JRDinNJ - Hi all, can anyone give me suggestions on getting that 1st ap job!
Kathleen - JRD, that 1st admin. job?
JRDinNJ - yes, I am looking
JRDinNJ - very depressed at districts inconsideration on not informing of their selections
JRDinNJ - I do well in interviews then nothing
MEL - JRD you are in New York correct?
JRDinNJ - NJ cert in NJ/NY
Kathleen - How many interviews?
JRDinNJ - I have had up to 10 & counting
Kathleen - JRD, all within your area of certification?
JRDinNJ - when I follow up I m told i was excellent but....
MEL - I think you need to remember that you are going from a potential of 25 to 50 or more job positions though not all available at the same time (teaching) to perhaps one on a campus as an administrator JRD
JRDinNJ - yes Im cert, admin/supervision, principal
Kathleen - JRD, are you applying in your district?
JRDinNJ - true, i had a superintendent call me today to tell me I was not selected and he lamented the lack of good quailified candidates, they hired from within
JRDinNJ - I am not working now
MEL - I found that many of the interviews I had were dead ends regardless of how good I may have been because they only hired from within
Old Chris - why have interviews if that is the case?
JRDinNJ - the district must do that, makes it look good.
MEL - Chris, I believe it has to do with legalities of posting the opening and meeting a criterial so it doesn't look like discrimination
Kathleen - JRD, what was the rest of the "exellent but..." did you get ANY feedback?
JRDinNJ - exactly
Deb/WI - I've had the same problem Mel. Interviewed for many jobs only never to hear from them again.
JRDinNJ - yes they told me i am a quality candidate, exceptional, but want someone w/curriculum exper or some other exper, etc.
Old Chris - Here, if they interview you, they let you know one way or the other
Kathleen - JRD, how mobile can you be?
MEL - I can only say to those of you who are trying to find a job not to give up. It is almost embarrassing to tell how many interviews I had and how long I searched for a job. It took me several years. Sorry to be so depressing but it did finally happen for me
JRDinNJ - they DO NOT let you know, i was told i would hear today 1 way or other, u know what no call
JRDinNJ - I am flexible to location, I have interview in RI on Tues
Old Chris - I agree. I had given up and finally got a principal's job
Deb/WI - There are many places looking in the midwest JRD. Unless you're intent is to stay on the east coast.
MEL - I think in many cases they are looking for people who have the moxey to call and see what is going on. Even if you don't get that job sometimes the person with whom you talk passes your interest and persistence along to someone else in the district
MEL - n2, I am delighted to finally connect with you. Everyone in the teacher room told me you were an administrator but I never met up with you
Deb/WI - I've done that Mel. I found a job as a Title I coordinator in a district that I've tried to get into for the past four years. It's not guidance or administration but it's a foot into the district.
MEL - Sometimes Deb I guess you have to prove yourself with people in one position and then move on from there
n2kids - Nice to meet you Mel!
Deb/WI - That's true Mel. I've been able to do my internship as a principal in this district anyway so that also gives me the experience I need :)
Kathleen - JRD, that's a good idea, to get some experience in a coordinator position, how do you feel about that?
JRDinNJ - so any suggestions
MEL - I found the district where I taught for so long here in Texas had a hidden agenda with the people they placed in administrative positions. Where I am now I suppose there are politics but I find they are much more concerned about finding good people too.
n2kids - Is anyone experiencing the teacher shortage crunch like we are here in SC?
Kathleen - n2, not in Conn.
Deb/WI - Ours in more of a sub shortage than teacher shortage, but the bigger districts still have unfilled positions.
Old Chris - Nova Scotia-- Gettting hard to gets sub. And will be worse after the term positions are fild
n2kids - It's awful here. EVERYONE has vacancies!!!
MEL - We also have a terrible sub shortage in our district. We get some absolutely terrible people in to sub or worse yet no one shows up
JRDinNJ - I am flexible but depressed especially after im told i am exceptional candidate keep trying
MEL - JRD what level do you have the most experience in?
Deb/WI - We've just had a new law added for certification in our state. If you've attended college or worked out of state in the last 20 yrs you have to be fingerprinted now.
Old Chris - In the next 6 years we will have 3500 out of 10,000 teachers eligible to retire
Kathleen - JRD, you have to stay 'up', it will show if you feel discouraged,
JRDinNJ - 14 yrs Soc. studies teacher
n2kids - Deb, we have that here in SC.
JRDinNJ - I know i am always up for interview
Old Chris - It was like that when I started in 1969
MEL - A wonderful superintendent who spoke at one of my leadership classes told me you need a "rabbi". He said you need to get to know someone with some pull in the district. Jrd is there some way you could get a position where one of the supers in the district can see and take note of your work?
Old Chris - In Nova Scotia you have to have a police record check and a child abuse register check to be hired for any school position
n2kids - JRD do you ever ask the interviewer what you could do to improve your interviewing skills?
Kathleen - Old Chris, similar in Conn., fingerprints
JRDinNJ - well i did my internship in NYC and prospect there a plentiful, problem is beauracy ( sp?) is so bad it takes 6 mos to yr to fill positions
JRDinNJ - Yes I alway followup after interview told i am excellent
Deb/WI - We have background checks done all of the time but the fingerprinting is new. The worse part about it though is that people who've been in the district already for 15 yrs have to have this done. This is only for recertification purposes not hiring on the fingerprinting.
Kathleen - JRD, maybe you should be applying in inner city schools where that NYC experience would be seen as an asset
Old Chris - Only new hires need the checking
JRDinNJ - I have, i think politic is key
Deb/WI - I think not limiting oneself is important also JRD. I applied to the private and parochial schools also.
MEL - What about the principal in the school where you currently are JRD? Can that person be of help to you?
Jukie - What do you think of total inclsion with no other options?
JRDinNJ - I was told by catholic and private schools unless u have exper in those schools not to apply
MEL - Deb is right about that. I went to classes with a guy who was a "head Master" in a special school
Kathleen - JRD, I don't think that can speak for all parochial and private schools.
JRDinNJ - I am not working, i did masters in 1 yr after leaving teaching for business venture
Kathleen - JRD, how long have you been 'out of' education?
Deb/WI - That's not true JRD. In the parochial schools it helps if you're the same religion when interviewing but not totally necessary.
Jukie - What is the status of inclusion i your districts?
Deb/WI - It doesn't always work Jukie. You have too many kids that can't function at a full inclusion level.
JRDinNJ - I am RC and was told my NYC arch. since I never taught in catholic school i would be interviewed
n2kids - Jukie, I only have resource students at my school. The other special education students are housed at another school.
MEL - JRD please don't take this the wrong way but you are giving the impression of being terrible discouraged with those of us who want nothing but to help you. Do you think perhaps that is subconsciously coming through in your search and face to face interviews?
Deb/WI - Doesn't hurt to try JRD. I just converted when I got married 3 yrs ago to Catholicism and they call me for interviews without resumes. But our parochial schools here do not pay well. That's one major drawback.
Jukie - With inclusion, there are more staff than ever...yet the program is less effectiv
JRDinNJ - not at all i am looking for advice on how i can get that job, I know where to go to get it
Deb/WI - I can think of a few students that would drive a teacher nuts if they were in a full inclusion classroom. Of couse there would be an aide but these two can't function in a larger class effectively and it hurts the rest of the class.
Jukie - the important element lackin with inclusion is planning time
Kathleen - Please e-mail me at kat@teachers.net so that I can communicate about ideas for future meetings.
Jukie - well, if students aren't fully included...aren't you open to litigation
Old Chris - Maybe we could set a topic list in advance
MEL - I apologize JRD I didn't mean to offend you if I did
JRDinNJ - not at all i am open to any suggestions, but believe me i have tried everywhere
n2kids - I have some really hard working teachers for the most part. Principals what do you do to show appreciation. Teachers have you received anything special from your principals?
Kathleen - Yes, a marriage proposal! :-) LOL!!
n2kids - Kathleen, you're married to the principal?
Kathleen - [that was just one of my principals. The one I marriedm:-)]
Kathleen - my husband is now retired (he's somewhat older ;-)
JRDinNJ - I appreciate ur candor
Deb/WI - Not if it is set up in the IEP that there be some pull out to a resource room. The parents have to agree to it during the meeting. Most of them are pretty good about this and realize it is the best for their children.
Kathleen - JRD, but you are ruling out possibilities based upon opinions that might not be the rule in other places...IMHO :-)
Jukie - In our district the vast majority are included..visually impaired, aspbergers, Turets, Brittle bone...
JRDinNJ - I spoke with superintendents of Catholic schools in NY & NJ and private schools in ME/Mass all said same thing, if u have no teaching exper in those types of school they willnot interview me
Jukie - It has become a management nightmare for the classroom teacher
MEL - N2, I work with a young man who is the principal and has far less experience than I and was a PE teacher to boot. I have 26 years in a variety of grades and sp. ed. I am the "pumper-upper" on the campus. We have "drop in the bucket" buckets where we give each other a raindrop with positive comments. I write notes to teachers frequently. I comment positively on their lesson plans. Visit often and leave little messages and I called many businesses and requested freebies that I share with them once in a awhile.
Deb/WI - Oh ours are too Jukie even our little boy that's autistic but they are still pulled out for special services or OT/PT. some need help with reading, etc.
Kathleen - JRD, sounds as though I'm wrong, then :-( Is there a reason why you haven't applied in Conn. ? You have been in every state surrounding :-)
Kathleen - MEL, that sounds wonderful!
JRDinNJ - I have applied in CT now responses
Kathleen - As a teacher, I can tell you that it is important to show up when the teachers 'put on' a show, a writers' fair, etc. and to comment on the work and result
n2kids - Mel, this is my third year as principal and I'm in a district with not much business at all but I'm trying to get freebies as well!
Kathleen - JRD, Conn is tough, lots of educators coming down from Mass. for the higher salaries
Jukie - Deb...there seems to be dual delivery of special services
Kathleen - JRD, you'll just have to keep on going for interviews. I missed your response to how long have you been away from the ed. field?
JRDinNJ - I see, Im going to RI tues
Doug/CA - Hello, I am a classroom and RR teacher. I hope I can still join in on the chat
JRDinNJ - 5 yrs away but worked in NYC this past spring
MEL - N2 this may sound silly but I went through my pantry and wrote to major companies like Kelloggs and General Mills and Jergens etc. Jergens sent me enough hand soap and had cream tubes for my who faculty. I got a lot of "can't help you" letters too but I got many things just by asking and they sent them to me
Kathleen - Doug, we can offer the teacher's perspective:-)
Deb/WI - JRD if you're mobile try states towards the mid-west or mountain regions. Many principals are retiring leaving openings. and we don't care if youhaven't worked in a private or parochial school as long as your licensed and qualified.
Kathleen - Doug, we now have monthly chat meetings for RR teachers, 4th Monday
n2kids - Mel, that's great. Did you specify that you wanted the items for teachers?
Deb/WI - We have a really great sped teacher. She just moved back from New Orleans and the kids love her. She's made great progress with some of the kids.
Jukie - Yes, Mel....the free material request is great...shows you care, are concerned and know whats happening in the classroom
JRDinNJ - well i am going to keep plugging away and be upbeat
Kathleen - Principals, the nicest thing a principal ever did for me was to walk into my classroom, note a display, and run out to get his camera, take a picture of it :-) Made me feel very good!
MEL - N2 absolutely, I told them what I was doing and how many I needed. I explained in my letter that I wanted to pat the hard working teachers on the back. I found the less prominent business were more helpful. For example Gharadelli's chocolates sent something but Hershey's did not
JRDinNJ - I WILL NOT LET THEM BEAT ME!
Kathleen - JRD, go in and WOW them, ask zillions of (interested) questions, exuberate (is that a word, exuberate? :-)
n2kids - Mel, I'm thinking about doing the same thing with the thousands of credit card companies that I owe. Maybe if I tell them how much debt I'm in they will respond positively! LOL
Deb/WI - That's the way to go JRD. You'll eventually get a job. Don't get too discouraged! I know I was frustrated this last year but the coordinators job allows me to be a supervisor and gain valuable experience.
Kathleen - THAT"S RIGHT, JRD!
JRDinNJ - UR RIGHT!
n2kids - Yes Kathleen, that's a word.
MEL - JRD you will find something when you least expect it. As I told you before in my e-mail, I was truly going to quit and it happened. Sometimes relinquishment seems to turn the tide
Kathleen - thanks, n2, :-)
Jukie - Teachers are great self starters: but, recognition is soothing
Deb/WI - Kathleen I agree with that also. My principal has noticed little things I've gone out of my way to do and written me notes or surprised me with a little oddball gift. Nothing expensive maybe just a pin the said Children First, etc.
MEL - N2, would you please let me know if that works. My husband desperately needs a new car and we are house hunting too. :)
Kathleen - yes, jukie, just a little recognition, appreciation
JRDinNJ - I want to thak everyone for ur patience and advice it helped a great deal
¤êrã§êr¤ - woops...I'm a worker bee not administration...do I have to leave?
Jukie - KaThis is sad, but my principal is too busy to be with kids or notice whats happening
Kathleen - eraser, any input on how administrators can 'reward' or recognize teachers?
n2kids - Mel, I just bought a vehicle from Honda. I asked for an aquarium but it costs too much for them, however they donated $100.00 to the school just for the asking.
Doug/CA - I hope I won't be rude but I would like to ask a question that I have been thinking about for a while. I am not a total radical and opt for charter schools, but I am very interested in having teachers observe other teachers.
Jukie - When I ask my principal into my room he just stares at his watch
MEL - Wow, n2 maybe I need to branch out
¤êrã§êr¤ - my principal thanked me for the great job I did at open house..that was a great feeling...plus he stops in the art room to sse whats up....catches me being a good teacher
Deb/WI - Hey I've got a question for everyone! What would you do if a teacher went over your head to the superintendent over burned out ballast in the ceilings. I've gone through the channels as required and contacted the right people with work orders but had to wait until the networking was done. Superintendent called maintenance head who pulled the electrician off of the networking job just to do the lights. How would you guys handle this?
JRDinNJ - if anyone hears of positions or has aby advice please email me jrdintrnj@yahoo.com Thanks
MEL - Jukie, are you saying you specifically invite your principal in and he just looks at his watch. He has a problem
n2kids - Whatever company I order from, I always ask for something... ALWAYS. The worse thing that can happen is that they say no...Right?
Kathleen - eraser confirms that administrators need not purchase items for recog.
Jukie - Mel..invite him in to look at chilldrens work like wb page...and he says no time
Deb/WI - I like to see what the kids are dong and ask teachers if I an participate in many activities. I was helping teach kids how to do cats cradle the other day. Had a blast! Teacher said she was happy I dropped in to help.
¤êrã§êr¤ - Naw...no purchases needed...just that look of approval is okay by me
Kathleen - Doug, you find opposition to the concept of teachers observing each other?
n2kids - At our faculty meetings, the first thing we do is "Paws" for Praise. (We're the Tigers) Anyone wanting to thank someone else does so.
Doug/CA - Kathleen, absolutely not! Every other profession does so.
Jukie - principals need to spend time with kids and teachers not always at meetings
MEL - Another thing I do n2 has more to do with the kids but the teachers like it. I gave the teachers pads so they could give a page to a child who wanted to write me a letter and put it in a special mail box and ask for an appointment to read a book to me. The kids love it. i always call the parent afterward and brag about their child. It is great for PR if you keep your appointments. The principal has a little trouble keeping up with it.
Kathleen - MIdget, do you work in school administration?
¤êrã§êr¤ - <---is the art teacher in special education school
Deb/WI - I think the notes I receive mean just as much as a gift.
n2kids - That's a good idea Mel.
Kathleen - Doug, I meant, do you encounter oppostion to that concept?
¤êrã§êr¤ - Mel ...what a great idea
Kathleen - JRD, will you post on the Admins, chatboard to let us know how you make out????
Jukie - Mel, want a job at my school?
¤êrã§êr¤ - lol Jukie...i want dibs though
Deb/WI - I like that idea Mel. I've tried to be a secret reader for the kids but that's a neat idea.
MEL - Before I go Deb, what is a secret reader?
Kathleen - Please let me know if you all want monthly meetings??
n2kids - Monthly meetings are good Kathleen. I have class every other Wednesday. I didn't have class tonight.
MEL - Kathleen just about any day but Thursday or Friday. I would prefer an hour earlier but I am flexible
Kathleen - Wed doesn't work well for a couple of people who are not here, Monday??
n2kids - Monday is good.
Kathleen - Deb, anything that works :-) earlier isn't good for west coast
Deb/WI - Any day works for me Kathleen. I'm glad you put the alternate time zones on this message. That way I could remember to be here. LOL
Deb/WI - I'm pretty flexible though Kathleen. I'm one of the adhd :-) adults and only sleep 6 hrs a day or maybe it's all of the paperwork I have to do for Title I LOL
Kathleen - Deb, good I'll try Mondays..
Doug/CA - Kathleen, i would love to be able to go into a first grade class. Do some peer coaching and then have the same process done to me. Instead, we get an administrator who has less than 1 class of supervision and curriculum do this process.
Midget3220 - I love for teachers to come into my class and observe. I would hope that they would walk away with some new idea that would help revitalize their teaching.
Deb/WI - The students are told that someone special is bringing in their favorite story to read to the class. It could be me, the superintendent of schools, school board member, parent etc. The kids love it because we bring fun books to read.
Kathleen - Doug, you could still do the peer coaching, for your own prof. devel if not for your official eval.
Jukie - Well...I have an entire cadre of teachers ...4...at a time observe me every day for hours...every day is stressful
jo - have any of you concidered suggesting that the teachers videotape themselves and then review the tape by themselves or with a friends?
Doug/CA - Kathleen, yes I am joking. My point is that peer coaching is something found as cute rather than an option to be accountable.
Jukie - Jo...actually did that in college 28 years ago....equipment was huge then
Deb/WI - Do you do full inclusion Jukie or not.
Jukie - Full....
Kathleen - Doug, do it any way if it improves performance
Jukie - there are no resource rooms
Doug/CA - We have 8 RR teachers at our school. However, this is not true at the other nearby sites and I get frustrated.
Kathleen - Doug, come to our RR chats for sure!
jo - doug, does RR stand for Reading Recovery?
Deb/WI - That must be hard Jukie with no room of your own to escape to once in awhile. I know you've probably got an office (or cubby hole like I do :-)) but I don't know if our teachers would like full inclusion like that. They get mad over missed prep times and run and file grievances for stupid things also so I could imagine what would happen in this situation.
Doug/CA - jo- yes, sorry about that. Our profession is filled with lingo like that....
Deb/WI - We just had a teacher hired from Dallas that is showing the RR program. It's really something neat. She is going to train my America Reads students in strategies for RR.
Doug/CA - We have 8 teachers. Two on each track using a 4track year-round system.
Jukie - Administrators: Do you have guidlines for Halloween costumes?
Deb/WI - Yes Jukie. Nothing violent or racially discriminating.
Jukie - Do parents respect the guidlines?
Deb/WI - Yes. They are all for it and will even call to ask about certain costumes.
Jukie - That's great support!
Doug/CA - Deb-How large is your school?
Deb/WI - We have a wonderful group of parents at our school and a strong PTA group also. 250 students with 15 ESL students.
Kathleen - I'm here
Doug/CA - Deb-sounds like nice conditions
Kathleen - Monday, Nov. 2 same time, same place. Please invite colleagues in administration to come.
Deb/WI - Night Kathleen! Thanks for a great meeting.
Kathleen - Thank you all! great bunch!
