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Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net. Tonight's topic is "Echoing Across The Lesson."
Mary/PA - A question for the group - How do you echo across the lesson with a focus or a particular concern?
Katie - Any ideas on helping a student begin to process information?
snowwhite - Help me. "What is echo across the lesson?"
Doug - I find that if I focus on processing (searching, sc, sm, cross-checking) then I can echo it in reading and writing
Mary/PA - Doug, we try to plan for this, but usually the best echoing occurs through keen observation and grabbing the teachable moments based up the child's responses and behaviors
Mary/PA - But we have to be careful to not grab too many things, and try to stick with the focus
Mary/PA - I keep in mind a particular behavior that I'm looking to strengthen in a child and bring it into play as often as possible in all parts of the lesson
Katie - echoing across the lesson is trying to connect all parts of the lesson with a main focus
Mary/PA - Strategies should always be our top priority
Doug - Mary- yes focus is very important...one of the things that our TL asks us as we watch BTG, is :can anyone find the focus of the lesson?
Louise - I tutored a student tonight, and made a running record. She read very choppily, and yet had pretty good comprehension. It surprised me, and reminded me how individually we have to look at students.
Mary/PA - While strategies are our main focus, do you ever echo a particular word across the lesson, one that the child is learning?
Katie - I'd like to see us get a little more specific, we're too general
Doug - Mary- i will follow a word at early levels...especially levels 1-4
Mary/PA - Have the child write the word in HF practice, locate it in the texts and write it in the sentence?
snowwhite - Do all the teachers in this room work through centers (stations) and use those to instruct? Is that when you do the running records? I hope I am not changing the subject. I don't mean to.
Katie - Mary, today, we were working on the ing ending. I did try to help the child see the ending using magnetic letters and also see it in the books we were reading
Doug - mary- it also depends on what was learned on WT and WV on OS
Katie - Snowwhite, RR teachers work individually with students, not within the confines of a classroom, so we don't have centers when we do our running records
snowwhite - Doug, I don't know what WT WV and OS are
snowwhite - I see, Katie.
Doug - subtests on the observation survey
snowwhite - Thanks, Doug.
Doug -
Mary/PA - I'm having a bit of a time with two of my kids - when they search V, they keep trying to do it letter by letter - my focus has been seeing had hearing chunks, we M&B and frame and all that, but when at difficulty, they revert to that dang letter by letter thingI wonder where it is coming from, any ideas?
Doug - mary- you mean going tttt on the?
tyylee - Mary, sometimes having two small pieces of paper available for the child to use when searching for chunks is a helpful reminder for the child who tries to sound letter by letter.
Doug - mary if clay is right about using the largest chunks possible then I usually go for meaning and then will mask...is that what you were asking?
Mary/PA - Doug, not so much that, but for example - 'stay' they will go s-t-a-y, making the single sound for each letter - no blending the sounds together or searching for the chunks
Mary/PA - It's driving me up the wall!
Prunelly - Something that is really helping me is to keep a "Scope and Sequence" handy to see what the classroom teachers are working on in Saxon Phonics (such as suffix -ing). It's easier to make links in my RR books when I know the child has been exposed to it in the classroom.
Doug - mary - is the child using synthetic phonics in the class or perhaps hooked on phonics at home?
Mary/PA - Doug, yes, that's what I've been teaching for, but when on their own (if I don't prompt) they don't do it
Roxie - Hi everyone. Mary-I know how frustrating the letter by letter sounding is. After working for weeks on chunks and word parts my sweet little girl told me she was "sounding it out."
Mary/PA - There's some snag here that I'm not seeing - my other two are doing this without having to think about it, but these other two are really challenging me on this
baribrooks - Does anyone one have a tactful way to tell classroom teachers not to "sound out" with their kids?
Doug - mary- in taking apart words in reading there is an activity called cumulative analysis...does this help or hinder the child?
tyylee - Try teacher modeling, "when I see this word I see ST-Ay and then say it slowly for them asking them to repeat it that way. Sometimes when they hear you do it often enough they will take on the behavior.
Mary/PA - Doug, that could be, I know that one of the kid's father is having her sound things out like that, but I'd think that after all this time, I'd be winning, but I'm not
Doug - baribrooks- tell them to try to evenly use the 3 cues unless we want someone who just uses visual as a result of what we pay attention to
snowwhite - Reading Recovery teachers prefer for classroom teachers to use chunks? My children are doing very well with Saxon Phonics and the "sounding out" (uncoding - if you will). Do you think we should use rimes instead?
Roxie - baribrooks-try giving them other strategies to use, and explain how inefficient "sound out" really is.
Rose - we have a program called the SFA and we use sounding out but we must model, model model and I think the kids are starting to get it. So I would have to say modeling is important.
Doug - mary- does he have enough writing vocabulary words to use analogy?
Mary/PA - Doug, like I said, they can do it when I prompt, but don't when I don't - they are not taking on the responsibility
Mary/PA - When I hold back, it doesn't happen
baribrooks - This is my first year of teaching reading recovery. I see several of my kids not taking responsibility for small skills they seem ready for
Doug - mary- after you prompt do you have him reread the problem sentence? Just throwing out ideas...perhaps you need to do whole part whole more
Mary/PA - Yes, the WV is in the 30 - 40 range for both - I just can't figure why they are resisting
Mary/PA - Doug, yes, or in the case of the rr, I make it a TP, but the next time they are at difficulty, they act like they've never done it before
Doug - mary- I was observed by my tl today and I thought my kid had 1:1 issues but rather she uses syntactic information...can check herself but does not know what to do after she locates the problem
baribrooks - I know teaching words isn't the focus but for the two that had only their name for written vocab. would you say its important to teach a few anchor words (?
Doug - perhaps with rr kids we need to go back, go back and go back
Mary/PA - Doug, I've thought about that and have asked the child what she could do to help herself, that's a prompt and that does then cause her to think about what to do and then she can do it - but doesn't think of it without my prompt
Mary/PA - I'm wondering if it's just going to take longer with these two
Mary/PA - We started week 10 today
baribrooks - what level are your kids reading at Mary?
Doug - mary yes...and worse I think I overworked the how do you know thing?
JO - Try setting back and doing a running records on the the more recent familiar books and then you can discuss what strategies they aren't doing.
Mary/PA - baribrooks, yes, we have to get those HF words into the known
baribrooks - what is happening when you now ask them, doug?
baribrooks - so...do veteran RR teachers teach HF words in the known?
baribrooks - I was told to sit on my hands and not teach a THING
Doug - baribrooks- she can notice but does not appear to verbalize her problem solving actions??????She is a hard to teach child
baribrooks - none of mine really could either, doug...so I just pointed out what I thought they were doing to problem solve...now they point out the same things
Mary/PA - JO - the recent fam books don't produce much reading work - their memory for text is too good - once the problem is worked out, and read again the next day, they remember and don't have to work - OH, do you suppose that is where the problem is? Could they have too good of a memory for text and are relying on that too much?
Roxie - Doug - when I ask them "how do you know" they only seem to have two answers: "I looked at the beginning sound" and "I used my picture clue." I can't seem to get them to use other strategies, such as "I saw the chunk" or "I thought about the story.
Doug - roxie- do you ever do anything else?
Doug - I meant that as a prompt to get further searching...LOL
Mary/PA - baribrooks, you misunderstood me, we DON'T teach the works in RAK, but when lessons start, we work to get the HF words into the child's known list of words
baribrooks - Mary, I have a student with a great memory for text...he relied on it heavily in early levels and didn't pick up on the strategies he needed...consequently he is totally frustrated now with harder text
baribrooks - thanks for the clarification, mary
Doug - mary- we never did find out...how can your child learn to go across independently with problem words?
JULIE/OHIO - Hi don't mean to interrupt I'm new to RR (still training) I'm having trouble getting kids to look for initial visual cues
Jo - You can stay out of the lesson more on his new books and see what strategies he uses.
Mary/PA - Doug, I don't understand your ?
Mary/PA - go across what?
baribrooks - When this student gets stumped he always says...I don't remember what that says...I tell him that reading is not remembering...getting him to cue into visual has been a bear
Doug - mary- you were asking about your child...he go across words slowly s...t.....ay
JULIE/OHIO - Hi I'm new to RR and I'm trying to get kids to look for initial visual cues.........any sugg.?
Jo - To have them to look for the initial visual cues, say the word slowly and then have them to frame it. You can also predict and check.
Mary/PA - Doug, if this (letter by letter grunting and spitting instead of saying the word slowly) happens during the first reading, I stop her - if it happens during the rr, I say nothing, of course - sometimes I just give a Told - but I do make it my TP
Doug - mary- not to argue but just to get some discussion...doesn't that limit your teaching points to visual analysis and you never get to spend time on the processing?
JULIE/OHIO - How long has everyone been teaching RR?
Mary/PA - With these two girls who are giving me a run for my money, I've had the focus of taking words apart while reading, for about two weeks now - they can do it when they are sailing along nicely, but forget to do it when at difficulty, maybe that's the problem - they panic when at difficulty
JULIE/OHIO - I am not enjoying it thus far
Mary/PA - Julie, this is my 8th year
JULIE/OHIO - please tell me it gets better with time
baribrooks - yes, please tell us
Mary/PA - Julie, I know what you mean, is this your training year?
JULIE/OHIO - yes
baribrooks - close to detroit, michigan
Mary/PA - Julie, it does get better, but there will always be those kids who are hard to figure out
baribrooks - I cant wait for the annual conference...I see there is session on hard to manage RR kids
JULIE/OHIO - I just get the feeling I'm not cut-out for the job
JULIE/OHIO - Are you going to the conf. in Columbus?
Roxie - Hi Julie. This is my 7th year. It does get easier, and you start to understand everything better that during the training year. Another thing that makes it easier is that you begin to know your book collection so much better. That makes it easier to choose the best book for each child much quicker.
Mary/PA - The paper work never gets better - that's always a downer
baribrooks - I am going to the conference here in Michigan
catt - I am going to RR conference on Wed in Tx- can't wait
Roxie - No matter how many years there are always those kids that I just can't seem to reach.
baribrooks - Roxie, that does seem to be a benefit
JULIE/OHIO - I have to run but can anyone tell me if this chat is always at 9 on Mondays?
baribrooks - next one is nov 27
Doug - Julie- every other Monday...
Lori - catt, where is the conference in TX?
Roxie - Has anyone from your site made a list of books that you can find specific words in? We have lists like that, what a time saver they are, especially in early lessons.
catt - it is in dallas, at the Adams Mark Hotel
JULIE/OHIO - oh ok thanks I'm going to tell my RR training class about it
baribrooks - what a great idea, roxie...I will look into that
Mary/PA - Roxie, I've heard of lists like that, but I've never seen one - it does sound like a time saver, at lease in book selection
Doug - roxie- I have some friends who do that with books for roaming...and they use the OS known words to go from....they also grouped levels 1-3 for this...its a little different
Mary/PA - How are your kids doing Doug? What lesson or week are you on?
baribrooks - roxie...could those lists you have access to be posted anywhere?? I would love to get my hands on them
Roxie - I have 3 or 4 lists like this. They are great to use when I quickly want books with one special word in them, i.e. a spelling word they are having in their classroom.
catt - at our school, we have made books for the kids patterning high frequency words and using the digital camera to take pics of the kids with repetitive text; ex: Here is Cory. He is on the slide. etc. We've gotten a lot of mileage with that.
baribrooks - yes, that seems perfect...my kids who still only have maybe 7 words on written vocab could benefit ...I always search hard for books that use their anchors
Roxie - baribrooks-I would love to share our lists with you, but I am not sure how to post them anywhere for you to access.
Doug - week 12 level 8.....not quite a level a week...one kid sat at a 3 forever and I had to do a lot of problem solving
Mary/PA - What do we want to talk about next time? - I sent this question before, but I didn't see it come through - strange
Doug - roxie- try the remedial reading chatboard here at teachers .net....
Roxie - Level 8 sounds great! Are they all there? My highest is only just getting into 6. (I'm at week 10)
Roxie - Doug-do you mean to post those lists?
baribrooks - I am on week 9...and my kids are only on level 2-4...I am Way behind with them unfortunately
catt - i am getting excited- i have 2 that just need some 'fine tuning" and then they will be ready for disc.
Doug - mary- lets chat about using taking words apart in reading
Mary/PA - catt, what level?
Mary/PA - Doug, that sounds good to me
baribrooks - taking words apart would be great! I am just now getting to that in training
catt - they are both on 11/12 , i am moving one of them up to a 13 tomorrow
Ruthie - sounds good to me, too!
Mary/PA - catt that's great! What week are they on?
baribrooks - wow catt...level 11/12!?
Doug - bye friends.......
Roxie - catt, what level did they start at?
baribrooks - catt....did any of your kids score as low as 6 on the observational survey?
catt - one is week12 and the other is week 10. at our school we each identified and took 1 of the lowest spots during initial screening, then we tested the entire 1st grade and filled the rest of our slots 2 weeks later. it has proven to be a good move for us
catt - one began at level A- and the other at level B
Mary/PA - catt, that sounds interesting, we should talk about that sometime
Mary/PA - I have to go now. Thanks for coming tonight
Roxie - Wow! Congratulations, Catt! I am envious. You must have great classroom support.
catt - we have great coverage at our school, so we have a lot of flexibility. we have 6 rr teachers
Mary/PA - I hope to see you all next time as well, Good Night and have a great week!
Roxie - Cool! How many 1st grade classrooms?
catt - you are right roxie, i do have great classroom support- most of our 1st grade teachers are also rr trained.
baribrooks - wow...that is terrific...i am the only one at my school...and just being in training I feel less than effective
Roxie - That sounds like heaven!
Roxie - baribrooks-hang in there!! Just think where those kids would be without you!
baribrooks - I still have kids at this point who know less than 20 letters
catt - 5 classrooms in 1st grade- 3 are rr trained, but one is not currently involved, then I teach 2nd grade and we have 2 other 2nd grade and a K teacher who are all trained
Roxie - baribrooks-where are you from?
baribrooks - outside detroit...michigan
Roxie - i grew up near Detroit, in Redford Twp.
catt - we all teach 1/2 day rr and 1/2 day whole class reading, lang. arts etc. We have a math/sci specialist who co-teaches with us to allow the flexiblity to do RR
baribrooks - where do you teach now Roxie?
Roxie - I teach in Saranac, Michigan, near Grand Rapids
baribrooks - catt...that sounds like quite the place to teach!
baribrooks - are you going to the michigan conference?
baribrooks - the one in Dearborn?
catt - it is both a blessing and a curse sometimes bari!! Some days my head just spins because it is overwhelming to have duel roles!
Roxie - I'm going to the conference in Dearborn
baribrooks - I teach rr in the am and I'm the literacy specialist in the pm for the school...
baribrooks - Redford union
catt - what do you do as a literacy specialist, do you do groups?
Roxie - Tell me more about being the literacy specialist
greedycat - I am planning to attend the southeast regional conference in Greensboro, NC. Barbara Watson will be there.
baribrooks - well...this is the first year for the rr/lit.spec. position
baribrooks - I am totally feeling my way on this one...cause I have been given no job desc.
baribrooks - I taught Kdg. for 10 years at bulman
catt - interesting- this year, i am only serving 2 rr kids, then i have 3 2nd grade literacy groups that I meet with, so I am always looking for new ideas for the groups
baribrooks - I do whole class activities (modelling lessons for teachers) with the three first grades
Roxie - I also did my second 8 weeks of student teaching at Roosevelt under Karen Haltom
catt - are your teachers pretty receptive, do you have alot of good literacy support in your classrooms?
Roxie - oops, I meant that to go to baribrooks privately
baribrooks - catt...I find most teachers use my lesson for a bathroom break...
catt - that is unfortunate
baribrooks - yes...she is no longer at Roosevelt
baribrooks - it is...but for my first year...it gives me a little freedom with their classes
baribrooks - it is strange for me...
baribrooks - I taught kdg for ten years
catt - so is this your 1st year with RR, are you in training?
baribrooks - now I am supposed to move up to second and be an "expert" with no extra training other than my RR...which is a lot..but I am still simulating all that
baribrooks - assimilating, rather LOL
baribrooks - sometimes I would LIKE to simulate being an expert
catt - you sound like me, bari ! LOL
baribrooks - so yes, catt...I am in training
Roxie - I think our school is moving toward hiring a literacy coordinator. I might be interested in applying for this position, but it would mean giving up RR and my other 1/2 day position (1st-2nd grade loop)
Roxie - What do you think, bari
catt - How long have you looped with 1-2? This is my first year to loop up with my class- I love it
baribrooks - what year are you in of RR?
baribrooks - we used to loop at my old school...it was very well received
Roxie - I love it, too, Catt. This is my fifth loop, my first looping class are now 10th graders.
baribrooks - then we got a new principal and she threw out looping...it was a tragedy
Roxie - It sure lets you get to know them so much better. What I really like is when I have them in 1st grade, I also am the rr teacher that services my own room. Then I really get to know them!
catt - roxie- could you still work with at least 1 or 2 children to keep your cerification up?
catt - i like the year in 1st with rr too
baribrooks - I got moved to a new school to start my rr position...I think it would have given me a HUGE leg up had I been able to work with my old kdg. students...
Roxie - Catt, I'm not sure of your question. I do 1/2 day rr and the other 1/2 day in the classroom. Is that what you meant?
baribrooks - Roxie...do you know what the literacy coordinator role would entail?
catt - no, as a literacy coordinator
baribrooks - catt...what are the requirements to stay certified as a RR teacher anyway?
Roxie - Oh, I see what you mean, catt. That might be a good idea.
catt - I think that at 2 RR students you have to apply for a waiver, IF your school is not at full coverage. Any less than 2 is discouraged, I think, becuase they always like to you have the comparison of 2 children.
catt - If you leave rr, then say, go back a year later, you have to repeat your training year ( NO THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!)
baribrooks - training is helpful/stressful/mindboggling/tedious and A LOT OF WORK!
baribrooks - <still has homework to do tonight for class tomorrow
catt - Well- I am going to have to leave- I need to pack for RR conference, we are leaving tomorrow night! yahoo!
catt - It was fun talking to yall- I will come back again on the 27th
baribrooks - have fun, catt! nice meeting you
Roxie - Have a good time at the conference!
