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Beth Bruno - Tonight's topic is parent advocacy. Greetings all!
Beth Bruno - Do you have any problem parents you want to discuss?
Janny - Some of the most challenging parents have been those of gifted children.
Beth Bruno - How do you get parents to participate in your programs?
Beth Bruno - That's fascinating, Janny. What makes the parents of gifted students tough to deal with?
Mary K&1 - I found your articles quite interesting. I've been teaching a long time and it's usually the school staff that is begging the parents to help us get help for their children. We hardly ever have parents fighting us for help.
Janny - I get parents involved in many ways. One way is a program called "Around the World" where parents come into my class and showcase a different country each month.
Beth Bruno - Mary, do you think the parents are afraid to admit their child needs help?
Beth Bruno - Do your parents come from the countries they showcase?
Janny - The gifted parents are usually quite demanding early in the year about what programs we offer, etc.
Mary K&1 - Beth, sometimes, maybe. But most of the time I think they just don't know any better.
Janny - A lot do.
Beth Bruno - Do parents ask for suggestions about keeping kids reading or learning during the summer?
Janny - I send home a summer packet since I have the kids next year.
Beth Bruno - Janny, will you tell us more about the Around the World program you do with parents?
Janny - At Open House I have parents sign up for a month they can share about a country. I even take one.
Mary K&1 - This year was my first experience with parents who helped me get additional help for their child - hearing impaired - it was great to have a parent on the same side as myself. If parents demand something, it gets done - as a teacher, I can't get as much response from the administration.
SPED - hello beth. last week i was involved in a chat for new teachers. is there one scheduled for tonight?
Janny - Then, we get a date and the parents come in for about an hour to share about a country.
Beth Bruno - Do you have principals who make parents feel welcome and encourage them to participate in their kids' schooling in some way?
Janny - They have the freedom to share how they like; some bring photos, books, and stories. Many bring posters. They bring foods to sample. Some bring costumes and sometimes we even learn a dance!
charl - I like to make it a point to make phone calls and to send letters when students are doing well-not just when there is a problem
max - we had an extremely active PTA at my last school, at least 6 parents were there every day, all day, all year; they did aeverything AND went into the classrooms upon request to work with math, reading, compas directions, etc
Janny - wow max
Beth Bruno - I applaud the efforts you make to emphasize the positive. Parents appreciate hearing about all the things their children are doing right!
Mary K&1 - Beth, the Principals are great, it the higher ups who are the ones who have to ask the School Boards for anything additional - the Board Members are the ones who make it difficult to get the help that's needed for the children, and there are only a few parents who are able to stand up to the Board
Beth Bruno - Max, So the PTA coordiantes volunteer efforts from parents. That's great!
Beth Bruno - Mary, how do school board members get in the way? I'm surprised they get involved in day to day running of the schools.
max - yes, Beth, they recruit all the time!!! They really made a termendous difference in the work force at the school.
Mary K&1 - Our School Board has their hands in everything - everything that we do or want to do has to go through them. If it's going to cost money, then we really have to fight.
Beth Bruno - When the PTA coordinates volunteers who are available where needed, that's a great help to teachers, because they don't have to do the recruiting.
max - Everything done in our district has to follow the district (school board) guidelines, everything!!!
Beth Bruno - Do you ever have professional development meetings that focus on parent advocacy?
max - parents are a wonderful resource waiting to be appropriately tapped!
max - NEVER
Mary K&1 - Our Board requires that even volunteers go through the criminal screening done by the State, and last I knew it cost $35.00
Beth Bruno - Ouch, does the board or the school pick up the cost?
Mary K&1 - That's the problem, they won't pay, and it's not fair to ask the volunteers to pay, so there we are ...
max - our state department of education is funding groups that are setting up to do parent advocacy training
Beth Bruno - Have you ever had a bad experience with a parent volunteer?
max - parents can be a real problem if they do not knwo what is and is not allowed
Beth Bruno - Mary, that probably discourages volunteering - the costs, I mean.
Mary K&1 - Not that I know, we just have a Board that over steps their bounds and nobody has the nerve to fight them. They have fired administrators for trying to get things done
Mary K&1 - Of course it does
max - Mary , I wonder if perhaps one of the service clubs in the town would pick lup that costs???
Beth Bruno - It's really not a board's responsibility to run the schools.
Mary K&1 - max, maybe
max - The wives of the NASCAR drivers donated to build a handicapped play ground for a school I worked at
max - Beth, you are not in Florida, I can tell!!!!!!
Beth Bruno - Parent advocacy often involves special education students - when parents think they aren't getting the services they should.
Mary K&1 - Sometimes small town politics can be worse that the big cities
Beth Bruno - Is it in Florida where the boards micromanage?
max - Beth, I taught reg ed for 16 years, last 9 years I have taught sp ed
Mary K&1 - I'm in PA - rural
max - Mary isn't from FL and she has had that same experience; education is a giant political field in FL, statewide from post I keep up with
Beth Bruno - I've never worked in a school district where the board interfered with daily operations of the school.
Beth Bruno - Are special education students and regular education students in classes together in your schools?
max - schools in our state all belong to one big "umbrella" district; everyone answers to the next guy up the ladder, principal, area super, super and then Thursday nite board meetings
Mary K&1 - The Board won't hire enough staff to service the students as fully as they need. And If the parents aren't able to argue their case, not much gets done - the Board doesn't listen the teachers and Principals
Mary K&1 - Yes - all are included
max - a professor at a state university told me the services will only happen after a suit!!
Beth Bruno - u need involved parents in order to get the services you need for students?
Mary K&1 - Yes, Beth, but the parents don't have the nerve to fight the fight
max - Beth, depends on the severity; my students were not allowed to eat in the lunch room, we had to bring it back to our room, had to vacate play area if another class came out, students arrived after all the others were in their rooms and left 20 minuets before final bell
Beth Bruno - Boy, that sounds discouraging, Mary. Have any suggestions, Max?
Jules/GA - Hi, since I have 2 LD chidren, one out of school and one going into 8th grade, I thought I'd see what ya'll were talking about
Mary K&1 - Like I said, I had my first experience with a parent that did have the nerve just this year - it was great! But this parent also has a strong political place in the community
Beth Bruno - Have you been active in advocacy for your two children? Or didn't you have to be?
Jules/GA - I have found out that the noisy wheels makes thing happen
Jules/GA - I have had to really keep on top of things
Beth Bruno - I think it's true that parents have a lot more power than they realize.
kezz - ?I saw this question on one of the boards and it made me curious. Are all members of an IEP team equal?
Beth Bruno - As your children got older, Jules, did they take over being the noisy wheel for themselves?
max - unfortunately parents are not well informed
max - no, they are a member of a team that is to come to a team decision, parent part holds 50% of the "say"
Jules/GA - Our oldest daughter finished Hs 3 years ago, but didn't pass the writing test, she took it about 15 times and finially passed it this winter, I had to teach her the writing process
Beth Bruno - Some LD associations offer courses for parents in advocacy, so they can be more effective getting services for their children
kezz - I believe parents are becoming better informed .
Beth Bruno - Congratulations! I'll bet your daughter is relieved to have that test behind her!
Jules/GA - Beth, Rachael started coming to her IEP meeting in the 7th grade, she knew more about the regs than some of her teachers
max - Beth, Florida has some very active parent advocacy groups in certain parts of the state; they fight tooth and nail for anything they get--some get arrested by the schools!!!
Beth Bruno - I think IEP teams are meant to be relatively equal, but it's true that the parent is the most powerful person there.
Beth Bruno - Arrested for what? wow.
Jules/GA - Yes, but the state of Ga did her an injustice, but that is water over the dam, I will not let htat happen to Michael
kezz - I agreet hat parents have a 50% or more say, but are all members of the "districts" side equal?
Beth Bruno - I encourage parents and teachers to involve students in IEP meetings. Students need to learn about their rights, too.
max - Beth, the parent isn't the most powerful person there, the parent has 50% of the final decision making power, not 51%; Dr. Bateman (WRiting Better IEP's) did a conference for a parent group that I attended
Jules/GA - I know it is hard for some parents all the educational junk
Mary K&1 - kezz, I think that they are supposed to be, but it doesn't work that way, does it?
max - It is a full time job to advocate for a child!!
Jules/GA - In GA, all have a say so, teachers, parents, and Sp Ed. admins
Beth Bruno - Kezz, each IEP team has an administrator (or representative of administration), a special educator and a teacher - plus the parent. Each is an equal participant, but their actual influence varies widely from town to town.
Jules/GA - Max, you know, that is right, and working with an LD child at home is a full time job too
Beth Bruno - Max, I agree. But that 50% amounts to a lot, because if the parent won't sign, recommendations can only go forward if a mediation occurs
Jules/GA - Our youngest daughter is a good student, honor roll etc, and I didn't do all of the things I should have done with her this year, so much time was spent with her brother
Beth Bruno - or if there's an impartial hearing of some kind.
max - all have a say so, but IDEA is very specific about who has what power, if consenses isn't reached, either someone has to back down or take it to due process (mediation is preferred) and child's current IEP freezes at that moment
Jules/GA - In Ga if a parent doesn't agree with placement, it won't happen in most cases
Beth Bruno - Max, that's what I meant about the power of a parent's refusal. It's important for the IEP to remain constructive and not adversarial.
Jules/GA - Our admin. doesn't fight parents to much even the child might need it
max - same here Jules, then the school just "maintains" the students--if parent is pushing for additonal required services, then things happen
Beth Bruno - That's true in CT, too. Every effort is made to work toward a support program that the parent will support.
max - absolutely Beth, and parents need to be sure they can live with an IEP before it is signed--but very , very few parents understand the process
Jules/GA - Yes, in Michael's IEP meeting this year, Mike and I reminded them( th smiddle school) that Michael was to have access to a comppputer at school when needed
Jules/GA - This year, he brought home work that could have been done at school if he had a computer
Jules/GA - They are to get some of his books on tape, and that was not done
Beth Bruno - As a school psychologist, I make sure parents know about their rights. I want them to know how to work within the system to get the services their children need.
max - ah, Jules, now you will enter into another step of planning
Jules/GA - In fact, until we moved here, I dont' think any students had books on tape
kezz - As a regular classroom teacher, I feel as though I carry no weight in meetings. Just the principal or sp. ed. administrator does. The parents ' (child) opinion is generally dealt with very well if the parent is aggressive. But if I'm sticking up for a child's right to have something where nonaggressive parents, the admin. usually does not value my opinion that much.
Beth Bruno - It really frosts me when specific services are written into an IEP and those service specifications are ignored!
max - Beth, I teach SED, very severe--my students did not get counseling, never saw the school psychologists other than for initial placement, and on and on and on; our school psychologists are very thinly spread--they do placement testing mainly and come to the placement (or change of placement ) meetings only
Jules/GA - I agree, Beth, it is our job as teachers, to let parents know what is needed for their children, and yes, services must be provided
Beth Bruno - I've seen that happen too, Kezz - that a teacher's input isn't valued as much as it should be.
Beth Bruno - Yet, in the school setting, teachers know the students better than anyone else!
kezz - So that's why I'm curious about a teacher's being equal on the school's 50% of the team.
max - you can loose your job as a teacher if you advocate for the student
Jules/GA - I feel that even I'm a teacher some things haven't been done right, what about the poor parents have no clue what's going on
Beth Bruno - Max, how can a teacher lose their job for that?
kezz - Max, Beth, others, so how far should a teacher go?
Jules/GA - I feel that I was passed over for a position that I wanted because of all the "problems" with our daughter
max - it has happened!!!!
Beth Bruno - I don't think teachers can demand services, but why not bring up what they think would help?
kezz - Jule, I am sorry about that.
Jules/GA - 'm just thankful that Rachael was hard headed enought to keep taking the writing test
max - kezz, if you want to stay at your school, you follow your administrator's lead; the best you can do is get the parents to become involved with a good advocacy group--and hope you administration doesn't find out you told them about the advocacy route
Beth Bruno - The purpose of the IEP is to get all the information and recommendations out in the open for everyone to consider.
max - good for her, Jules, she shoud be very proud
Jules/GA - Yes, max, she is
Beth Bruno - I hope you don't think I'm being naive. I realize that we have to be smart and handle situations based on what we know about the people in the room.
kezz - max, of course, I know you are right.
Jayne - I participated in a program called America Reads and I had a student who was in third grade but at a second grade level. I spoke to the the LD teacher and found out that the student was getting the help he needed but he wasn't improving anywhere. The next thing for this boy was to put him in a small classroom where he could recieve almost one on one help. Come to find out the mother didn't not want him to be placed in this type of setting? does anyone have any suggestions as to what else we can do to help this student.
max - IEP development has a long way to travel here
Jules/GA - Beth, I think that if all work together then good things can happen for students
Jules/GA - But all must be on the same page
Beth Bruno - Jayne, was the mother open to remedial reading help or open to getting tutorial help for her child in reading?
max - Beth, from county to county procedures differ greatly in FL, but the bottom line is the IEP's are a joke, they are not programs for the kids--very generic, can interpert whatever; what is clear is the number of minutes of speech, OT , PT ,etc. and transportataion, minutes in regular class
Mary K&1 - It's a shame, but often the IEP is written according the the services that are available. For example - I can have a severely language and speech disabled child who needs services at least 3 times a week - every day would be best, but the speech and language teacher is only in the building 1 and a half days per week. So the most the child can get is 2 half hour sessions per week. The Board refused to hire more teachers
max - that is diffucult Jayne
Jayne - This student has been recieving help from several people and the mother has been told about his needs and she still seems to forget about his needs
Beth Bruno - I know what you mean. There are compromises made all the time and that often means that needed services are watered down.
max - we have the same thing Mary
Beth Bruno - Special education services have been on the firing line lately, because they're getting so expensive.
Jules/GA - It seems that each year I get most of the LD students in 3rd grade, I guess, I do know about it, and I try to help the parents understand what is going on
max - Jayne, I can do this because I have very few students, but I also did it for the 6 at-risk I had a few years ago in a regular second grade---I do home visits and work very closely with my parents
Mary K&1 - If the Resource Teachers are maxed out, we aren't allowed to refer any more students for testing, even parents are put off
Beth Bruno - Also parents of students in regular ed are complaing that districts are spending too much money on too few children.
max - lots of money being spent on levels higher than the classroom , Beth
Beth Bruno - Max, I didn't know there were teachers doing home visits anymore.
Jayne - I never met this mother but from what I know she doesn't have much involvement with her child's education. she wasn't open to reading help afterschool
Jules/GA - Thank goodness, we can still refer students, and this year they had to pull a EBD teacher from the middle school to handle our EBD students
max - true with us also Mary, but if a praent requests testing of the child IN WRITING it has to be done in a reasonable time, if parent doesn't agree with the testing, they can have independent testing
Beth Bruno - Your visits must mean a great deal to the parents.
max - I teach a very special population Beth, tomorrow I am going to visit one from last year in a residential setting, as part of his treatment plan
Beth Bruno - I want to emphasize what Max just said about encouraging parents to put their requests in writing.
Jules/GA - Maz, you are special
max - the school started me on the home visits Beth, six years ago, now I just can't see working with the students without the family involvement
Beth Bruno - Once a principal or other school professional receives such a request in writing, it's a legal document (in a way) and will rarely if ever be ignored.
Jayne - I tutored this student in school during the day. It was a struggle because he didn't want to be there. I would like to go back in the fall but I will be student teaching. I found out today though that he will be working with a reading specialist. I'm not sure if it's just for testing.
Jules/GA - The school, I teach in is small and I know all of the parents and see them often outside of school, but I'm in a rural area
max - and somewhere in my learning I remember it is part of the school's responsibility to "teach the parent" (if you have SED kids)
kezz - Do you ever feel parents make unrealistic demands and how do you handle this without injuring your relationship to them?
Beth Bruno - Kezz, if you can select a portion of the demand that is realistic and help make it happen, the parent will appreciate it.
Beth Bruno - I want to thank everyone for coming to chat tonight.
Beth Bruno - Good night all. Come again!
