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Emma - Good Evening everyone! My name is Emma McDonald and I am the co-author of Survival Kit for New Teachers. I am your host for tonight's chat.
Emma - Just to let you know a little more about myself and my partner, we are both veteran teachers and mentor teachers. We do a lot of mentoring through our web site as well as with local schools in Texas. Collectively we have taught 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th grades. Whew! :)
Emma - Tonight's topic is Using Various Assessment Tools. I'd be happy to start with any questions you may have, or we can simply begin discussing what is out there and how to use it effectively.
Emma - Dyan and I also have a web site where we help new and student teachers entitled Beginning Teacher's Tool Box at http://www.inspiringteachers.com. If you have any questions not answered by this chat, please feel free to drop by and ask us your question through our mentoring services or on our message boards. Unfortunately, I am the only one here tonight as my partner just brought home triplets and is busy trying to figure out how to take care of 3 babies at once! :)
MsTeechur - I'm not a new teacher, but I'm investigating authentic assessment methods. I hope that's okay.
Emma - MsTeechur - Great! What grade do you teach and how long have you been teaching?
MsTeechur - This is my 7th year and I teach 9-12 grades.
Emma - What types of assessment do you already use with your students and do you find them to be effective?
MsTeechur - It depends on the course. I do a lot of hands on since I'm a voc teacher.
MsTeechur - In Network Admin. I do a lot of problem-based learning. Give them a problem to solve and have them apply their knowledge to solve the problem.
Emma - One assessment tool that I use frequently with my hands-on classes is the observation clipboard.
MsTeechur - I find the projects good if they are well thought out. Problem based is the best because they have to dig to find and explain their answer.
MsTeechur - Of course I also do regular pencil and paper tests.
Emma - MsTeechur - I use projects a lot to assess student knowledge. I find that if they can apply the knowledge to create something unique or to solve a problem, they fully understand the concepts.
MsTeechur - Explain the Observation Clipboard to me, please. That sounds intriguing.
Emma - MsTeechur - I create a spreadsheet with the students' names going down one side and leave spaces along the top to write in specific tasks I am watching for, behavior elements (on-task, off-task, participating, working as a team, etc.). I try to be as specific as I can for each "task" that I plan to observe or think I will observe. I put this spreadsheet on a clipboard and as I walk around the classroom monitoring and helping, I make notations on my clipboard. If I notice a student completing one of the tasks, I mark a check mark in the box and may put an abbreviated comment. This helps me later when I need to remember which students mastered the concept. It also helps for behavior documentation.
MsTeechur - Ah...so you're documenting outcomes. Okay, I understand.
Emma - MsTeechur - exactly, but it also helps me keep track of student behavior, etc. as well.
MsTeechur - Yes, I used to teach 8th grade...so I know where you're coming from. Hee hee. Not that some seniors don't need it as well!
Emma - Well...the same goes for 6th and 7th graders (especially 7th! :))
larry - (i do that spread sheet idea for homework and citiztenship , thank you Emma
Emma - MsTeechur - have you ever utilized portfolios to assess students?
MsTeechur - What other forms of assessment do you find successful?
Emma - I use portfolios quite a bit in my writing classes. I find that I can better assess where my students started and the progress they made during the year.
MsTeechur - I would love to do this, but haven't found how to apply it in Networking...maybe something I can work on for next year.
MsTeechur - I'm in the middle of creating a network admin program that is four semesters long. I feel like the portfolio idea might be modified to help the students create their own cram books for the certification tests.
gfez - In MN we are now using preformance packages to assess students. I find them difficult to implement, any suggestion on how to streamline the record keeping?
Emma - You could use the portfolio more in the way professionals use it rather than the way most teachers use it. I find that many teachers use the portfolio simply as a collection of work. However, I feel that the portfolio is best used as a tool for helping students critique their own work as well as showing where they began and how they improved through the year.
Emma - gfez - How exactly are you using performance packages? Is this similar to the portfolio or the Walk About?
MsTeechur - Interesting...what about as a journal of knowledge.
MsTeechur - thing that I did at the beginning of the semester was give them the final so they could see how much they would learn and I could see where they were.
MsTeechur - Using the idea of a journal (although not writing a journal, but saving work) might help them see how far they've come.
Emma - Yes, I think that would be an excellent use for a portfolio. In fact, my students keep something similar for math. We call it a math journal. Students give it a title page and several pages to use for the Table of Contents. As we learn new information, students create a new page noting down the new information as well as examples. We even keep a page blank to post sample work. Then, whenever students are stuck on a particular problem, they can refer back to their journal. This is also helpful for them to see what they have learned during the course of the year.
MsTeechur - It's hard to say right now because we learn a variety of things. It isn't like a writing course where they continually improve one underlying skill. They are learning a number new skills.
gfez - State Standards of preformance, each subject has a package of "projects' based on subject material. The intent tis to show application of concept but the record keeping is the pit fall. each standard has many packages to be accomplished. these are scored using rubrics. keeping records of each package seems to be overwhelming. I teach at the elementary level so I have each subject to contenten with.
Emma - MsTeechur - How do you grade your projects? Do you use a holistic grade or a combination of holistic and standard grading?
Emma - gfez - Have you thought about using 3-ring binders to help you keep track of everything? You could have 1 notebook for each standard and then have tabbed sections (1 for each project). I would create several spreadsheets to help you keep track of student grades/progress. Keep one spreadsheet in the front of each binder. Student names should be down the side and the names of the projects for that standard across the top. This way you can see which students have completed the various projects for each standard.
gfez - That sure sounds better than the file system iam using. Thanks
Emma - OR...since you have so many different subject areas, you could keep a huge binder for each subject area and then tab off the various standards with the projects behind the standards. Keep a spreadsheet for each standard since each standard has multiple projects to complete.
Emma - Doug...what types of assessment are you using in your classroom?
Doug* - anecdotal records, video, portfolios, standardized tests, diagnostic batteries, tests, tests, tests
gfez - As a first year taching i seem to be doing more paper work than teaching. :) Thanks again for the help is does sound more organized.
Emma - I use projects a lot to assess student knowledge. I like to utilize Bloom's Taxonomy to make sure that my students are able to show me simple knowledge, comprehension, synthesis, etc.
Emma - What grade do you teach Doug?
Doug* - Kindergarten, Reading Recovery
Emma - How do you utilize video as an assessment tool? I find that facinating. Also, how do you get around liability?
Doug* - with RR, we video hard to accelerate kids and share the video with other teachers. parents have to sign a permission thing
Doug* - I video kids in Kindergarten
Emma - Oh, I see. So you don't video the class as a whole, but individual students? Do you video them reading rather than using a tape recorder? How does the video help you better understand the abilities and needs of your students?
Doug* - video captures behavior that audo cassette leaves out (frowns, pointing, etc.)
Linda/2/CA - Hi doug--you should know that I just finished two days of doing running records of 2nd graders--Oh!!! my aching arm!!
Emma - Oh, I see exactly what you are saying. You are right about that. I usually use a clipboard with a spreadsheet to mark down my comments & notes about students when I see them struggling with a particular reading selection/novel, etc. I can see how video would be helpful in going back and analyzing.
Emma - Linda... our sympathies!
Doug* - Emma- saved files from Kid Pix makes a nice touch with conferences
SilentAngel - We had midterms on Tuesday...our kids dropped really fast from the start of the quarter.
Emma - Excellent idea...
Linda/2/CA - Yes--the other 7 classes had absolutely no idea at what level I should start at--so it was a lot of floundering around
Emma - SilentAngel...what do you think caused the drop?
SilentAngel - Our class averages for 5 classes is around a B- to a C-
Doug* - Linda- ouch- what happened with a two a day rule? LOL Next year we have been "told" that we are giving the Ypp Singer phonemic awareness battery. 40 min
SilentAngel - What caused the drop? Their failure to turn in assignments completed. I was the one that sent the e-mail earlier asking for help.
Linda/2/CA - well--they have been told that they have to do 2 kids/day now that they are benchmarked--and I am teaching K how to do PA assessments
Doug* - Linda- next time give the San Diego Quick- its a word test that gives grade levels...takes 30 seconds.....then start with leveled books...just an idea
Linda/2/CA - We use the one from Chapman Univ
Linda/2/CA - where can i find a copy doug?
MsTeechur - Angel, what grade are you seeing this in? I see this in high school. It is amazing the number of kids who have no problem with failing.
Doug* - Linda- have a friend with the Edward Frye Book of Lists
MsTeechur - I don't understand when this started. When did kids start getting the idea that schoolwork was optional?
Emma - Right...That is always a big problem for me as well. I started using a detention rule to try and encourage more turn-ins. Once a student gets 3 0's, they have either a before or after school detention. During detention they make up the work.
Linda/2/CA - Think I have that on order Doug
MsTeechur - I have these brilliant seniors, who will be "super seniors" next year because they just don't do any work.
Doug* - Linda- its great
Emma - I also try to send home bi-weekly reports for those students who are particularly bad about turning in assignments.
SilentAngel - About every two weeks, my cooperating teacher calls students in after school who are missing assignments.
Emma - Mine are the same way... :( And it is bad when you are going overboard to verbally praise students who do turn in their work...
MsTeechur - I'd be after school every night. Unfortunately that becomes an enforcement problem in high school with kids in sports. Coaches don't want to let their little precious ones off to work on school work. They DO have weekly study table, but it's nothing...a half hour a week.
SilentAngel - Today we had one student who had a b-ball game and couldn't come in. She had 3 missing assignments.
Doug* - Linda- are you training to be a literacy leader for CELL?
Linda/2/CA - What is CELL?
Emma - I see the problem there. Middle school students don't have nearly the obligations and with elementary students you can take away recess which doesn't apply to middle and high school students.
Linda/2/CA - SilentAngel--she is in danger of failing? And she is still on the team??!!!
MsTeechur - I'm trying to start a voluntary study club for teachers to refer students to, but unfortunately out of a staff of well over a hundred, only two other teachers volunteered.
SilentAngel - Well, this is how it works. They do a grade check every so often. Those students with failing grades miss ONE game. Yes, she is in danger of failing.
Emma - Not even the English teachers? What about creating a web site with a "Homework Help" message board?
MsTeechur - we have two middle schools. One has staff-wide policies for homework. The other doesn't. For the last six years I've taught the ones from the school that doesn't. This year I have 9th graders and nearly all are from the school with policies. Overwhelmingly I see a higher turn in rate and higher grades. Those that are struggling? Most came from the other HS.
MsTeechur - I mean MS.
Emma - Ah...practical research done by the district and they probably don't even know it. You should take some data and turn it in to show why ALL middle schools should have a uniform homework policy that is consistently enforced. This is a big soapbox of mine.
Emma - Sometimes I think we forget that our students must be taught how to study properly and how to keep themselves organized both physically and in matters of time. I know that I used to assume that my 6th graders already came to me knowing how to do those things. Now I spend the year training them in these skills.
MsTeechur - Mine too, Emma. We are losing too many kids. Yes, they must take responsibility for their own learning. But we move them from extreme structure in grade school to believing that somehow because they've hit a certain age, they are ready to take in on on their own.
Emma - It takes a lot of time on my part, but I feel it is worth it because they leave the grade knowing how to take notes, how to study, how to stay organized, how to turn in homework, be on time, etc. It takes a loving hand and a lot of repetition (which can get annoying for me), but it is all worth it.
Linda/2/CA - Agree with you there Emma--I spent the first month of school teaching my students how to do their homework--how to read the directions, writing, etc
MsTeechur - On top of that we move them on and move them on, no real consequences for failing and then in 9th grade we say "Okay, it REALLY counts now!" and expect that's enough to motivate them. That's why we have so many shell shocked seniors going "What do you mean I'm not going to graduate??" I agree about study skills...that needs to be a major part of their transition from elementary to high school.
Emma - MsTeechur...you are so right! I think a lot of the problem may be that many times the work is not meaningful to our students in the lower grades. They do it because we tell them to, but it is more like busy work.
Emma - I'm trying very hard to give my students work that is more meaningful. They are allowed to pick a topic within our theme of study to research and learn more about. They they are tasked to teach the rest of the class as much as they can. My students are really motivated to do this and I don't see nearly the lack of assignments as I do with my "bookwork" that I send home (which is necessary sometimes for practice, etc.)
MsTeechur - Right Emma, I agree. We need to not only teach them, but teach why they are learning.
onteach - I find one of the frustrations of sending homework home is the books that don't come back on time or even get lost. You have a child sitting through a lesson without a needed book or you have to take the time to photocopy. Anyone else find this a frustration? Solutions?
Linda/2/CA - It is difficult for younger students to do some of the type of work that you are discussing--they do not have the materials needed for this, much less the skills. And many times, at least in my district, there is no one at home to help them even with the basics
Emma - I have had that problem also (books not being returned). I requested several extra books to keep in the classroom behind my desk. A student was allowed to check out a book, but it cost them. I use tickets in my classroom as a form of motivation and students must pay me a certain number of tickets to borrow a book for the day. I do give out "loans" as well for students who don't have any tickets. When they earn tickets, they go to pay off their "debt" first. It works for me.
SilentAngel - My cooperating teacher has a ticket system as well, but I detest it because the students are ALWAYS begging for tickets.
Emma - Linda...I can understand that. Have you ever heard of Susan Kovalik? She has some excellent ideas on using the real world to teach our students even basic skills and concepts. All of the teachers in my elementary school use her system from the Kinder teachers all the way up to 6th grade.
onteach - That sounds like a good idea. I don't have a ticket system as yet but have had a few extra books to loan out for homework. That way only 1 or 2 books get ruined. Thanks for the idea.
Linda/2/CA - My students do a lot of real world activities--instead of math drill, they have to use the food ads to determine the cost of a meal
SilentAngel - How to you reach those students in your classes that are WAY below in skills, but don't qualify for help.
onteach - SilentAngel...what's a cooperating teacher?
Emma - I rarely give out tickets to students. I don't think that anyone should rely on a reward system to reward every little thing a student does. My kids really have to earn the tickets. I talk about them as if they are money and we treat them as precious as money. It helps them to appreciate the tickets more. We have a classroom bank where they can deposit their tickets to save for a special event, or when they really need them.
SilentAngel - The teacher I"m working under while I'm student teaching. My mentor teacher.
onteach - Silent...I see...I'm from Ontario, Canada...different terminology.
Emma - I try to work with those students one on one as much as possible. I teach my classes in series of short mini-lessons. After the mini-lesson, I hold a short practice session where I can walk around and observe who is doing well and who is having trouble. Once I know who needs my help, I have students work either in pairs, groups, or individually on a type of project that applies the skill. During that time I work with the students who still need to master the skill. We work in a small group. Usually the project takes a couple of class periods, so I have some time to work with each of my troubled students one on one.
onteach - linda....great math idea. We are using standardized testing now and 'everyday' math applications are a big part of our new curriculum.
SilentAngel - We have entire class full of _low_ students. I hate using the terminology.
onteach - Emma ....what's your class size?
Emma - For example...I may teach a mini-lesson on multiplying by 2 digits. I give the steps and do an example. Students write these "notes" in their math journal to refer to later. Next I give students about 10 minutes to do 3-5 practice problems. Once I've observed, then I assign the project which might be to create a grocery list and using the prices found in the newspaper, figure out how much it would cost to get "x" number of each item. While students work on this, I work with a small group of students.
Emma - I have 25 in my class, but I have done this with as many as 30 students.
Emma - Onteach...you should check out MathGoodies at http://www.mathgoodies.com She has some ideas for real world math. Also, Susan Kovalik has some good ideas as well.
Emma - Well, I need to go as well. Good luck to everyone!
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