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Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net.
tyylee - Good evening, Mary. Do we have a topic for tonight?
Mary/PA - We have no set topic for tonight. We can chat about any Reading Recovery concern/s that you have.
Mary/PA - I made a copy of the selection matrix that we use at our site for selecting our first round children - http://teachers.net/mary/select_matrix.htm
Mary/PA - I've mentioned it several times and it seems as though it's not well known or used, so I thought I'd make a copy so that you others can see what I'll talking about.
tyylee - I have a child at 8 weeks that still doesn't know more than a few words and gets frustrated easily. We are only in level three but she gets frustrated if the book doesn't follow a set pattern. She can write two letter words sometimes but anything more than that are problematic. Any thoughts or recommendations?
Mary/PA - Can she say words slowly? Is she in boxes?
Mary/PA - Have you had her push the two letter words that she does know into boxes to help her understand the process?
Mary/PA - Does she make any links from her Alphabet Book?
tyylee - She hears the first sound and sometimes the last sound but nothing medial. She can sometimes tell me the letter but doesn't remember how to form it. I have been reading the section on 'when it is hard to remember' but progress is extremely slow. I had her push known words earlier but not recently, I'll try that again.
Mary/PA - When you have her assemble known words with Mag. Letters, does she check them slowly with her finger, eyes and mouth staying together?
Sharon - I have a child at about that level, too. Nothing much seems to be sticking with him.
tyylee - She doesn't retain from day to day and needs constant repetition. She won't remember the next day what we talked about the previous day. I think she has short and long term memory problems and a testing request in in the processing stage but probably won't be completed for quite a while yet.
Sharon - My child is also being tested. Each day we go back over the letters he doesn't know. I use magnetic letters. The number of unknown letters is getting less but it is awfully slow.
tyylee - I have been using the Mag. Letters but maybe we haven't been checking them slowly enough with our finger. She is so resistant to doing anything approaching work that it is a struggle getting her to attend to letters or the print. I know some of it is frustration over the difficulty.
tyylee - I am having difficulty
Mary/PA - Have you found any memory linking tricks for her? Like the ones Marie tells about? I have a boy who came in really low...only knew 4 letters, both Oo and Xx, that is all he knew....I've been catching memory aides and helping him learn how to use them, he is making progress, in 5 weeks he now knows 26 letters and a few words. It's coming...
tyylee - I have been having difficulty 'keeping it easy' and still having expectations of learning taking place.
tyylee - What kinds of memory aides? We are using the alphabet book and that seems to help. I have tried word cards but that hasn't been very successful.
Sharon - I saw a tape at my last Continuing Contact meeting. She was going back over words but it would apply to letters. She had the child trace it with her hand, then write with chalk, and then with the water pen. Maybe she needs to do the same letter many different ways.
didi(Aus) - Mary that sounds great, is that only in the 2 min M&B time?
Mary/PA - I find that we have to work hard at helping them understand the reading and writing process....they can begin to understand the process before they are actually able to do much. Many of these low kids have no idea about how reading and writing work, you have to explain and model and think out loud to help them get the idea of how it's done
Mary/PA - didi, through out the enter lesson, I draw his attention to the letters that he is learning, the letters are everywhere
Sharon - What are memory aides besides the alphabet book?
Mary/PA - With each child, it's different, for example with the child I'm talking about, he could hear the /n/ at the end of his last name, so I showed him how he could think of that when he sees the n in print and then link for the /n/ in his name to think of how to get his mouth ready, or to write the /n/ when he hears it during writing
tyylee - Mary, I printed out your Matrix but don't understand how you use it.
fishtale - Mary, thanks for the reminder re: modeling. This is my training year and I too have a hard to remember kid. Today he told me words are made of numbers. Every day is an adventure, I never know if he has retained what we talked about the day before. He has so many confusions, it's hard to know where to begin.
Mary/PA - Often we assume that they know they should and can do these little things, but they need to told that it's a good thing to do and they are allowed and supposed to do it
Mary/PA - tyylee, you locate the child's selection score on the matrix by looking at the dictation score and the CAP score, then you rank the kids by that number....where the two scores intersect
tyylee - Oh, I see now. We have never used a form like this one. Where did your district come up with this idea? We look at Stanines for the different tests, especially letter ID, Dictation, and CAP.
Sharon - I was disconnected and had to refresh to get the page back. what matrix are you talking about?
Mary/PA - years ago we looked at the stanines, but our leaders were told that that's not the best way, Our TLs were given that matrix at one of their meetings and we have used it now a about 3 years, maybe more....time flies for me and I have a hard time keeping up
Mary/PA - it was developed in 97
tyylee - Do you consider scores in the other areas of the test?
Mary/PA - It's the selection matrix that we use when selecting first round children, I made a copy here - http://teachers.net/mary/select_matrix.htm
Mary/PA - tyylee, I look and the scores from all, I sort the kids by each, but it usually ends up that that matrix really does find the most needy
tyylee - Did this matrix come from your state RR or the National? I haven't heard about it here or at National Conferences. I will try it along with other ways the next time. Does it work for second round children also?
Mary/PA - Sharon, what week are you in your lessons?
Sharon - I am in week 8.
Mary/PA - We don't use it for second round, I don't know if it would work
tyylee - Sharon, what levels are your children on?
Mary/PA - I'm only in week 8 with one of my kids, week 6 with another and week 7 with my other six kids
Sharon - From level 3 to level 5
Mary/PA - Mine are on levels, 9, 6, 5 and 4
Sharon - What is your range of levels?
tyylee - Mine are on five, four, four, three.
Mary/PA - I have 8 kids
Sharon - I have six kids.
kkhull - Just signed on. What matrix was being discussed?
tyylee - Mary, do you miss your Kindergarten that you used to teach? Would you recommend full time RR?
Mary/PA - one on 9, two on 6, two on 4 two on 4 and one on 5...does that add up
kkhull - I have 4 RR students. One just moved in Week 5 - AAAgghh. So I have 2 at level 4, one at level 5 and one new one in Roaming. The first 3 are in Week 6.
Mary/PA - I'm having a good year, I don't feel so over stretched, I can concentrate on one job...it's better for me
Sharon - I missed the part about how to use the matrix. I printed it out but I can't scroll back to where you explained how to use it.
Mary/PA - it's at - http://teachers.net/mary/select_matrix.htm
kkhull - I think I'd agree with you Mary. Half my day is spent in the classroom with Title I Grades 2 and 3. I'm also in 2 buildings which is what really is stressful. I like going into grades 2 and 3. I just wish I didn't have to travel.
tyylee - kkhull, your school sounds like mine. I have already had two of my first four children move and another is suppose to be gone next week. It is frustrating to keep having to start over. Of course, my lowest child who is having the most problems is the one who hasn't moved.
Sharon - How do you use the matrix?
Mary/PA - you find the selection score by finding where the child's CAP and dictation scores intersect, then you rank the kids according to that number...the lowest number indicates the most needy child
didi(Aus) - sorry had to go on yard duty what is the matrix
Mary/PA - http://teachers.net/mary/select_matrix.htm
Mary/PA - we use it at our site for selecting first round children
kkhull - Any creative ideas that aren't in the guidebook for those children who have such a difficult time remembering letter names?
Mary/PA - I wondered where you went, didi
tyylee - kk. I recently rebound our ABC books so that the letters are in a different order now. It makes it more of a reading task since they can't just say the ABC's in order to get to the next letter. Of course it would not be for every child, only one who is fairly secure with the letter names.
didi(Aus) - I have one girl W14 L10/11 she started at 2 and went really well then hit a brick wall. I pulled her back from 12. Couldn't cope with a lot of text in a block.
Sharon - I gave the letter ID test again. Then I put magnetic letters in a ziploc bag for each unknown letter. We go over them everyday before we do the ABC book. They are getting better.
Mary/PA - kkhull, I just observe each child very closely, and make note of things that I notice, like sometimes a child knows something about a letter, knows it in a word or hears the sound, but doesn't know how to make it or its name, but does know something about it...I use that to build upon
didi(Aus) - sorry about my bad tying. She's growing more confident now and I thought I take turns reading with her for familiar reading today.
tyylee - Didi, have you tried a card with a window so that the child can only see one line at a time.
Mary/PA - didi, did you try letting her use a note card under each line of text for a time to get used to all the text on a page?
kkhull - Mary - did you develop this matrix? I've never seen it before. (I just took a look now.)
Mary/PA - Sometimes that helps them deal with it better
didi(Aus) - I haven't tried that Tylee but I have given her a plastic piece she keeps under the line but still gives vision of the next line.
Mary/PA - kkhull, no, our TL gave it to us, she got it at a TL meeting
Mary/PA - I don't know who developed it
Mary/PA - Somebody pretty smart
tyylee - My training year we were given a card with a window cut out to use with children who were overwhelmed by lots of print on a page.
Sharon - Have you seen the EZ readers from Reallygoodstuff. com? They have a transparent colored area that allows you to see just one line. Return sweep ones are available, too. They allow two lines to be seen.
didi(Aus) - I'll give that a try. She love Oxford tree books but finds PM's a trial.
Mary/PA - Sharon, I haven't seen them, are they low level books?
tyylee - Sharon, we just ordered some of those. They come with different colored windows and different sized windows where one can see one line or more than one line.
Sharon - No, they are similar to bookmarks with the colored transparent part that lets the child see just one line at a time.
kkhull - I started offering the EZ readers to some of my students and they love them. It helps keep them focused and the amount of text isn't so overwhelming. They're basically bookmarks with a colored overlay - either blue or yellow at the top so text can be seen. I like the return sweep ones fluency and early stages of reading. Parents came with their Gr. 1,2, and 3 children and we used poetry to demonstrate.
Mary/PA - We have CC tomorrow, one of our topics will be the hard to accelerate
Sharon - My kids really liked them when I taught first grade so now I use them with my RR kids that have trouble with too much text.
kkhull - Sorry about last post. Just mentioned that we did a parent presentation on fluency this evening. Lots of fun.
tyylee - Didi, I like the Oxford books myself and agree that a child who is overwhelmed by lots of print does well with them. They have a good story line, plenty of work to do but not much print on a page.
Sharon - That sounds like a good parent meeting.
Mary/PA - We haven't at a topic set for the last few meetings, do we want to set one for next time?
didi(Aus) - Do they just come to a time when they discard them themselves
Mary/PA - If so, do you have any ideas?
tyylee - Mary, we had Cc last week and that was our topic too. Are the topics nation wide?
Sharon - My first graders quit using them on their own when they didn't need them.
Sharon - That is our next CC topic.
Mary/PA - tyylee, I don't think so, our TL asks us what we want for topics...that's one we asked for
didi(Aus) - That sounds a good topic or to look at how to maintain accelerated progress
fishtale - I would like to learn more about that too.
kkhull - Do you have any time in your schedules to observe your RR students in their classroom reading groups?
tyylee - Must go. Night all! Thanks, Mary.
Sharon - No, we don't have time to observe in the classroom without canceling class.
Mary/PA - didi, maintaining accelerated progress seems to slow down at the higher levels with kids who have limited language skills, seems they lack the language understanding needed to keep the meaning flowing....this is so difficulty for me to find ways to help these kids.
didi(Aus) - No KK but how was it for you
Mary/PA - kkhull, I do this year, I can just use lesson time to observe, I haven't yet done so, but I will be doing it soon
didi(Aus) - We have talked about children hitting the brick wall at around L10/11 in our CC meetings
kkhull - Same here. I get frustrated because I want to see how they apply what they're learning in RR. We are having a first grade literacy mtg. after school tomorrow with the principal, first grade teachers, rdg. specialists, and instructional support teacher to talk about RR students and other first graders who are making slow progress.
didi(Aus) - I think the lack of having heard stories to know book language is a barrier.
Sharon - Good night. See you next time
Mary/PA - didi, I totally agree
didi(Aus) - see you Sharon
fishtale - Time for me to go. Thanks.
Mary/PA - Well, I have to go, the dog is going nuts, he has to go, if you know what I mean...see you all next time
didi(Aus) - Thanks for all your help I've missed getting on lately.
kkhull - Good night. Thanks.
