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Janet/AR/host - Welcome to the Sub. Teacher's Meeting.
Janet/AR/host - I now have a sub page on my website. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5146/sub.html
chris - Due to my poor typing skills I gave left off the.com from John's web site. THe correct address should be : http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4532/mpost.htm
Janet/AR/host - I visied the site and found it very informative!
John/MA - Hello, all on live chat: another web page of interest: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4532/na-post.htm (National project Organizing Substitute Teachers
amy - just visited your site awesome!!
Janet/AR/host - Everyone should visit John's site. Very good!
John/MA - Question: have any of you any ideas on how to meet nation-wide shortage of SUBSTITUTE TEACHERS?
Janet/AR/host - John, one way I thought about is maybe a recruiting system. Maybe a business that recruits subs for schools.
Charlie - Well, also being from MA it has become very difficult to find subs in many secondary subjects.
Janet/AR/host - More incentives would help as well.
Janet/AR/host - I agree Charlie, the school I sub at the most only has 3 subs.
Charlie - What kind of incentives??
chris - Pay, health benefits
Janet/AR/host - Charlie, more pay, insurance, etc.
John/MA - There are such enterprises in Massachusetts, Pennsylvania; but mainly "temp" agencies; and pay just about as poorly as the school districts; minimal or no benefits; There is one in Wakefield Mass., called Opus that hires substitutes for several surrounding school districts.
amy - i need to check out your site further for some ideas. i did a one day subbing stint a week and a half ago--and the teacher left very little in the way plans
amy - it was a good thing there was a student teacher otherwise who knows what i would have done
Janet/AR/host - amy, that was very inconsiderate of the teacher. On my site are ideas and goodie bag ideas.
chris - can the role of sub be changed from long-suffering
amy - what grade are they geared towards?
John/MA - M-POST and NA-POST recommend creation of associations, groups in school districts; regionally, statewide; and then work eventually for creating unions to negotiate contracts for substitute teachers.
Janet/AR/host - What does everyone think is a reasonable pay for subs?
Janet/AR/host - chris, that is a good question!
chris - It depends on the local going rate for contract teachers
Janet/AR/host - amy, let the students know up front what you expect from them. And be consistant with that.
amy - i work in ny and the pay here is about a $100
chris - Thanks Janet for deciphering my message. I'm still new to this
Charlie - The district I am in pays 60 per day going up to 70 per day. After thirty days the person steps up to 27,000 per year.
John/MA - M-POST and NA-POST long range objective--SAME PAY and BENEFITS for substitute TEACHERS as for contract or so-called regular teachers--Two Ohio professors in 1997 study made similar recommendations and proposed "permanent substitute teachers."
Janet/AR/host - The pay for non-cert. subs is $39.00 a day and for cert. subs. $44.00 a day.
chris - Charlie, that's great! What other benefits do you get.
amy - wow--janet where do you work?
John/MA - Daily salaries for substitute teachers in Massachusetts range from $45 to $83; extremely low pay for our state's cost of living index.
chris - Hi Lauren, welcome. Where are you from?
Charlie - Other benefits include after 90 days, pay goes to actual degree and experience retroactive to the first day.
Janet/AR/host - John and Amy, it is no wonder there is a sub shortage here!
chris - In cambridge subs make $90 a dya , after the first year, which is$70
Janet/AR/host - Charlie, here there is nothing like that!
Marcia - California is suffering. With classroom reductions, schools can't get subs.
lauren - I am a student at Eastern Kentucky University. I'm doing a project in one of my education classes. would someone be willing to answer me just a few questions?
Charlie - Unfortunate, goods substitutes are still difficult to find.. and keep.
Janet/AR/host - There is a larger pay for long term subbing buy not much!
chris - Charlie, what district are you from?
Janet/AR/host - Sure Lauren!
Marcia - Subs are getting $80-90. I hope to start subbing this fall.
John/MA - Boston, Massachusetts, a large city, pays only $83 for daily substitutes; no benefits, even if substitute works five day week, throughout the year!; and very poor support from the Boston Teachers Union--most teachers unions (AFL-CIO and NEA) are not interested in organizing or supporting ourneeds.
amy - sure i'd be willing to try
Janet/AR/host - Same here
Charlie - Our district is in western Massachusetts: Chicopee, about 45 minutes west of Worcester.
Janet/AR/host - John, and that is why it is hard to find good subs. There were subs that were told that they would not be used again due to a teacher saying bad things about them.
chris - Charlie, do you know Jon Tetherly?
Janet/AR/host - Marcia, just join right in!
Janet/AR/host - John, another problem is that the teachers leave a lot of WORKSHEETS for the students for the whole day!
John/MA - Charlie: from John Thomson--suggest you contact Jonathon Tetherly, 1-413-594-9500, of Chicopee; helped organize Springfield substitutes into their first independent union with Food and Commercial Workers; new contract is excellent, arbitration, better pay, etc.
Charlie - CKnow Mr. Tetherly reasonably well, still lives in Chicopee, small world.
amy - janet--that is so true--i had a subbing experience last year where the teacher left a bunch of worksheets for the class to do and these were the same worksheets he had left the previous times he had been absent. i spoke with a number of those in charge and got absolutely no support.
chris - I spoke to Jon today to plan the agenda for the May 7 MPOST meeting to plan a state-wide sub conference in October.
Charlie - Hope I don't offend everyone, I am an administrator . Though I don't handle substitutes directly, I assist in hiring many for permanent positions.
Janet/AR/host - amy, that is terrible. Some have said here in chat that they feel like a glorified babysitter.
John/MA - Amy--from one with 13 years experience, I would advise speaking politely with the teacher; leave a note suggesting some up-date worksheets or other assignments; the children see through this sort of thing;
chris - Charlie, administrators are welcome, too!
Janet/AR/host - Charlie, you aren't offending me. subbing is the best way of finding a teaching position.
Charlie - Thanks.
Janet/AR/host - There is a wonderful website with free worksheets for all grade levels.
amy - i have a question-- what do you do if the teacher leaves something for you to teach and you don't know how to teach it. I find I always get math lessons and this unfortunately is one of my weakest areas.
Janet/Ar/host - http://www.freeworksheets.com/
Janet/Ar/host - Check out this site. It will help with fillin times.
John/MA - Hello, Charlie--pleased to have an administrator on the page; it would be great if more administrators looked into the real problems; I have an administrator friend, Jay Sweet, assistant principal of Nauset Middle School, Orleans, Mass., who seems to be one of those few administrators who agree that substantial changes are needed to attract quality substitute teachers--such as much improved pay, benefits, required professional training; respect, dignity,etc. I am meeting with Sweet soon on these matters; along with a Ms.Joyce Knippenberg, president of the Massachusetts Parent-Teachers Association-we must get more parents to insist on big improvements in way substitute teachers are hired and handled.
Janet/Ar/host - amy, do not feel bad about asking questions! Go to another teacher and ask for help.
chris - Amy, part of the problem subs face is that it is not clear whether we are supposed to be continuing the education of the class or just holding the fort.
Janet/Ar/host - John, here one does not even have to have any training and i am appauled at that!
amy - tell me about it chris i always feel that if i don't finish all the work the teacher leaves that it will reflect badly on me
chris - Jnaet, it is really shameful that subs do not receive orientations and training, considering the job
Janet/Ar/host - amy, I hear so many teachers talk bad about some subs for not finishing the work. But they have to understand that subs are called at the last minute and they do not even know the grade level most times.
chris - Amy, a new sub's conscience. You'll get over it!
Charlie - No doubt subs are paid poorly. Unfortunately, in negotiations the attitude seems to be that they come last, if at all. They are not referenced much in the teachers' contract.
amy - Chris i agree!! don't you feel as though you get thrown into this environment, handed a sheet and some keys and told to take over.
Janet/Ar/host - chris, it sure is and I think a sub should have some training and workshops!
Janet/Ar/host - available to them.
Janet/Ar/host - amy, i do!
chris - Now we're talking exploitation!
Janet/Ar/host - Charlie, I totally agree!
John/MA - Janet, et al--same situation in the large city of Boston--no training, all necessary is a bachelor's degree; and a police check; no professional courses; at least in Cambridge, Mass. there are some substitute teacher workshops-however, I am convinced that in most part of USA, the "warm body" syndrome is most applied by school districts, to get the cheapest labor possible; schools are fortunate to have the quality and caring of substitute TEACHERS and this is a JOB too, although grossly underpaid and not recognized.
amy - Janet--that is an excellent idea. how nice would it be if schools at the very least could prepare sub folders with information about the school and the particular class, important numbers and so forth
Janet/Ar/host - John, subs here do not have to have any training much less a bachelor's degree.
John/MA - On a positive,advocacy note: FIRST National Conference of Substitute Teachers, July, 2000, Washington, DC, being organized by a Eleanor Hinton, 1-804-732-0523; P.O. Box 1954, Petersburg, VA. Hope some of you can attend; specific dates to be set--agenda to include professional training, advocacy for substitute associations, labor unions, recognition, respect.
Janet/Ar/host - amy, I think it is a requirement that the school district has here.
al-IA - I am very fortunate to be in a pro-sub district. Everything is laid out for you. If there is a problem you are encouraged to take the high road and strike out on your own
amy - Al--that sounds like heaven
Janet/Ar/host - John, that sounds wonderful!
chris - Al, you truly are fortunate!
cherokee - I have been reading for awhile, and would like to offer somthing from another point of view.
al-IA - I think it is because they hire lots of subs here, so chances are the reg teacher has been in our shoes.
Janet/Ar/host - Al, that is great!
chris - Al, where is here?
Janet/Ar/host - go ahead, cherokee!
al-IA - Oelwein, Iowa. NE corner of Iowa
cherokee - I am a Title 1 reading specialist for a 1st grade class. I have had the opportunity of having to work with substitutes this year. What a disaster.
Janet/Ar/host - al, Mother in Law is from Davenport, Iowa"!
al-IA - cherokee, how so?
amy - uh-oh what happened cherokee
chris - Do you have a collective bargaining agreement, contract or union?
Janet/Ar/host - do tell, cherokee!
John/MA - Hello,Regina (Toronto?) Have had E-Mail contacts with the president of the Toronto Substitute Teacher Union--Barry ?
cherokee - I have not had 1 good sub this year, and in several cases, I practically took over the class because it was so out of control.
cherokee - Our day starts at 7:50, and 1 sub lost control at 8:05.
amy - cherokee-what did they do wrong
chris - Cherokee, is this the experience of other teachers?
Janet/Ar/host - cherokee, does your district have any classes or workshops for subs?
al-IA - cherokee, did you ever have the same sub twice
cherokee - They do not come prepared, my teacher leaves detailed instructions for the sub, and for me to monitor. the subs don't even bother to look at the instructions.
John/MA - Comment to Cherokee--perhaps you will get behind efforts in your school district to upgrade quality,pay, benefits of substitute TEACHERS, so that you can have a better experience in 1999-2000!
Janet/Ar/host - Also, did the teacher have a talk with the students before hand? Some here do that and they have the subs report back, via worksheet for sub, to her/him about the day!
cherokee - I have not had the same sub twice, and on several occassions went to the princ. and asked him to come into the room , or I was leaving.
al-IA - When these subs are called maybe the caller should tell them there are plans to be used and that they need to come in early to go over them with you .. That would help you out, wouldn't it?
Janet/Ar/host - Also cherokee, subs are at the mercy of the students!
chris - Can you talk with the subs about some of these issues?
Janet/Ar/host - that is one example of why a sub should have some training before actually subbing!
cherokee - I am in Az. and the pay for subs is terrible. Our class is very hard to control, and the sub is told that by the teacher, but I really do they beleive that their job is to baby sit.
al-IA - We are in the last 5 weeks of school. The sub jobs are coming fast. At a recent mtg it was suggested reg teachers see if there were enough subs before they take off. We are running on the short side
al-IA - cherokee, sometimes babysitting is the only way for everyone to survive.!!!!
chris - Cherokee, I think you're expectation says it all.
cherokee - A teacher in the next room did not come in today, and the sub was 20 min late getting there. So I went in to take attedance and hold the fort. I had them fine, and the sub came in, and within 5 minutes, it was a mess.
Janet/Ar/host - cherokee, was the sub new? If so, the sub needs to know how things go!
cherokee - The other assistant came in at 8:30, and she practically taught the whole day.
al-IA - Maybe you should have gotten the class into an activity to give the sub time to get her act together.
chris - Sounds like there are problems in the whole system.
Janet/Ar/host - al, I totally agree! But everyone always wants to blame the sub!
al-IA - Cherokee, that is why I am not to crazy about subbing in a class with an aide. In the first place the aides do know more abut what is going on than the sub.
cherokee - al, I collected their folders, got some math sheets for them started, but she said I could go, and as I left, the room started to act up, and the control was gone.
chris - The aide/sub issue has arisen in Cambridge. My feeling is that the the aide should take the teacher's place, and the sub the aide's.
Janet/Ar/host - chris, I agree!!!!!
al-IA - Cherokee, they could probably sense they could get into control and they did
cherokee - al, shouldn't a sub utilize the aide, rather than put them down?
Janet/Ar/host - chris, some districts do not have aides!
al-IA - chris, my sentiments, too
chris - I mean in the situation when an aide is also present.
al-IA - Cherokee, I would never put down the aide. Most do an excellent job and have the confidence of the students. At least, that is how it is here
Janet/Ar/host - cherokee, it seems to me that subs are not trained where you are and the same goes on here.
cherokee - I never step in unless the sub asks me, or if the class is starting to take control. When the class activity, is keeping me from doing my job, then I step in. I usually ask the sub if I can help, and if they say no, I just keep quiet and let the "good times roll".
al-IA - Anyone have any fillers for the ending of the year?
Janet/Ar/host - al, have the students leave a note to the next years class about their year.
al-IA - cherokee, then your sub is insecure or something not to accept help when offered
chris - Great idea!
cherokee - al, it is frustrating..
Janet/Ar/host - this could be done in many diverse ways!
Janet/Ar/host - Unfortunately I am unable to sub the rest of the year due to full time job's staff shortage!
chris - Good night, all! See you next month.
al-IA - Janet, any hopes of getting into full time teaching there. Not any here in this district anyway.
Janet/Ar/host - I guess we scared jag!
Janet/Ar/host - al, I don't know but I am getting my resumes and apps out to surrounding schools as well.
Janet/Ar/host - I am not just sitting back waiting for anyone to call. I am out there trying!
Janet/Ar/host - cherokee, thanks for all you input! You had some very valuable info for us!
cherokee - T^hank you Janet for allowing me to say it.
al-IA - cherokee, it should make you feel less alone. Everyone has your same prob!!!!
cherokee - al, maybe I am wrong, but I believe that a sub should wellcome any help, after all they are stepping into a situation that is unknown.
Janet/Ar/host - Thanks everyone for attending the meeting. Hope to see you all next month!
