Join the Reading Recovery Mailring listed in the English Center at the
Teacher Mailring Center
http://www.teachers.net/mailrings/
Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net. Tonight's topic is Making It Easy to Learn.
Doug - I think things are easy when we stay at the 90/10 rule...stick to a theme and echo it and keep the child within the ZPG.
Mary/PA - OK, what's 90/10?
Doug - I find that if I have more than 1 teaching point the lesson goes long and the lesson hence gets frustrating and not easy
tyylee - Echoing across the lesson, let's talk about some ways to do that.
Mary/PA - do you mean 90% accuracy? What's the 10?
Doug - sometimes with hard to teach kids i fall into the trap of spending more time on V and less time on meaning
Doug - mary yes
Doug - 1:1 matching can be followed in all parts of the lesson
Mary/PA - Your focus is what you should be stressing across all of the lesson, add lots of support for the other things - if getting the mouth ready, searching beginning V is your focus than you should see more prompts for it.
Mary/PA - I have to watch myself to be sure that I'm sticking to my focus. Too often I'm expecting the child to orchestrate all of the strategies too soon, I mean the child isn't ready to do all of that yet, so I have to be sure to get in there and support for the strategies that are not my focus for the lesson
tyylee - Two of my children are in Level 5 and it is a balancing act to teach them how to sound across words and still use the meaning as the first strategy.
janice - How early is to early to begin to prompt and teach to visual cues at the beginning of words
janice - I read recently that visual should not be taught before level 5
Mary/PA - janice, I don't know if there is ever a time that is too early. It all depends upon the child
janice - that is the premise that I had always gone on
Doug* - Mary- that is so true
janice - I guess I was just confirming my knowledge
Mary/PA - janice, I think that should have said that level 5 will be very difficult if the child is not doing some searching of the V cues
Doug* - janice- ideally I think we want a balance of all three cues, fluency and ultimately enjoyment
janice - I agree with that -
Mary/PA - As soon as 1-1 is under control, you should start getting the three cues going
janice - visual alone will not be enough
dot - how can I be sure that a known is a known?
Justjoy - Hi all. I realized today after my Tl came for a visit I was doing too much. Why is it so hard?
tyylee - I start having the child GMR with the initial sounds as soon as they know several sounds.
janice - for the first time in the 5 years that I have been doing RR, I have a child who's behavior is a real problem
Doug* - dot- once a month do a writing spree
Mary/PA - Select one at a time, but don't put any one of them off for very long. By level 3 there needs to be some searching of all cues for actual reading to be taking place. You want to be sure that the child is not memorizing the text
janice - any suggestions for stubbornness and refusal to work
Mary/PA - dot, known in reading or writing?
Doug* - janice- last year I had a game player...try letting him/her choose the pen color, choose the books to take home, or even heaven forbid, reward desired behavior (stickers, candy)
Mary/PA - janice, make it very easy for the child, the stubbornness is most likely because of the fear of failure. The child has not been successful, so it's easier to not try
dot - how about reading-consistent accuracy? writing- a spree with prompting or voluntary words?
Mary/PA - Find text that he can read with little support so that he can feel successful
tyylee - Janice, try having the child come in and do a lesson during recess, it makes you lose some of your time but it usually motivates mine to work harder next time.
janice - This child has the ability and is doing very well at level 5 and probably should be higher
janice - I have tried all of those things doug
Doug* - dot- use the words from the weekly vocabulary chart...skip writing portion for the day and do the spree
janice - we lost recess today and tomorrow, I threaten to take away computer special time
dot - sorry, my questions about knowns in reading and writing were in response to Mary and Doug
janice - I really think she is playing a game - it has almost become a war of wills
Doug* - dot- the writing spree is even described in the guide book but I don't have it with me
dot - i'm working hard with the GB and finding new things each time I read, thanks
Kay - How do I make it easy for a child who is not visually attending to print?
Mary/PA - In reading, frame a word between your fingers and ask the child what the word is. This tells you if the word is a known
Mary/PA - Kay, make sure that he is pointing to the beginning if each word and teach him how to get his mouth ready
Kay - I've done that Mary, thanks, she can read a word or letter one minute and in another part of the lesson she's forgotten
Doug* - dot- checking on known and unknown words is an early strategy described after directionality and 1:1..I think its under locating responses
didi(aus) - Sorry. Kay what level is the child
Mary/PA - Hi didi, I didn't see you come in
Kay - She's lesson 27, week 7, and still not doing a Level 2 successfully
Mary/PA - Kay, have you been using the scale of knowing? We discussed that a bit last meeting.
janice - I have one like that - I made some flash cards with (Is, is) in different sizes colors and shapes
janice - I found that she was not flexible with what she knew
didi(aus) - Does she rely on structure
tyylee - I just read in the Guidebook that you might have to color the initial letter of some words to help the child attend to the print more. I tried it with the highlighter tape and it seemed to help somewhat.
Mary/PA - It spells out what to do a each stage for letters and words to get them into the known consistently level
Kay - I've made lots of books with her, and will begin writing books that she's dictating
cathie/NC/2 - can I ask a question about running records and the DRA?
Kay - Thanks tyylee, that might work
janice - There is highlighting tape that you can buy to put over the first letter
Mary/PA - Have the child build the words with magnetic letters offering different levels of support as the word moves closer to known
Doug* - mary- so keeping it easy.......what is the secret?
vcad - How do you get a child who has several knowns to not totally visually attend to new words. I have prompted looking at picture and beginning the word but his biggest problems come in the RR. I do teaching points continuously on this.
cathie/NC/2 - Mary , can you give me some help with the DRA?
tyylee - Also, staying with the same fluency word for several days even when you think it is a known will help the slow to learn child retain it better.
Mary/PA - Doug, I'm learning (after 8 years of this stuff) that it's the level of support and the different kinds of support that is offered by the teacher
Mary/PA - Don't try to fix everything at once.
Mary/PA - In these early lessons, work on one thing at a time and get it going before adding to the child's plate
Mary/PA - Pick your focus and texts very carefully
Doug* - mary- very good points
Mary/PA - vcad, does the child know how to get his mouth ready?
Mary/PA - cathie, I can't help with the DRA, it's been a long time since I've seen it and I never did use it
tyylee - Only one or two new words or ideas to learn per lesson or book is important when trying to keep it easy.
Mary/PA - vcad, can you state your problem again? I didn't get it the first time
Mary/PA - Are you saying that the child ignores V during the running record?
Doug* - vcad- just to interject a little...ignoring v sometimes indicates a need to cross-check
vcad - No, he is visual searching w/initial consonants but new text results in tolds during RR.
Doug* - vcad- he needs to take initiative?
Mary/PA - It is also a monitoring problem - monitoring should be the focus of a few lessons. Tell the child that you want him to be sure that every thing looks right today, that's his job today
Kay - vcad have you prompted him to give it a try
Mary/PA - vcad, so he is not making any attempts during the rr?
tyylee - Sometimes hearing the teacher reread the sentence and make the initial sound will help the child think of the word and will help the child to know what to do the next time he/she has problems.
Mary/PA - Sounds like he needs to have a plan of what to do when he comes to a tricky part
Mary/PA - Teach he exactly what you want him to do when he gets stuck
Mary/PA - Tell him that you will help him, but first he has to do _______ and if it doesn't help him, you will
vcad - Yes my prompt is Try It instead of TTA and then he will give an initial consonant and cross checks but that is as far as he will go. The teaching point is always look at the picture, think about the story, read it again and make it LR, SR, & makes sense. He just doesn't want to be wrong.
tyylee - Fluent reading is important for using meaning clues, perhaps the text is too hard or the child needs help phrasing when reading so that he comprehends more and can anticipate the next word better.
Kay - Tell him that if he will make the beginning sound you will be there to help with the word if he needs it
Mary/PA - I know that in the past I was assuming that the child would pick up an understanding of what I want him to do through my modeling, but now I know that some kids miss the boat here, I have to be very exact and explicit about what I want him to do.
vcad - Can you do this during a RR? & then how do you stop
didi(aus) - I've found that too Mary
Mary/PA - vcad, where is he in terms of number of lessons?
vcad - Lesson 32
Kay - tell him to keep reading and then during the teaching point go back and have him try it making the sound and you jumping in to help
vcad - I forgot Lesson 32 Level 6
Doug* - I like to ask the child what he is going to do when he comes to something tricky...its nice to hear them say what they do and then read
Mary/PA - vcad, you gradually pull back telling the child that it is his job. You have to teach the task first before you can expect him to apply the task
tyylee - You have to teach the child what you want him to do during the new book, perhaps helping him through the first time and then reading it again and letting him try things on his own. Then, hopefully when you do the RR the next day he will remember to use the strategies.
Mary/PA - vcad, how is his fluency?
Kay - Thanks everyone for the ideas
vcad - F3 & F4 He is very fluent can s/c w/o repeating to the beginning of the page.
tyylee - Some slow to learn children seem to need that second reading of the new book just to put the story line/meaning into their heads so they can be successful the next day.
pam - Is it possible that he doesn't realize that it would be better to say something that would make sense instead of saying nothing?
Mary/PA - vcad, are his eyes following the text? He doesn't have those books memorized does he?
Doug* - pam- yes....telling him that good readers.....
Mary/PA - Does he ever say "I can't remember."?
Kay - my child says I can't remember quiet often
Mary/PA - pam, that a good point. He should be saying something that makes sense
vcad - I have prompted for that response too. No he doesn't you would be amazed. I observed him reading Where is Hannah and his eyes would search the page at the same time as he was reading. The next day he read it as FR and had dropped his finger.
Mary/PA - Kay, that is usually an indication that he has been relying on memory, instead of actually reading
Mary/PA - He may not really know how to look at print
Kay - even when trying to remember letters
Mary/PA - Have you followed the steps set out in the GB for looking at print and letter work?
pam - It sounds like he needs to have more attention to print and show me _____and what is this word_____.I have a question about making it easy to learn. How can I improve on my children learning new words. It doesn't seem that they are learning them really quickly without lots of review. Any suggestions of how to make it easy?
Doug* - Mary- very possible...the difference of letter and word is critical on checking if they are right
Mary/PA - Kay, did you see the "Scale of Knowing"? They are in the transcript of our last meeting.
Kay - yes I have, we can do when it's hard to remember, and it's still hard for her to remember
Mary/PA - If you follow that plan with letters and words, you will see a big difference
Kay - My teacher leader refers to those stages all the time
tyylee - Pam, make the new word in Magnetic letters then jumble and have the child remake several times, then have the child write it on the board, then locate it several places in the book and then perhaps remake it with the MLs again.
pam - Thanks tyylee- I probably haven't used it in a variety of ways and places enough, when I am working on it
Kay - does anyone use an alphabet book for teacher the child letter sounds, not just the letters
Mary/PA - pam, follow the steps in the "Scale of Knowing" it really does help. There are 7 stages. You move each letter or word up a stage when the child is ready. The kids can learn at least one word a day with that. It helps them to learn how to learn
Kay - oops, an alphabet book for teaching the letter sounds, not just letter names
tyylee - Kay, I refer to the ABC book frequently for sounds. " What do you have in your book for that letter/sound?" Also we reread the ABC book saying A, a, apple, and then make the sound.
pam - I'm still trying to work on it--stages of knowing.
Mary/PA - Kay, we are being told to not use the letter books and alphabet book as much as wee did before. We should get to the letter sound during reading and writing
tyylee - Mary, I would like to explore echoing across the lesson a little more next time.
Kay - Thanks Mary, this was my first visit to this site, everyone was a big help, I'll see you next time
vcad - What are some objectives that would be addressed in a text book analysis?
Mary/PA - vcad, is that a Reading Recovery question?
Mary/PA - What do you mean "text book"
Mary/PA - Do you mean what do you look at when selecting a text for the child's new book each day?
Mary/PA - For a book introduction, think about your focus and what the child can do and what you want him to learn to do. Pick a text that addresses these
Mary/PA - or I should say a text that best fits the needs
Mary/PA - Well, I should get going. Thanks all for coming. Good night
