Kathleen - Teachers.Net is happy to have Mr. Ron Fink of Bad Wolf Press http://www.badwolfpress.com back with us tonight for an informal chat about dramatic presentations in the school. Ron is here as a host/participant as we investigate the benefits and challenges of helping students tap into their array of talents and interests through this different medium.
ron - Hi. As someone who writes plays for classroom use, I'm very curious about what grades you teach and what your experiences with plays has been.
maggie - hi ron, I teach grade seven in Ontario, tried a few plays with my group before but honestly, have not had much luck with them
mickie - Hello . First grade teacher here...I find the vocabulary is very difficult and not appropriate for my class.
Kathleen - Ron, I've taught 5 & 6 grades, did plays with that level. Most of my experience is at the early childhood primary level. Kids have done mostly mini-concerts, mini-plays for parents, very small scale.
Paulie - K -- every year we have to perform several and every year I love to do one for Grandparents
Kathleen - mickie, which vocab are you referring to?
Judy - Hi I teach in new jersey and have to do a play on Abraham Lincoln
mickie - Hi. Basic sight and phonetic vocabulary.
Judy - Any ideas?
ron - Wow. We've had very different experiences.
Judy - I teach grade 2
Kathleen - mickie, but in what context? Do you mean that the plays you've seen are in general too difficult? That is probably the case. I've noticed that too.
mickie - The clientele I teach is low socio-economically and many of whom are ESL
ron - Maggie, what went wrong? Did the kids not like the plays? Or did people get too nervous?
Kathleen - Ron, do you at Bad Wolf Press have a musical play about Honest Abe?
Paulie - I like to do short plays with minimal costuming or face puppets
mickie - Yes, generally speaking...There is no chance for the lowest child to be recognized
teach4fun - Ron, I have two 6th grade classes together , and I am planning to do a weekly drama class....any suggestions
ron - Bad Wolf does not have a Lincoln play. Sorry. I brought a bunch of catalogs to the computer and I'll check, but I don't remember any.
maggie - ron, with the age group I have it was a combination of being "too cool" to perform as well as too much fooling around by part of the group for my peace of mind
Kathleen - ron, your plays seem to require minimal costumes, and you provide alot of advice, pointers for producing them. Do you compose them with that in mind?
ron - Paulie, I like what you said about minimal costuming. My sense is that costumes scare teachers off more than anything. They're completely unimportant. Skip them.
Paulie - little kids in K like some kind of costuming tho. . .
Kathleen - ron, I see you will be at conferences in New York, California, Texas, Virginia and Indiana this school year
ron - Kathleen, of course we try to make our plays easy to produce. We think that we're writing plays for teachers who have never been in a play (and have never sung, either.)
Paulie - what conference in CA?
Kathleen - Does anyone agree that too much costuming is intimidating for students too? Especially the younger set? Too distracting, uncomfortable.
ron - Paulie, you're right. Many kids love costumes. The interesting thing is, when they put the costumes on, their voices tend to get much softer.
Paulie - and too time consuming kathleen. . .
Paulie - that is why I like minimal costuming but something to show they are playing a part. . .
Kathleen - Paulie, ron's schedule is posted on his site at http://www.badwolfpress.com/what's.htm
ron - I'll be at the California Reading Association in Long Beach next month, and several other reading conferences throughout the country. It's fun to talk to teachers everywhere and see what's working for them.
Paulie - thanks Kathleen
teach4fun - Ron, we're starting an activity period of music and drama once a week, a combined class, do you have any ideas on how to start?
ron - If you're working with middle school kids who've never performed, you have to break them into this slowly. One of the best ways is to perform for little kids. Kindergarten kids make for great audiences, and the performers usually don't act "too cool."
ron - I'm glad you're starting a weekly class. My first suggestion, not surprisingly, is to put on a little musical. That way you get the drama and the music.
teach4fun - good, Ron, would you use prepared scripts or have kids improvise from stories?
Paulie - good thinking!
maggie - thanks ron, have you any topics you can suggest that might work with such a group of reluctant actors?
Kathleen - Ron and everyone, what are the benefits of musicals for school productions? Are they worth the extra effort? Or is there really no extra effort involved?)
teach4fun - Thanks, Ron, Do you have a certain muical in mind?
ron - Improvising from stories is a lot of fun. You can have groups of about three kids together tell the story of, maybe Little Red Riding Hood. Don't have them rehearse; just do it in front of a group. They learn to listen very carefully to one another.
Paulie - takes lots of effort. . . and time but worth it
maggie - that might work ron, thanks for the tip
ron - If you were to do a musical...hmmm. What grade(s) did you say you're working with?
teach4fun - 6th grade, Ron
meeha/ece/tx - i think musicals are more fun for groups and can really showcase talent -- both at the individual and at the group level. people can choose their level of involvement.
ron - Okay, one possibility is "Theseus and the Minotaur." It's a musical based on the ancient Greek story. It's pretty funny, and I think your students will like the music.
teach4fun - Thanks, Ron, will check it out!
ron - One thing I like about musicals is they allow some kids to shine who normally don't do that well in school.
Kathleen - Ron, what grades are included in the "upper grade" designation for this group of plays you offer: Upper Grade Pack: 13 Colonies The Garden Show Tide Pool Condos Little Red Riding Hood Gold Dust or Bust The Emperor's New Clothes America's Tallest Tales Theseus and the Minotaur plus Bad Wolf Teaching Video
maggie - thanks ron, do you have any plays that might be appropriate for grade seven that are taken from Shakespeare?
meeha/ece/tx - wolftrap has some fun stories made into action type songs that would be great for an older grade to perform for a younger grade ...
ron - I know a 2nd grade teacher who does a couple of plays every year. And she always tries to feature her weaker students in the largest roles. She figures that her academic stars already get enough pats on the head. And the kids come through!
Kathleen - well, if you believe in Multiple Intelligence and Learning Styles, you have to offer musical/drama opportunities for those kids
ron - Meeha, I don't know about wolftrap. Do you have a webaddress or phone number?
Paulie - I think it would be neat to have a mixed grade perform together too like K and gr 5. . . what do you think?
Kathleen - ron, I like that technique, good for that teacher for allowing everyone an opportunity to shine!
meeha/ece/tx - how about the marionette scene from the sound of music? that could be a LOT of fun for older elem/middle school kids ... and could afford some good social studies opportunities, too!
meeha/ece/tx - the addy is: http://www.wolf-trap.org/
Kathleen - Bad Wolf offers: Primary Grade pack: Goldilocks and the Three Bears Anansi and the Moss-Covered Rock Coyote Steals the Summer Jack and the Beanstalk Quest for the Anicent Barometer (the weather show) Rumpus in the Rain Forest Aesop's Fables Deluxe (available 11/99) plus Earthworms on Parade Cassette
ron - Maggie, you asked about shakespeare. There are a few published versions of the more popular plays that shorten them and take out some of the harder language. My son was in a version of The Tempest last year (he was in 7th grade at the time.) Also, this spring, Bad Wolf is bringing out a musical version of Macbeth. It'll be pretty silly.
maggie - funny you shoulld say that ron, I have to teach The Tempest this year aspart of my curriculum, is the play available through your catalogue or did your son's group make up their own verson?
ron - Maggie, my son's class did not make up their own version. It was published, although I don't have the address right now. I'll try to get it for you.
meeha/ece/tx - Wolf Trap's Mission The mission of the Wolf Trap Foundation for the Performing
meeha/ece/tx - to provide enrichment, education and enjoyment to diverse audiences through presentation, production and creation of a broad spectrum of performing arts
silver - I don't have much experience with scripted plays in the classroom, unless you count drama class.
meeha/ece/tx - ... and so it goes. sinformation regarding wolftrap is available at their website ... i've seen some of their 'artists in residence' -- fabulous talents displayed! :-)
Marc CT - I teach a drama class, first year
ron - I think I found the name of the publisher of Shakespeare for kids. I believe it's Swan Books. Their phone number is 800 209 SWAN
Marc CT - I have had groups present skits based on themes in a play. ANy other interesting or dynamic performace based ideas?
ron - Marc CT, maybe it's time to actually put on a whole play.
Marc CT - I was going to do that as my exam/final assessment
ron - Marc, I'm glad you'll be doing a play. It gives the class a reason to exist. And the kids will love it.
Razz - But all I see is a big empty box on the screen with a tiny little one at the bottom and all the print is in the tiny one.......
meeha/ece/tx - my preschoolers just enjoy acting out simple songs and stories in our circle times. i still want to video some of those activities and have parents come sit with their kids to view the tape together some evening ... i really think that 'performing live' is quite stressful for little ones
ron - Some of you who work with younger kids, please experiment with theater. Remember, you don't have to actually perform for anyone. Your kids can just do the play for themselves. And if they're shy, that might be the first step they need to take.
Marc CT - I am teaching comedy for my Drama I and Tragedy for my Drama II. There are no texts, so I'm flying by the seat of my pants. Any suggestions? This is a mixed ability, mixed grade high school class with no prerequisites.
Paulie - That is why my K kids use stick masks for costumes behind it they aren't so shy
ron - Meeha, performing doesn't need to be stressful if it's kept low-key. You certainly don't wayt to start the little kids in front of a big audience, with costumes and everything. You'll be nervous and they'll pick up on it. I'd much rather see frequent, casual performance rather than the big specticals that we sometimes run across.
Marc CT - Masks! I like that idea
Kathleen - Paulie, sounds like an excellent technique for those shy little ones
judy - yes I must do a play on Abraham /Lincoln in february
Kathleen - Marc, creation of the masks would be a wonder art activity. can you coordinate with your art teachers?
ron - Marc, I think you've got to bite the bullet and have your comedy class put on a comedy. That's easy. It's more difficult to get beginners to do tragedy. Do you need sources of plays?
Kathleen - judy, what grade?
Kathleen - judy, also, what audience?
Marc CT - I'm sure I can. I have already talked to them about the color wheel and the emotions that they evoke
Paulie - GMTA
silver - Performing can be as simple as role-playing a town meeting in Social Studies class...
Marc CT - Yes, I do need some sources
judy - Kathleen you said something about Honerable ABe before, what was it?
silver - Plus it is a good nerve-breaker for later performances.
judy - Kathy I have Grade 2
ron - Masks are really cool. BUT! It's difficult for the audience to understand everything if we can't see the actor's faces. Sometimes it's cool to have them wear their masks as they come in, but then push them up on their head so we can see their eyes and lips.
judy - would be the rest of the school
Marc CT - I need sources more for tragedy than comedy. I have most of my comedy materails already
judy - audience is the rest of the school kathy
Paulie - Our masks are on a tongue depressor they hold up only when they speak
silver - Speaking of masks, I'm currently working with some high school and jr high students on a shadow dance....
Kathleen - judy, I referred to him as Honest Abe, a popular nickname. You could compose a little play based upon that characteristic of Abe Lincoln (honesty) have the kids help. Read some books to them about Abe first
ron - Marc, I don't have tragedy sources right at hand. I'll put them on the teacher chatboard tomorrow.
Kathleen - silver, tell us about shadow dance.
silver - It's easier to express yourself through movement if you are behind a sheet...
Paulie - I think if you read a short story on Abe you could even write your own play -- Abe as a boy . . .
silver - especially for this age group.
judy - good idea
Kathleen - Paulie, this shadow dance idea might be something good for ec kids!
ron - You might be able to divide the class into groups and have different groups write about different parts of Lincoln's life.
silver - We're putting a sheet up and a spot behind it...
Paulie - Kathleen, you and I are thinking along the same lines tonight . . . lol
ron - What's a shadow dance?
Kathleen - Instead of full face masks, maybe just the half masks on sticks (adapting Paulie's idea to a different level)?
Paulie - sounds interesting . . . the shadow play
silver - The students picked a song and are in the process of exploring appropriate movements to dance to it.
Kathleen - Shadow play good for groundhog day period
Marc CT - An interesting idea I came up with is having my students create a commercial for strange items. This will help them focus on persuasion.
Kathleen - (I don't mean the play has to be about groundhogs, though. Just that shadows fit the theme around that time of year)
Paulie - lol Kathleen. . .
ron - I once saw an Indonesion shadow puppet theater. Is this the sort of thing you're talking about?
meeha/ece/tx - or maybe paper 'aprons' with the faces of the characters ...
silver - That's a great improv game too, Marc
Kathleen - yes, that sounds like a good idea,post it here for transcript!:-)
silver - Students have to persuade another person holding a candy bar why he/she should give it to them.
Paulie - aprons????/explain please
ron - I like this creating a commercial idea.
Kathleen - Marc, that sounds like a motivating activity
silver - You're on the money, ron. The only difference is that these students are using their bodies.
Paulie - you mean bibs?
Marc CT - Take a look at my page for students: http://members.aol.com/behsteach/drama.html
ron - silver, with the shadow play, is there a narrator out front to tell the story?
Kathleen - bibs or aprons could replace masks over faces, put the face on the bib or apron! good ideas!
meeha/ece/tx - making 'bibs' or 'aprons' with the face (exaggerated, large) with the face of the character the child is portraying ... would keep the face visible to the audience ...
silver - Not in this case. We're just putting it to music, so it's more of a dance presentation than a play.
Paulie - we use the bibs for short productions in class impromptu
meeha/ece/tx - OR ... i've seen books acted out using poster board 'costumes' where the character is drawn with hand holes and a hole for the child's face ... the child's face becomes the character's face and hands hold the 'costume' up ...
ron - These suggestions for modified masks are all really good. Some kinds of plays work very well with masks. Plays that deal with animals, and myths, just feel right with masks. But these suggestions for allowing the student's eyes and mouth to be seen are very useful.
Marc CT - ok, I have a professional page with non-drama materials if you want it. Just email me.
Paulie - I have done the board costumes too
ron - But I don't want to get completely caught up with costumes and masks. There's a lot to be said for a kid just standing in front of people and telling a story, or singing.
Kathleen - To request a Bad Wolf Catalog just e-mail ron@badwolfpress.com and give your name and mailing address. Or phone with the same information. (toll-free: 1-888-827-8661)
Kathleen - ron, we should point out that your plays come with the music and directions for producing, right?
Paulie - but we call that our talent show when they perform like that Ron. . .
silver - Definitely, ron. We just did lip syncs as part of the drama club in my school.
Kathleen - silver, lip syncs to their own pre-recorded voices, or to professionally recorded audio?
ron - Yes, our plays are really easy to produce. They're all musicals, but they come with a recording that has all the songs performed, and then the same songs without vocals. So you don't need a musician and the kids can learn the songs from the recording. You don't need to "teach" the music. You just have to move your lips.
Razz - Ron, do you have anything special for 6th graders that deals with Thanksgiving?
Kathleen - It would be fun to put on an rather informal dramatization of a fairy tale or nursery rhyme with familiar songs incorporated.
Marc CT - No idea. I have only taught 10-12th grade
meeha/ece/tx - when i go to a play, the characters dress 'in part' and wear make-up, masks and extensive costuming can take away SO MUCH of the fun/joy of doing a play if the focus is just on the process of the play! i like simple!
judy - That is great ron; do you have anything on Abraham Lincoln
Kathleen - ron, any Thanksgiving ideas for Razz?
silver - They're professionally recorded, although it might be a cool idea to borrow a karaoke machine for a week and pre-record performances...
ron - Bad Wolf does have a Thanksgiving play. It's called "The Turkeys Go On Strike" and it will work nicely with 6th graders. It's pretty silly (national turmoil when the poultry refuse to participate in the holiday) but the historical beginnings of the holiday are in there too.
Marc CT - Any ideas for Columbus/Native American encounter?
Kathleen - Ron's url is easy to remember: badwolfpress.com
Razz - Sounds cute! About how long is it?
Marc CT - Note- I am trying to be PC
ron - Judy, I'm sorry. I don't have anything at all on Lincoln.
Paulie - How cute Ron! Wish I taught big kids now . . . lol
meeha/ece/tx - Kathleen ... the "Wee Sing Nursery Rhymes and Lullabies" has a natural set-up for that ... with Jack and Jill heading to Old King Cole's birthday party ... they meet all kinds of N.Rhyme characters enroute!
Kathleen - Marc, that would be an interesting scenerio for the students to describe. They could write it the way they imagine it after some research. (Nice work with the PC, Marc:-)
silver - Thanksgivig is not as huge as Halloween in Canada. (remembering that ours is in October)
ron - The Thanksgiving play is about 25 minutes long. If you check our site you can read the first several pages as well as listen to sample songs. www.badwolfpress.com
Razz - I most definitely will do that! Thanks. :}
Paulie - We downplay halloween at our school. . . parents' request
ron - The Columbus/Native American encounter. Hmm. I do know about a musical for middle school students on the subject. It's by a fellow named Rick Goldman. I'll go grab his address.
silver - Do you find that alot of schools try to downplay Halloween?
Razz - We also have to play down the Halloween celebrations at my school. Too many religions really object to it.
ron - "Columbus, Where are You?" is availble from Express Yourself Press, 11693 San Vicente Blvd, suite 102, LA, CA 90049 It's for grades 4-9. A very nice musical.
Kathleen - I love the Wee Sing videos, very worthwhile. Actually, they would be a good intro to producing a musical play.
ron - Halloween is tricky. It's difficult to present it in a positive way. I guess that's why we wrote about Thanksgiving instead.
meeha/ece/tx - I enjoy "Wee Sing" ... just wish they would produce CD's! The tapes are a problem for me!
ron - They don't have CDs? Even Bad Wolf has them, and we're a tiny company.
meeha/ece/tx - ron ... as of two months ago i couldn't locate cd's ... haven't looked since then!
Kathleen - ron, do you have anything in the works that we should watch for?
silver - I have a difficult time with ignoring the dark, mischievous side of our personalities.
ron - Maybe we can take a minute to talk about casting. I think it's a really good idea for every kid to learn every part in a play. I think teachers cast their plays way too early.
Paulie - Judy you were the only one I saw in here a minute ago. . .
silver - My opinion... just as long as they're confined to special occasions like Halloween.
Kathleen - ron, that's an interesting concept, seems difficult espceially for youngest kids
Paulie - Sounds like a good plan for older kids Ron. . .
Razz - ron, every child learns every part? I have a lot of problems wth some just learning ONE. How do you do it?
ron - Kathleen, no it's not difficult at all for younger kids. They memorize easily, especially if there's a lot of music involved. The only hard thing is when you finally do pick parts, you have to convince everyone to sing only when it's their turn.
meeha/ece/tx - i kind of like that idea ... but you must select the play carefully! many kids know all parts of the play anyhow ... with little ones, music, rhyme and rhythmic language are the keys!
Peggy - My principal has decided that children should portray their favorite character of the millenium for Halloween. My first graders don't have any idea about the millenium!
Paulie - I can understand that Ron. . . lol
Kathleen - ron, LOL! yes, I can picture that as a challenge, having them sing only when their turn :-)
ron - Razz, kids' brains are different than ours. They're so wired for language that they can easily learn everything. Esepcially in a musical they can easily learn every song. They'll do it without even trying.
silver - I have a group that has problems just READING their parts... long plays are not easy for LD kids.
Paulie - Well you have two months to help them find out Peggy
judy - There are real behavior problems where I work; how can play work?
meeha/ece/tx - Peggy -- have your kids come dressed as crayons or M&M's ... you can actually make the costumes at school!
silver - ron, what can you tell me about resources for shorter plays?
ron - A last tip: video tape a rehearsal, so the kids can see what they really look and sound like. They won't believe it when you tell them there's a problem, but when they see it themselves, they'll make the corrections.
Kathleen - Oh, Peggy, another case of someone not understanding little kids, eh? Let them name any hero even if from last month
Paulie - don't need a long play Silver
Kathleen - silver, but set to music would be the easiest way, even for children with learning problems
Razz - Hmmmm. Ron, has this been your experience with language-impaired kids, too?
meeha/ece/tx - silver ... go with music, rhythm ... your kids can learn songs or 'rap' style chanting if the material is intriguing to them!
Paulie - why not have them come as clocks different kinds thru the century posterboard over the shoulder would work
ron - Razz, language impaired kids often respond better to words connected to music rather than just words. But it differs with each kid, of course.
meeha/ece/tx - if your play just has a few parts, you could even have pairs, trios, or other small groups perform each part ...
Peggy - I'm sure their favorite character of the millenium, at least right now wil be Pikachu.
ron - silver, you asked about short plays. Please check our website, and if you don't see something that looks appropriste, email me and I'll try to help you find something from another publisher.
Razz - Thanks, Ron. It is most definitely worth a try.
ron - Thanks everyone. This has been interesting.
Kathleen - Peggy, Pikachu it will be! That's certainly the rage now.
meeha/ece/tx - thanks for the interesting chat! ron, thanks for your help.
Kathleen - Well, it's time to close. Thank you to Ron of Bad Wolf Press for being with us tonight!
Kathleen - Goodnight all, and thank for the terrific input!
ron - Goodnight all. I hope to hear from some of you.
