Teachers.Net Safe Schools Open Dialog

Teachers.Net
April 24, 1999
Safe Schools Open Dialog
Columbine H.S.

Kathleen - Well, how many feel as though they were there in Littleton on Tuesday? also most bruised by the events?
nancy/k/ar - kat...i was off school for dr appt...so i watched the whole thing from beginning on tv....daughter (17) and I sat and cried
Kathleen - jpm, you feel___________(how)?
jpm - kathleen that would be me I was on vacation my kids weren't though i actually called them wednesday to say I loved them and missed them
jpm - i am so upset it makes me so depressed but yet i am drawn to the news
nancy/k/ar - is morgan coming?
nancy/k/ar - jpm...how old are you??
Kathleen - jpm, yes, drawn to it but not really wanting to see it, I know. I avoided some of the coverage today.
jpm - I am 24 first yr teacher why?
Kathleen - Morgan said she would try to be here and was going to spread the word among some people in Littleton
nancy/k/ar - jpm...I ask because right after my son was born the Jonestown incident happened....it really depressed me for a long time
lee/tx - I have eight years of teaching.
Kathleen - Morgan said she might invite some Columbine and Littleton students, too. We'll see.
B-Ga./SC - I just finished watching a tv program on the incident and I was distressed that the parents of these sich boys were not mentioned.
nancy/k/ar - jpm...I was young...a new mom...and could not believe parents could kill their own babies
jpm - yes i watched some of the funeral today fried my eyes out then tried to go out with a non teacher she didn't see things my way that is what is more upsetting
Kathleen - Jonestown, another absolutely horrible event, yes, that was traumatic
nancy/k/ar - did anyone see the Ted Koppel thing from Jonesboro the other nite?
Ann - They were mentioned on the channel I watched - they interviewed one of the mom's beauticians
jpm - I always state my view of discpline when asked is finding and understanding NOT an EXCUSE but an understanding
B-Ga./SC - I think this reminds all of us how valuable life is and how fragile we all aare.
Kathleen - jpm, we educators identify more because we know that any of us could experience the same thing, and we wonder how we would handle the situation
lee/tx - what has a community are we missing in our communities to help children?
nancy/k/ar - jpm...that was 20 years ago and it still sends chills down my spine
Kathleen - _Safe Schools-A Handbook For Violence Prevention_ By Ronald Stephens http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1879639327/teachersnet
max - yes, Ann, I saw that, they mentioned the boy's families quite a bit
B-Ga./SC - Ann, did they say that one of the mom's came in the day after for a hair appt.
Ann - That same news cast also interviewed a policeman that said part of a sawed-off shotgun was found in one of the boy's rooms
Ann - B-Ga - yep
jpm - Kathleen i know she said well your kids are only 4 Thats WHERE IT STARTS forget teaching my 4s how to read and fractions they need to be taught early how to express their feelings through words not violence
B-Ga./SC - Where were the boys paarents that they did not see or want to see what was going on?
Kathleen - lee, don't you think that all (well, many) of us exist in too much isolation from our families? kids go to their rooms and tvs and computers for the whole evening, many parents don;'t know their kids, don't equip them for life
B-Ga./SC - I agree,jpm
max - parents are well know for denial!
Ann - Kathleen - very well put
Ann - B-Ga - they said the mom of one of them said she didn't know that boy that did that
lee/tx - Kathleen, Not that they isolate themself no one is home until late, they are growing up by themselves.
B-Ga./SC - I think parents are afraid of their kids and do not want to know what is going on in their life. These paarents are too busy doing their own things that the children are not important to them.
max - those parents are missing out on the most rewarding gift of life, spending time with their children!
ben/ns - I think some parents are afraid of their kids and so they ignore them and cover up for them
jpm - yes kathleen my 4's have tvs and vcrs in their ROOM
B-Ga./SC - Amen, Ben.
Kathleen - jpm, I know, isn't that sad? awful?
Ann - My son has been difficult to raise - he's ADD and very impulsive - I have sometimes felt like a bird dog, but I kept with it - there is a point where privacy in our home is not a question -
jpm - I can remember braking up with my boyfriend and yelling at my parents to leave me alone they left me alone for the day and then told me that if i wasn't going to talk to them maybe i should talk to a doctor
ben/ns - I know preschoolers with their own TVs and VCRs
Kathleen - I spent last week at Disney World and was very upset by how frequently I saw parents acting like parents with their kids. They ARE afraid to be parents. Little kids are making their own decisions, disregarding the parents commands.
lee/tx - what i have also noticed that parents verbal abuse their children pass it on in school.
nancy/k/ar - my children (now 17 and 20) never had tv's in room....son won one once...and put it in the closet (his choice) to take to college...never had cable tv at our house either
Kathleen - I meant parents NOT acting like parents
max - ne of my students brutally beat another student in my room two weekends ago, also bite him, charges were pressed; mother of the boy doesn't think the boy has a problem!! She lives in a adream world, unfortunately, will continue
B-Ga./SC - We must, as a society, make connections with our young people and let them know how important they are to us. Kids do not know that they are loved because no one tells them or shows them.
ben/ns - I was kind of surprised - my students(grade 12s) thought that parents had a responsibility to 'invade' their kids' privacy
jpm - Parents acting like their kids are their sibblings is what if ind
Warriner - hi, everybody
Kathleen - B-Ga, I think too many parents don't know how to display their love, through involvement, tough love, discipline,
max - kids want discipline!
jpm - teasing them and stuff like that i had one mother ask her child "whose going to cry first you or me it wont be me"
Ann - We have never allowed our children to have phones in their rooms - I sometimes listen to this end of the conversation - it is amazing what you can find out - when my daughter got all wrapped up in talking on the internet two years ago, I learned how to check the history and e-mail - I like to think I saved her from some serious mistakes
ben/ns - jpm - I have noted that too. Maybe that is easier than disciplining them, saying no and sticking to it
Sunnie - parents try to be friends instead of parents--they want their kids to like them---sorry--it doesn't work that way
Kathleen - ben, isn't that privacy issue interesting? As though a parent doesn't have a right AND responsibility to "invade" a child's privacy when a red flag goes up
lee/tx - Question, How many teachers have time in their day to just talk to their students?
ben/ns - max - I agree. They need the rules - it makes them feel like someone cares
nancy/k/ar - I have heard parents say they dont want to know what is going on....
B-Ga./SC - There is so much on TV about good paarenting that I do not see how parents don't know how to be a good parent. They do not want to take the time to be a good parent. parenting is a full time job.
max - Kathleen, I can remember, not too many years ago, when it was unlawful for schools to search suspected lockers!
Sunnie - invading privacy on occasion is a necessity for prevention and early intervention
JT/1/VA - Ann we never allowed phones or TV in our children's rooms either.
Kathleen - Sunnie, OR it's too much effort to stand one's ground as a parent when up against the tenacity of a child
max - we talked
Ann - I take the time - I teach inner-city kids - half the time over a weekend, someone they know ends up in jail or dead
nancy/k/ar - one friend built her new home so son would have a wing to himself....she did not want to overhear anything
Sunnie - true kathleen---even with 2 yrs olds i've seen parents afraid to say no
Ann - B-Ga - you said a mouthfull there - it's more than a full time job
nancy/k/ar - max...I am not allowed to look inside my kindergarten students' backpacks
jpm - Lee i get to talk to my preschoolers alot and 2 weeks ago i caught a child unexpectedly picked him up swung him around and said lets talk you have been so good lately that i haven't had time to really talk to you
Kathleen - nancy, are you kidding? who says?
jpm - You should have heard what he asked me
max - isn't that just awful nancy!!!
Ann - I'm not allowed, but I do it anyway if I feel there's a need
Sunnie - nancy---we couldn't do that either
B-Ga./SC - Children are given too many rights and choices. They are not mature enough to make adult decisions and yet the parents can't tell their kids NO!!!!
Kathleen - 50 Ways To a Safer World by Patricia O. Gigganshttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1878067958/teachersnet
nancy/k/ar - our administration....i can't look inside to get notes, lunch money...anything
max - Kathleen, been there, done that as well!!! Kids have rights and they will tell you so!!!
5th NC - Thanks B-GA! You are exactly right.
JT/1/VA - One of the things we are doing at our school is to offer classas in parenting.
B-Ga./SC - brb
ben/ns - I get frustrated with the small amount of time that we have to talk. Some kids, not very many fortunately, get caught in the trap of attention getting by being the victim. Very sad
Ann - I take up rat-tail combs, rakes in hair, yo-yo's(been used to hit kids), those hair sticks the girls like these days - anything I don't like the looks of
nancy/k/ar - however.....if truth be know...I do look in backpacks...I would miss alot of parent notes the kids don't realise are there!
jpm - he asked me if the tv says based on a true story then that means its true right? I said yes why he said because i was watching this movie and this girl killed this kid so that was true right this kid is 5 what is he watching
Sunnie - jt---the question is how many parents take advantage of those classes tho
Kathleen - I don't mean to sound as though I don't believe kids have any rights. They do have rights: rights to our protection and our best efforts to raise them as well-adjusted people. And I'm not advocating beating up kids!
ben/ns - JT - we did that and you know who was there? Right, the 'good' parents
5th NC - A student threw books at a student teacher on Thursday and then pushed a sub on Friday. the admin talked to him but that was all.
lee/tx - not many .
max - so true ben, and those are our targeted kids for early intervention, if we have the interventions to offer
jpm - 5yrs old and they watch rush hour and mad tv come on where are these parents
Kathleen - Ryan and Morgan, how are you doing??
Warriner - Has anyone said anything about the parents of those two boys?
JT/1/VA - Actually, quite a few take the classes.
nancy/k/ar - hi ryan and morgan
ben/ns - JT - that's good
max - little has been said Warriner
lee/tx - We have two councilers on staff and one that comes in for Sp ed and that doesn't seem to be enough.
Ryan and Morgan - good Kathleen we are very busy tonight so we will only be able to stay for a few
jpm - hello ryan and morgan my prayers are wit you
Ann - Kathleen - I think at times that subject is pushed to the limits - sure- all of us have rights, but we, as a nation, have become desensitized to horrific events
Kathleen - Warriner, not I. And I don;t mean to say that kids can't end up in trouble in spite of excellent parenting. It's not that simple.
JT/1/VA - Classes are offered during the school day and at night. We (teachers) babysit during classes.
B-again - I am retired now but when I sent kids to the counselor and she called the parents, the paarents were not too cooperative some of the time. Some parents tell their kids that they do not have to listen to what the teacher says because she is not their boss.
ben/ns - hello ryan and morgan, how are you?
Sunnie - children have the right to be protected from harm and to be nourished in a loving environment---they do not have the right to run the household
Ryan and Morgan - Ryan: The parents of the boys have their right to privacy just as we do
lee/tx - are we going to place barb wire around are schools?
Kathleen - Morgan and Ryan, are you at home now?
jpm - kathleen have you ever heard of the king philip middle school they do a great job at that
max - the laws have changed and the rules have changed in Florida; designated people now can search whenever they feel the need, don't think teachers can--so I have a class rule that covers that
B-again - Glad to see you Ryal and Morgan.
Ann - What has happened to the rights of the kids trying their best to fit in and get a decent education - the bullies have taken over
Ryan and Morgan - yes Kathleen
nancy/k/ar - true...ryan...
max - lee, do you think that is the answer?
jpm - I agree Ryan they are greiving so much my prayers are withthem as wr=ell
Kathleen - I have heard of that school jpm, but not in that connection
lee/tx - B, sometimes the problem is the parents.
Kathleen - How much is peer influence the problem?
ben/ns - ann - very true. at least 80% of the kids can be good and they want to learn
Warriner - Ryan, I was just concerned about all the heat they're probably feeling and hearing.
jpm - Kathleen i am taking a cont ed class there in every hallway it lists students rights and responsiblites and so much on how to think before aacting
lee/tx - I hope not. I like what i do. placing barb wire fence would deter me from my job.
max - how much is mental illness the problem?
Kathleen - Ryan, would you tell the other chatters about your connection to Columbine High School?
B-again - Was it really necessary for one ofhte suspects' mother to go to the hairdresser the day after the tragedy?
aggie/1/ca - Good evening, all.
Ann - Kathleen - have you read the new study from England that says at a certain point, peer pressure is more important to a child than anything they have learned or been taught up to that point?
Sunnie - children turn to peers out of loneliness, desire of acceptance--and lack of adult supervision
nancy/k/ar - as a kid...i felt like an outsider....wanted to dress differently and act wierd, but my parents were very stablizing...and would not allow
Mary/WA - is anyone in Littleton?
Kathleen - Ann, I haven't, at what point is that? middle school?
jpm - anything to keep normalness i am sure she needed that i am sure
Ryan and Morgan - Ryan: I am a choir teacher at Columbine High School I teach at the school two hours a day and then the rest of my teaching takes place at West Middle School also teaching choir
max - turn to gangs nowadays also for that
Kathleen - Ryan and Morgan are in Littleton
Ann - Kathleen - at whatever point the need for being "a part of something" emerges
B-again - If a kid has a loving home with loving parents and communicate well at home, peer pressure does not have the same hold as a kid who does not know how he fits in at home.
ben/ns - oh ryan, my heart goes out to you.
Kathleen - Ryan, do you think there are solutions to school violence, or is it something we will have to learn to live with?
Mary/WA - Are you okay is there any way we could help?
Ann - B-again - I know some excellent parents who have children deeply involved in drugs
ben/ns - B-again - I agree with you.
Ryan and Morgan - Morgan: many students have good homes they just take cues from their peers
LAURI/HS math - Ryan, how are you handling all of this? It must be difficult....
LAURI/HS math - Is there something we can do for you?
jpm - Ryan i teach preschool I am trying my hardest to teach the kids how to deal with their feelings thats all the comfront i can offer
JT/1/VA - But peer pressure is SO impt. Must know about choldren's friends!
Kathleen - When kids could be part of scouts, church groups, grange, teams, they probably didn't have as much need for the kinds of perverted activities that draw more of our kids than ever
Sunnie - i agree with b and ben
lee/tx - I hope we don't have to live with it. I like teaching but if my life is more important.
Warriner - Ann--and alcohol!
Ryan and Morgan - Ryan: School violence may never be fixed but we can do some things to stop the violence but only time will tell
5th NC - Ryan, were these good kids?
jpm - you could have the best home life and they can still be depressed and mentally ill
Kathleen - Ryan, what do you hear the Columbine kids saying after the shooting? Do they have answers?
Ryan and Morgan - Ryan: I am fine and ready to go back to work on Tuesday with everyone else
B-again - What kind of families did these suspects come from?
lynne/mo - i think kids are bombarded with violence and have become desensitized --don't realize consequences
jpm - Ryan I am trying its hard so very hard i have very very angry children but I am trying
Sunnie - it's parents' responsiblity to be involved in children's activities and guide them toward appropriate group participation and acceptance--such as kat mentioned--scouts, church groups etc
ben/ns - jpm - that is right
LAURI/HS math - Kathleen, I agree with you! The more their involved in other activities/groups, the less likely they'll get into trouble...
Ann - Ryan - does anyone know how the boy got a key to your school?
Mary/WA - our thoughts
B-again - jpm, I agree, but a parent should be able to see that something is wrong and try to get some help instead of staying in denial
jpm - they are also bombarded by people in the media dressing the right way and being thin or athletic that wears on you as well
DE Tony - Ryan.........is the high school going to re-open?
Ryan and Morgan - Ryan: The kids said to take each others words as if they are real and tell someone and yes the kids were good kids just quite
nancy/k/ar - Ryan...the kids in Jonesboro said that getting back into routine with their teachers and classmates helped the most
5th NC - Sunnie, lots of parents don't see it that way. they feel that socialization should be at school and it's the teacher's responsibility.
lynne/mo - that's right sunnie....parents are the answer
max - involvement in wholesome activities is on the down-side; what can be done to increase positive activities for children now a days
ben/ns - sunnie - and that involvement has to begin at an early age. No 14 year old is suddenly going to join scouts because Mom says so.
jpm - yes but we don't know they didn't try
Kathleen - Let's face it, being a parent today is VERY difficult
Ryan and Morgan - B the kids come from well to do families and yes Tony the school will re-open in the fall
lee/tx - We have to teach acceptance in our schools. Even as a special ed. teacher my students fun of their own group mates.
B-again - I agree with Sunnie
LAURI/HS math - Ryan ~ Going back to work? I'm sorry, I didn't hear they were reopening the school!?! Or will they be holding class somewhere else?
Mary/WA - sorry, my son was typing for me while I got dinner in the oven -- R and M, our thoughts and prayers will be with you.
Sunnie - i know 5--so true---but it all comes back to parental responsibility----that's why several states--va--included have a law that states parents can be prosecuted for their children's illegal actions
jpm - Ryan and Morgan I am soo soo sorry
Sunnie - exactly right ben
ben/ns - ryan - where will you have your classes next week?
jpm - give the students my thoughts please all i wanted to do was to hug my students after it happened
max - FL also Sunnie
Ryan and Morgan - Ann many of us give keys to our students, he may have made a copy but no one is sure about that
5th NC - I understand Kathleen but people need to consider these factors before they have children.
Ann - I'm not going to lay blame on these parents too much - I know I have tried hard to raise mine right, but you really never know what they are going to do - These boys were old enough to know what they were planning was very wrong
Cherie - Ryan and Morgan, any chance that drugs may have influenced the actions of these boys?
Mary/WA - How can we help _you_ with this?
B-again - parental responsibility is the whole key
Allie - sunnie: i heard a great comment from someone... dog owners are responsible for their dogs behavior but people arent for their own children?
Kathleen - Ryan, how many kids were with you in the Choir Room during the shooting?
Ryan and Morgan - Laurie students will attend class at Chatfield High School until Columbine is ready to re-open
LAURI/HS math - Ryan ~ why do the schools give out keys to students?
Sunnie - allie--how true that is too often
Ryan and Morgan - 65 Kathleen
Allie - good question cherie: i thought 4:20 was a stoner thing, nothing to do with hitler
nancy/k/ar - allie I was just thinking about that
jpm - so was I
B-again - Ryan, do you know Wanda in the lunchroom at the middle school there?
Ryan and Morgan - we give our keys to make copies get the teacher a drink etc open up the staff center but all of that will stop and drugs may have played a role
Kathleen - Morgan teaches at the Middle School, right?
lynne/mo - keys don't matter....kids have broken windows to get into our school just to steal some change
Mary/WA - I loved what Rosie O'Donnell said -- there are more controls on a bottle of Tylenol to protect our kids than there are safety measures on guns to protect our kids
Mel/Ont - Ryan and Morgan your tragedy hit hard in Ontario too we had all our school flags at half mast and a minute of silence
LAURI/HS math - 65 kids!!! I couldn't imagine....
Ryan and Morgan - Yes Kathleen she does
james/ca - I won't stay long because of crowdedness....I would reccomend that everyone see "American History X", this film does more to explain hate and disenfranchisment among young people these days than anything am aware of.....
Ellen/MA/1 - Ryan and Morgan, my prayers are with you!
jpm - my dad teaches high school i am concerned about him going to school moday
Warriner - I think that quiet kids ARE overlooked and excluded. They are in my school anyway. It's painful, I'm sure.
Ryan and Morgan - Laurie that is common in the music and pe department
ben/ns - Here in Canada we have stricter gun laws. I think it makes a difference. I've never seen a hand gun
Kathleen - james, where is that film available? tell us more
Allie - speaking of movies james... i really disagree with how many people try to put the blame on movies such as natural born killers...
Sunnie - thanks james
5th NC - I agree Warriner!
Allie - it is a slap in the face to those students who can separate fanstasy and relaity and appreciate film for film
jpm - it is a little bit of everything that made this tragedy happen
B-again - Can that movie be rented, James?
Kathleen - Ryan, with hindsight, do faculty think there was something that could have been done to prevent this? Any of us might be in a position where we are staring at an explosive situation but don;t know it
gertie - ryan and morgan at the opening of our school board district conference we held a minute of silence for the victims.teachers and families .we are in newfoundland, canaa
nancy/k/ar - allie...I have a family friend who was murdered by people who watched natural born killers dozens of times and went on a killing spree
Jules/GA - My husband teaches at our high school and he said that his students were upset by all that happened
cassie - Warriner, at a seminar I attended , we were told to especially watch the quiet kids, they may be most at risk
Ann - Really awful stuff happens to good people sometimes - there is no understanding or reason
Allie - im sorry to hear that nancy...but odnt you think if they were that sociopathic that if it wasnt a movie, something else wouldve set them off?
ben/ns - jpm I agree with you. Why can't we take this as a warning that society has to do some reflection and cleaning up?
lee/tx - cassie, the quite kids at my school are probaly gang members.
lynne/mo - but Allie, too many students can't separate and are effected negatively
jpm - my mom tells me you have to have faith but idon't know how much faith i have
B-again - Cassie, you are absolutely correct!!!!!
Mary/WA - especially those who show NOTHING on their faces -- at any time. I have a 5th grader like that.
Sunnie - i disagree----movies made for violence' sake are not films--they do not have decent stories---they're just trash
DE Tony - How are all of you handling copycats?
Kathleen - Allie, I do believe that the wrong input can steer a vulnerable child, even adult, in a dangerous direction. What good does all of that violence in movies and video games serve?
Jules/GA - the quiet ones are often over looked
james/ca - It was just released on VC Kat, It is greatly moving but a lot of theaters didn't show it because of the 'hate' theme the story explains
Ellen/MA/1 - movies do influence, allie, just check the playgrounds and wrestling
Ryan and Morgan - we should have listen to their warning signs I personally had Eric Harris in class I should have picked up on his outsideness
nancy/k/ar - don't know allie...but they came from illonios and travelled through mississippi and on down to louisisana killing people
JT/1/VA - Ryan and Morgan - my thoughts will certainly be with you !
Mary/WA - Tony, I had a 2nd grader make an inappropriate remark about it in my hearing. I gave him a lecture, his homeroom teacher gave him a lecture, and the Principal WILL be giving him a lecture on Monday
ben/ns - ryan - but if you had of reported that what would have happened? Probably nothing.
Allie - yes...i do agree that it is out of control in video games and tv and movies, etc... but certainly not all to blame
max - I have heard several reports from various sources indicating that the boys carried a lot of hatered
B-again - The hate of these suspects did not start in HS. They were disturbed kids for a very long time and no one got them help
Kathleen - Ryan, Eric Harris was a choir member? Did he participate, rebel from it, what do you remember that tells you something after the fact?
nancy/k/ar - correct ben...hindsight is 20/20
Mary/WA - Ryan, please don't "should have" yourself.
Ryan and Morgan - They did max
jpm - but you cant solve everything I am one quiet person and was put through all sorts of special ed testing because i never spoke up in class that has given me a little bit of a confidence problem
LAURI/HS math - ...but Ryan, with 65 kids....how could you keep track of all their personalities?
max - so true ben, hence, where do we need to start
lynne/mo - no, allie, it's definitely a combination....but we have to start someplace...
Sunnie - tony--a school in my county made nat'l news---2 boys arrested for conspiracy of mass murder--making bombs to use at the hs----the planning started before the co incident---if columbine had not served as a wake up call for kids to question these 2 students behavior and talk--then it would havee been us first
Kathleen - No ONE THING is to blame for sure, but there are many pieces to the puzzle, put together they make the whole
5th NC - Ryan and Morgan please know that the people in NC are praying for you and the everyone in CO. Take care.
Mary/WA - Sunnie, that the two boys in TX?
Jules/GA - That is so true, Kathleen
lee/tx - good discussion need to leave.
Ryan and Morgan - Kathleen he only showed up for class maybe once a week and always showed hate towards me he thought that I was agianst gays since I have a picture of Morgan on my desk
Ellen/MA/1 - remember when we were kids, if a neighbor saw you doing something wrong, you stopped, today nobody gets involved
B-again - Teachers can not be blamed. Kids were like they aare long before you saw them in hs
Sunnie - mary--i heard about those in tx also--no this is in va
Mary/WA - A kid in my county got put under psych surveillance Thursday because he had a list and a blueprint of the school.
ben/ns - Kathleen - good analogy re: the puzzle which when completed makes a picture
james/ca - got to go, anyway, American History X is the only film that has ever made me cry......
Kathleen - I'd like to see our society stop being soft on the depravity that is marketed to kids
B-again - Ryan and Morgan. God Bless You both and the same to all the teachers now currently in the classroom.
Kathleen - thaks, james
Allie - james: that movie made me truly shudder
Sunnie - thanks james--g'nite
Ryan and Morgan - Laurie you remember the really good and the bad the one is the middle well they get left out
cassie - I agree with you Kathleen, 100%
nancy/k/ar - ryan...that still does not mean you had a clue as to what was to come....even in kindergarten I deal with some really mixed up kids
max - thanks james, will get it
B-again - I agree Ryan and Morgan
Jules/GA - I guess, we have all had students that we worry about
lynne/mo - ryan and morgan, it's true for all of us.....try as we may
Mary/WA - Nancy, our psych said Thursday that the probability is in every school.
max - it will be interesting to see if we don't eventually hear that these boys were identifed as "at risk" in K
LAURI/HS math - Ryan ~ I didn't think of it that way.
Ann - I don't think there is one of us who would actually put together a scenario such as this terrible thing in our minds - normal people do not create this kind of carnage
jpm - I have such angry kids i don't know what to do
B-again - Nancy, I used to predict what would happen to most of my kids and I was correct more often than not. Once a child is disturbed, it takes a lot of intervention to help them. I say it still sstarts in the home.
cassie - I just watched 48hours on the shooting, psychologists stated that both boys would go far........
Mel/Ont - Ryan and Morgan were there bombs also in the school and if yes why didnt they go off?
Kathleen - It seems that so many of these kids weren't the ones who stood out as angry or violent in the early years, they are so often described as the quiet ones
Mary/WA - Ryan, the latest I've heard is that the "suicide note" with the mention of 4/26 may be a hoax -- you know anything more?
Warriner - jpm--why are they so angry?
julie - i agree on parental responsibility but as educators we need to see the signs too and speak out
max - kids learn best when they are around the modeled desired behavior, when they get to practice good behavior on a constant basis
max - you are so correct Ann!
Ann - I heard they found a journal kept by one of the boys
Ryan and Morgan - Mel yes and in the teachers cars that Eric and Dylan had and we do not know why they did not go off
AKP - What do we do when we speak up, document and report to our supervisors (principals) and it stops there?
cassie - You are right, ann...they did not say which boy....started last april
B-again - But depression can be linked to some of the behavior of quiet kids and you have to be able to identiy depressed kids. Lots of them in schools now.
Mary/WA - your car, too??!!??!!??
lynne/mo - max....how do you insure that
jpm - I have no idea the scary thing is they totally brake down for instance we were serving peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches this girl hates bread she totally broke down went running around the room tipping over things spittong and stuff wouldn't speak
Ryan and Morgan - Mary the 4/26 thing pertains to my wifes school being next it might be a hoax
Allie - the whole thing is just heart wrenching. best of luck to you ryan and morgan...
Jules/GA - Time to get the children in bed, they need to be ead to and hugged, Take care all
max - Kathleen, the difference between the acting out child and the quiet child, who is angry or enraged, is the way they display the anger and rage!!!! They both have it
Ryan and Morgan - Yes they did find Eric's Journal it was all about his plans
Jules/GA - Hugs to Morgan and Ryan
ben/ns - bye jules - take care
Mary/WA - now THAT part I'd not heard in WA. Only that it was a hoax
Ann - Bye Jules
nancy/k/ar - I had one k student who could not recite alphabet...but could tell entire dialogue of the Freddie Krueger movies
Warriner - Loud mouths can be depressed, too!
Cherie - Ryan, do you believe other students were involved in bringing in the bombs?
B-again - yes, max I agree
jpm - nancy i have kids that watch the movie rush hour my kids are 4 and 5
DE Tony - Ryan and Morgan..........Is that trenchcoat clique also in the middle schools in the area? Are these neighborhood kids......or is it just a high school group?
Ryan and Morgan - yes Cherie I strongly believe that
LAURI/HS math - Ryan & Morgan ~ I bid you good-night....and my love, thoughts, and prayers are with you and all those who live in Littleton...
max - lynne, I always attempt to model the behavior I expect to see
lynne/mo - i believe that, nancy.....it's amazing what kids can internalize
B-again - Bye for now.
Mary/WA - IO
Mel/Ont - Ryan and Morgan if they were so angry what stopped them from killing more and why did they take their own lives?
jpm - parent invovlment is a funny thing and I will tell you why
Ryan and Morgan - yes Tony my wifes school had a protest about them and also a bomb threat
Ann - We do uniforms at my school this year - Trench coats would not be an option anyway
Mary/WA - I'm hearing conflicting reports out here -- they WERE part of TCM, they WEREN'T part -- any insight?
Ann - We don't allow body piercing at our schools here either
Mary/WA - Ann, we do the uniforms, and I've never been so grateful in my life.
Ryan and Morgan - Mel I'm sorry but I am unable to answer that question
lynne/mo - i understant, max, but kids come into contact with too many others besides caring teachers
ben/ns - Ann - how can you stop the body piercing?
AKP - Ann, was it difficult for your school to institute uniforms?
max - Mel, good question!
Ryan and Morgan - they were Mary
cassie - hi all.....this is *me*!
jpm - I have this one friend his parents go away alot but used to send him stuff at college, came to one or two fo his games each season he played. He still didn't see this as love i asked him what he considers love some one that talks to me
cassie - untill my mom gets back!
Ann - If they come to school with it showing, they have to either take it out or go home
Mel/Ont - No problem we are just getting bits and pieces of info up here in Canada I respect your privacy
Kathleen - I'd like to hear what high school kids are saying about how to stop the violence
Ann - AKP - our school and three others piloted it this year, and next year all schools will have it - it really wasn't too bad
Kathleen - Ann, you don't have parents fighting for their kids' right to wear what they want to?
nancy/k/ar - *****poof****
max - that is why I think scounting etc would be valuable lynne, whatever positive they can be associated with
jpm - haven't you ever felt so lost and alone that all you wanted to do was run or pull the covers over your head that is probably what they felt and saw that killing themselves was teh only way out
AKP - We are a lower income, title I school. I wonder how our parents would react
Ryan and Morgan - Many of my students have expressed working together would stop the hate
Cherie - How could their parents NOT know that they were making bombs in the garage?
lynne/mo - we have dress code here too.....
ben/ns - kathleen - one of my grade 12s said that they had better be nice to everyone. My school is like an inner city school. Students were very upset even though we live so far away, in another country
Mary/WA - AKP, we're a Title I DISTRICT. It's gone over well because it stops the gang influence in its tracks.
kit4kat - jpm-So many teens think that no one understands their pain. They find it hard to believe that us "old folks" were once their age.
Ann - Kathleen - there were a few - one of the biggest arguments in the school system this year has been that mom that didn't want her son's hair cut - it was down to the middle of his back - they let him wear a wig until he finally cut it in January - I don't think they should have allowed the wig myself
DE Tony - has there been any answer to where these kids got these guns?
AKP - Cherie, I am wondering the same! Seems impossible for them not to hear something
max - a sick kid is very devious and very manipulative,
Ryan and Morgan - Cherie in the two years that I had Eric in class I never once met his parents they were gone much of the time
Warriner - I wish we could put less emphasis on competition.
Mel/Ont - Ryan and Morgan our thoguhts are with youup here in Canada
max - that is good to hear Mary!
Ann - Ryan and Morgan - that's exactly what I would have guessed
Mary/WA - AMEN to that -- that's why I love Music and not sports
Cherie - That, then, could be very much of his problem.
jpm - see i am 24 and still living at home so i can offer so light here sometimes my parents dont give me time to unwind when i need to that is when i shut down. its hard for parents to know what to do
anna - max - you're right. Getting kids to talk - honestly - is a big task.
lynne/mo - me too, ryan, since the neighbors said they heard something
ben/ns - we have tried to involve all kids in activities at our school - try to give them some ownership and opportunity to work with others outside of the classroom.
jpm - i am sure the parents feel very very guily
DE Tony - pretty lame parents Ryan....they wouldnt even come to a choir performance
JT/1/VA - Ryan, I think the absent parents is impt.
Kathleen - Ryan will your choir students be singing for any of the memorial services?
Ryan and Morgan - but on the other hand we should be able to trust our highschoolers
Ann - jpm - I wouldn't bet on that
Mary/WA - At first, as a parent, I resented it since I'd just bought back to school clothes, none of which were returnable. But it's soooo inexpensive in the long run
Warriner - Eric probably never told his parents or invited them to a choir function.
Ryan and Morgan - Kathleen No
lynne/mo - you're right ryan....and building that trust has to start when the child is very young
JT/1/VA - No, teens need more supv. than little ones.
max - again, normal kids don't kill other kids, there is no quick fix for all the messed up kids we have
lynne/mo - parents can't be active in grade school and then just quit in jr. high and hs....
Cherie - Trusting the teen ager and agreeing with everything he/she does are two different things.
jpm - I just hope that if i am ever a parent that my child will know that i lvoe him or her
JT/1/VA - Right Lynne
Ann - Ryan and Morgan - I have appreciated how the news people have let us see and hear some of the things the other students have said about the ones no longer with us - it really helped me know these children better
Ryan and Morgan - because it is not cool to have mom and dad a part of your life when you hit middle school
jpm - I trust you to do this but i don't agree with what you are doing i have heard that a million times from my parents
lynne/mo - very true cherie...but if a teen earns some freedoms...then they must be given
ben/ns - jpm - just make sure that they do know you love them - time more than goods
AKP - I need to run. Please know that the thoughts and prayers of West Tennessee are with everyone in Littleton.
Cherie - Teen age children still need guidance.
Mary/WA - Ryan, my 9 yo knows that Mom and Dad WILL be whether he likes it or not.
jpm - its not cool again until college when you feel that you need them
cassie - got to go...have company.......thanks!
Ann - That's why I call parents when something happens I would want to know. Otherwise, how would they ever know?
julie - true lynne, and its sad that we have many elem kids that have no parental support at school
max - I went on a field trip with my community college son!!!!
Warriner - Does Colorado have that parents will be "tried" for their kids' offenses, Ryan?
ben/ns - max - had he asked you to go?
lynne/mo - not cool....but my kids were always glad we attended all their functions...even if we didn't 'hang around them'
jpm - I have NO parental support and I teach preschool the parents say well don't you know how to do you job
max - yea, ben, he did!
Ryan and Morgan - yes
Kathleen - I hope the whole country concentrates upon prevention rather than sinking too much effort into reaction
ben/ns - jpm - that is so sad. Poor little ones. I give my pets more attention than some people give their kids.
Mary/WA - JPM, I'd ask them if they know how to do THEIRS
max - well said Kathleen
lynne/mo - sad...jpm...i teach preschool too....but pretty good support
Ellen/MA/1 - kat, true, but isn't there a lot of finger pointing going on now
Ryan and Morgan - I need to go Morgan and I are attending a parenting group tonight
ben/ns - kathleen - exactly
lynne/mo - amen, kathleen!!!
DE Tony - Ryan and Morgan........do you both work in the same district? Do you plan to return next year, transfer?
max - I have often gone to my students homes and worked with my parents!!! I tell them they are my strongest resources and I need their help
Cherie - Thanks for you help and imput, (((((Ryan and Morgan))))).
lynne/mo - thank you, ryan and morgan....our thoughts and prayers are with you
max - bye Morgan!
jpm - ben i know we suspended one 3 yr old last week and the mom said you hear that they don't want you to come to school anymore they don't like you and then when she started to cry her mom said oh what a baby you are cry baby she is only 3
Mary/WA - Wishing you the best of luck -- and Morgan too -- on Monday thoughts and prayers with you
Kathleen - And I think we ought to move toward MUCH LESS coverage about the killers in the future, try to avoid appealing to kids who will be attracted to the moment of fame, like a moth to the flame
Ryan and Morgan - No we do not work in the same district and yes we plan to return
Ann - Ryan and Morgan - my prayers for your strength in these trying days and peace of mind are with you. God bless.
jpm - bye morgan and ryan my thoughts are with you
ben/ns - ryan - please take care. Draw strength from the millions of people who feel for you and would do anything to change things. ((((Ryan and Morgan)))))
julie - our prayers are with you and the all the students and families
james/ca - I want to sound like a zealot but I think all teens would find the moral, ethical, and spiritual precepts found in Proverbs Chapter 17 highly enlightening if they were turned into a rap song
Ellen/MA/1 - my neighbor said to me,"Blaming the parents, You teachers should have known. go figure
Warriner - Stressed people make lousy parents
Kathleen - Ryan, what is the name of the Middle School where you teach?
james/ca - I don't
JT/1/VA - Ryan and Morgan please take care!
kit4kat - jpw - Why did you have to suspend a three year old?
DE Tony - Im not sure I could ever go back in that building Ryan...............how long were you in that choir room ......were you there when all of it was going on?
max - Kathleen, do you think the media will back away??
jpm - unfourtanly that is all my parents are is stressed
Ellen/MA/1 - Ryan and Morgan, bye, best wishes!
Kathleen - james, aren't there singing groups that do just that? of course, they are not mainstream
Mary/WA - Ryan, a former Denver-ite, Natalie Sleeth, wrote some wonderful pieces for situations of grief.
Ryan and Morgan - West Middle School
max - so true Warriner, but they often love their children deeply!
jpm - because she tipped over a chair and desk destroyed a bunch of toys kicked us and spit on us
Ann - james - I don't think you're a zealot - the Bible is an excellent place to begin anything
Kathleen - max, no, not unless there is some gigantic public groundswell or some miracle of enlightenment
ben/ns - kathleen - that's right. We had a terrible mass murder in Canada several years ago. Young women murdered by a man who felt that women had too many rights. The media gave little attention to him and much to the poor young women.
james/ca - Kat, I have been working on a piece of new music using Socrates' Crito for lyrics, after all it is public domain now
Warriner - Anybody hear any more about a third party coaching these young men?
kit4kat - jpm-Wow! so much anger already!!!! And what will happen by the time she reaches high school, I wonder
jpm - her mom asked her if she was upset and she said yes when asked why she said I don't know and you know what i belive her she is 3 and she doesn't know why she is upset but she is how depressing
Kathleen - I remember that, ben
Ellen/MA/1 - Was that at a university, ben
jpm - I don't want to know
Kathleen - james, how do you get kids interested in that though?
julie - i hope that this will make our society aware that we need to take care of our youth and stop saying oh thats just part of growing up when they do things that are incorrect
Mary/WA - I didn't want to say anything in case Ryan hadn't heard, but I heard on the news that the reason the bomb didn't go off in the cafeteria was because the fuse didn't work properly. If it HAD, it would have been as bad or worse than the OK City bombing.
max - 48 hours just asked the sheriff about the others, he said they were looking at certain people, but wouldn't comment more
james/ca - okay ann, then would 'religious fanatic' be a more appropriate profile?
Kathleen - Warriner, no, nothing yet
ben/ns - ellen - yes they were engineering students
kit4kat - jpm- at that age they don't have the words to express what they feel. They just feel.
james/ca - Kat, put it to a beat with lots of low bass.
max - the lpersonality of the person working with the kids gets kids to buy into or turn away from something, often
Warriner - thanks, max
james/ca - I remember that one ben
jpm - okay i think i am going now try and take care my prayers are with all you that we all have the strength to keep going and we have some impact on them
Ellen/MA/1 - I remember that story, ben,
Kathleen - jpm, has this session helped you at all?
Warriner - bye, jpm
ben/ns - I have to go. Take care ((((everyone)))) I have faith that we can change this seemingly downward spiral
james/ca - some grad student was upset with a prof's critique of his thesis...
Mary/WA - gotta run too -- take care!
Cherie - We are trying to get someone to help one of kindergarten children. He looks like an angel, is quiet, but went home and got a knife to threaten two girls at the park because they wouldn't share candy.
jpm - to feel better yes i still am very confused on why this happened and i hope i make some impact on these kids i really do
lynne/mo - good luck, jpm
lynne/mo - just your caring helps
max - James, didn't that happen at U of FL??
Cherie - He will be in my classroom next year.
james/ca - of course we can ben, that's why we are in this line of work!
max - Cherie, did you inform the authorities???
Cherie - His teacher is working with the mother....trying to get her to take him to a doctor/psychologist.
james/ca - that, max was a separate incident, there is little reporting of violence at this level of academia
Rosebud - Cherie, does your school have a referral process so that the child could be evaluated by a school psychologist?
max - I had a student who went on and was doing post graduate work at Princeton in Bisitine History, she was murdered, and they could only suspect it was professional jealousy,never found out
Cherie - We do, but they are not referred until they are in 1st. So I guess it will be up to me, huh?
max - Cherie, if he had a knife on others, the police could have Bakker acted him and forced testing
sunnie - i need to run one more computer check on a school---will you be around for another little while
max - and the not referring until 1st is a big part of the problem, interventions need to be starated EARLY
james/ca - I have lost too many students to violence max
Rosebud - Are there no policies about extreme circumstances? It doesn't make sense to wait that long to solve a problem so extreme.
Cherie - The girls' mother went to his home to talk to his mother. He brought out a rubber knife and said that is what he used. The little girls said not so.
kit4kat - true Max
max - you have James??
Rosebud - Max, I agree! Intervention is the key. we should be proactive not reactive!
Cherie - I agree with you max, but the district is trying to save money, I believe, and say it is not necessary before then.
max - Rosebud, i think you just hit the tip of the iceburg!!!!! and it isn't the school's repsonsibility, and you'd better not make it so! ugh
max - whos responsibility is it if a child's safety and well being is in jeopardy??
Rosebud - No way, Max! For some reason, it seems that the world thinks that the school is the problem! What ever happened to the parents' responsibility for their children?
max - so true rosebud, but the schools are scared of suite and they won't get involved, and if the parents aren't doing their job, what happens to the kid????
Rosebud - Yes, the school has a duty to keep the school safe, but it goes so much further than that. If they have no concept of right or wrong, then the school can only do so much.
JPM/CT - hello all i am back for more talk
Cherie - I will be pushing the mother to get help because the kindergarten teacher told me other members of his family supposedly have manic depression.
max - I agree Rosebud, but who takes up the slack when the parents are not doing their job, that is where a lot of the disturbed kids get out of control
max - Cherie, mom most likely as well!
max - ((((JPM)))))
JPM/CT - hey max tired tonight wish i was back in FL
Cherie - Could be. Looks like I'm going to have a great year because they are also giving me another troubled child and two children who may have greater learning problems.
Rosebud - I guess we do----only I'm afraid that's not enough. At the risk of sounding odd, We must truly adopt that attitude of "it takes a village to raise a child". It certainly is worth the try. YOu know the story about the one starfish--it matters to that one.
max - schools do always get blamed!!
james/ca - and teachers max
max - I guess we are afraid now a days to band together and assist
Cherie - Yes, max, we get blamed, but I have students who don't want to go home.
Rosebud - Yes! It would be nice if the schools weren't always the bad guys. Don't people realize we aren't in this for the $$$?
max - Rosebud, but my prin said, of my sp ed class, the bottom line is the money!!!!!
max - Cherie, and I know why!!!
Rosebud - Okay--is that $$ in your pocket or for funding your school?
max - james, I've lost the context "and teachers"
max - not in my pocket!!!! I guess what they get in FTE monies
Rosebud - If we have kids (and we all do) who are afraid to go home, shouldn't we do anything we can to help? How can you not?
james/ca - Right, Rosebud, we are in it for the wealth we as teachers have to share with the entire planet
max - I have to rosebud, but it sure doesn't set well with the school!!!
james/ca - that's his bottom line max, not everyone's
Rosebud - Why is that? I don't understand that attitude! I cannot go home knowing that I have left something undone. One night might make all the difference. This is not a job that happens from 8:00-3:00 with summers off!
Cherie - Part of the reason some of mine don't want to go home is that they don't know whether they will be staying at dad's home or mom's home....
max - it took three years, but I did get one of my students placed in residential care (group home) because mom was too mentally ill to provide for him, I truly don't think the child would be alive today if I hadn't fought the battle
max - yea james, and has to be the guy I work for, LOL
james/ca - where did sunnie go?
Rosebud - Good for you! You made a difference for that one and I'm sure many more. You just have to keep fighting the fight.
Cherie - Thank heavens there are teachers like you, max, who fight the fight for them
max - she had to fix a puter, she asked if you would stay and she'd be back soon
max - I am not very popular Cherie!!!
Rosebud - But isn't is sad that sometimes we have to fight our own system?
Cherie - I bet you are with your students, max
james/ca - max, the bottom line is the value we place on the human spirit, or else the entire works would grid to a halt
max - I think an entire new system needs to be developed for the mentally ill kids and at risk kids, the schools are not able to do what is needed
max - well said James
Rosebud - How can you not be popular? What business are the rest of the people in your school in?
Cherie - I agree with you, max, that the regular classroom is not the best place for some of these students.
Rosebud - What kind of system would you like to see in place?
max - I mean valued by administration, they do not want to become involved, the are very protected as to what is an education issue!
Rosebud - I don't understand the position of most administrators. Aren't they still there for the kids? Running a school shouldn't be so much like running a business. There's a lot more at stake!
james/ca - Rosebud, instead of fighting, I choose a path that is a better model for students to follow..... reason and understanding....it drives those in the higher echelon batty!
Cherie - Rosebud, it should be that they are there for the kids, but they also have to stay within a budget..
max - don't really know rosebud, would need to look at the needs of the children, I think appropriate diagnosis is important, careful monitoring of medicine if the child is given meds, appropriate instructional materials on instructional level, parent involvment, community involvment, sense of pride in strengths and use strenghts to build child's weaknesses, allow child to value self and others
james/ca - I call this trick 'gentle subversion'
Rosebud - More power to you, James. I think that there should be much more of that in our schools!
max - we have a big budget!!!
Rosebud - Max--sounds great. How can your administration turn that down?!? You should make a proposal.
Cherie - James, you should give seminars on it......you could get rich,,,,if it costs the districts nothing to implement.
max - james, i'd like to apply for an internship under you for the summer!! LOL
Rosebud - When you really think about it, all of the things that you just said are what all students need, not just sp.ed. kids. With a system more like that in place, wouldn't it be easier to help kids in trouble?
james/ca - Rose, their are alot of people who would like to try 'education assembly line techniques', daddy warbucks types
Rosebud - And I'm sure they have the stats to prove that is works!
max - there is a lot to know to be a good educator, we really are expected to know so much, I see lots of unqualified people in positions, climbing the ladder to the top!!
james/ca - sunnie and I have been talking about such a seminar Cherie, but of course it would have to be free at first....
Cherie - I'd love to take that seminar...
james/ca - max, everyone rises to their own incompetence
Rosebud - Are our schools really that much different than they used to be ( 10,15,20 years ago)? Have we changed or has society changed?Is education too political?
max - I love that james!!!
james/ca - own level of....
max - yes!
Rosebud - Where do I sign up for the seminar and do I get inservice points?
max - Hi Michael,
Cherie - Rosebud, I've been teaching for 32 years, and yes, the parents, families, schools, instruction have all changed greatly
Cherie - I still love teaching, but it has become harder to deal with all of the things outside of teaching.
Michael/6/GA - Hi, Max---and everyone
max - so true Cherie
Rosebud - Have we all lost sight of the big picture? I think that I can see it, but it is so clouded by things that don't seem to have anything to do with teaching kids.
Cherie - Of course, I started teaching when I was 6 years old....a child prodigy ;-)
max - Michael, I am presently teaching 6th grade in Florida, sp ed
james/ca - Cherie, I have been teaching all my life, but have been paid for 15 years of that
max - LOL @ Cherie
Michael/6/GA - Max, I teach 6th Science and Soc St.
max - james, you are younger than I thought!!!!
Michael/6/GA - In Georgia
james/ca - Rose, over the last few years,administrators have consistently handed off more of their responsibilities to teachers....
james/ca - max, age is one heck of a price to pay for maturity or wisdom
Michael/6/GA - What I find most interesting in all the problems with school violence is the fact that the individuals are all male. I think we have come close to losing a generation of males.
Rosebud - Why is that ? Has the focus for them been completely removed from the children?
max - I had to pay it tough james, and now that I am half way there, I am overaging!!!!
max - I think principals are like big business!!
james/ca - Michael, look what happened in Germany after the 1st WW
Rosebud - Michael--yes, and as the mother of 2 boys, I want to figure out what I can do to help my own and those in my classes.
max - This is silly, but aren't they all slim as well!!!!!
max - I have 2 sons and they are such wonderful people, and I am so thankful, I don't know what we did, other than really enjoy them lots
Cherie - Wouldn't it be great if it all boiled down to just a vitamin deficiency and we started giving all the children vitamins with their lunches.
james/ca - the cult of administration has max, in the past few years, made themselves dispensible
Michael/6/GA - Exactly. But I can't help but believe that our boys are all totally confused as to their place in society. Women's lib has caused a complete restructuring of responsibilities, opportunities, and expectations for them while the standards remain the same as before. It is no wonder they are confused.
Rosebud - But don't you think the parents of those Col. boys might have said the same thing about a week ago?
max - but james, wasn't that forced upon them, the move for --what is it called!! spread the responsiblilty, collaboration?
Michael/6/GA - Rosebud, you need to read Real Boys by Pollack. It is a magnificent book on this very subject with wonderful suggestions.
max - Rosebud, maybe the parents, but from what I am hearing, the boys displayed great hatered toward everyone and everything; I bet I would lhave picked up on them if I had taught them
Cherie - Yes, max, we were copying Japan's successes in business by spreading responsibility to the workers
james/ca - Michael, this is because our nature to want to be recognized as sucessful in the hunt has not been met, all males want women to "sing of their victories"
max - well Cherie, I understand Japenese never "let any of their workers go" and I guess we forgot that part, LOL
Rosebud - Max, do you really? I'm sure that those teachers were alert. What would you have seen that they didn't?
Cherie - James, la la la la lal lol
Michael/6/GA - Max. You raise a great point. I, too, feel that I would have seen something if I had been one of these boy's teachers.
Cherie - I guess we did, max.
max - I bet they saw Rosebud, but what do you do, there are no systems in place to even call in a concern!!!
max - james, you and hubby would agree on that point!!!
james/ca - cherie, japan's success is based on more economic 'tribalism' than assignation of responsibilities
Cherie - Even the police did nothing when it was reported to them about the boy's activities in the garace, according to reports I've read
james/ca - think tribally, act locally, invest globally
Rosebud - Max, what would you have done? Would you have sat by and said, "There's no system in place for me to do anything?"
james/ca - cherie, this is because the boys told others that they were working on a "school project"
max - no, and in the end I would lhave been sitting in those boys kitchens having coffee with the parents if it came to that, LOL (then they would lhave found me first!!!)
Cherie - It worked for awhile, james. It seems to be failing now...economically for them anyway
Michael/6/GA - Do you see the same thing in your schools---that the administrators often just want to sweep the problems under the rug? I see a real tendency to cover up the ugly stuff.
max - it is very clear in our schools that its not the school's place to do such and such...
Rosebud - Michael--sure they want to sweep it under the rug, but we can't let them!
Cherie - Yet, parents and government put more and more responsibility on teachers
Rosebud - Max, if it's not the school's place, then whose is it?
max - and as a teacher, i feel my professionalism is more and more denied
Cherie - agreed!
james/ca - Naw cherie, bad investments by greedy, self-serving commodity traders, who worked as economic advisors to asian governments was their undoing
max - *max thinks it should be mad the school's place, who else knows the kids any better other than the parents*
Michael/6/GA - In Georgia, the governor has established a call line for students, parents and teachers to report dangerous situations to a central office. that way the admin cannot ignore the problems. this is a great new step, which has already worked.
max - will they regain , james
Rosebud - Cherie--yes! If we are accountable for this, that, and the other, why aren't the parents, administration, etc. accountable also?
max - concerning school problems Michael??
Cherie - Because the buck always stops at the end of the totem pole
max - administration calls the district attonery before doing anything!!!
Cherie - And we're at the end
james/ca - again, I believe technology has gotten ahead of personal widom.....'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'
Michael/6/GA - Max. Yes, concerning school or the community. One call to the line this week resulted in the arrest of two students who were planning to kill as many as 15 other students.