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Kathleen - Welcome to another HOT TOPIC discussion! The topic: Testing: What is it good for?? The format is open chat, all opinions welcome as long as they are presented in a professional manner. Okay, how do you all feel about the testing situation in your school, state, region, country?
Linda/2/CA - I have had children from Mexico in my room for 3 days and they don't speak any English--who score just as well, if not better on eng multiple choice tests as they rest of the class
Kathleen - yikes, Linda why are those kids even tested?
Linda/2/CA - the SAT 9 test in CA was presented to us before the standards were adopted--yet the test reflected the standards
Alan - The new legislation calls for children to be in school 3 years before testing.
Kathleen - Alan, the new legislation where?
Linda/2/CA - kat--those are the rules here--all students are tested unless it is written into their IEP that they will not be
Alan - I read in Ed Week - I believe it is a part of the ESEA reauthorization - educators were stating the 3 years was just pulled out of the air - no basis for it.
Kathleen - Alan, does that include diagnostic testing?
marykay - all students are tested in our school unless it is written into their IEP also
Kathleen - Education Week: http://epe.org
Kathleen - What is the first test your students are faced with?
Linda/2/CA - was it 3 years or end of 2nd grade--which would be 3 years if they started in K
Alan - I don't believe it includes diagnostic testing. I thought it was www.edweek.org - has it changed? It is an excellent resource for educators.
Linda/2/CA - Our K students are tested with assessment instruments to determine what they know--then they get Concepts About Print and Phonolical Awareness 1/2 thru the year
Alan - Linda, I think it was three years after enrolling in US schools.
Linda/2/CA - alan--here in CA, the legislature mandate that ALL students will take itd
Kathleen - yes http://www.edweek.org/ is the most direct way to access Ed Week, the other is the main site for TEACHER Magazine and Ed Week
Linda/2/CA - it has really put a lot of presssure on the students, to say nothing of the teachers, to raise scores
Kathleen - Test Anxiety : Applied Research, Assessment, and Treatment Interventions by Marty Sapp http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0761813861/teachersnet
Marcia/sub/Ca - so the teachers end up teaching how to take a test instead of teaching
marykay - we are feeling pressures in ga. to raise ITBS scores
Linda/2/CA - there are 4,000 schools here where the teachers are in jeopardy of either being transferred to another site/position or losing their jobs altogether
Kathleen - On Dec. 16 our discussion topic with Beth Bruno, school psychologist, will be Test Anxiety (students and teachers)
Kathleen - Yes, teachers do teach about test taking: Children at the Center : A Workshop Approach to Standardized Test Preparation, K-8 by Kathe Taylor, Sherry Walton http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0325000956/teachersnet. Acknowledges that tests don't always do what they are purported to do, but offers practical suggestions for preparing students for the inevitable
Linda/2/CA - that is right marcia--almost all my teaching has to center around the test--not what i need to teach them--but the test
Alan - What do you think about the IDEA standards and the increase in testing of special education students?
marykay - marcia....we do teach a lot of test taking skills, but we try not to let any academic area suffer
Alan - We tested 21% more special ed. students in '99 than in '98 and our scores are suffering - I have no idea how poorly we will do when we test the desired 98% of ALL students.
Linda/2/CA - alan--sorry to say, but my impression of sp ed is not at the best at the moment--I have too many students who I am told do not qualify for any help because they scored too low for sp ed
Marcia/sub/Ca - teachers are feeling just as much stress, wondering if they are teaching what's on the test or teaching the children what they need to suceed
Alan - I heard a speaker this week claim that Title I is driving the testing in the US - any opinions???
Linda/2/CA - did he say how title I was doing this?
marykay - Alan...that is certainly true in our school!
Kathleen - Stress Management for Educators : A Guide to Manage Your Response to Stress by Bettie Phd Youngs, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/091519077X/teachersnet/
Linda/2/CA - I heard that Title I has been around for 20 some years--and scores have not been raised
Alan - He claimed the legislation - which provides only 8 of the 300 billion spent in US schools - requires stringent testing and reporting.
Linda/2/CA - kat--I do not let the scores stress me out--but some of our teachers become very uptight about the testing situation here
Kathleen - Stress and Teaching (What Research Says to the Teacher) by Kevin J. Swick http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0810610817/teachersnet
Alan - Title I has been around since LBJ - there is a debate about whether it helps or not. My opinion is - how have students changed over the past 30 years - would our poorest schools even stay afloat without Title I? I don't know.
Linda/2/CA - Alan--as a teacher in a district located in a city with the 3rd highest poverty rate in the state--I can say that we probably would--we don't get that much money from title I
Linda/2/CA - and my school is totally title I
Alan - What about teachers hired by Title I, assistants, etc.
Linda/2/CA - none of our teachers are paid with title I funds--we have 5 aides for 28 classes who are paid with title I--where the rest of the funds go--district isn't saying--but I do know that the fed govt has cut the funding per pupil amount several times over the
marykay - Title I pays for five teachers' salaries in our school....two or three assistants....it might be hard for the local system to pick up this tab if we lost Title I
Alan - Whenever I speak to the faculty in a Title I school - I take a list of those paid by the program. I ask them to stand, and for the faculty to think about what it would be like without this portion of the staff. It usually drive home that Title I is more than just money for supplies, professional development, etc.
Alan - Linda - the fed. govt. doesn't set per pupil expenses - it is up to the district. All Title I records should be open to the public - especially parents - I would have a parent ask to see the budget.
Alan - Pizza' here - thanks for letting me voice my opinions. Have a great weekend.
Kathleen - What would you all change about testing if you could?
Kathleen - Are there benefits to the testing system?
Kathleen - An Atlantic Monthly article asking "How Fair Are the College Boards?"
Kathleen - The ERIC Clearinghouse on Assessment and Evaluation http://ericae.net/
Kathleen - An Atlantic Monthly article asking "How Fair Are the College Boards?" http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/95sep/ets/fall.htm
Kathleen - An ETS (Educational Testing Service) article, "Stereotyping Shortchanges Asian American Students" http://www.ets.org/aboutets/prasia.html#toppage
Kathleen - Since 1969, NAEP has assessed the academic performance of fourth, eighth, and twelfth graders in a range of subjects. NAEP= The National Assessment of Educational Progress, also known as "the Nation's Report Card," http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/site/home.asp
Kathleen - A very interesting and informative article from North Central Educational Laboratory: Critical Issue: Rethinking Assessment and Its Role in Supporting Educational Reform http://www.ncrel.org/sdrs/areas/issues/methods/assment/as700.htm
Kathleen - The Big Test by Nicholas Lemann http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0374299846/teachersnet Mr. Lemann will chat here at Teachers.Net in Feb or March. Check the Archives after the session to read the transcript
Kathleen - The IQ Mythology : Class, Race, Gender and Inequality by Elaine Mensh, Harry Mensh http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809316668/teachersnet
S.G. kinder - Here in Dallas the Hipanic population in schools in 53%, but the tests are geared for English only students. Many come to our district in the middle grades with no English.
Linda/2/CA - that is totally correct sg
S.G. kinder - There is a spanish test but, after a short time they are required to test in English.
Linda/2/CA - In my CA district, our LEP pop is 84%
S.G. kinder - We're getting many children into our area in their early teens and either they are not enrolling in school because it is so difficult to keep up, or they drop out almost immediately.
Linda/2/CA - hey kat--there was an article in the paper here today that says that students do better when they have natural lighting as opposed to tinted windows and fluorscent lighting--it was a scientific study
Linda/2/CA - it was aimed specifically at test taking
S.G. kinder - I have noticed many teachers at my school always have the curtains up and their rooms look so much brighter.
Kathleen - Linda, I wonder how scientific, which paper?
Linda/2/CA - my room has tinted windows and fluorscent lighting--hate both--am a natural light person
Kathleen - Linda, that theory has been around for decades, and I know that some studies do indeed confirm it.
Linda/2/CA - It was in the Fresno Bee--but the study was by a national think tank
Kathleen - So much of what is being touted as "new research" is recycled information that we have been implementing for many years. Everything old is new again. :-)
Linda/2/CA - wonder if theory about fluorscent lighting and hyper kids is true?
Kathleen - Linda, I'll try to find it. Thanks for sharing that.
Kathleen - Linda, I've believed it does incite some kids. It certainly triggers seizures in many.
Linda/2/CA - yes--kat--that is so true--I listen to others talk about the "new" teaching methodologies--then I find out that I have been using them for years--they just have new names
Kathleen - LInda, that's true about alot of what people are callling new brain based learning info too
Linda/2/CA - dumb me--I had to ask what onsets and rimes were ;-)
Linda/2/CA - and here I have been teaching prim for 30 years!!!
Kathleen - The early childhood brain info is not really as new as it would appear, but if people are moved into action by it, then that's fine with me!
Kathleen - Linda, sometimes we just don't know the labels, nothing to be ashamed of
Linda/2/CA - kat--I got a kick out of one of our teachers--she claims she learned how to do RUNNING RECORDS 30 years ago!!
Kathleen - Linda, yes, she probably did, under another name
