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Emma - Good evening everyone. My name is Emma McDonald and I am your host for the evening. I am a veteran teacher from Texas and one of the authors of Survival Kit for New Teachers. My teaching partner and I mentor new teachers in local schools as well as on our web site Beginning Teachers' Tool Box. Tonight's chat is an open question/answer forum. Please feel free to ask your questions, but remember that with a chat, it is hard to reply to everyone at once.
vicki - emma do you suggest any book for discipline problems
MrsF - Emma-any suggestions for a teacher in a temporary postition. I feel as though I am not really getting the chance to "start" out the classroom since it is the end of the year.
Emma - Vicki - what exactly are you looking for? There are several excellent resources out there for discipline depending on your philosophy.
Emma - Mrs. F - Yes, starting near the end of the year is difficult. Are you have any problems with your classes?
MrsF - I am working in a special education class. I guess one of my difficulties is that my aide has different expectations than I do based on what the other teacher did.
Bri - Emma,have you ever heard of success for all? If so how do you feel about it.
Emma - Bri - Yes I have heard of Success for All. I have never personally worked with the program and I have heard mixed reviews about it.
poco - mrsf, it is up to you to try to help your aide to understand that you have different expectations
Emma - Mrs. F - I suggest that you sit down with the aide and discuss your plans and her expectations. You may gain some insight into how the class has worked in the past since she has been there all year and you can let her know what you plan to do. That way you are both on the same page.
Emma - Mickey - what kind of sites are you looking for? Our site, Beginning Teachers' Tool Box has many links that are content oriented and can be used with students.
MrsF - I know poco, but it is really hard to change a routine for a group of 1-3 graders,especially when it is a group of special kids. I just don't want expect the kids to do all the work. I also don't want to keep putting work that has mistakes on their desk. It frustrates them and me.
Diane - This program that guarantees success for all children, does it really work. Do they all learn to read?
Emma - Diane - I have heard that IF all of the teachers follow the course EXACTLY as it is laid out, the success rate is very high. However, the problems that I have heard with the program is that it does not allow for flexibility or creativity on the part of the teacher. You must follow everything exactly as it is laid out for you.
Bri - No a few of our kids still do not know how to read. I have mixed feelings about it.
vicki - bri- i really do not think this Success for all is a good program because, you have group reading and it is hard to determine students with reading problems
dear john - I need to teach a lesson on a power point presentation. Does any one have any suggestion
Emma - Does anyone have any other questions regarding the classroom?
MrsF - Dear John, I did a quick one on the Three Little Pigs once.
suzi - thanks joni, you would think I would know that of all things tonight
Dave in Aust. - does it have to be an eductaional presentation john or just to demonstrate the use of PP?
MrsF - Emma-any suggestions for the Four Block classroom.
joni - How do you feel about reducing classroom size but without an assistant in the classroom (2nd grade)
MrsF - I was taught with the Whole Language concept in college.
Dave in Aust. - emma, what thoughts are there in the states regarding same sex classes in tradiotional mixed sex schools?
maude - how do you feel about year round schooling?
bette/tx - joni how many students?
bette/tx - dave i have read some info on it and it makes sense to have same sex class..with teens..lol
Emma - I'm not an expert in 4 blocks, but have had some training. There are some excellent archives of chats that are completely centered around 4 BLOCKS. You might want to check those out. I'm not trying to give the run around, but I'd hate to give you misinformation when there is such an excellent source of information in the archives.
joni - currently 20-25 with an assistant; it will be 12-15 without.
bette/tx - maude we tried that here and it did not work because we have a college and jr college and it did not work with thier calendar
Emma - Mrs. F - 4 BLOCKS is a rounded approach to reading and one that works very well with students.
maude - do you think that teacher assistants play a vital role in the classroom?
suzi - joni, that's a good question. but what about funding for the additional teachers needed to reduce class size
Dave in Aust. - bette, i want to propose it to the district director here for subjects traditionally "boy" dominated like science........
bette/tx - joni..i think you could do 12 really well without help...
bette/tx - maude..depends i have had ones that are useless...could do without them
bette/tx - dave..there are still alot of private schools here with only girls or boys..not coed
Mickey - Emma, Have you heard anything about them trying to do away with Sp. Education?
mbw - I am a first year kindergarten teacher and am having difficulties with one student who has suddenly begun lashing out in anger at a moments notice - I'm at a loss as to how to manage him. Any tips?
Emma - Maude - Yes! Definitely! When teachers have the use of a teacher assistant, there should be two professionals in the room so that more students can get one on one attention. However, I must also agree with Bette that it certainly depends on the attitude of the assistant.
bette/tx - diane i am with you..i like being off during the summer
MrsF - mbw-do you use a behavior chart
Dave in Aust. - bette, i am not in the private system, so these changes will not be readily made i can assure you
Emma - Mickey - Not in Texas! In the United States I believe it is against the law to "get rid" of Special Education because of the statutes that deal with special needs students.
bette/tx - dave i teach private but my children go public..could not do it here..parents are funny here..
bette/tx - Emma..what get rid of Special ed..hope not my daughter is in resource
bette/tx - emma it has to do with ADA ..too
mbw - Yes - I have been working with him all year with the guidance counselor who uses a reward system each day. His behavior got a lot better for a while and then recently the rewards don't seem to be working.
bette/tx - mbw are things differnet at home?
Dave in Aust. - mbw has a child that lashes out at a moments notice, what can be done?
Emma - mbw - do you know what is causing this anger? Is he having trouble at home, with friends, with school work?
Dave in Aust. - mbw, what is the home life like for this child?
MrsF - mbw-is there something going on at home? I have a student that is doing the same.
bette/tx - Emma...i could not even think of my child without resoruce and help for the rest of her school career
Emma - Sometimes students who are afraid or who have been hurt lash out in anger.
bette/tx - mbw have you talked with parents??
Emma - Have you tried talking to this student to find out what is upsetting him?
Glynnis - Regardless of what causes the anger, it is there. What do you do when the child stops responding to traditional methods of behavior management?
Emma - Have you noticed a rise in frustration levels while he is doing school work or working with other students?
mbw - His mom mentioned this morning that some students have been making fun of him - but he's not lashing out at them, he's been lashing out at other teachers. This has happened three out of four days this week.
bette/tx - i have a student that changes moods with what is going on at home...
Dave in Aust. - i am wondering if he is experiencing learning difficulties with maybe dyslexia hence the frustration he shows......maybe?
Emma - Mbw - He is probably lashing out at teachers because they are safer than students. He knows you won't deliberately try to hurt him while students may wait for him on the playground or after school to ambush him. Just a thought.
mbw - His mom also mentioned this morning, and I've noticed it also, that he tends to become very silly when someone upsets him. It seems that when the silliness doesn't work is when he gets angry.
Rachel - i had a student threaten to bring a gun to school and kill everyone in the classroom..he has extreme pyschological problems...he brought a knife to school at his old school
bette/tx - dave could be it..with my daughter with LD she is showing signs of OCD because she is spending more time in regular class room...so we took her to couseling...couselor thinks it is not OCD but a comfort issue
Emma - Sounds like a defensive mechanism. I'm glad you are talking with the mother. She may be instrumental in helping you uncover what is bothering him and how to help him.
bette/tx - Rachel..how scarey..our public high school in our sister town has had bomb threats for the last two weeks
Rachel - this is 2nd grade
Emma - I have found that a quiet corner often helps my students. I read the book about Arthur who goes to Australia (I think it is Arthur) and make my own "Australia" corner. Students can go there when they are upset or angry to give them a chance to calm down before starting to work. It has dissolved a lot of problems before they even began.
Emma - Rachel - Has this child been referred to the counselor? That seems a definite priority!
mbw - The guidance counselor gave him mom some information on getting him (and the rest of the family) into anger management classes. But I am becoming incredibly frustrated, because I don't know how to stop it when it happens.
Emma - It could be a cry for help or for attention. A counselor should be able to determine the problem.
bette/tx - mbw now is the thing is to get the family to go to couseling..
Dave in Aust. - hey emma........does that explain why we have all these frustrated yanks here in oz?.......rofl...j/k
mari/sa - How did your kids seem to do on the TAAS.
Rachel - yes he has been seeing a counselor...its scary thinking what he has been through...he has told me sooooooo much ...i couldn't believe it
mbw - We made a special place for him to go to today, but when it happened again, he refused to go to that place. He would stand infront of the lockers and not let the rest of the students get their snacks.
Emma - Mbw - You should try some sort of quiet corner or time out corner where he can go to calm down. Once he has calmed down then you can deal with them.
Emma - Then move him, but let him know that you will not talk to him until he calms down.
Emma - Texas Assessment of Academic Skills - TAAS - Done in the state of Texas.
bette/tx - dave can not graduate high school unless you pass it..
mbw - The thing is, when he does get in these "moods" he will do exactly the opposite of what you want him to do.
Emma - Mbw - You might also try some calming techniques with him such as counting to 10, imagining a special place that is nice, breathing in and out slowly, etc.
bette/tx - dave not sure most public schools teachers and students hate it...
Dave in Aust. - mbw, try using reverse psych then....tell him you want him to do the opposite of what you really want and see if he does that.......
Emma - Mbw - I definitely understand. Sometimes the best course is to let him know that you will ignore him until he calms down and that once he is calm you will spend some time with him and talk to him about his feelings. Most students who lash out like that are seeking attention and by ignoring them they are not getting the attention. However, if they know that you will pay special attention to them once they've calmed down, they will do so quickly.
mbw - These are all wonderful ideas - I feel like I'm being argumenative, but when he is like this, when you try to talk to him, he will turn and walk away. I ignored him today, after a while, and eventually he came around. But I wish I knew how to stop them before they got to the point of disrupting he class.
Emma - What about working out a plan with him while he is doing good. Agree with him that if he starts feeling frustrated or angry he can go to "Australia" and when you can you will join him there to talk about whatever is bothering him. I've used this technique before as well. Don't worry about being argumentative. We don't know what you've already tried and what you haven't tried.
Emma - Another thing that is helpful is to overly pay attention to him when he is doing well in the classroom or when he responds in a positive way. Then offer him little to no attention when he acts up. After a while he'll get the picture that attention comes to those who are behaving and not those who are misbehaving.
mbw - I let him chose a special place to go to today (he chose his seat at the table), but when he got angry - he wouldn't go.
MrsF - I've tried that with one of my students. He can use my special crayons and it works sometimes...its the other times I don't know what to do.
Emma - The main thing is to stay calm yourself. If you allow him to get you upset, it will only goad him into more misbehavior. He will be getting attention from everyone then because the whole class will be involved.
Emma - The more upset you become the happier it will make him. Take some deep breaths and try to focus your attention on the other students in the classroom. It is hard, but after a while he will get the picture and the behavior will improve. In the meantime, continue trying different strategies, work with the counselor and with the parents.
mbw - I wish I could overly praise him, but unfortunately, if he's not lashing out, he's acting silly - making sounds, talking out, climbing all over the rocking chair (both when I am and am not sitting in it.) He doesn't give me a whole lot of chances to praise him. But when he does, I definatley do it.
Emma - Sounds like you've done a great job! I bet you don't have many discipline problems. Correct or not?
Dave in Aust. - agreed emma....its a "game" he is playing to see which buttons get the reactions he wants to see.....if you, mbw, dont react to the way he wants (by ignoring him when he is angry) then he will not win the game..........
Emma - It definitely sounds like he is seeking attention and like he has an inordinate amount of energy. What are some ways you could channel that energy? What about asking him to be a special helper? Sometimes that works with students who simply need attention.
MrsF - mbw...sounds like you are doing a great job and have lots of support.
Emma - I can definitely tell that you are trying everything you can with this student. It is wonderful that you haven't given up on him! :)
mbw - He's 6 years old. And other than him I only have one other major discipline problem and that's just not being able to focus in whole group settings.
Emma - Dave - I've found that when my class is interesting and my students are actively involved through projects where they are the ones who must seek the information and must create something unique, I don't have any discipline problems. Students want to come to class and they beg me to stay. Now isn't THAT a switch? LOL! :)
mbw - I have given him special helper tasks before and when he has that he realizes that he has the whole classes attention and begins to act even sillier - to make them laugh and take their attention off me.
Dave in Aust. - my whole teaching philosphy is based around the premise that if the students have fun when learning they will remember more than if it is boring.......kids always remember the fun stuff......
Emma - Mbw - try some love, nurturing and caring with this student. Perhaps he is not getting enough of it at home and needs it from you. The silliness and anger all stem from a need to be noticed and loved. He is truly crying out for someone to notice and nurture him.
Dave in Aust. - try doing a class play and making him the "star"
Emma - Mbw - I certainly feel for you. It is stressful to have someone who is so constantly in need that they take up all of your energy, especially when you have other students who also need your attention. Keep trying and keep your chin up. Next year will be even easier and you'll have a whole new set of students.
mbw - You know - now that you mention it I think I may have fended one off this morning by giving him a hug - he didn't really accept it, but I did it anyway...
Emma - Dave - so true! I know that I am more likely to remember things if I have to do them myself than when someone else "hands" it to me.
Emma - Mbw - That's great! That is what you need to be doing with him. If he's not getting a lot of love, etc. at home, he won't know how to deal with it at first. But you can show him through modeling. He needs to know that someone cares for him unconditionally with no strings attached. For students who don't get much of this at home, they are literally "starved" and the behavior is a reaction.
mbw - He did a great job this afternoon when I was working with a small group and we were studying some insects that another student had brought in - finding the legs and counting them, the antennae, all the body parts...
mbw - After all of this I think I've realized that I may be able to fend them off with love and stop them with ingoring him.
Emma - Math is not my specialty, but I'm intrigued. We use manipulatives (math blocks) but don't call them MAB. Is it the same thing?
Emma - Mbw - I hope it helps. I know it is hard to think of what to do when you are in the middle of the situation.
laura - i have what i believe to be a similar case...however this is grade 12....
Emma - Laura - a bad discipline problem with a student who probably needs some nurturing?
Emma - It is much harder when you are talking about the older students.
laura - not really discipline...but deffinately somone in need of nurturing...this isn't even my student though
laura - it's an 18 year old female who has been going through a really hard time lately
mbw - Emma - I certainly concur with that statement...
Emma - We are teachers to everyone...don't you think? I find myself "teaching" kids in the mall... LOL! :)
laura - i started talking to her because i was concerned...and we've been talking alot since then
Emma - Do your talks seem to be helping her?
laura - she actually began to be dependant on me...hoewver she was aware of this and tried to stop it herself
laura - i think i've been more of a comfort instead of a help for her
Emma - It's good that she recognized it herself. Are you working as a type of mentor with her?
Emma - We could all use a good listener. It sounds like you are doing that for her.
laura - yes i am...i just don't know what to do now...is it safe to get this close to her? is it healthy?
laura - When I see her in so much pain it's hard knowing that I can't help
Emma - Laura - We all need friends. As long as you are staying in the role of mentor, I think that you are safe. It is not bad to get involved with your students' lives as long as you and they are able to separate you as "the mentor/ listener" from you as the "teacher/ authority figure". Several of my best mentors/listeners in high school were my teachers and one of the assistant principals.
Emma - You also need to be careful about issues that should be delt with by parents or a counselor.
laura - It's a bit easier since I'm not her teacher...I've actually set her up with various counselling appointments and been in touch with her parents and her doctor
Emma - Even though you've been mostly a listener, I bet that she feels you've been a big help to her.
laura - I hope so....but I feel there's only so much i can do myself...however i must be going now..thank you for your help
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