Kathleen - Welcome
to a chat about the teaching of information about religions, examining
whether we need to be doing that, and, if so, how to do it in public schools
without creating controversy related to separation of church and state.
Our special guest is author Peggy Fletcher Stack. Her book, A World of Faith is a beautifully illustrated book containing information
about 28 different religions of the world. We will be focusing upon the
desireability of teaching children about religions, and what that means
to school curriculum planning.
Kathleen - Peggy
Fletcher Stack, welcome to Teachers.Net! Your book is very beautiful and
interesting. What was the motivation for writing it?
peggy - because i
am a religion writer for a newspaper, i wanted to explain the world of
religion to my own children. i found no books for elementary school children
so my friend suggested i write one.
ginny - what grade
level is your book written at and what religions does it cover?
peggy - do you teachers
think it is possible to talk about the history of religion in the classroom
or do you find that fraught with potential danger and possible offense?
Kathleen - peggy,
I think people (educators) ARE fearful of crossing a line that gets them
into trouble
Kathleen - How many
of you are teachers who are reluctant to teach about religions?
Sharon - I am a religious
ed teacher - CCD - 2nd grade. I teach public school children in an after
school parochial school class.
ginny - I taught
history to 7th graders for 6 years and English to 5-8th graders for 12.
You can not be a literate person and not deal with religion.
Kathleen - ginny,
do you mean that it is always part of the curric?
Kathleen - Sharon,
do you teach in a private, parochial school?
ginny - yes--Henry
VIII makes it part of the curriculum as do the crusades and a lot of other
historic events
peggy - to me, the
study of religion is the study of ideas. if handled well, as you say by
literate people, it can be an invaluable teaching tool
Kathleen - For any
parent or educator wishing to be informed about 28 of the world's religions,
I recommend peggy's book A World of Faith.
Sharon - I teach
in a parochial school - the children come from public school
ginny - so it's a
book for grown up or kids or both?
Kathleen - Does everyone
agree with peggy as she is quoted, "Bigotry begins with ignorance, and
many of today's children know little or nothing about faiths other than
their own,"
peggy - Thanks, Kathleen.
I just wanted to help teachers and parents discuss the various religions
in a positive way. It's aimed at children but many adults will learn some
things too
Sharon - yes
Kathleen - peggy,
is your book for kids only, or grownups too? (My opinion is that it is
for all)
Barbara - I think
there are many aspects of the history of releion that can be taught. I
have taught about St. Nicholas in a fourth grade classroom many times.
St. Nick was a real person and was Bishop of Myra in the early days of
the church.
Kathleen - Barbara,
have you ever had anyone challenge you, thinking you were promoting a religion?
ginny - I often find
I am teaching kids more about religion than they learn at home or in school.
I'm not teaching matters of faith, but rather cultural parctices and historic
events.
Kathleen - ginny
and all, do you think many homes teach children about religions other than
their own?
Sharon - I'm sorry
that i am not familiar with your book - something I have found is that
the "school " expects that most of the educating comes from the parents.
and we are only "extra" - I see children with little knowledge
ginny - not only
do they not teach others, they don't teach their own.
Barbara - No, I think
basically if there is any teaching about Religion in the home that it is
only about the religion that they follow
Sharon - true - i
feel that too
peggy - I, too, find
little knowledge of the various beliefs of other religions. Yet doing research
for my book, I was struck by how many similar ideas even the most diverse
traditions had
Kathleen - Peggy,
was any religion more difficult for you to summarize than others?
Barbara - No I have
not been challenged. I have been very careful because I am also an ordained
clergy person
Sharon - Thanks kathleen
- you are most kind
ginny - In teaching
Anne Frank to 8th graders I allow kids to choose to learn about Judaism.
Kathleen - ginny,
do you think fewer families are teaching their children about their religion
that they did in the past?
ginny - yes
Barbara - Yes, I
think the church is in trouble because the world has become so busy with
other things.
Sharon - Perhaps
the teaching is still going on but the importance is not stressed as in
past times???
peggy - Reducing
every religion to one page was a terrific challenge. Among the hardest
tasks was choosing one American Indian religion and one African religion
to summarize, rather than lumping them all together
ginny - kids can
choose to go to temple as part of an independent project related to anne
frank--for many even those who are Jewish it is their first time in any
religious sanctuary
Sharon - Life in
general has become quite relaxed
Kathleen - peggy,
you mention the similarities of various religions, do you think when we
teach about religion we should focus more upon those similarities than
on the differences? Any opinion from any one here on that?
Barbara - At Christmas
when we talk about the customs that we keep I (when they were part of our
school system) I talked aRamadan and the Eid.
Sharon - Oh, most
definately
ginny - kids don't
know why they have good friday off--
Kathleen - Sharon,
I think you're right, less emphasis, more casual exposure to religion
peggy - I am interested
in both the similarities and the differences. Similarities make us feel
united, differences make us feel unique
Sharon - good point.....one
to meditate on
Kathleen - Barbara,
do you do that even if there are no students who observe those religions
and traditions?
Barbara - I am a
Reading teacher and there are marvelous story books about various religions
ginny - it is the
differences that add texture and color to the appreciation of religion.
Kathleen - It's interesting,
many schools close for Good Friday, but I'm guessing most teachers shy
away from discussing the reason for the "holiday." Do you all agree?
Sharon - yes
chabadnick - hi ...I
work in a jewish preschool
ginny - I'm dying
to take my 7th grade African American lit class to hear some REAL GOSPEL
music... They are truly culturally deprived.
chabadnick - Its
a little hard as we have to teach the regular cirriculim and Jewish studies
Sharon - I find its
not always the teacher. it comes from administration. many teachers want
to explore with the children
Barbara - What age
level is the book aimed at?
Kathleen - Peggy,
does your son attend public school? If so, does he learn about religions
of the world in school?
peggy - it is aimed
at 9 to 12 year olds, but younger children could read it with parents'
help
ginny - good age!
Sharon - I am quite
anxious to read it.....
Kathleen - It certainly
can be read to younger children, the meaning and illustrations discussed.
peggy - My three
children, aged 7, 9 and 11 all attend public school and learn next to nothing
about religious traditions there, but because of my job and my book, they
know a lot about religion
Kathleen - AND when
we read it, it equips us to open discussion and further exploration of
religions we didn't understand before reading the book.
Sharon - Thats key
peggy - many parents
tell me that they learned some things about religions they didn't know.
most people want to know something about a lot of religions, but not a
lot. One page might be enough
ginny - At a time
when darwinsm is being banned from classrooms. Can you imagine the stink
they would put up in the mid west if religions of the world were taught
in the classroom?
ginny - It is so
sad--that people have become so afraid of religion.
Kathleen - peggy,
I doubt many adults know even a small amount of the information you include
in your book
Sharon - Fear is
an awesome thing........one you are helping us overcome
peggy - Ginny, You
have a point. People have such strong feelings about religion and how it
presented in the public sphere. I would hope my book would add to understanding
not to divisiveness
ginny - what religions
do you cover?
Kathleen - ginny,
interesting point about the fear associated with teaching about religions
peggy - There are
28 religions, including about 12 Christian denominations, Judaism, Buddhism,
Hinduism, even up to Zoroastrianism
Kathleen - Amish,
Baha'is, Baptist, Buddhists, Catholic, Christian Scientist, Confucianism,
Episcoplaian, Hindu, Hopi, Jehovah's Witness,Jewish, Lutheran,Methodist,
Mormon,muslim,Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Quaker, Salvation Army,Seventh-Day
Adventist, Shintoist, Sikhs, Taoist, Unitarian, Uoruba, Zoroastrians
ginny - wow! sounds
like a big book, How many pages per religion?
peggy - The book
is in alphabetical order and we decided not to include number of believers.
We wanted children to assess the ideas of a religious tradition, not how
many members it has.
peggy - it is one
page per religion, with one illustration there are 64 pages
ginny - I miss not
having invocations, Christmas trees without fear, menorahs? We are so afraid
to exclude someone we are not celebrating our diversity and cultures anymore.
peggy - earlier dona
asked how i researched the religions. I read many books and articles, then
wrote my page and then ran it by someone in each religion to get final
approval. i wanted children in each religion to feel good about the page
and have the language sound familiar to them
Kathleen - Peggy,
Did you or the illustrator visit many of the sites depicted in the book
while preparing the text and illustrations?
peggy - both of us
had visited several of the sites, beyond that, we just found photos in
books to help us illustrate it.
Sharon - Are you
marketing t his book to educators or the general public?
Kathleen - peggy,
if you answered this I missed it: was any one religion more difficult than
others to understand and summarize?
peggy - Both to the
public and to educators
Kathleen - Did you
have any difficulty selling your book idea to a publisher?
Sharon - are educators
responding favorably?
peggy - I am trying
to remember which religion was the most difficult. Episcopalian was hard,
I remember, to explain to kids that it is both American and British.
Kathleen - A
World of Faith wouldn't (shouldn't) offend anyone, it gives a broad
and impartial description about many relgions, without espousing any one
religion
peggy - we had a
terrible time finding a publisher. I think the idea of religion scared
them off. And we didn't want to go with a religious publisher, because
we wanted it to be seen as neutral and not evangelizing one position
Kathleen - Peggy,
how did you and the illustrator Kathleen Peterson get together for this
project?
peggy - Some educators
have responded positively. It is in many school libraries, at least. It
is up for some educators award in Texas, called the Blue Bonnet award.
Any idea what that is?
Sharon - heard of
it -- but not sure
peggy - Kathleen
Peterson and i got together serendipitously. We share an interest in religion,
She was looking for a project and a mutual friend heard me talking about
the need for a children's book on religion. She thought a book modelled
after From Ashanti to Zulu on religion would be great. So we colloborated.
Kathleen - I love
the book, so glad I heard about it
Sharon - Things often
work out best that way...I too must go prepare lessons for tomorrow.....thanks
for all
Kathleen - Did any
of the religions pose a special challenge for the illustrator?
peggy - Kathleen,
How did you hear about it?
Kathleen - Peggy,
I think I read about it in the arts & lit section of my Sunday paper,
not sure. It was a glowing review that caught my eye.
peggy - The ones
that were hardest for Kathy were the ones who eschew symbols, like Unitarians
or Jehovah's Witnesses. The ones with rich symbols, it was just hard which
ones to choose, like Hopis or Hindus.
Kathleen - Do you
have a favorite illustration?
peggy - I am partial
to the Amish, the Hopis, and the Shintos. I also love the Salvation Army
page. So many people tell me they had no idea Salvation Army was a religion
Kathleen - peggy,
yes, that is true, many don't know that Salvation Army is a religion
Kathleen - The borders
around the illustrations remind me of the way Jan Brett illustrates with
so much info in her borders
peggy - Kathleen,
are you a teacher? Do you think the book could be used in some classrooms?
peggy - I am so proud
of the illustrations. I think Kathy's work is up there with Jan Brett's.
I really do.
Kathleen - I am a
teacher, yes I think the book could be used, certainly could be part of
any classroom library
Kathleen - LOL, I'm
trying to decide upon a favorite illustration, but can't, I love them all!
Kathleen - Are you
doing any book signings, appearances?
peggy - When the
book first appeared last Dec, we did some signings. But since then, we
have done very little publicity. The publisher failed to get any notice
in publisher's weekly or Library Journal. It makes me sad, I really want
it to be seen broadly, not because of any money to us (though money isn't
all bad), but because I truly believe in the product and its value to young
people.
Kathleen - How long
did it take to complete A World of Faith? It must have taken a long time
to research.
Kathleen - I'm happy
to help spread the word about A World of Faith. It's a book I can recommend
knowing it will benefit the buyer, whether parent, educator, citizen of
the world. :-)
peggy - Because I
am trained in religion and have a fulltime job, it only took my about three
or four months (from 9 to midnight) to complete. But Kathy spent a full
year every day working on the illustration. While doing a particular one,
she imnmersed herself in that faith as if she belonged.
peggy - Thanks for
your encouragement. I try to spread the word as much as I can and word
of mouth has helped some
Kathleen - I wonder
if the study had any life-long effect on Kathy if she immersed herself
so deeply?
brock - Sounds interesting-
can you give me some background on the book peggy?
Kathleen - It would
make a nice memorial gift to any library
peggy - Kathy is
a profoundly religious person, as many artists are. I think her study for
the illustrations enlarged her own faith dramatically and made her feel
close to people of many faiths. I have always felt a kinship with people
of faith. As you can tell by what I choose to do for a living.
peggy - It could
be used with any students interested in the history of religion and/or
ideas.
Kathleen - brock,
it's a nice way to begin a study of comparative religions, even in early
elementary school when we begin to introduce cultures
Kathleen - And it
would be a real help where there is no religious diversity within a school
community, where there is a vacuum ofknowledge about other religions and
cultures.
peggy - It could
also be used by parents who are trying to help children understand the
pluralism of American religions
brock - My wife teaches
a course on comparative religons at a local secondary school- there is
some concern with the Christian content- some people feel it is pushing
relig. and this should be done outside of school
Kathleen - paggy,
I disagree with "used with any students interested in the history of religion
and/or ideas." I think it would be useful in AWAKENING an interest in those
areas.
Kathleen - brock,
interesting point. But if she is including a broad spectrum of religions,
why would anyone feel she is "pushing" and religion?
peggy - rue, Kathleen.
As to whether Christians alreay push religion into the classroom, this
book is meant not to evangelize one particular religion, but to describe
them all. Some Christians might not like it because it treats all religions
equally
Kathleen - The subject
is unfamiliar to most children, they need to be introduced to it in order
to have an interest.
Kathleen - ah, yes,
I see your point about why some might be worried
brock - Part of the
People are sensitive- I think exploration of various faith is helpful in
understanding our own spirituality; however, I'm not sure if this should
be undertaken at the elem. level
peggy - One publisher
I tried to line up asked me if the Christians "win" in my book. When I
said no one wins, they were not interested
Kathleen - brock,
I'm surprised to hear of a course about comparative religions at the secondary
level, that's good
Kathleen - brock,
the book does more describing and presenting history than going into depth
about the faith
peggy - I'm also
glad to hear about comparative religions at secondary level. It's all too
rare, I think
brock - Kathleen
it is part of the grade 10 provincial curriculum in socila studies
brock - Is there
part of the book that encourages children to explore their faith and the
values of their own religon?
Kathleen - brock,
I don't think the book contains anything of that sort.. peggy?
peggy - Brock, I
guess I presume that parents will help children explore their own spirituality.
This is for understanding all religions
Kathleen - no, just
the preface which concludes, "Bigotry begins with ignorance, and many of
today's children know littel or nothing about faiths other than their own.
We hope these pages will show them similarities and connectedness so that
they can be tomorrow's peacemeakers.
Kathleen - Well,
it's time to close. I'd like to thank Peggy Fletcher Stack, author of A
World of Faith, Signature Books, for appearing at Teachers.Net
tonight. :-)
peggy - Kathleen,
thanks for inviting me and for all the kind words about my book.
Kathleen - It is
my pleasure. Your book is special, I'm happy to have it.
