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Mary/PA - Good evening. Welcome to tonight's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net. Tonight's topic is "Working With the Hard to Accelerate Students."
Alison - Mary, how are your students coming along?
Mary/PA - Most of them are doing very well. One sad thing, my highest student and his brother who is also doing very well just moved
Nicole - That's usually how it goes
Alison - Oh, the same thing is happening to me. I know how you feel.
Mary/PA - It was a surprise, Ididn't have a chance to test them before they moved.
Mary/PA - Do any of you have a Hard to Accelerate child?
Alison - My student is leaving for Mexico, Dec. 5. I just gave a 10 week OS last week. Do you think I should test her again? She's on a level 6 now.
Nicole - Is that a label or are you talking literally
Mary/PA - I doubt it.
Mary/PA - You don't want to test them too often.
Mary/PA - We don't do a 10 week OS. I wish we did, at least I'd have that.
Mary/PA - Nicole, is what a label?
Alison - That's what I thought. We had to give the OS at ten weeks, per our TL
Nicole - You capitalized hard and accelerate and I was wondering if those were terms I am unfamiliar with or were talking about children in general who are not accelerating
Mary/PA - Nicole it's a term Marie Clay uses in the GB. I guess you aren't a RRT. (Reading Recovery Teacher)
Nicole - No , I am not
Alison - I have a Hard to Accelerate child, still on level 3 at 10 weeks. She just started looking at print. Now, she has gone to Disney for 2weeks, so who knows where she will be when she returns. There are a lot of other issues too.
Mary/PA - Alison, have you been able to determine what is holding her back or blocking her learning?
Mary/PA - Shruti, what do you teach?
Shruti - I teach Science (Biology, Chemistry)
Alison - Mary, it's a mixture of a lot of things. She's been put throught a lot of phonics, she's very inflexible, has a hard time getting a core of words, and has a lot of directionality issues.
Mary/PA - Oh my! Shruti, we work with first graders...reading and writing, I guess we don't have anything in common with you.
Mary/PA - Alison, has she established a dominate hand?
Shruti - I have also taught grade1-3 before teaching High School classes
Alison - Yes, Mary. It's more of an orientation in space issue. She's not sure what up, down, across, around etc. really mean.
Karen/PA - Alison, is your student ESL?
Alison - I really doubt that she will discontinue. I had my TL come take a look to see if it was anything I was doing. No, she's not ESL.
Mary/PA - Alison, what have you been trying with her?
Mary/PA - What did your TL say to try?
Karen/PA - One of my ESL students was confused about directionality last year. She spent all of July, Aug., and Sept. in Pakistan and returned to us confused again. Urdu orientation is right to left. Last year we did a lot of physical movement - she was really confused about "first" and "last."
Mary/PA - Is she quite young? I know we aren't suppose to think about this, but it does make a difference sometimes.
Karen/PA - Is she matching 1:1 in the level 3 books with 2 lines of text?
Alison - She said to just keep holding her feet to the fire regarding not wanting to work. We both tend to think she may have a learning disability. My TL couldn't pinpoint anything in particular that I was or was not doing. I do think she wil make progress and due to the nature of my setting, I can probably continue to work with her after 20 weeks are up.
Alison - Actually, Mary, she's an older first grader.
Mary/PA - Karen, her confusion is understandable. First here is last there
Alison - Karen, she just started matching and actually monitored, self-corrected and reread last week. I was thrilled and so was she.
Mary/PA - Oh, a reluctant one. If she spends her energy avoiding she isn't getting much practice in doing. How does she act in the regular classroom?
Alison - I'm trying to get Mom and classroom teacher to back off on the phonics for a little while and focus on strategies.
Mary/PA - Alison, maybe a few more of those and she'll become encouraged to try for others
Karen/PA - That seems like a breakthrough! I'm struggling with a very bright little boy who is quick to pick up vocabulary and patterns, but who isn't looking carefully at the text. His running records looks great - after we've worked all the kinks out on our first reading. Any suggestions for this type child who starts to get frustrated around Level 8 when they can't remember everything?
Alison - Mary, she does not like her classroom teacher and does very little. Stares off into space, etc. It's worked for her for two years now, so it's going to be a real challange to get her involved.
Mary/PA - We have been discussing Alison's Hard to Accelerate child
Gigi/MO - Hey, girls!! I didn't think I'd make it back from class in time to get on here but I did!! I just got done going "behind the glass" and it went VERY well!! I'll try to calm down and help out!!
Mary/PA - It sounds like she's feeling defeated already
Mary/PA - Glad to hear that it went will for you, Gigi
Alison - Good for you Gigi. Always a relief, isn't it.
Gigi/MO - Yes, I'm definitely relieved!!
Alison - Be back in a minute, my dog needs to go out.
Mary/PA - How did the other lesson go Gigi? You said the teacher was taking her most difficult student. Was your group able to make any good suggestions?
Gigi/MO - They said tonight that the Hard to accelerate part is on p. 55!!
Mary/PA - Karen, does your child have any language processing problems?
Gigi/MO - The other lesson went pretty well also but He is a "Hard to Accelerate" also so that's why that page sticks in my head!!
Karen/PA - Gigi, I went BTG on Friday. It went pretty well, but it was suggested I move my student back a level to establish more fluency. I think he usually sounds more fluent than he did on Friday. Today he was out sick. Now I don't know if I should go back a level or not. He is the one who isn't looking at the text as carefully as I'd like him to so it may be a good idea even if he does usually sound more fluent. What do you think? (I had just moved him to a Level 7).
Mary/PA - Karen, what kind of prompts are you using during the first reading?
Gigi/MO - The other student was having a hard time with pushing the chips in the boxes--and it was brought up to use KNOWN words and have him push magnetic letters in the boxes so he maybe can understand the task better!!
Karen/PA - I'm using prompts to the visual all the time. His substitutions are almost always meaningful.
Mary/PA - Karen, it could make a big difference. Have you been working with phrasing and fluency on his old books? Maybe you can ask him to apply some of those skills to his new book.
Karen/PA - His oral language is very strong. He's the type child who doesn't like to use the visual because it slows him down, and doesn't yet understand how helpful it can be.
Gigi/MO - Karen--YOU know your student better than anyone!! I have heard and usually do have the students read lower levels especially during familiar reading to promote fluency!!
Mary/PA - Gigi, that's a good suggestion.
Karen/PA - I think one of his strengths is fluency. He really seems to "get" it - especially conversational text as in the Rigby books.
Mary/PA - I have a couple of kids who have mouths that try to run the show...I tell them they have to make their eyes be the boss...they have to teach their mouth to listen to their eyes. That seemed to mean more to them than "Does that look right?"
Alison - Karen, maybe he needs to go down a level and use books other than PM's. I have one that can fly through the PM's, but doesn't do well on other books.
Alison - Mary, I love that one. I'll be trying that one tomorrow.
Gigi/MO - Karen--If YOU feel like he is fluent, I'd probably NOT worry about it!! What does his classroom teacher think? Behind The Glass is VERY unnatural and he probably wasn't himself!! I can't imagine being a kid and doing it!!
Karen/PA - Mary - I like the let your eyes be the boss - I think that may be helpful. And Alison, you're right. I may have overused the Rigby books at the earlier levels. Maybe some nonfiction would be good to have him use those "bossy eyes!"
Mary/PA - One child in particular started saying what the book should be sayingHe was searching M and S well, but his ideas didn't match with the V...he'd try everything he could to make that book say what he wanted it to say :o)
Mary/PA - He's doing much better now since he has accepted the fact that he has to say what he sees.
Mary/PA - and not what his mouth feels like saying.
Alison - Mary, I had a child today who wanted to rewrite the book for her story! LOL
Karen/PA - Alison - I have a student who is also going to Sylvan. She is very phonics-oriented. I had a conference with her mom today to emphasize how the phonics needs to be balanced with meaning. You said your Level 3 child is relying on phonics too much. Is that coming from home or her classroom teacher? Sometimes we get them and they don't have a clue that what they're reading should make sense.
Mary/PA - That's one of the nice things about RR. We can taylor what we say and ask the child to do according to what each needs. I a group setting it is more difficult.
Alison - Karen, both places, home and school. She's just not ready for that yet.She still thinks it's all about the pictures. She's been read to a lot, so she has a good sense of story and thinks you just make it up.
Alison - She has the worst time trying to bring any words to fluency thought. She hasn't developed a way to remember, retrieval is also a problem.
Mary/PA - Alison, what kind of word study do you do with her?
Gigi/MO - Sorry, I had a phone call!! Do you want to be "WOW-ed"?
Meldy - I teach college students in a teacher training institution
Mary/PA - Yes, please, WOW us Gig..
Meldy - why? yes of course Gigi..
Mary/PA - Meldy, a very important job you have!
Alison - We talk about how the words look, how the letters look, what's first, etc. We trace, we write on the table, in the air, on the blackboard with the water pen, etc. Part of the problem is directionality within a word and with many letters.
Gigi/MO - My partner that I went Behind The Glass with tonight just discontinued a RR student on a LEVEL 18 TODAY!! It was EASY but his back was hurting so the tester quit!! Isn't that AMAZING?!?!
Alison - WOW!
Mary/PA - Alison, do you ever make a pool fo letters that make up the words that she needs to learn and have her construct those words with ML every day?
Mary/PA - WOW, sounds like he was over done
Gigi/MO - I'm hoping to get 2-3 out before Christmas break but I can pretty much guarantee you they won't be on LEVEL 18--I'm just hoping for Levels 10-12!!
Alison - Yes, we do a lot of that too, Mary. She can do it, and do it well, but it doesn't stick when she puts a pencil in her hand.
Meldy - got booted, am from the Philippines, Asia do you only handle pure reading subjects?
Mary/PA - Alison, does she struggle with letter formation? ...I'm just full of questions, eh?
Mary/PA - Meldy, do you mean here in this chat room?
Meldy - Thank you Mary, it's really difficult to train future teachers but it's a rewarding job..
Mary/PA - Gigi, I was hoping for that too, then two of my students move!
Alison - Yes, Mary, very much so. I love your questions, they help me clarify my thoughts. Keep it up!
Meldy - No Mary at the classroom...
Meldy - Gigi can I ask you a favor?
Gigi/MO - Meldy--Ask away!?!
Meldy - what grade level are you having RR?
Mary/PA - Alison, spend more time on letter formation...her words aren't going to stick in her brain when she is struggling with how to make letters. That has to be under control before she will start to move ahead...that's been my experience.
Gigi/MO - Mary--How frustrating when you've poured your heart and soul into them and then they MOVE!! Then you don't get to SEE where they get to in literacy!?!
Gigi/MO - Meldy--RR is for first grade students.
Mary/PA - Yes, Meldy, we teach Reading Recovery...work with the lowest first grade students in Reading and Writing. When they are done with us they aren't the lowest any longer....at least that's our intention
Meldy - PM Gigi coming...
Alison - Will do Mary. We practice that a lot too. That's when I realized she has such directional and spacial problems. I've asked the classroom teacher and mom to help here too. Hopefully, if we are all on the same page, things will improve for her. Thanks so much for your suggestions.
Meldy - How I would like to teach RR, it give me a fulfillment, do you feel it too? especially if your students can already read..
Alison - I can't spell correctly anymore, guess I better go. It was nice chatting with you all.
Meldy - Night Alison happy teaching
Gigi/MO - Bye, Alison!! Have you tried giving her a plan of action for letters and then having her say it as she writes a letter!! i.e. down up and hook for a lowercase r!!
Meldy - got my pm gigi?
Meldy - Mary where in PA are you/
Gigi/MO - Are we stuck?
Meldy - mary I'll give you the name of the company is it ok?
Meldy - no not mary it's gigi
Meldy - got my addy gigi? where is Mary now?
Meldy - wait gigi just, I'll get it.
Gigi/MO - Meldy--Yes! I got your address!!
Meldy - gigi pm coming
Meldy - Yes I am, I would like to thank you in advanced
Meldy - I think Mary is asleep now
Meldy - got it gigi?
Meldy - Yes I do understand gigi it's ok
Meldy - still there?
Gigi/MO - Did you get my last PM?
Gigi/MO - I really need to go for now but I'll try to email you soon!!
Meldy - Bye Happy teaching , amillion thanks
Gigi/MO - OK, Bye!!
Mary/PA - Wow, my cat disconnected me!! It took a lot of work to get things back in business
Gigi/MO - Mary--You are back!!
Gigi/MO - What a mess!!
Mary/PA - My cat tried to climb up the back of my computer and took out some of the wires!
Mary/PA - So, I guess I missed all the good stuff
Gigi/MO - Strong Cat!! Did he light up!?!! HAHA
Mary/PA - No, he just took off running because he knows he's not supposed to be back there
Mary/PA - I'm just glad I got things back in working order. I was quite worried there for a few mins.
Mary/PA - I'll get caught up when I work on the transcript for the archives.
Gigi/MO - Yes, I'm glad your back!! You keep us going!!
Gigi/MO - do you have to type out the chats for the archives?
Mary/PA - I hope Alison didn't think I was being rude
Gigi/MO - I doubt it, Mary!! You don't sound like THAT type of a person!!
Mary/PA - I hope not.
Mary/PA - I guess I should get back to work.
Gigi/MO - Mary--Have you read through "Change over Time"??
Mary/PA - I'm happy that you can go to bed happy tonight after having a good BTG experience! No nightmares tonight for you!
Gigi/MO - That's what we are reading through for our Continuing contact!! It is pretty DEEP!!
Mary/PA - Gigi, most of it, but it's been a while
Mary/PA - What part f it are you on now?
Gigi/MO - OK--Happy Holidays!! Hope to see you next time but I'm sure that Dec. will be VERY busy for eveyone!!
Mary/PA - Yes it sure is!
Mary/PA - Thanks for coming
Gigi/MO - We just read Chapter 2 (40 Pages) for tonight and then didn't even discuss it AT ALL!!
Mary/PA - Is that still about writing?
Gigi/MO - reading and writing, studies, etc.
Mary/PA - I'm going to have to get it out and go through it again.
Gigi/MO - It has some GOOD stuff in it but IT IS pretty DEEP I think!!
Mary/PA - Well, I do have to get on with my work. Thanks for coming and I sure do hope to see you next time.
Gigi/MO - We better go for now!!
Mary/PA - Everything Marie writes is deep!
Gigi/MO - Bye, Mary!!
Mary/PA - You have to read and reread several time to "get it"
Gigi/MO - That's TRUE!! And when she speaks TOO!
Mary/PA - She says a lot with a few words.
Gigi/MO - Right!!
Gigi/MO - Night, Mary!!
Mary/PA - Well, bye for now for real
