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Kathleen - Maggie, welcome to our first Travel Topics session:-)
Kathleen - Grace thank you for agreeing to spend an hour sharing, answering questions about your visit to Israel.
Grace/IL - I think it would be best for others to ask questions because I'm not sure where to start.
Kathleen - Grace, let's start by asking you what caused you to select Israel as a destination?
Grace/IL - Because I'm a Christian, I've always wanted to go to Israel. My mother went there in 1970 and I was so envious.
Kathleen - Grace, was your mother's visit a short or long one? Forming strong opinions?
moma h - what kind of reception did you get from the locals?
Grace/IL - Mom was on a tour of many places in the Christian world, Switzerland, Lebanon, Cyprus, etc. so she didn't have as much time in Israel.
maggie - Grace,, could you tell me if you had to go through a lot of security checks in order to travel there?
Grace/IL - Moma h, we were made to feel totally welcome. We stayed at a resort run by Kibbutz Ein Gev on the east side of the Sea of Galilee. The tour was exceptionally well planned.
Kathleen - Did you see signs of tight security?
Grace/IL - Maggi, the security checks leaving O'Hare Airport were very tight. They questioned us thoroughly and went through some baggage but mine escaped.
maggie - what about when you arrived in Israel Grace?
Kathleen - Grace, what airline?
Grace/IL - I think the tightest security we saw over there was on the first Friday of Ramadan. We were in the area of the Temple Mount. There is a ramp which leads up from the western wall to the top and that was lined shoulder to shoulder with Jerusalem police and the Israeli army. We NEVER felt insecure.
moma h - Do most of the people speak a little english?
Grace/IL - Kat, we went over and back on EL-AL. It's a long trip and we didn't have the best seats.
Kathleen - Grace, how much of the time were you with a tour group?
maggie - Grace, where you able to meet many local people while in Israel?
Grace/IL - Moma h, we didn't have any trouble with language. Wherever we went, people were quite bilingual.
Kathleen - After you left O'Hare, what stops did you make? How long did it take you to get to Israel?
Grace/IL - Kat, we were with Elderhostel from Dec. 13-27. Then we were able to join Margaret Morse tours for two days because part of our family was with that group and they had space on the bus. That's when we went to Masada for the Bat Mitzvah
Grace/IL - Kat, ours was pretty much a through flight. We stopped in Newark on the way over but didn't change planes. On the way back it was non-stop -from Tel Aviv- 12 hours.
Kathleen - Were you able to visit the homes of residents at all?
Grace/IL - Kat, no --- we stayed in the resort and in hotels but took many side trips throughout Galilee, then to Bethlehem, etc.
maggie - Grace,, what was your impressions of the feelings between the Irsraelis and the Palestinian'ss ....did you sense the degree of hatred between the two groups that seems to come across from news cast?
Kathleen - Grace, was this a busy tourist season when you visited in December? What was the weather like while you were there?
Grace/IL - Maggie, you've really hit on a sore subject. Over there they HATE CNN. Most of what we see on TV can almost be considered staged. There was an incident along the Lebanese border while we were in Jerusalem. Our group leader was also eager to get us in and out of Bethlehem because it was Christmas, Hanukah, and Ramadan all rolled into one.
carolinajoy - Grace, I wish I could get my mother online right now...she's been to Israel twice and is looking at going back this summer.
Grace/IL - Kat, the weather was like Georgia, in the 60s during the day and cool at night. Tourism is way down because of the negative press here. This was supposed to be their rainy season -- off season -- but they're having a drought so little rain.
maggie - Grace,, did you have the feelingthat Bethleham is a holy place still or has it been turned into something of a tourist circus?
Kathleen - Grace, what struck you first about Israel, you know, when you left the airport, what stood out
Grace/IL - Joy, I'd tell her to go via Elderhostel. One couple who was on their 37th Elderhostel said this was the best they'd had.
Grace/IL - Maggie, I took a very objective view. I didn't have any emotional feelings anywhere. The vendors are everywhere but we were able to go down to the cave beneath the church so that was neat.
Kathleen - Grace, did you have impressions that verged on mystical?
Grace/IL - Kat, we arrived at night so we didn't see much. The van that took us to Ein Gev went up and down and around many hills. Lights of villages were everywhere. I think the exciting part was going down the switchback curves into Tiberias and around the bottom of the lake to the east side.
Grace/IL - Joy, I'm in McHenry County near the Wisconsin border
Kathleen - Grace, tell us about your visit to the wall..
maggie - Grace,, please tell me,, did you have the opportunity to sample any local food? If could you describe it and tell me if you liked it?
Grace/IL - Kat, nothing mystical, just a lot of understanding. It was neat to see the place where the pigs ran into the sea, to stand where King Ahab's horses had paraded, and to see where Jesus preached the Sermon on the Mount. Bolt, Beranek & Newman did a study there and noted that 10,000 people could hear a single voice. It's a natural amphitheater.
Grace/IL - Ann, first the food. All of the food was middle east cuisine. At noon on Christmas Eve, Hubby and I found a McDonald's in Jerusalem just to have a taste of home.
Kathleen - Grace, then a tremendous sense of history, ages
Ann/LA - Grace - how much did you pay over there for that hamburger? :)
Grace/IL - Ann, your safety is not at stake. Nobody in the Arab world is going to lob a rocket at Jerusalem and hit the Dome of the Rock. We felt safe everywhere.
Kathleen - Grace, is there a mix of old and new? Modern and ancient? Is that mixture evident in living standards, or just in the historic sites?
Ann/LA - Grace - was the Dead Sea awesome?
Grace/IL - Yes, Kat, a tremendous sense of history. The western wall was interesting. Lots of people go there and leave notes in the cracks in the wall. People sit there and meditate and pray.
Grace/IL - Ann, prices were quite equivalent to here but you should have seen the SIZE of that Big Mac!
Ann/LA - Grace - okay, I'll bite - How big was it? LOL
Kathleen - Grace, is it a babble of voices and languages, or is it very quiet at the wall?
dodo - Is it true that they have McDavids restaraunts?
Grace/IL - Ann, the Dead Sea is very low, partly because of the drought and partly because most of the water from the Jordan River is used throughout Israel. Most of what we saw of it was from atop Masada -- a fascinating barren place.
Grace/IL - Kat, it's quite quiet at the wall. It wasn't terribly crowded there.
Ann/LA - Grace - I would think so! I teach the Dead Sea in science lessons. It would be so nice if the kids could actually see it.
Grace/IL - Ann, I don't remember exactly -- perhaps twice the size of the ones we get here.
Ann/LA - What's the weather like?
Grace/IL - Dodo, I'm trying to think about the McDavids. I have a feeling we may have seen one. All of the fast foods places are making their way there just as in the rest of the world.
Kathleen - Grace, are many of the important historic/religious sites preserved in a setting that conveys age, or are they surrounded with the modern?
dodo - I was there about 10 years ago and I thought I remembered eating at a McDavid, but I wasn't sure. It seemed to be modeled after McDonalds
Grace/IL - Ann, if you send me an e-mail later and give me an address, I can blow up one of my pictures and send it to you
Kathleen - I'm interesting knowing how cosmopolitan vs. ancient the atmosphere is
Ann/LA - Grace - that is so nice of you. What is your address?
Kathleen - interested in knowing :-/
dodo - I probably missed alot during the first half hour of your talk, but I was wondering how long you were there and did you go in a group?
Kathleen - Grace, did you visit Bethlehem?
Grace/IL - Kat, many of the historic sites are just now being excavated and those are wonderful. Others are buried below layers of civilizations. We stood on Caiaphus front porch (patio) but so much is below churches. The Church of the Anunciation in Nazareth covers the entire town from Jesus' time. We were able to get down under the church to part of the excavation. Most tour groups don't get to go there.
Ann/LA - Oh, I found it! :)
Kathleen - Tell us about Bethlehem at Christmas
Kathleen - Grace, so being with Elderhostel made sites available to you that otherwise wouldn't have been?
Kathleen - dodo, Grace was there for 18 days, part of the time with a group
Grace/IL - Kat, the old city of Jerusalem remains quite as of old. The streets are only walkways and shops are just little places in the wall. I'd compare them to opening up our rows of storage barns and doing business from them.
Kathleen - So, there are still places where, if you blocked out the modern sounds and clothing surrounding you, you could believe you are back in the time of Christ?
Grace/IL - We were in Bethlehem the Monday before Christmas. It was very quiet there -- not many people. It was the only place we saw Christmas trees and they were remodeling one of the churches, trying to get it ready for Christmas. We spent Christmas Eve at Notre Dame Church in Christmas -- a Catholic mass in four languages so it was very long but they had a marvelous men's choir from the Fiji Islands who sang carols in their own language. Very impressive!
dodo - wow! what a way to spend the Chrismas season!
Ann/LA - Did you see the Sea of Galilee?
Grace/IL - Kat, I think so -- particularly in Galilee and on the east side of the Sea of Galilee. The Golan Heights are also quite remote. I can understand why they are so important to Israel.
dodo - Did you eat some fish by the Sea of Galilee?
Ann/LA - Are there a lot of olive trees?
Kathleen - Grace, were there ever moments when you were awestruck?
Grace/IL - Ann, I guess you missed the earlier posts. We spent our first week at Ein Gev Holiday Village on the Sea of Galilee. It was right on the shore and each morning as we opened our curtains, we looked out on the sea (lake). We also dipped our feet into it. Saw it from every angle from the mountain tops surrounding it and took a boat ride across it.
Grace/IL - Dodo, yes, we at St.Peter's fish in a restaurant at Kibbutz Ein Gev. You've brought up a good point. Our tour guide pointed out the social stature of some of the disciples. He spoke of Zebedee and Sons Fishing Company. These men were not poor.
Kathleen - Grace, you related on the chatboard some interesting information you learned during your Elderhostel classes. What classes did you participate in, and what are some things you learned that you would like to share here (for Ex. the translation of 'carpenter'/mason}
Grace/IL - Ann, I think the most olive trees we saw were on the Mount of Olives. Israel is fairly barren of trees but they are doing a lot of tree planting because it helps to make rain. The land was decimated even before the time of Christ for two reasons. One is that the lumber was used for battering rams and the other is that people were taxed according to the number of trees on their property so they cut them down.
Ann/LA - How interesting!
Grace/IL - Kat, awestruck -- not really. As I said, I went with quite an open mind, expecting that everything would be covered over so I just appreciated everything I saw. Also, the Elderhostel classes. The whole tour was on the Life of Christ. Our main lecturer was Dr. Randall Smith, director of the Jerusalem Institute. He has his undergraduate degree in Bible, his master's in archeology, and his doctorate in comparative religion. Every place we went, we learned so much that it's hard to sort it all out. I've really worked with my pictures, etc., trying to relive it.
Ann/LA - I can relate! I imagine the more you learned, the more you realized you needed to know! What a great privilege for you to be able to go on this trip! :)
Kathleen - Grace I was fascinated to learn that there is probably an incorrect translation that leads us to the misconception that Christ was a carpenter, based on the fact that most buildings were constructed of stone, that probably the translation would more accurately be "stonemason".
Grace/IL - One of the fascinating places was at the Biblical Resources Study Center in Ein Karem. Here they have created a Scripture Garden with a threshing floor from the time of Ruth and Boaz, a tomb, the crosses, a wine press, an olive press, a Beduoin village, a sheepfold, etc.
Kathleen - Grace, for the average tourist, what is the best means of transportation between the most popular sites?
Grace/IL - Kat, the original term is 'tektron' or builder. It would probably be a person with knowledge of all the building trades. Because of the raw materials available there, one really can believe he was more stone mason than carpenter. So much of our interpretation of the Bible relies on information available in the 1600s when our Bibles were translated into English.
Grace/IL - Kat, I'd go with a tour group. Many of the sites are in outlying areas and you'd have to know where to go. Else, the best bet would be to rent a car.
Kathleen - Compared to other countries you have visited, how does the cost of a vacation in Israel compare and what is the comfort level in lodgings?
Grace/IL - Cost is probably right in line with other places. Lodging was adequate. We had either a shower or combination shower and bathtub -- private bathrooms, etc.
Kathleen - Grace, what was most surprising for you about Israel?
Grace/IL - The color of the land. Even Jerusalem is only one color -- tan stone. Building codes require that every new building be faced with Jerusalem limestone.
Ann/LA - Grace, what is your favorite souvenir?
Kathleen - What special souvenirs did you carry back with you? Are there any especially good buys on any particular goods there?
Ann/LA - Great minds on the same track :)
Grace/IL - I bought only one souvenir -- a plate illustrating a mosaic floor of the loaves and fishes.
Ann/LA - I imagine that is simply gorgeous - ya got a picture of it?? :)
Kathleen - Grace, how would you sum up your impression of Israel?
Grace/IL - I also brought back flat olive wood ornaments for the Christmas trees of family members. At my stage of life, I collect very little. We're trying to get rid of most of what we have.
Grace/IL - Kat, I'd go back. There's so much more I want to know. I don't think that will come to pass, though, because there are so many other places to visit Sum up the visit -- Israel is a wonderful place at this time. I think they are going to have some rough times ahead, not only from external pressures but also from the differences inphilosophy of the various Jewish sects.
Kathleen - I hope that people can come together in peace.
Kathleen - Grace, this has been a very interesting session! The transcript will be a wonderful 'first edition' for the Travel Topics section of the popular Teachers.Net Archive at http://teachers.net! Thank you for being so generous with your time! Next month Leo of United Arab Emirates will "host" us in his country.
Ann/LA - Grace - thank you for sharing your memories! :)
Kathleen - Grace, perhaps you will host about another of your trips?
Ann/LA - Kathleen - it's always nice seeing you. :)
Grace/IL - Also, we've decided that one should wear only black because colors mark one as a touris (LOL) Hubby says the first danger is the traffic, the second danger is the vendors, and the third is the terrorists. He also notes that one- third of the people drive buses or taxis, one-third have shops, and the other third rides the buses and taxis to the shops.
Kathleen - Your husband sounds like a lively travel companion :-)
Grace/IL - It's been fun being here. We can think about another trip but they're not quite so fresh in my mind.
Kathleen - Grace, is there bartering in the shops, or are prices fixed?
Grace/IL - Ann, do e-mail me and I can also send you a picture of the plate. It's beautiful.
Ann/LA - Grace - I have already sent you an e-mail. Your offer was too good to pass up. :)
Grace/IL - Lot's of bartering. We have wonderful stories about our shopping experiences -- Hubby was offered 500 camels for me and one shopkeeper dressed him up so I call him Yassir Bob.
Kathleen - LOL! 500 camels, you must be SOME WOMAN!!
Ann/LA - Grace - you were insulted, right? I mean -- I would think at least l,000 camels would be fair! LOL
Grace/IL - Everything is relative -- perhaps he should have sold me.
Kathleen - Grace, give our regards to Yassir Bob, and thank you again. I am logging off now and look forward to another Travel Topic. :-) Good night
