topic, but has anyone heard of districts throwing out RR this year?
Dux - A new list is due out soon, I hear.
tyylee - The suggestion about pre written letters said that you should start with a general introduction letter, then one about roaming, then one about beginning reading and how to help, then one with some simple prompts they could use, etc.
MSG - Is anyone familiar with Power Start or Jump Start strategies?
Sue/TN - We started our testing the second day. K teachers gave 4 parts of OS in April. We retested the bottom third. They reacted fine
kinderkate - No problem, tyylee, because they are the ones who were at our school the year before. I work in a lot of classrooms when not doing RR and have duty every morning so most kids know me.
kinderkate - Not me, MSG.
tyylee - They said they sent these home every week or two or whenever the child had progressed to the next level or strategy.
MSG - There is a site for form letters and helpful rr forms
Mary/PA - backwards words are not scored correctly for WV - HSiW is a different matter though
MSG - would you like the web site Mary/PA?
Mary/PA - MSG, of course!
kinderkate - Again - the letters sound great if you have English speakers and/or responsive parents. I have found students need RR for numerous reasons - one being lack of parent support .
Sue/TN - speaking of leveled lists, does anyone know of a list that levels trade books such as Scholastic Hello Readers or School Zone books? Also would like to know more about Power Start...
Dux - Some one on the listserve said the charlotte,nc district just discontinued the program over the summer.
tyylee - We were told that we should count a word correct if the letters were backward and that it did not make another word but not if the whole word was backwards.
kinderkate - HSiW, mary?
sue - Sue- check the chatboard, there was site listed a little while ago
Mary/PA - Hearing Sounds in Words
DK - I have conversion for guided reading and I use that for leveling Scholastic books
kinderkate - I don't know about those, Sue, but Troll bookclub will send you a list of RR levels for some of their books, especially the First Start Easy Readers.
rrguru - I think that's hearing sounds in words, but how can that be scored correctly if its backwards
Mary/PA - I've been to that site many times, but I guess I messed the letters
Mary/PA - I will check it out for sure
DK - I wish there was a site that a person could type in a title and get the level.
Sue/TN - Thanks, sue...Where are you from? that the list in the Matching Books to 'Readers book?
Mary/PA - In HSiW the backwards word it scored -1 unless the backwards word is a completely different word like dog backwards is god
Dux - Some publishers sites do give you levels
tyylee - Try also some of the book companies publish their own lists.
didi(Aus) - Thanks for the great ideas. I'll look into the videoing and the sticker chart. It's class time . We are not allowed to use the levels put on by publishers
Sue/TN - Thanks Kinderkate...I'll try to get in touch with Troll.
Dux - The publishers list the Reading Recovery levels
DK - I am from WI and yes it is the matching books to readers.
Mary/PA - If the child writes vah for have, he gets 3-1 for that word
kinderkate - We only use the levels by publishers that are sanctioned by RR.
jaycie - can anyone suggest some writing prompts, so I can get the kids to writing on some interesting topics
Mary/PA - Am I making sense?
kinderkate - Are you talking about Word Vocab or Dictation, Mary?
Dux - The publishers list the Reading Recovery levels-Wright, Rigby
didi(Aus) - Have to go see you next time
Mary/PA - jaycie - If you ask them something about the rr book, they can often come up with a sentence
tyylee - No Mary, I don't understand what you are saying. We only score the word as 1 point not a two number system. Explain please.
Dux - A response from the story they just read
kinderkate - That is the hardest part with some kids, jaycie. I try to start a conversation with a student on the way to lesson. Sometimes the child will say something then and I'll say that's a good story, you can write it later.
Mary/PA - The word have would have 3 points in HSiW, if the child had all of the correct letters, but out of order, you minus 1 of the three points
kinderkate - Yes, Mary, and other times I go back to the familiar book in the same way. This especially works well with ELL's as they are more familiar with the sentence structure of a book they have read several times.
denise/3/nj - I was wondering if you have any suggestions for me as a classroom tchr. I want to use reading records more often but last year I found it difficult with all of the children present. How do you do it?
tyylee - Mary, I have never heard of that way of scoring. Did it come from the Clay book?
Dux - It's in the guide book where Clay talks about HSIW scoring
kinderkate - That is very difficult, denise, and not one that we deal with as we meet with students one on one in RR.
rrguru - Jaycie I try to keep a genuine conversation going with the child from the moment I get them for our lessons and chose the most memorable topic to write about.
Mary/PA - tyylee, yes, how do you score the dictation part if the child has the letters out of order?
Mary/PA - Maybe I'm all mixed up, I'll have to look at it again
kinderkate - How many running records would you like to do daily?
tyylee - Denise, in Guided reading we have the other children in the group reading aloud but quietly from their familiar books while we take a running record on one child. It sounds noisy but it works. I sometimes put up a folder between the child reading to me and the rest of the group.
denise/3/nj - I have 20 students with me all day.
kinderkate - I think we are mixing up the dictation test with the word vocabulary test.
kinderkate - And they are third grade, denise?
rrguru - Exactly Kinderkate, I am referring to the writing vocabulary test
denise/3/nj - Yes, Do you ever tape record them and score it later?
Dux - I probably confused the issue-I meant dictation instead of HSIW
Sue/TN - isn't dictation and hsiw one and the same???
Mary/PA - Yes, for WV a backwards word is not scored as correct. But in HSiW a point is taken away for sounds out of order. Is that correct?
rrguru - Does anyone know the dates for the Dallas Reading Recovery conference
Mary/PA - Yes, dictation and HSiW is the same thing
rrguru - Yes Sue they are the same, but wv is not .
kinderkate - lol - now i get it. Dictation = HSIW. However, I thought mary was talking about the word WISH being written backwards (HSIW).
Mary/PA - rrguru, no I don't. I entered a suggestion at the RR Site asking that they include the dates for all the conferences, not just the OH one, I hope that they do it
kinderkate - Oh, I REALLY do need this vacation LOL>
tyylee - Kate, LOL reminds me of the first time I saw 'cus
rrguru - Yes Sue they are the same, but wv is not .
tyylee - It took me a long time to understand that they meant cut up sentence.
Mary/PA - Oh my! how easily it is to become confused! Kinderkate, that is quite a good laugh!
kinderkate - Or RAK??
Brenda - The Conference in Dallas is Nov. 15 and 16
Mary/PA - How many folks know the difference between RR and rr?
kinderkate - The CA conference is in March - and Marie Clay will be there.
tyylee - Mary, not I, do tell.
tyylee - I suppose rr is running record?
Mary/PA - How many of you have been told that we have to get the kids out sooner? 15 weeks is the goal
Mary/PA - RR= Reading Recovery, rr= running record
rrguru - we have to start with our children within the first two weeks of school
tyylee - Unless they change things this year we were told that every child deserves twenty weeks but we should strive to get the job done in less.
kinderkate - 15 weeks??????? where did you hear that mary?
Mary/PA - Our new TL is telling us that that is the goal.
kinderkate - We are asked to try for sooner to extend time for second round, but I haven't heard the 15 weeks.
Mary/PA - We still have to give the kids the full program, but we have to try harder to get them out sooner
tyylee - I think I heard something about that at the Ohio conference but can't remember who said it.
kinderkate - OH, man - I hope that news doesn't hit here, mary. How many weeks do you have all together in a year. I 'think' we have 38 weeks.
Mary/PA - I guess that our average # of weeks is too high
Mary/PA - We have 36
Mary/PA - That's why the 20 weeks doesn't make sense
kinderkate - Last year I took 5 kids first round. One got out in 16, the other 4 took from 18 to 20 weeks.
tyylee - Don't you find that the second round children make quicker progress and can get out sooner?
Mary/PA - tyylee, not always
kinderkate - Well, they seem to think the second round should get out faster because they have had more time for classroom instruction - BUT - they need to get to a higher level.
tyylee - We are fully implemented in our building and most of the second round children are able to make more accelerated progress than the first round children. Of course, there are always those who don't.
kinderkate - Sometimes the 2d round kids do get out sooner, especially if they are in my literacy groups in the beginning of the year. But very few of you have that option as you have classrooms when you are not with program kids.
Mary/PA - We need to do some serious work in our regular classrooms. The kids are still doing worksheets and workbooks for most of their reading classes - little real reading so they are very low - I have second rounders coming in at levels 2 - 5, it sure take a lot to get them to level 16 - 18
Sue/TN - just want to thank all of you for all the valuable info as my I ...and the other 6 at our school get started. We're the first RR in West TN!!k-3 school with over 1100 students...15 first grades!!! We will do lit groups in afternoon..Arkansas Model that Linda Dorn developed. Thanks again.
kinderkate - OK all - question here - fully implemented at our school means one RR teacher to every 2 first grade classrooms. Is it the same for you?
rrguru - I think our school may have made a big mistake in that they have stopped the literacy groups and the RR teachers take eight children a day.
kinderkate - Wow rrguru - where are you? Sometimes I think I'd rather do that.
rrguru - Sue/TN , I was partially trained by Linda Dorn, are you using the apprenticeship in literacy book?
tyylee - We started Literacy Groups last year and they have made a difference in the progress of our students, especially second round. We are a very low school so we have one RR teacher per first grade classroom in order to reach all the children who need help.
Mary/PA - We will have 2 RRTs in each school this year for the first time in 8 years! I sure hope that it makes a difference
Mary/PA - We don't have literacy groups. Don't know if we ever will
rrguru - You are very fortunate tyylee. we now have 6 RRT's and all of our teachers k-4 have been trained in ELLA and ELF
Mary/PA - Well, I have to go now. Thank you all for coming and I hope to see you all next time as well. Spread the word and bring a friend. We seem to always find something to talk about :o)
kinderkate - ELLA? ELF? We've been trained in ELIC? are they similar?
Sue/TN - rrguru...yes we are using Apprenticeship as our "Bible".. Three first grade classrooms were chosen to set up true literacy classrooms this year. A lit coach from Arkansas,...trained by Linda D. has spent 2 days with them so far. We hope the lit groups help. OUr Kindergartens haven't done interactive writing much before. They are going to egin to do that to some extent too.
kinderkate - One thing I have found with our 2d round kids - they CAN write. Our teachers are VERY good with that and the kids love it.
Mary/PA - Good night to all, have a good week!
rrguru - I'm sure they are the same Ella is an acronym fro Early literacy learning in Arkansas, and ELf is effective literacy for 2-4th grade
kinderkate - Can we get the full title of that book, SUE?
rrguru - Is your coach Linda Haynie?
DK - Anyone familiar with ERE Early Reading Empowerment?
Pamela - Hello
Sue/TN - kinderkate..Apprenticeship in Literacy by Linda Dorn..It's real new
kinderkate - tyylee - one rr teacher per class? WHat is class size there?
Sue/TN - Does anyone know anything about Power Start...or something like that??Heard it mentioned earlier
rrguru - The authors of Apprentiship in Literacy are Linda Dorn, Cathy French, and Tammy Jones.
kinderkate - Does the dorn book talk about what to do in literacy groups? small groups?
kinderkate - I haven't come across power start sue.
rrguru - Absolutely, it also tells you how to set up centers and implement all components of a balanced literacy program
tyylee - We have about eighteen to twenty per class but lots and lots of ins and outs, sometimes up to fifty percent per classroom. We try to get our children up to average for the school corp. since they all have to take the same state test. We are the only school in the district with that rate of children to teachers.