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Janet/AR/Host - Hello everyone! Welcome to the Substitute Teacher's Meeting.
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie are you a Substitute?
Debbie/NJ - Yes I am. This is my 7th year
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, are you also certified and John are you a Substitute teacher and what grades do you sub for.
Debbie/NJ - I am certified. I got my certification in 1976, but I have never had my own classroom.
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie how has the subbing been for you?
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, how come?
John T./MA - What are your opinions about a national union of substitute teachers, as suggested by pambre on Substitute Chat Page recently?
Janet/AR/Host - John, I myself, think it would be wonderful.
Kathleen - John, it seems you will need that kind of strength to get what you need
Debbie/NJ - I love teaching, so if this is my only oppotunity I'll take it. Last year I was really busy(I worked 162 days.) Janet, I didn't teach when I first graduated because there weren't any jobs here in NJ. I worked in a bank until I started my family.
Janet/AR/Host - John, Substitutes are not protected in any way and I feel that subs are vulunerable to a lot of things.
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, I am cert. in elem. ed/spec. ed./and social studies and working in a hospital until I do get a teaching position.
Kathleen - John, do you think establishing a national union will be made especially difficult by the 'transient' nature of the Substitute population (I mean in and out of Substitute Teaching)
Janet/AR/Host - John, Also certified Subs tend to be overlooked for positions due to sub shortages.
John T./MA - With other substitutes in California, Virgnia, Florida, Massachusetts, we are working towards associations of substitutes, with eventual unionization, either with existing progressive teachers' unions or with progressive, advocacy oriented non-teacher unions, such as S.E.I.U. in California or Food and Commercial Workers in Massachusetts. Thank you. from a 12 year veteran in substitute work, and I enjoy the work--going in tomorrow in Boston with some first graders!
Kathleen - So, Janet, you are saying that you can be so valuable as a substitute that you are not hired for a long term, or permanent position?
Debbie/NJ - Janet, that seems to be the case in my district. We have a critical sub shortage. It sems to be the worse that its been since I started in 1992 and we just got a raise this year.
Janet/AR/Host - kat, yes in a sense! Such a sub shortage that if you are good they want to keep you there because of the shortage.
Janet/AR/Host - Well no raise here. Certified Subs get $44.00 a day here.
Janet/AR/Host - John, would a union help in situations like that. Making it difficult to pass up certified subs.?
Debbie/NJ - We get $60.00 (up from $55.00) whether or not you are certified and still classes are left un-covered.
Janet/AR/Host - Also would it help with benefits like health and life insurance?
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, what happens in that case?
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, what grade levels do you sub for?
Debbie/NJ - Well I give you an example. Since last Monday I have been subbing as an 1:1 aide for a new student in the district. He just moved in from out of state. Tomorrow they are interviewing for the position. I am not applying--for many reasons. Anyway, the teacher is on the interview commitee and there is no sub for her tomorrow. Her regular classroom aide & I will be alone,
Debbie/NJ - I sub K - 6
John T./MA - Although many substitutes are transient; many others, at least here in Boston and Massazchusetts, continue in this work for many years,(2 to 20); so we should organize associations, etc. to obtain much higher pay, benefits; also work with parents to set higher standards for substitute teachers.
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, that is very difficult for you and the students.
Janet/AR/Host - John, I think that is wonderful! It is definately something for subs to consider!
Debbie/NJ - It is especially difficult for the regular aide, 6 years and this happens a lot. Fortunately this class is well behaved and hard working.
Janet/AR/Host - But John, would it help those who are wanting a teaching position when one is open or even being considered.
Debbie/NJ - John, I love the idea of a sub union, but it would never happen here.
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, well that is a plus! The sub shortage is terrible all over I think due to the items that John mentioned.
Kathleen - John, if you could get better benefits and conditions, more people might make (would make) substituting their life's work, so you have that going for you when trying to organize and get the blessings of the powers that be who have to arrange for classroom coverage.
Janet/AR/Host - kathleen, i have to agree there. I would if I had better pay and benefits.
John T./MA - Perhaps I should say that I would have no problem with people seeking permanent teaching positions and qualified substitutes should have priority; my concern is for the upgrading of pay, benefits for myself and other substitute TEACHERS as we are expected to teach whenever we enter a classroom; at least that is the policy with most Massachusetts public schools.
Janet/AR/Host - At least it would let me devote my time to subbing and not a full time job and subbing.
Janet/AR/Host - I agree John, but it is not a condusive teaching enviroment when one is called at the last minute and you have to sub. Not able to prepare a teaching lesson that way.
John T./MA - Interested to know why a union could not be established where Debbie works in NJ (what city or town and why the problem?)
Janet/AR/Host - John, subs here do not even have to be certified.
Kathleen - Why not, Debbie?
Janet/AR/Host - me too John! I think any state or town would at least have to consider the possibility.
Debbie/NJ - No support. The teacher's union would most likely not support us.
Janet/AR/Host - But aren't there other avenues to research such a much needed union?
Debbie/NJ - John, how do you unionized statewide, when each district runs its own show?
Kathleen - Leo, tell us about substitute teaching in United Arab Emirate???
Janet/AR/Host - Leo we are talking about the possibilities of Substitute Teacher's Union.
Kathleen - Leo is from the UAE.
Janet/AR/Host - yes Leo, we would love your insight from another country on the issues of subbing.
Leo/UAE - Sub teachers in the UAE are ladies ONLY!
John T./MA - So Debbie and others, the answer is that if existing teachers' unions will not support substitutes' legitimate concerns and needs, then it is necessary to find other progressive unions, such as Food and Commercial Workers in Springfield, Mass.; and SEIU in Fresno, California; incidentally a Petersburg, VA substitute teacher is planning a National Conference of Substitute Teachers in July, 2000, in Washington, D.C., to concentrate on professional upgrading and improvement of economic status, through state, local and national associations and perhaps unions.
Debbie/NJ - Leo, I would also be interested to know what it is like subbing in the UAE.
Kathleen - Leo, how does their pay compare to that of fulltime teachers, and do substitute teachers receive benefits similar to fulltime teachers?
Janet/AR/Host - John, I was hoping you were gonna say that.
Kathleen - John, enlighten me - why won't teachers' unions support a union for substitute teachers?
Leo/UAE - When a teacher delivers, she will have 40 days holiday! In this case, a substitute teachger replaces her!
binnerB - Janet...getting off work...still a student teacher
Janet/AR/Host - binnerB, please try to attend another time. We have these meetings on the third Monday of every month.
John T./MA - Answer to Debbie's question: you develop progressive unions such as Food and Commercial Workers and SEIU, and they organize substitute teachers in various cities and towns; in Massachusetts, we will concentrate at first on larger cities, such as Springfield, Worcester, Brockton, Lawrence, Pittsfield, New Bedford, etc.
Kathleen - binner, you know we have forums here for student teachers, too. Do you belong to the student teachers mailring? use the student teachers chatboard? come to the live meetings for student teachers?
Janet/AR/Host - Leo, how come the subs are only women?
Leo/UAE - Kathleen, the substitute teachers remain in what we call here the Educational Zone. They receive the same salaries and benifits as the other regular teachers!!!
Janet/AR/Host - Leo, that is great! We do not here in the states.
Leo/UAE - Janet, because MEN don't deliver babies here.LOL!
Janet/AR/Host - Well Leo, do teachers not get sick/
John T./MA - Answering Kathleen question: Few substitutes are in teachers unions; and it seems that the teachers' unions, such as Fresno, California, Teachers Association, have not welcomed substitutes because regular or permanent teachers are afraid that by upgrading pay and benefits and professional status for substitutes would mean a decreasein their own pay and benefits; this was what the Fresno Teachers Union was quoted as saying to a Fresno news reporter last winter, unfortunately;
Kathleen - John, I guess as long as education is funded as it is, everyone will be afraid to work for better benefits for others, because they are competing for the same dollars.
Janet/AR/Host - John, I can see their point but I also feel that subs need some kind of support like a union as well.
Kathleen - At least they PERCEIVE that they are competing for the same dollars.
Leo/UAE - Janet, each teacher- I mean the regular teachers have another time table for substitution. Three periods per week for each one. If a teacher gets sick another one will take his class!!
Janet/AR/Host - Leo, I see what you mean now. Sorry
Leo/UAE - Janet. it's ok.
Janet/AR/Host - I know that I would be utilized in the schools here everyday it just does not pay enough or give me any benefits to do it full time.
Debbie/NJ - Subs need to have a support system as well. In my district there is no training for subs. Not even a handbook. You just get thrown in the first time. Some teachers leave no plans. I have even subbed for a few who won't allow you to use their plans. Go figure.
Leo/UAE - Janet, any other questions?
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, the teacher I subbed for would not even leave her grade book for me to do attendance today. LOL
John T./MA - Welcome to Leo from UAE, it is always exciting to hear how things are done in other countriess; I have traveled widely (including Europe, India, Kenya, Central America, but not yet to Middle East)
Janet/AR/Host - Leo, I get $44.00 a day here for subbing, how is the pay there?
Leo/UAE - John, you are welcome any time!
Debbie/NJ - At least we get attendance sheets, sometimes thats the only class list you have.
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, here there are Substitute Folders kept by some teachers here.
John T./MA - Note to Debbie, et al: with a progrssive union, there are fewer problems with lesson plans, etc.; as in Madison, Wisconsin, their Union contract requires that teachers and principals provide proper lesson plans, substitute folder and if this is not done, substitute teachers can file a grievance against school department, with union legal and leadership support!
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, I made a Substitute Message Sheet for subs to fill out and leave the teacher.
Leo/UAE - Janet, the full time teachers don't get paid for substitution. But ladies get full salary even if they didn't work!
Janet/AR/Host - John, that is great! I like that idea a lot!!!
Janet/AR/Host - Leo, that is wonderful!
Leo/UAE - I mean substitute teachers get full salaries.
Debbie/NJ - Each teacher is required to keep a sub folder in the office. They are supposed to be updated each year and initialed by the principal. They contain info such as fire drill info, daily schedule, class list, dittos, etc. Some of the dittos are so old that they were done on a mimeo machine.
Debbie/NJ - Janet, I have a Sub message sheet too. I have had a lot of positive comment from teachers about it.
Janet/AR/Host - Leo, do you have to leave your lesson plans and grade book and have a substitute folder for the sub?
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, I have too and it does help save some time.
John T./MA - Debbie--re professional training; in only 3 or four cities and towns in Massachusetts (where public education started inUSA) are there workshops and special training for substitute teachers; Boston, with 500,000 people and 60,000 students has NO professional training for substitutes; someof us have been trying for years to have such training, but to no avail; only professional training is for regular or permanent teachers. It is not cost, but shortsighted administrators for ournot having special training; only good plan i have heard of is in Utah, where there is a statewide substitute training project on an experimental basis in some cities and towns in Utah--look it up on the web
Kathleen - John, how much support are you receiving up there in Mass...what kind of turnout do you expect for your upcoming meeting in (is it) Worcester?
Leo/UAE - Janet, full time teachers teach from 3-4 periods everyday.Student have 6 periods everyday. In our free time, we can help our fellow teachers if they get sick or for any other reason.Yes, we leave our lesson plan.
Debbie/NJ - It would be nice if new subs were given guidelines. Some don't even know that they are supposed to come in before the kids, not with them!
Leo/UAE - But this system has its advantages and disadvantages...
Janet/AR/Host - Thanks Leo, the teacher that I am subbing for this week did not leave me lesson plans just a vague sheet.
Janet/AR/Host - Leo, what are some of the disadvantages/
John T./MA - Kathleen, et al--we are just beginning our organizing efforts; M-POST has now only about 15 members on its Executive Board, from various parts of Massachusetts--we are planning to reach out to more substitutes in the larger cities and towns, using Freedom of Information laws, to obtain names and addresses, to invite substitutes to join our new Massachusetts Project Organizing Substitute Teachers--initial objectives are political and legislative organizing, meeting in next few months with state legislators to try to get minimum standards for substitutes (such as B.A.or B.S. required--several cities and towns now hire high school graduatesin Massachusetts--no state requirements, only for regular teachers
Debbie/NJ - Janet, What grade levela are you subbing for this week, and how many years have you been subbing?
Kathleen - John, sounds like a well-organized beginning.
Janet/AR/Host - Debbie, I sub for grades K-6 and at an alternative school.
Janet/AR/Host - John, I commend your efforts!!!
Janet/AR/Host - OH Debbie, I am subbing for 3rd grade this week.
Leo/UAE - Janet, if the absent teacher teaches maths-for example- the substitute teachers might not be teaching the same subject. Students in this case will lose a lesson.
John T./MA - Note to all in conference: for more information on M-POST, try our new web site: http://www.geocities.com/athens/agora/4532/mpost.htm
Janet/AR/Host - Leo, I see, I get everything the teacher leaves done. Teachers expect that here and if you do not some really look down on that.
John T./MA - On need for more adequate lesson plans: if any of you go regularly to one school, you might suggest to principal that he/she allow you to work with a regular teacher to try to improve and upgrade plans; I did this one year at a middle school in Boston; plans were reviewed once a month; and updated; or suggestions went to regular teachers to update class lists, plans, etc. to minimize mimeographed plans!
Janet/AR/Host - John, great, today when I subbed the teachers sheet was ahead of where she really was. I found this out from the librarian.
Leo/UAE - Janet, any question before I get ready for school? It's 6 a.m. here!
Janet/AR/Host - In other words, she was behind schedule according to her sheet. LOL
Janet/AR/Host - Leo, no thanks for coming to the meeting! I enjoyed learning about subbing in your country!
John T./MA - Thanks to Janet, our Host; very stimulating conference and I will be watching for future ones. Am logging off now--have to get some sleep to prepare for my first grade elementary class at Boston's Kilmer School at 8:30 Tuesday--I start my elementary classes off saying "good morning" and then with chalk writing the big "R" on the board, ask what is it? some say reacing; but it is RESPECT and I explain that for a few minutes; and then start the teaching day. Good Night
Janet/AR/Host - John, can you come to more of these meetings to keep us updated on the Substitute Teacher's Union Possibility?
Janet/AR/Host - It is not after 10:00 eastern time and I want to thank everyone for attending. I hope more will show up next time. I will send out more memos via email.
Leo/UAE - No problem, Janet. I enjoyed talking to you. see you again. Have a great evening ya all!// Thanks to Janet!
Kathleen - Leo, have a good day and tell your students we say Hello! from the U.S. :-)
Janet/AR/Host - Thanks Leo!!! :)
Kathleen - Janet, thank you for doing another wonderful job with your meeting. :-)
Debbie/NJ - Goodnight all! Thanks Janet for another great conference. Talk to ya all next month.
