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RAN/TN - Welcome to our Monthly Special Ed teachers metting. Our subject is "dealing with the behaviors of the SED student."
Mae - I spent today in a meeting with two teachers who are at the end of their ropes with a 5 yr old with a possible diagnosis of SED. As a resource to the staff, I was having difficulty difusing the situation. This little boy does fine once he has made the transition, but he can't seem to end one activity to begin even a preferred activity without as major tantrum. He is in a general ed environment, team taught by a general educator and a special educator, they seemed to feel the solution was to get him out of there! I am looking for ideas to keep him in the general education classroom, but support him through the transitions!
Becky - Does giving him notices about when the next activity will begin help?
tina - Mae- is there something he can do to participate in these transitions?
Mae - They do a great job giving him the cue prior to the transition, but that sets him off.. then they have given him the job to ring the bell... again no good. I wondered what would happen if they just let him be.. would he eventually join the group
Mae - I have suggested also transition objects.. highly motivating objects that he gets to take from one activity to the next. IQ is between 70 and 75.. with that being considered a low estimate because of the behavioral interference
Mae - I also suggested social stories... how to behave in the classroom. He is as cute as a button, and the day I observed him, he had a great day... they said he was on cold medicine
Mae - Any other ideas?
RAN/TN - Mae, One of the things that I have found to be helpful in transitions from one activity to another is to establish a very structured routine for my SED students.
tina - mae- teaching social skills is a big thing inNC- do you have a program like that?
Mae - We do use that with our older children, but the pre-k and kindergarten children do not have a formal curriculum per say
tina - our program comes via dpi in raleigh
Becky - Tina, what kind of social skills curriculum do you use?
tina - a lot of role playing, discussions , etc
tina - becky- we were sent a notebook on ideas to implement
Becky - Does anyone have suggestions on Social Skills curriculum that they have had success with?
Mae - he might be able to do some of the role playing.. I guess that is why I thought about the socail stories....
Sharon - I really like the Skillstreaming books, but for low kids the Circles Program is very good
tina - mae- the kids love to role play at all ages
tina - you're right sharon- both are good
Becky - I have used Tough Kids before but I am wondering if there is something more effective
Mae - I think I am more worried about the teachers.. they are great teachers, and they are burnt out on this child!
tina - Structure is a key element- thus few problems at the hospital setting
Mae - they run a very structured classroom..lots of movement, lots of visual supports, lots of cuing for the children... this child just needs a little bit more!
tina - mae- could he qualify for a special aid?
Mae - well, that is my problem right now, there are two teachers and a classroom assistant for 23 children, 5 wsith disabilities.. I think they have adequate classroom coverage
tina - mae- some public schools here assign an aide to one child exclusively
Sharon - Mae - do you use visual schedules and picture symbols to help structure this boy's day?
Mae - our county dioes that, I just think that having enough hands is not the problem
Mae - all of the visual supports are in place.
tina - Mae- has he been tested for other problems?
tina - We're finding a lot of kids labeled SED that really have other things causing the problems
Mae - we are in the process of trying to get a physician to presacribe meds.. at the reccomendation of the nuero psychologist
RAN/TN - Mae, The classroom environment you discribed could be over stimulating for this student.
tina - Mae- good- he's not adopted, is he?
Mae - we have thought about the envrionemnt.. but are struggling with our county's philosophy towards inclusion...
Mae - no he is not adopted
Mae - we are lookign for ways to provide an alternate learning environment, all the while allowing him access to the general education curriculum.. he is of kindergarten age
tina - Mae- my step son is sed and was unsuccessful in the regular classroom- it was too much for him
Mae - our county whole heartedly supports inclusion...all the while making sure th eproper supports are in place for him
tina - He failed kindergarten twice before I convinced his mom to look at alternatives
tina - but if they are still not meeting his needs then something is missing
RAN/TN - Mae, You might try isolating the student in his own little area in the corner of the room. thus elimenating a lot of the over stimulation.
Sharon - Proper supports are crucial - so is the environment, though and it sounds like he's a bit overwhelmed
tina - Has he been isolated? How does he respond- acting rejected or satisfied?
Mae - i really appreciate everyone's input.... we will continue to look for options for this little guy..Ran/Tn.. that is an excellent suggestions, but for now, until we get the screaming under control, we have to remove him from the classroom.. which is a tough call.. as he loves to escape from demands!
tina - my students hate to be left out- they want to be in the classroom
tina - does he respond to a reward system at all?
Mae - I am interested in looking further into the social skills training.. and wonder if there is a resource someone could provide me with.
Sharon - Ttry figuring out what the screaming is telling you - all behaviuor has some communicative intent
tina - mae- is this behavior the same at home?
Mae - Sharon, I think I know what the screaming means.. we are woking to put a behavior plan in at home as well....take care, and thanks so much for the chat!
RAN/TN - You can isolate him easily within the room simply moving some funiture around. Like putting him in one corne of the room and a bookcase on the other side of him with his desk facing the wall.
Stella - this is my first year teachin (6th and 7th eh in sc). what is the one most important piece of advice a veteran teacher can give me?
tina - stella- it gets easier with time! Don't try to do it all at once.
tina - stella- breaking everything in to small, concrete steps can help
RAN/TN - Stella Don't give up on your students. Try everything you can. document every thing you do.
Stella - I feel very overwhelmed...18 students, no aide, no money...all the paperwork!
Sharon - Stella - keep your day structured and visual - it'll help the majority of kids - especially the ADD/SED/OCD/etc to know what the heck is going on!
RAN/TN - Oooooo! I bet you do stella!
Stella - I write each days schedule(down to the minute) on the board each day.
tina - stella- that is a tough position to be in but try to keep your routine structured as possible with clear behavior/consequences
RAN/TN - And give them as much warnign of any little changes that will affect them and your established routine.
tina - stella- give them a paper copy and let them check off each as they achieve it
tina - I teach in the most restrictive setting and it's hard to believe the behaviors I read about in their histories
Sharon - color coding schedules to match notebooks works well too stella
RAN/TN - In my classroom, I have posted on chart paper a daily structured routine. My class strictly follows that routine everyday.
max - consistency, the key to success with our kids
tina - Ran- how do they respond to that? Does it make them feel safe,etc?
Stella - its thier hostility towareds each other that causes the most problems
tina - we are expected to be so structured that sick days are not easily allowed
RAN/TN - Every morning we have a group discussion. During that discussion, I inform them of any changes in our routine. Then those changes are written on a wipe off chart for the entire week.
tina - stella- it's hard for someone to like another when they're having trouble liking themselves- start there
max - tina, I find it tooo difficult to take a sick day!! way to much prep needed
woody - Sometimes kids like to see the activities listed down the board rather than across maybe with pictures
tina - max- if one of us is out- the kids get angry with us- we're only constant thing in their lives
Sharon - Tina - you're not allowed to get sick - you're invincible!
max - I agree tina
tina - each of mine has a folder with their personal plan in it- I just rotate
max - I've taught SED for about 8 years and this year is my first year in a "center" school for SED; it is very helpful!
tina - sharon- had to teach with bronchitis, pneumonia- not fun but necessary
max - I have a strong team support system this year
tina - I think that a support system makes all the difference, too
max - we have so little agression in the classroom compared to what I've had in the past; I rarely need to do any type of physical intervention
woody - does the centre have other classes for sed students or is your class the only one?
tina - max- we have no aggression in the classroom- the first hint we call for help
Sharon - Max - I'm in Canada - can you describe your centre?
tina - are the kids on a behavior modification point system?
max - our school is the center for all the SED students in the district; the entire SED (7-12th grades) population is bussed to us~~about 120 on roll, 80 in attendance any given day
max - we have a very percise behavioral management system; a four level system
max - it has been refined over the past 16 years
tina - Is is successful? Ours is because if affects what they can do on the unit- but when kids live at home...
max - everyone is required to follow it; we are always "on duty" the students move around campus but never without supervision
RAN/TN - Max, would you like to share it with the rest of us?
max - our kids all go home and often come in very "whatever"; we take what we have and teach them to deal with what is expected of me here and now, in this place
deb - What type of "support system" are we talking about
woody - does anyone have any suggestions for a student that has tourettes and swears a lot?
max - be happy to, but I've only been there since the beginning of this year and am still overwhelmed with learning the system!!
tina - woody- one I had responded to an increased check list for postive behaviors
max - have a tourettes student again this year; fortunately very supportive and intelligent parents
max - mine response best to positive strokes as well
tina - we started out with checking off at 1 minute intervals with rewards, eventually got to a full class period
max - my tourettes student has medication that takes the edge off his behaviors, but he still has a great deal of baggage
Sharon - I have TS boy on my caseload - we're trying to shape his behaviour from swearing out loud to muffling it with his arm or turning his mouth into his shoulder
max - that was great progress, tina!!!
tina - dep- support could include other staff, isolation areas and of course rewards
tina - max- when you're locked up in a hospital , you can be pretty intensive
max - I get my student for homeroom (am and pm) and also for math right before lunch; his meds are really worn off when I get him and it takes most of the period for them to kick in
tina - max- could they adjust his med schedule?
max - tina, I imagine our center is not too far off from your level of restrictiveness, during the time students are with us
tina - sounds that way max- i do love where I'm at and what I can do
max - tina, we are documenting and working with it; he is doing so much better than he has in the past 5 years that we feel he is making progress~~he needed the smaller setting
max - its difficult to get much change in med schedules around here; schools don't believe in nurses either
tina - max- note where his "swiss cheese" learning spots are- it'll help pinpoint periods of trama
tina - trauma!
max - tell me more tina???
max - he hates to do any writing
tina - forget the spelling attempt
Sharon - love the image of "swiss cheese"!
tina - I find that a lot of spec ed kids know certain concepts but are missing pieces in between- can't learn these because other more important things are going on then
max - that isn't the image I immediately received!!!
tina - it's a good indicator that those are developmental skills/times that need to be repaired
max - this child has lots of missing areas, but has outstanding strengths as well (very capable, 7th grade with grade 14 reading level (MBA)
tina - max- do you know if he's been punished by writing?
max - math is 6th grade level
Sharon - Wow!
Sharon - How is he on the puter
tina - max- is his writing legible?
max - not that I know of, but his doctor feels he would benefit from OT; trying to get him screened
tina - does he write really tiny?
max - he doesn't like doing much of anything that involves hands; however, he is able to pick up medium sized items; and you can read his writing--is larger than most
tina - oh- fine motor control poor?
tina - so it's not just poor self esteem, good
max - he is very oppositoinal defiant when asked to do written tasks and yet doesn't accept alternative means easily
Sharon - he may have Developmental Coordination Disorder - get the OT to check and find a doctor who understands
tina - max- have had kids who hated to write- usually they tell me it's like punishment
max - he is said to be "lazy" I feel he is too good at the parts of learning that he is good at to be "lazy" in the areas he is deficient in
max - our district doesn't like to recognize OT needs...
tina - If his hand-eye connections are difficult for him, he would hate it
Sharon - DCD is often comormid with other disorders - your description fits many of the criteria
max - he doesn't even like to focus on math (the subject I have him for, just before lunch and when meds are wearing
max - thanks Sharon, I'll find out more about that
max - he is proud enough and manipulative enough not to allow one to know that something bothers him if he can cover it up with inappropriate behaviors
max - he will draw a little tina, looses focus very quickly, redirects and then get silly
tina - max- I have kids who draw "groups" to show divison, etc instead of writing the answers
tina - thanks, Ran- want to get her involved in this sort of thing
max - tina, in his head, mental math, he is able to do most of the work given him
max - I offer to record for him, sometimes it works
tina - max- so how about letting him tape his answers on a recorder?
max - this kid has a lot of strong services, good counseling, etc.
tina - max- we are thinking alike!
max - he isn't interested in being that compliant, tina
tina - maax- does he record them himself? Give him control feelings
max - we are getting him to be a little more responsive as time goes on; positive strokes work best for him
tina - doesn't it for all of us?!
max - he has never gotten along with peers or adults, where he came from he was often suspended for punching others out
max - thanks RAN, it is nice to get together with other ED teachers
max - for sure tina,
tina - Max- I still think it's an indicator that he doesn't like himself and acts out to show how awful he feels
max - I agree tina, his psych. says he is from the Ozzie/ Harriett family~~ he is bi-polar and has the tourettes~~so there is some neurological involvement
max - he is one of my better students, actually; and he has done much better this year so his parents say
tina - max- bi-polar are known to love to cause havoc with everyone!
RAN/TN - We are about out of time. I have really enjoyed tonight's session. I hoped everyone got at least something that will help you to dealwith yor SED student.
tina - max- will he try to draw pictures of the concepts being taught instead of writing answers in words?
Sharon - thanks for the chat - cheers!
RAN/TN - Any last comments form anyone?
RAN/TN - Thanks for coming and participating tonight . Our next meeting will be February 3, 2000 at the same time. Watch the schedule for our next topic.
tina - RAN- thanks - this was my first meeting but not the last!
RAN/TN - Tina and Max it was great to have you both here tonight. I hope you both will become regulars.
RAN/TN - Good night and good luck!
