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Mary K&1 - Welcome to Teachers.Net's Reading Recovery Meeting.
Doug - I'm reading a really interesting book on Writers workshop for Kindergarten published by Wright Group
Doug - At our last continuing contact meeting we spent a lot of time looking at the observable changes in sentence writing continuum on p. 31 of GB. It was very interesting
tyylee - Doug, tell us some of the things you discussed..
Doug - tylee- we brought our writing books and lesson records showed ways we are taking notes and then placed kids on the continuum on p. 31 of the GB. I want to use Fridays to spend going over records rather than doing lessons...LOL
Mary K&1 - Do your TLs pressure you to get the levels up on children faster than you feel comfortable with?
tyylee - I feel the pressure right now since I know that we only have five more weeks with these students and some are just in Levels 6 and 7. I feel like the program is being judged by how many children discontinue.
Doug - Mary our TL is going to Texas and we are all very sad. She is a very unique TL and says that any time spent with kids is good and if a kid does not get out after 20 weeks don't panic
tyylee - I am finding it hard to get the longer books read and have time to write longer stories. How do you handle that problem?
Doug - tyylee- levels 6 and 7 are where the story rather than the picture carries the meaning.....
Mary K&1 - Are you permitted to use Fridays that way?
tyylee - Doug, are you saying that you can keep a child longer than the twenty weeks? We are being told twenty weeks and out no matter what.
Doug - Mary- of course not...I live in a cloud...LOL.....our TL is rather special though and she will be missed
Doug - tyylee- yes we can go over 20 weeks but we have to have informed our TL and consulted with others
Mary K&1 - tyylee, in what part of the country are you? - You seem to have the same kinds of problems and concerns as mine
tyylee - Indiana
Mary/Wa - Can non-RR folk stay and lurk?
Linda/2/CA - i am not a RR teacher, but would like to ask a couple of questions
Mary/Wa - (if we sit quietly in the corner?)
Mary K&1 - Sure - do you have and questions about RR? We don't have a topic set for this evening
Mary K&1 - Ask away
Linda/2/CA - Ok--first question--what happens to children in the program when the rr teacher is on leave of absence for 4 months?
Doug - tylee- a key I think is to have a RR person batting for us in the district office
Mary K&1 - Linda, the child doesn't get the service, there aren't any RR substitutes
tyylee - I recently had to move a child back two levels to increase her comfort zone and fluency for meaning. Has that ever happened to you? She could do the work at the higher level but was shutting down when things got hard.
Doug - Linda- and no other RR folks on the campus?
Mary K&1 - I don't know how there could be
Linda/2/CA - yes--2 others at this time--but they have their own students
Doug - tyylee- i have done that twice with a kid this year
Mary K&1 - tyylee, yes, many times, that's not unusual
tyylee - We have a RR person batting in the district office but the questioning is coming from the building levels, principals and other teachers. We are using title money and many feel we are not serving enough students for the money spent.
Mary/Wa - I had a question, too -- do you notice that the kids lose ground after this long holiday, or do they gain it? I've done remedial in my district for two years, and I always expect a drop after the two weeks off. But the kids invariably GAIN ground.
Linda/2/CA - 2nd question--how reliable is the web site that levels books according to rr levels?
Doug - tyylee- Dr. Stan Swartz has a good article on the finances of RR on the net at anihome.com and in the article he addresses the idea of the alternative and what it costs for special ed. 1st grade through 12
Mary/Wa - what website is that, Linda?
Doug - Linda- the one from Portland Oregon
tyylee - What Web site are you referring to?
Linda/2/CA - yes doug that is the one
Doug - tyylee- I don't have the exact address but use yahoo and type in Rr and stan swartz site comes up after 4 other sites
Mary K&1 - Mary, in RR I can't say that I've ever noticed a drop after a break - the way we do things, they know what they know and it sticks with them. Once in a while with a "hard to remember child" there may seem to be a bit of a loss, but not so with most kids
Doug - Linda- use the book it is better, more reliable and keeps people employed
Linda/2/CA - which book is that doug?
Doug - Linda- the book is available at http://www.readingrecovery.org
tyylee - Can you give me the web address of that site that levels books. I am trying to level some book sets for literacy groups and would appreciate any help I can find.
Doug - the book level book
Mary/Wa - Doug, I have a chart which puts the Fountas/Pinnell levels side by side w/the RR ones. I just use the Guided Reading book and convert away.
Linda/2/CA - reason for that question is that I need to find some books that are leveled after 24 for my top students
Mary K&1 - Doug, what book are you talking about?
Mary/Wa - I tried in vain to get the book level book, Doug, and because I'm not RR trained, I can't get it.
Linda/2/CA - mary--I tried that--the f/p book--our rr teachers said that the levels were off--some as many as 4 levels
Doug - the rrcna official book level book
Mary/Wa - o i c
Linda/2/CA - can a non rr teacher purchase it?
Mary K&1 - Linda, at those higher levels can't you use traditional levels? e.g. 2, 2.5 etc.
Doug - Mary- ordering it through the council directly with the address I gave you...still no luck?
Mary/Wa - I tried, Linda, and was unable to.
Mary K&1 - Doug, is it for sale on the site?
Mary K&1 - I've looked for it but failed to see it
Mary/Wa - Nope, Doug, wanted info about my certification as a RR teacher
Linda/2/CA - mary--we have to graph the whole class placement on a bar graph--so need something past 24 (which is 2.7) for my top readers--i have one who I think is going to score someplace in the 40's
tyylee - I have many books that are not in the current edition that we have but we are told are RR leveled. I wonder if they publish an update
Linda/2/CA - also--I have a couple thousand of my own books that i would like to level--as per rr--not someone else
Mary K&1 - tyylee, as far as I know, there has been no update, I think the last one was in 97
Doug - In my humble opinion, I suggest using the publishers themselves such as Wright group and they are very accurate about which levels go with each....dominie is also very accurate
Mary/Wa - I got a book from someone in Spokane that pulls together Wright Group, Rigby and other publishers' own leveling per RR. It's been quite useful, and compares to F/P well.
tyylee - Last year at the convention is Ohio all the publishers had rr level sheets for their books available, but you had to ask for them.
Linda/2/CA - doug--I have not found anyone who goes that high except Wright Group and they are not going to let me spend a few hundred dollars to get some books for 1 or 2 kids when I could use trade books
Mary/Wa - Scholastic, Tyylee? The Hello! Readers? I have TONS of them in my lending library for the kids
Linda/2/CA - tyylee--was scholastic one of them?
Mary K&1 - Linda, it is going to be very difficult to find levels that high. Reading Recovery is just for first grade, so we don't get into levels like that
tyylee - I do have a list that includes some trade books from scholastic. You might try calling their 800 number and requesting any list they have.
Mary/Wa - I might email my rep
Linda/2/CA - I tried that already--no response
Doug - just to change the subject a bit- my kidos took home a tape player with themelves reading familiar reading books...It will be interesting how they do when they return jan.3
Mary/Wa - what, emailing your rep, Linda?
Mary K&1 - Linda, how do the kids that you have in your class who have had RR do?
Linda/2/CA - yes
Linda/2/CA - this is our first year of rr--and I teach 2nd--so none of my kids have been in the program--wish they had been
tyylee - Doug, Are you using the tapes to promote fluent reading? I need to try that again soon.
Mary K&1 - Doug, are they to record themselves over the break?
Doug - linda- we are experimenting this year with a new teacher in training and she is doing her 4 kids before and after school
Mary K&1 - Oh, I'll have to ask you next year, then, won't I ,Linda?
Doug - tyylee-yes it is for fluency
Linda/2/CA - unfortunately we can't do that doug--transportation problems
tyylee - I never thought about sending the tapes home, I am not sure my low income children have tape recorders. Do you send home tape recorders too?
Linda/2/CA - mary--i use some modified rr methods with my lower students--so I know it does work
Mary K&1 - Oh, Doug!! Does she also teach a full day inbetween?
Doug - mary K&1- it is an aid and an addition to reading aloud with parents
Doug - Mary K&1- yes and she looks pooped
Mary K&1 - That's too much!! I'd look dead!!!
tyylee - I have considered taking children out of the extended day program if they would allow me more plan time during the day.
Mary K&1 - Linda, do you use the 4-Blocks?
Doug - our new TL is promising us that she will try to let us do our continuing contact in the day and we would not do lessons for that day
Linda/2/CA - some of it
Mary K&1 - tyylee, tell me about your estended day program, please
Linda/2/CA - not the guided reading part
tyylee - We do our continuing contact in the afternoons, but I hate missing teaching the children on those day.
Doug - tyylee- so you prefer evenings and doing the dinner thing?
Mary K&1 - Doug, that's what we do, at least those of us who teach our lessons in the PM, since CC is from 12:30 - 3:30
Linda/2/CA - is CC when you teach rr?
tyylee - We have an extended day program both before and after school hours 6:30am and to 6:30pm for those parents who work. Children do a variety of games and crafts and sometimes get homework help.
Doug - Can I change the subject again? I was discussing the strategy of searching with another teacher and she didn't believe me that it can take the form in many ways and is not only found in rereading. Do others agree?
Linda/2/CA - tyylee--did you get a grant for that program?
Mary K&1 - Linda, CC = Continuing Contact - that's when we have a regional Reading Recovery Meeting/Class about once a month
Mary K&1 - Doug, rereading is just one way of searching
Linda/2/CA - Ok--our CC is at 3-6
tyylee - I don't like the evening meetings very much but I just hate missing teaching days since a week is counted as a week no matter how many lessons are given that week and I know how far my children have to progress.
Mary K&1 - I don't need to tell you what searching is - was this teacher a RRT?
Mary K&1 - tyylee, do you do both? Teach a full day and do extended day as well?
tyylee - I would consider searching to be anything the child does to try to help himself.
Doug - Mary K&1- Yes...but she was asking what it looks like when you see a kid search....no she was a new 1st grade teacher trying to make sense with Clays strategies
tyylee - would you agree?
Doug - tyylee- good way to put it
Mary K&1 - tyylee, yes
Mary K&1 - If you see the child's eyes look at the picture while in the middle of a sentence, then you know the he/she is searching
tyylee - Mary K, no Extended day is done by paid College students. I was just thinking about taking some of my Rr children those times instead of during the day because of static I am getting from one teacher about taking the children out of her class.
Mary K&1 - If the child says a word or two and then another, you know that he's searching
Doug - Mary K&1- I was very impressed when my TL came to observe a kid that was hard to accelerate. I was showing how getting fluency and good percentages on the rr was hard....she said in Reading Recovery everything should be easy......
Mary K&1 - tyylee, if the children feel anything like I do at the end of the school day, they would be in need of a good relaxing break, not a RR lesson, I don't know how well they would be able to attend at that time
Mary K&1 - So Doug, what advice did she give? Were you at too high of a level?
Doug - Mary K&1- no just tht he needs a little more time than most and I need to model model model
Doug - my prompting was too much (what can you try)....I need to be more specific
Linda/2/CA - it always bothers me when the student appeals to me without using any other searching
Mary K&1 - Doug, "needs more time"? Where will you get this time?
tyylee - If you are prompting too much doesn't that mean that the book is too hard. We are told that there should be a limited number of things for the child to process.
Mary K&1 - Linda, tell them that it's their job, not yours to figure it out
Linda/2/CA - that is what I do mary
Linda/2/CA - but they still look at me and say "what's this word?"
Mary K&1 - Linda, I have that problem with children who are accustomed to getting too much "told" help from their Moms
Linda/2/CA - mary--they got that from the 1st grade teachers--not their moms
Doug - Linda- some kids don't even know how to appeal...try encouraging her to do 3 things before asking...you put out a finger each time she does one of them
Mary K&1 - I have to train the parents to not be so quick to give the easy answers
Linda/2/CA - tell that to the teachers mary!
Doug - Linda- sometimes when you say that it is the processing not the accuracy that makes a good reader writer gets them to consider alternatives
tyylee - I have a visual card with a reverse arrow(Reread), eyes (look for the chunks), a questioning face ( think about meaning) that I use when the children don't seem to know what to do. It serves as a visual reminder of what they are suppose to do.
Mary K&1 - Linda, I have a RR child who is still always looking at me instead of doing the work, I now sit behind him while he is reading and he can't look at me, it reminds him that he has to do the work
Linda/2/CA - good idea tyylee
Linda/2/CA - another good idea mary
Doug - mary- choosing teaching moves that get the most or biggest bang for your buck
tyylee - Next time what about time and the longer books at the higher levels, how we can 'get it all done'
Doug - tyylee- I like yours..:)
Mary K&1 - tyylee, that's a good and needed discussion
Mary K&1 - There aren't many short higher level books and time is a real problem
Mary K&1 - Doug, what do you mean by teaching moves?
tyylee - And the children need to become accustomed to the longer books since they will be expected to read that type book for the OS.
Doug - Mary K&1- in Rr many moves are good ones but some get better acceleration
Mary K&1 - tyylee, for the OS they don't have to read the whole story, just up to a given point - that's another thing that is strange about the way we are to do things here in the USA
Doug - Mary K&1- on the running record it is acceptable to stop after around 100 words
Mary K&1 - Doug, do you mean what you do to get shifts in the child's reading or writing?
tyylee - No, they don't have to read the whole story for OS but when they see all that print on one page they panic unless they are used to reading that type books.
Mary K&1 - Doug, I know that, but what about the first reading of a new book?
tyylee - We were told that during daily lessons not to stop the running record after 100 words unless absolutely necessary since it breaks up the meaning and enjoyment of the story.
Mary K&1 - 200 - 300 or more words - takes too long - but the GB guards against reading just a portion
Doug - mary K&1- i meant that in reading recovery there are usually a number of alternatives to each teaching move. For example, that is why you get so much discussion at behind the glass. My point is that there is a move somewhere that is best for that particular child at that particular time. How to find that move is the art of reading recovery
Mary K&1 - I think that they must have more shorter books in NZ
Doug - I have seen some teachers omit reading the new book and just do the bookwalk
Mary K&1 - Thanks for coming, see you next time.
