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Mary K&1 - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net. Tonight we have no set topic. Feel free to discuss any Reading Recovery issue that is on your mind.
Mary K&1 - How are lessons going for you these days?
kinderkateSD - Lessons are ok, considering I'm at a 4'track school and am trying to pick up 5 kids from two different tracks.
tyylee - At what point, if ever, do you stop doing the cut up sentence. I have a child that is writing fluently with very little help from me and with the longer stories we are getting into time is an issue.
kinderkateSD - I wonder about that also, tyylee. I definitely see the relationship between writing and reading - but are WE to teach writing longer and longer stories - or just use the writing to support the reading?
Mary K&1 - I think that if the child isn't gaining anything from the CUS, then you don't need to continue
tyylee - The child I am talking about is reading at level 10 and will probably move to 11 after Christmas and many of the stories at that level are long and also require more time. It seems that the cut up sentence has lost its usefulness for this child but I am not sure if I should drop it completely, or just part of the time.
kinderkateSD - I have omitted the CUS during later lessons, but continue the writing. However, I don't encourage longer and longer stories. Instead I try to get something in that is needed.
Mary K&1 - We are supposed to be preparing the child to participate at at least the middle or average in his regular class - so I guess it would depend upon what is going on in the reg. class
tyylee - I have heard that children should be at level 5 by week ten, are there any other benchmarks that we can strive for? Also we were told to successfully discontinue they should test out at level 12 at the end of first semester. But I thought we were also to consider the class average??
Mary K&1 - tyylee, level 12 by the end of 1st semester is the only thing we've been told
kinderkateSD - The guide book says NOTHING about testing out. It uses other criteria, one being the child should be able to work at the class average.
Mary K&1 - In my school that makes the RR kids at the top of the class, but we aren't allowed to discontinue at a lower level
kinderkateSD - It is the US that puts the testing constraints.
kinderkateSD - Same here, Mary K - especially in the classes with ELL.
tyylee - When the class average is lower than level 12 they still tell us that the child must reach that level. Seems like a contradiction.
kinderkateSD - We have been told at LEAST level 10 for the first round.
kinderkateSD - Does Ohio give any kind of standard?
tyylee - When doing the final testing do you consider fluency? Sometimes a child struggles and makes it to level 12 but I don't think they are understanding the story. We still consider it discontinuing but I have my doubts.
Mary K&1 - We are told that until the child reads at level 12 we can't be sure that he/she has all the strategies in place and really has the self extending system in full operation
nette - can we address making and breaking?
nette - I am so confused about it now.
Mary K&1 - sure can!
Pat - The level 5 by week 10 is referenced in the development project chapter in the GB. It is not a rule just an observation by Clay.
nette - do we always have them name the letters ?
tyylee - I was told that the level 5 by week 10 was a comment made by Marie Clay herself. That if a child is not at that level by that time we should be concerned and examine that child's program and our teaching.
Mary K&1 - Thanks Pat
kinderkateSD - I have had ELL's that HAVE all of the strategies in place and a self extending system, but don't have the language to make it through the higher levels. This is something that takes time to get, and I don't think the student or teacher should be accountable for that. It is just a developmental factor.
nette - I have not heard that rule before
Mary K&1 - nette, I don't have them name the letters during M&B
Pat - We should always examine the teaching & the program of a child who is not making accelerated progress.
nette - my reading recovery leader said you need to
nette - like I said, I am confused
Pat - Nette, when would be the time to identify letters? Why wouldn't you want to?
nette - I don't know.
kinderkateSD - I stay away from having them name the letters. Although I feel it is important for them to know the names I think it sometimes gets in the way.
Mary K&1 - Names are done when you are working with letters before you start M&B with a child, but it is done during the same time segment of the lesson
tyylee - Does Make and Break always have to be done with magnetic letters?
nette - yes
Pat - I think that children need to be fast with letter names. It's an aspect of holding a label for an abstract form. It's a prelude to the finer discrimination necessary to look at print.
kinderkateSD - Here's an example where naming the letters has been a problem. I have a child that when she comes to a word that begins with the letter N says /en/ instead of getting her mouth ready /n/ . For a letter starting with L she begins with /el/.
Mary K&1 - I think I see the confusion here - that segment of the lesson is for letter work OR Making and Breaking - there really isn't time for both in the same lesson. After a child knows 20 letters, that's when M&B can be started
Pat - Barbara Watson recommends keeping up with the letter identification segment "longer than you think."
nette - exactly
Mary K&1 - tyylee, I think that there is little else that can be used for M&B because of the manipulation that must take place
Pat - I have time for fast naming of several letters as well as early Making & Breaking principles with my level 5 student.
nette - this is my seventh year and they are always changing the M and b on me..thats why I get so confused.
nette - takes very little time Pat
Mary K&1 - kinderkate, I also have a student for which letter names got in the way of her successfully searching V - for the problem letters I stayed away from letter names until the sound was solid - that's what she needed - I think you have to go with what is best for the child at a particular time in his/her program
tyylee - I have some new magnetic foam letters that work better than the plastic ones. They don't slide around on the board quite so much.
Pat - Tyylee, do they stay without turning over. I hate letters that turn over. The letters cost enough, companies should put enough magnets on them.
Mary K&1 - tyylee, I've heard about those foam letters and wonder how well they can be manipulated - can a child break and make works with ease?
tyylee - Yes, they slide easily but stay in place better on the board. I love them!! Wouldn't go back to the plastic ones!!
Connie - I have seen these foam letters and they seem flat, and look like they may be hard to manipulate
kinderkateSD - What do you send for homework? We send the CUS in an envelope to be glued in a book that we made. Students then illustrate the page. Of course also books to read>
Mary K&1 - I send the CUS home and books to read, I don't ask for the sentence to be pasted together - the kids never did it - I have only one child who has consistent home support - it's sad, but that's the way it is
tyylee - Do you have trouble getting the children to glue their cut up sentences at home? I send mine home every night but at this point in the program they aren't doing them every night as they should.
kinderkateSD - I don't check the glued CUS every day. Instead I have the student tell me when the book is filled (10 pages). On that day we use the homework book for Familiar Reading and the student gets a prize for completing the book.
Mary K&1 - It's all I can do to get the child to read to someone at home - the families are just to busy surviving I guess
Connie - I am having the same problem with 2 of my students, very rarely do they do their homework, it's frustrating and you can really see the difference in how fast the kids who do their reading at home accelerate!
kinderkateSD - HOWEVER - I have a set of twins who have lost their homework books, 4 (2 each) reading books, the bags I bought to put them in and the backpack I gave them to put the bags in.
tyylee - I have started including some word cards in the homework for a couple of slow to accelerate children. They just weren't acquiring sight vocab. It seems to be helping. Wouldn't do it very often but it is helpful for some.
Mary K&1 - kinderkate - you have the same problems I have - kids are always losing books and pouches
kinderkateSD - Since we are on 4 track the kids have several breaks. At the last break I sent home cards for all the words on the writing sheet. The students came back knowing how to read and spell most of them fluently.
tyylee - Does your school give you any funds to replace lost books? Ours doesn't and I almost cry when some of my favorites don't come back.
Mary K&1 - tyylee, things work only if someone at home takes the time to tell the child to get them out and use them, know what I mean?
kinderkateSD - We don't get funds to replace books. This is just my second year and those 4 are the only books I have lost so far.
Connie - Mary, do they have to pay for the books they lose? I have lost a few this year too!
Pat - Does anyone find "reading friends" within the school for students who don't get home practice?
Mary K&1 - No, our kids don't have to pay for the books they lose
Mary K&1 - Sometimes I am able to find a reading buddy, but it is difficult with the schedules to get the kids together
Pat - I go to the students home when a book is lost and often it is found.
tyylee - We have problems with parental support also. I guess our families have all they can handle and I am not sure how much some of them can read themselves. I have two with new babies and they never have time to help.
Connie - Pat, it's a good idea, but it's hard finding time in the day for the child to get away from the classroom to read with someone. Sometimes on my lunch break I will bring 2 of my students in and they read their favorite books to each other. They enjoy that!
kinderkateSD - Hm - Pat - that is an interesting solution to the lost book problem that I might try. Thanks
Mary K&1 - Wow Pat, that must take a bit of time, or do your kids live close by?
tyylee - Do your first grade teachers support Reading Recovery? We have some resistance to having the children leave the classrooms.
Connie - Do you write down somewhere, the title of the take-home book each day?
kinderkateSD - Let's face it when it comes to the homework problem, many of the students we get are with us because they didn't get support previously. Although I don't take kids with an attendance problem, I do find my students are the ones that are late, don't do the classroom homework, are behavior problems, etc.
Pat - Yes, very close. It is an advantage I know everyone does not have. Most of my students have no phone so quick home visits are effective.
kinderkateSD - NO WAY - tyylee, our first grade teachers are constantly bugging the principal to have our school fully implemented.
tyylee - Mine take that days running record book home so I always know what they have.
Mary K&1 - It's hard to say - they say they do, but they don't do much to help remember to send the kids to lesson, they never listen to the kids read and don't use any of the strategies - it makes it more difficult, but that's the way it is
Connie - I've been told to wait a few days before sending the run. record book home, until the child is able to read it more fluently. I have 1 student I can do that with, but the other 3 need more time with that book before they can read it to Mom
Pat - I have heard of districts that have long range plans to have all first grade teachers go through RR training. What do you think? Would that help with support?
Mary K&1 - I don't have time to write down all the titles that the kids take home, my lessons are back to back with only 5 min in between when all goes well
kinderkateSD - I don't expect the teachers to remember to send the students. I go and get them, or send a message with my previous student. I remember when I was a first grade teacher and my students went to RR. I never remembered to send the kids, but that didn't mean I didn't value the program.
tyylee - Some of my kids are "Punished" by having to stay in at recess to finish the work they missed when they were with me. I have talked to the teachers several times but nothing has changed.
Mary K&1 - I have to get one child packed up and back to class and get set up for the next child in that 5 min.
kinderkateSD - Mine take home books from familiar reading of the day. I just circle the books they take home on the lesson plan.
Connie - I also go and get my kids, the teacher is way too busy to remember what time each child leaves. I rotate times with each student, so she would never be able keep track of it, and I wouldn't expect her to.
tyylee - My schedule is like yours, Mary. It sure makes one stick to the thirty minutes!!!!
Connie - Kinderkate, that's a good idea, I think I will start doing that!
kinderkateSD - Whoa - tyylee - that is NOT a good situation. I have had teachers ask me to "talk" to a student about a particular problem he/she is having (because I was known as a strong teacher in the classroom). I tell them this is not the relationship I need to have with the student.
Mary K&1 - I used to do it that way, but about 3 years ago they shortened our afternoon by 30 min. - now I have to cram the lessons in so tightly that I need their cooperation on sending the kids
kinderkateSD - Do you have phones in your rooms, Mary K. Can you call to have the student come?
Mary K&1 - No phones for us!
tyylee - I would like to discuss ways to help a child read more fluently. I have some that read word by word despite work on phrasing. Any suggestions anyone?
Mary K&1 - tyylee, I have the same problem with the missed work, plus everyday I have to take a child out of recess for lessons or I wouldn't be able to fit them all in
kinderkateSD - So far I haven't had to cut my classes that close. I allot 45 minutes for each child.
Mary K&1 - tape recording the child so that he can hear how he sounds - also modeling how it should sound - work on familiar books -
Connie - Tyylee, have you tried tape recording the child and letting them listen to how they sound. I also use the language "make it sound like you are talking"
kinderkateSD - Do you rotate the child that skips recess, Mary K?
Pat - Tylee...model, have them try. Model by the page, by the sentence or by the phrase. Don't let them get by with just saying it the same way...day after day.
Mary K&1 - Yes, I rotate the kids so that they each take their turns at missing recess
kinderkateSD - I have only taped students a few times, but find it is excellent for him and ME. Thanks for the reminder, I will do it more.
Mary K&1 - I wish that I didn't have to do it - miss recess, I mean
Connie - Tyylee, every time you hear any phrasing at all, really make a big deal out of it
kinderkateSD - I also read and have the child echo what I read. This is especially valuable for ELL's as it gives them a feel for the language.
tyylee - Thanks, I haven't tried the tape recorder. I will use it tomorrow. I have modeled it over and over and they repeat after me but next time they revert to that word by word reading, especially with a new book. I think they need to get more fluent in the new books too so they can use meaning better.
kinderkateSD - I usually work on fluency during familiar reading. And they LOVE being told they sound just like a teacher when they read with expression.
Connie - thanks for all the useful information everyone! Have a great holiday!
Mary K&1 - Well thanks for coming, see you next time.
