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Beth Bruno - The topic tonight is resume building for high school students and the pressure they're under to be smart and well-rounded.
Kathleen - Good evening, I thought a splash of color would be nice :-)
Tallytchr - Yes...there certainly is a lot of pressure...different from when I went thru school!
al-Ia - My son is beginning to feel that pressure
Beth Bruno - There was some heavy competition for class rank in our high school. The guidance counselors even got into it!
Beth Bruno - Al, what does your son say the pressure is from?
Tallytchr - My daughter has this urge to join everything because it will look good on her resume!!!!
al-Ia - We are a small school and it seems the same kids are in everything. Making it very difficult
Beth Bruno - Then after they join, they don't have time to do any of the work.
Tallytchr - What is really important for a resume...?
Beth Bruno - One student wrote to me that he was so busy all the time, he didn't have time for his friends. That's sad.
al-Ia - He does not talk much about it, but his peer group is handling it quite well. They are very diverse in interest and support each other. He is not in the "in" crowd. He plays tennis and is into music and drama
Kathleen - Not a way to build social and team work skills, eh?
Beth Bruno - My daughter's guidance counselor told her good grades weren't enough. She needed to show leadership.
al-Ia - beth, that leadership bug
Tallytchr - That's where the temptation to "be in everything" comes from
Beth Bruno - kids also need good teacher recommendations. What do you do if you're asked for a recommendation and it's not all praise?
al-Ia - I tell my son if some college passes him over because he is not the world's greatest leader, it will be their loss
Tallytchr - I'm hoping my daugher's crew experience will help her with the leadership thing
Beth Bruno - Crew certainly teaches teamwork. Also I think more and more colleges are developing crew teams.
Tallytchr - Would teachers give bad recommendations? I would think they would just decline to write one instead...
Jenn - I've never met a teacher who would give a bad recommendation.
Tallytchr - She is a Cox (the little skinny kid who gets to boss all the others around!)
al-Ia - What is crew expericnec
Beth Bruno - Is Cox short for Coxswain? Is that the one who sits in the back and sets the pace and rhythm?
Tallytchr - sorry...long skinny boat rowing!
Tallytchr - Yes...cox sets the pace
Tallytchr - that a student should apply for
al-Ia - Got it. Son on Pizza Hut Crew. Probably not quite the same thing? LOL
Tallytchr - Gee...my typing and computer skills are terrible tonight
Beth Bruno - How will your teenagers decide which colleges to apply to? Is there a strong guidance department at your high school?
Tallytchr - My daughter says no....the guidance counselors deal mostly with schedule changes.
al-Ia - I am disappointed in our guidance person i the hs.
Tallytchr - Daughter says...some teachers give advice...but mostly gets advice from parents and friends
al-Ia - I am so afraid that my son will come short of credits.. She is of little help
Jenn - Before I continue--I'm sixteen and a junior in Iowa. I was interested in what you had to say. Do you mind if I participate? Please feel free to say no.
Beth Bruno - Do they use the Internet to learn about some of the schools that interest them?
Beth Bruno - Hi Jenn,
Jenn - Or at least watch?
Kathleen - Jenn, please do participate!
Beth Bruno - Hi Jenn,Of course you can participate. I'm glad you're here!
al-Ia - Well, Jenn, my son is a jr, also
Tallytchr - Ok with me Jenn...my 16 year old is here beside me also!
Jenn - Thanks. :) I can always throw in the teenage opinion when necessary.
Beth Bruno - Jenn, tell us how the college search process is affecting you and your friends.
Tallytchr - My daughter has used the internet to check out a few schools...her favorite way to find information
Jenn - Well, I really haven't started yet. A moment ago you were speaking of the guidence dept. We have a very large dept. but also a very large school. I don't even know when to start looking.
al-Ia - I am doing the checking. Son has already made up his mind, but I would like him to check out more options
al-Ia - Jenn, now
Kathleen - Jenn, how often do you get to meet with your Guidance C'r?
Jenn - The guidence dept. really hasn't been much help to me at all. I'm friends with a lot of seniors and I've talked with some friends already at college. They've given me advice, etc. I've started looking at the things that get mailed to me but it's hard when I don't know what I want to do.
Beth Bruno - The junior year is a good for visiting a few schools you think have the programs you're looking for.
Jenn - We meet very rarely. There are 1800 in my school, and there used to be 2400. I probably talk to my councellor once a semester. Mostly about scheduling for the next semester.
Beth Bruno - It really helps to visit schools when classes are in session. Also to stay overnight and talk with students there.
Tallytchr - How many schools should a kid apply to? Is there an "average" number for good measure?
al-Ia - OUr school offers seniors the chance to take classes for college credit. I think that is a good deal. Right?
Beth Bruno - Yes, it can help to start college with some credits.
Beth Bruno - My son applied to 6 schools. My daughter applied to one for early decision and got in, so she didn't apply to anymore.
Beth Bruno - Most counselors seem to recommend a "safe" school, a "reach" (tough one to get into) and three or four in between.
Tallytchr - Beth...what internet sites are good for helping with college decisions?
Beth Bruno - Here's one I found a few months ago: http://www.101online.com/welcome.html
Tallytchr - Thanks...I added that to my favorite places!
Beth Bruno - Here's another site about building one's credentials for college: http://www.ets.org/spstud.html
Beth Bruno - What do you think about the statistics published recently that colleges have more girls than boys and the trend is growing?
Kathleen - Beth, does the level of expectations a college has for fat 'resumes' tell one something about the degree of (resonable/unreasonable) expectations it will have for the student when s/he reaches its campus?
Tallytchr - Beth...my daughter wants to know if going into a medical field requires any special applications?
Beth Bruno - What are the boys doing instead of going to college?
Tallytchr - I think our educational system turns off boys...all the rules and regulations and petty stuff
Beth Bruno - I don't think the fat resume has much to do with what's expected once admitted, but it seems to help gain admission.
e~ann - I think it may have something to do with the perks that are being offered by companies to computer oriented boys who have self taught skills and do not need to go any further with their education.
Tallytchr - Is it a "retro" reaction to the years (I went thru) where the only thing that counted was a high test score??
Beth Bruno - Tallytchr, I don't think special applications are required, but often preparation for a medical field involves some specific courses in the sciences while an undergraduate.
e~ann - Many teenage boys are building websites for people in high school already and have expertise that gets them into the job market with them beign able to call some of the shots.
Tallytchr - I think boys opt for military or trades...because they don't want to go further with the hassle of the education system
Snooky - Beth - is it better for a student to show well-roundedness or be heavy in one area - such as the arts
e~ann - I am from Connecticut and it bothers me how much emphasis is being put on the CAPT tests- it is the focus of everything in high schools here now.
Beth Bruno - That varies from school to school. In specialized arts programs - art and music - a portfolio or tape recording will be required.
Tallytchr - FCAT is the focus here in Florida...EVERYTHING is determined by how well individuals do...and schools are ranked by scores
Beth Bruno - I agree that the computer industry is attracting many young people - and offering fat salaries and training right out of high school.
e~ann - Students who do not test well are at a disadvantage. The days of students without strong test skills compensating with philosohical strenghts is no longer plausible.
Beth Bruno - Is the CAPT test yet another standardized test in addition to the CMT's?
e~ann - Beth, will the CAPT tests matter as much as the high schools are saying it will when college admissions time comes?
Beth Bruno - I know - the emphasis on testing is nuts! There's so much more to knowledge and learning than that!
e~ann - Yes, Beth . It has a heavy emphasis upon writing responses across the curriculum- even in Math.
Beth Bruno - I think the national tests matter more than the state ones.
Tallytchr - I'm afraid kids will be so turned off by testing by the time they reach college...they won't want to go...maybe that's why the boys are opting out
e~ann - How important is it for a student to chose a major in college when entering?
Beth Bruno - More and more students feel obligated to take night courses to improve their SAT scores. And those courses are expensive!
Beth Bruno - Students don't have to choose a major until their junior year of college.
Tallytchr - My daughter is using a computer program on the SAT to help her prepare...should she take a course also?
Jenn - I was under the impression if you waited too long to choose your major you would have to take a fifth year of college.
Beth Bruno - I think if your daughter has the motivation to take a course on her own, she'll do fine.
e~ann - Yes- parents are paying for tutors for the sat's and forcing kids to study for them. I just suggested to my daughter that she take them as a sophomore to give her a realization of what they involve, and then to try to improve upon the areas that threatened her in order to prepare for the jr and sr year psat and sat's.
Beth Bruno - Students often wind up taking a fifth year because they haven't been able to get all the courses they want or need. I don't think it's related to choosing a major, but that's sometimes part of it.
Beth Bruno - Three of my four children finished college in 4 years. The 4th one stayed 2 years for an associate's degree - then left.
Beth Bruno - Excellent advice, ann.
e~ann - From what I have heard, the fifth years often come as a result of colleges not offering the courses in time and /or shortage of faculty on campus for specialized courses.
Tallytchr - Our state universities have recently made a big push to get students to complete in 4 years
e~ann - Why would the state universities make that push?
Jenn - I've also heard it's because the universities require certain courses to graduate, then don't offer enough slots/classes for all the students to complete it.
Beth Bruno - Yes, Jenn, I've heard that, too.
Tallytchr - They say it costs more for students to hang around longer....takes more dorm space...more faculty
Beth Bruno - First semester of freshman year, my son's roommate signed up for 4 courses and was only admitted to one of them!
Beth Bruno - His father was outraged!
e~ann - When I went to college, I stood firm on taking a liberal arts program when the norm was to chose a BS and specialize. I never regretted educating myself rather than learning how to educate others. I do not know if that is a good philosophy to pass on to my child.
e~ann - Today the kids do not seem to have time to make up for wrong choices as we did.
Beth Bruno - It's certainly worth discussion. Some teens are quite certain about their goals - others are not.
Tallytchr - I wish distance learning would take on more acceptance...I think learning by internet would be great especially for graduate courses....for working people
Beth Bruno - What do you think about encouraging teens to take a year off between high school and college?
Jenn - You can learn so much from the Internet. I've been using it to do research for work and found all kinds of great information. That's also how I found out about this.
Tallytchr - And courses over the internet could eliminate some of those course shortages that seem such a problem
Kathleen - I think the year off is an excellent idea for many
e~ann - What is upsetting to many of us teachers is the way that the school systems are taking people in from the corporate world into an internship program to become teachers, while many of the sons and daughters who have finished college cannot get hired to teach with their teaching degrees. The school systems feel that the corporte people are more well rounded.
Beth Bruno - The Internet is an amazing and astonishing tool!!!!
Kathleen - That could be their year of community service, exploration
Tallytchr - I think that is a great idea...time to stretch and learn some real life before going on to college
e~ann - Beth- I took a year off between high school and college and it made me realize how much I needed that degree.
Jenn - I think it's a good idea but not effective for all. Especially if they use that time constructively.
Kathleen - May be the year could be structured, time spent observing business, industry, teaching, medicine, etc.\
Tallytchr - e-ann....the problem is that colleges of education are not turning out well rounded educators...all theory...no common sense
Beth Bruno - I didn't know corporate professionals could afford the cut in pay to teach - or am I making a false assumption?
e~ann - I looked around and saw people in their later years who had sat in a dead end position for a number of years and it scared me.
paula - As a student now I would love to take courses on the internet
Beth Bruno - Paula, are you in high school, college, or out of college?
Tallytchr - A lawyer in our town quit to become a high school teacher...big deal made in the newspaper...he lasted one year...
e~ann - Beth, many of them are saying that the hours and the summers off are compensation for that and the fear of downsizing is not a threat anymore- a tradeoff.
Beth Bruno - Yes, I think quality of life concerns could drive people out of high-stress, long work hours in corporations.
e~ann - The other factor is that many of them can also moonlight in their professions- teach at community colleges or consult. Have both worlds to some degree.
paula - College with 1 sem. to go then student teaching.
Tallytchr - Beth...do you see any trend toward using internet more at college level for upper level and advanced degrees?
Beth Bruno - Also, working in the schools seems to fit family life better.
Spedtchr - I am a sophomore special education teacher and am wanting to blow off some steam. Anyone want to listen???
Mr.C - I for one am looking to make the switch from the teaching profession into the corporate world... primarily due to financial considerations.
Beth Bruno - There are many skills one can acquire on the Internet. But much of learning involves human interaction - checking out one's assumptions.
e~ann - Beth- I have witnessed a few cases of mothers (teachers) writing their sons' college application letters for them and doing everything in the application process. in one case, the boy ended up dropping out.
Spedtchr - Mr.C, I am ready to leave teaching because of my daily frustrations!!
Tallytchr - True...but many courses are just lecture and test...those could easily be taken over internet
Beth Bruno - That goes against every college's honor system - big time! Most college applications require students to submit essays in their own handwriting and sign a pledge that the work is entirely their own.
Jenn - The learning style of the student would also help determine the effectiveness of the class.
e~ann - Beth- I taught gifted and talented for several years and it is my understanding that many colleges have disappointed those students with their classes.
Spedtchr - You know, we talk about college, but I have 10th graders that are no more ready for Kindergarten than they are college.
Beth Bruno - Spedtchr, next month I will be hosting a chat about "awful days with the lessons that flop. Watch the calendar for it and join us then!
Beth Bruno - That's why I think it's so important for high school students to visit college classes - not just take the tour.
e~ann - I talked to a college admissions person online once and he said that they look for lots of advanced placemetn and accerated courses. I am concerned for kids like my daughter who are high B to low A kids and might do better without the acclerated pressures. But they are urged to take those acclerated high school courses.
e~ann - If you are not in accelerated courses, many of the high school teachers treat you with less recognition.
Kathleen - e~ann, isn't it optional for them to take the accelerated courses in hs?
Beth Bruno - Are the accelerated courses at your school given weighted grades?
e~ann - Yes, it is, but if you are not in them, the class is geared toward the average student with less emphasis upon the college prep materials.
Jenn - Here we have almost full control over what courses we take. And many are offered at different levels.
Kathleen - I do understand the tug and pull these capable hs kids experience.
Jenn - And the AP courses are weighted.
e~ann - Yes, Beth, they are given weighed grades.
e~ann - If you are not in the accelerared classes, also, you have little opportunity to mingle with brighter kids. We have teams in grades 9 and 10 which tend to isolate the kids.
Beth Bruno - Wow, it's ten o'clock already! Thanks everyone, for chatting.Read my "schoolhouse views" column on Teachers.Net and send your comments to me, anytime!
Kathleen - Thank you Beth and participants, and those who read along from outside the room ;-)
Beth Bruno - So long everyone.
