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Lish - so what does everyone know about Kid Writing?
ajsgrammy - Hi! This is my 1st year doing KW in grade 1. So I am still learning
Fay - We do Write From the Beginning, I teacher Kindergarten. Our goal is to get the child to be able to have a setting and characters which match their writing. Writing is strings of letters at the beginning. The ultimate goal is for the children to start using sound spelling and environmental print.
ajsgrammy - We do KW every morning. Most of the time I have no help. Makes conferencing a challenge
kings - I do KW in first grade
Tallytchr - Could you please tell me what KW is??
kings - hardest thing for me is getting the kids to write without asking me how to spell every word
ajsgrammy - Trying to get them to add more details. make stories more interesting.
Fay - KW sounds just like Write From the Beginning
kings - KW is letting the kids write and then conferencing with them and writing the "adult" writing for them
ajsgrammy - kids don't ask me for spelling. Will ask each other, use word wall and their dictionaries.
Tallytchr - So it's more of a kindergarten thing? we use power writing and Six traits in second grade
ajsgrammy - I have some children who have made wonderful progress and them others who find it very laborious
ajsgrammy - oops! sorry meant "then others"
sah - I agree...some are SO excited and to others...it's such a chore.
Fay - I tell my children to try spelling the words by listening for the letter sounds, a word wall with sight words comes when they start trying
ajsgrammy - Right! and it's those who find it hard that I am having the most difficulty with. Trying to get them past the "I like the dog." kind of sentence.
sah - tallytchr...I don't think it's just a kinder thing...it shows children how their writing compares to adult writing...mini lessons fit the children's needs.
Fay - sah- I agree
Hat - how many children does everyone conference with? I conf. with only 4-5 per day
kings - I conference with all of mine
Hat - kings-I mean how many every day?
Fay - I conference with all my children 2 to 3 times a week
Tallytchr - In my state..florida...second graders have to so what's called "writes upon request:"...they have to write an essay ...no help...scored on a rubric...score goes on the report card!
sah - I have children who aren't even to the "I like stage." Magic lines are great for getting over the "I'm stuck" syndrome, but they become a crutch for those who don't have the confidence to try.
ajsgrammy - I conference with about 12 per day. If I have a volunteer, then we see everybody. I've blocked out about 45 minutes for KW>
kings - I have a word wall, dictionaries, and tell them to look around the room for words, but they still want me to spell words for them and add them to their word books
Hat - Fay-do you have day? I am finding trouble finding enough time to do more than 1x a week per child
kings - 18
kings - I don't do it everyday, but MOST
Fay - I have some days where I just let them write whatever they want. This helps build self-confidence and self-reliance. No teacher help.
KinderCop - Hi, I'm the moderator of a KidWriting group
kings - The kids really like wearing the "crowns" and helping each other with words
ajsgrammy - SAH- I agree. I have found that some are using the magic lines because they really don't want to be bothered putting down the sounds. Had to tell them at least the beginning and ending sound. We are first graders, after all.
Hat - sah-what I have been doing is letting my students do their kidwriting and then before I do my adult writing I sound the words out and they write the sounds they hear. this helps the ones who aren't hearing the sounds
Tallytchr - Is Kidwriting...a program..a book...what are the crowns for??
kings - I agree ajsgrammy
sah - Right now, I find it difficult to get to kid writing everyday. I know it's a matter of priorities, but I have so many at-risk kiddos that KW isn't holding their attention. I find it almost easier to do it in small groups...like centers or rotations or something. Anyone else feeling this way?
KinderCop - I don't let my K's write without a grown up
kings - crowns like.... king of ING, wiz of IS, star of ARE, fuzz of WAS
ajsgrammy - Tally-kidwriting is a book
KinderCop - Tallytchr, Kidwriting is a program
kings - the kids know to look at that person with the crown to spell that word
Fay - Hat - Kidwriting is the same concept as Write from the Beginning - Kindergarten . We do have two writing assessments per year. County Mandated.
sah - I encourage them to stretch out the sounds, but there are those who either doubt themselves or just aren't ready for this. Sometimes I work one-on-one with a child like that to really hear the sounds, and other times, I just say "Write what you hear."
kings - we also have... ch, sh, th on crowns because more kids wanted a chance to wear one
kings - they think they are their "writing" hats. LOL
Hat - Fay-we have mandatory assessment too. We have four (one per quarter)
KinderCop - Question for all: do you model the drawing part first, lots of times?
sah - We have three mandated writing assessments per yr.....November, January, and May.
kings - I did in the beginning kindercop
kings - now they know.... the hardest part is getting them to try to write more
ajsgrammy - When I introed. KW, I did the drawing first. I have them draw first also, then after a period of time I tell them everyone must be writing.
KinderCop - kings, I think it is important to keep doing the modeling
kings - many kids seem to just write, I like.....
Fay - I don't because the children get dependent. I let them do lots of kid writing before I start modeling.
kings - kinder, you may be right.
sah - Yes, model, model, model! I think aloud and really emphasize getting an idea in my head and putting all the details in my picture. I believe it provides good clues for those who tend to forget what they're doing quickly.
kings - I might try to model more so that they increase their writing
ajsgrammy - kings- I know what you mean. I need to push these few over that hump in the road.
KinderCop - Fay, when you model, do you draw and then let the k's tell you what to write for the KidWriting part?
kings - So much to do and not enough time anymore
Hat - yes, kings!
kings - I try to tell them.... OH.. you could write that during kid writing
KinderCop - I, also, believe the modeling is writing for and writing with - you know, like 4 blocks
sah - KinderCop...that's what I do...have the kids tell me what to write for my modeling. Then, when we conclude the KW time, I show them the adult writing. I don't want them to take my idea as theirs.
kings - like when they insist on telling a story in the middle of a lesson and then I try to remind them during writing time
Lish - writing with is more interactive isn't it?
Fay - Seventy-eight percent of my class are English As a Second Language students. I have found that if I model lots then they will not try to write independently because they think writing has to be like the teachers.
kings - fay.... that is a good point
KinderCop - QUESTION: I still am having my K's only write one sentence per day. I try to make it a quality sentence, since there is an adult helping sound out
kings - I have a child who repeated this year and since we didn't do kid writing last year, he started the whole, "How do you spell>>>>>" idea
Lish - Fay I think many younger children feel that way!
sah - Fay, try the lesson where you show them that scribbling, magic lines, random letters, sounding out, etc is okay as long as it's their best KW!
ajsgrammy - Sometimes when I model, (you have reminded me I don't do enough of it) I have the children share my pen. They really enjoy that
kings - I have some of the students share what they wrote also
KinderCop - Lish, part of modeling is the kidwriting part, where they tell me what to write and I write EXACTLY what they say (right or wrong)
Lish - sharing the pen is interactive more than modeling isn't it?
trieshard - I dictate sentences during word work time to kind of force them to have to sound words out...I can stretch words out whole class that way. After that, we put the words on the board so they can see how they did. I tell them to at least get beginning and ending sounds down...it is a start.
kings - If someone does something "great" we stop KW for a minute and I share that persons Immediately
sah - Kindercop...I take what the children say. The more independence I can promote, the more time will be opened up for mini lessons on promoting quality sentence structure and expanded ideas later.
ajsgrammy - Kings-- good idea! That way that student gets some instant recognition for a job well done!
Fay - The lesson where I show them how to scribble inhibits writing for the ones who can do more. I model this for the less experienced writers. Then the ones who can sound out start scribbling.
kings - I seem to find it hard to fit the mini lessons in by the time I conference with the children
kings - thanks ajs
KinderCop - sah, I guess I take what they say, like "me and mom" but I try to help direct them to more than just "I like...."
kings - it has really helped my "lower" students
kings - One day I even stopped everyone because a student wrote about a different subject than he had written about for the last 3 weeks
sah - Kindercop...also depends on the student. You know who you can challenge more and who is doing their top notch work just because you're the teacher. For some, "I like..." is awesome!
Lish - so how do you start to use Kid Writing?
kings - Do you all give the students a topic or let them choose their own?
kings - good point sah
ajsgrammy - They choose their own.
Fay - I give my students the opportunity to share there writing with the entire class. They really enjoy getting thumbs ups.
KinderCop - I have always let my K's use their own ideas - I have not given one idea
sah - Let them choose their own topic...in my opinion, it's more meaningful to them.
kings - you should start by purchasing the book lish
kings - It is really a great resource
Lish - and then what?
kings - I let them choose too.
Fay - I do a mix of letting them choose and giving a topic
kings - then.... show them how to "think" of a topic
kings - explain how we all need to think, and make a plan of what we want to write about
sah - I second that...get the book if you don't have it. It really helps to see how kids benefit from KW rather than regular "old" journals.
ajsgrammy - I agree. We have not done this much writing before.
trieshard - I almost always let them have free choice, but I also give them 2 other ideas.
kings - then show them how to draw a picture about what they are going to write about
KinderCop - Can I put in a plug - Lish and all - go to groups.yahoo and then join KidWritingK. It's a group all for Kid Writing. I'm the moderator but the authors also put input and others give ideas!!!!
trieshard - Do any of you have them tell you your idea before they leave the rug...and those who don't have an idea, you can ask some questions etc to get them going?
kings - finally show them how to write a sentence to go with their picture
kings - have them help you sound out the words
Fay - I give prompts because our assessment is a county wide prompt. They have to get use to listening also.
ajsgrammy - lish- you probably can implement the strategies just by reading the book. If you get to go to a KW workshop it is money well spent
sah - I emphasize the thinking part and call the picture part..."a picture plan." None of my children start writing until they assure me they have a solid plan in their head.
trieshard - Do any of you do a word web for an idea, e.g. cats and then have them write from it?
kings - write down exactly how they say to spell the words, then go back and show them the correct way to spell the words and emphasize how well they did on certain words
KinderCop - ajsgrammy - do you know when and/or where KW workshops are?
Fay - I do.
Lish - I'm in Canada and have never seen a workshop offered or heard much about Kid Writing.
Fay - Since I'm Kindergarten my word web also has pictures.
ajsgrammy - Kinder --No I don't. Isabel was in RI this past August. I learned about her workshop through my school.
kings - In the beginning I had my kids use a "magic" line if they had no idea how to spell a word.
kings - I don't have any kids who use it now, they can at least get one or two letters for each word
KinderCop - kings - I still use "magic" lines for words that the K's don't hear a sound
sah - I don't use word webs. I pretty much do it as Kindercop just described. My kiddos don't have to tell their idea...just assure me that they have one. They're honest about it, and if a kiddo gets stuck, we brainstorm until he/she has found something they want to write about.
Lish - so at the beginning you might have lots of "magic lines???"
kings - I think it is really hard for my "speech and language" kids
kings - I like the idea of magic lines
KinderCop - Lish, some kids have 100's of magic lines and some don't want to have any
kings - some of the other first grade teachers have said some of their kids still use them a lot thought
ajsgrammy - Right, Lish. Magic lines take the place of sounds/words. The idea is not to have the child struggling to put down letters they don't know.
kings - oops though
kings - yes lish
sah - Even if a kiddo doesn't hear any of the correct sounds in a word, I praise them for knowing that words are made of letters and that they're practicing their writing!
Fay - kings- I understand, this is also true for English As a Second Language children. They do not understand the language.
kings - but lish, it is really cool to see them actually know that their are...4 words in a sentence or whatever
Fay - Always, praise them for their efforts.
trieshard - Do you ever have them circle words to let you (and themknow they know they tried to spell the word but think it isn't right...and that they want you to write the correct spelling above it?
KinderCop - Does everyone use markers? I do, so the kids don't erase, they "X" out, and keep going - like big kids are supposed to when doing rough drafts
ajsgrammy - King, Absolutely! I make a big deal out of the child who almost has the adult writing without using too many magic lines.
kings - I have heard it is a good idea to use markers, but I don't
Tallytchr - bye!
ajsgrammy - They only use markers for their drawings.
sah - I have the kiddos use pencils. I really don't have kids that want to erase. Some try to add letters, but I emphasize that their KW is just how it's supposed to be 'cause they're just learning.
kings - AND.... If they put a capital letter AND a period ......
Hallelujah
KinderCop - sah - that's why I use the markers
ajsgrammy - AMEN!!!!!
Fay - What ideas does anyone have for putting space between words besides using a spacer.
sah - Maybe I'll have to try the markers. I have some kids that would spend a great deal of time doodling this way, but I'll chance it. Anyone try ink pens?
kings - spaghetti and meatballs
kings - fay.. the kids think it is cool and they can really relate to that
sah - Kings...that's what I was going to suggest. Talk about spaghetti spaces between letters and meatball spaces between words.
ajsgrammy - This year I've used Isabel's suggestion of "Meatball spaces." last year I made each child a Mr. Spaceman out of tongue depressors. I think I had better spacing with the depressors.
kings - take in real spaghetti and use a pom pom for the meatballs
Fay - kings -thanks for the idea
kings - man... I can't spell tonight
kings - must be the topic LOL
KinderCop - ajsgrammy - I sorta agree with you about spaces. I've never had to talk about spaces between letters before, just between words
ajsgrammy - That's Ok. we know what you mean.
kings - my kids do well with finger spaces too
trieshard - Write someone's sentence on sentence strips and cut them apart. Have students stand up each holding a word. Talk about how each word is separate like the students are separate.
Fay - trieshard - that sounds like an idea they can relate to
kings - cool idea trie
ajsgrammy - Gotta go. nice Chatting with you all. Good Luck! happy thanksgiving!!!
sah - I also will read a sentence really fast as if I'm smooshing all the words together...let's kids hear that it's hard to read if everything is scrunched up.
trieshard - Thanks Kings
sah - Then, I emphasize spacing things apart. They like knowing that adults do that.
trieshard - Have them count words in a sentence you write....if you write it all together without spaces, they might tell you they can't count it...then write it WITH the spaces and see how they do? They will probably get better each time you do it.
kings - I make mistakes when writing things on the board and show the kids that it is OK to make a mistake too
KinderCop - How long has everyone been using KW?
kings - some kids are such perfectionists that they only write a little
kings - this is my first year kinder
Lish - never
kings - I like it, but it does take a lot of time
KinderCop - This is my first year, too.
kings - how about you?
kings - oh
sah - This is my first year doing KW. Used components of it before, but haven't we all?
kings - how many words do you add to your word wall each day/week
KinderCop - I am REALLY excited, and am seeing great gains (this is my 11th yr. in K)
trieshard - I do 5 a week.
kings - how do you decide which words to add trie?
KinderCop - My K's are all day, alternate day, so I'm only adding one word a week. Popcorn words
kings - what are popcorn words?
KinderCop - tries, 5 a week??
sah - I add words when I feel the children are ready. I need to keep challenging the higher kiddos without loosing the lower ones. Sometimes that means several words one week, and only one the next.
trieshard - We snap, clap, jump, or whatever every day m-th and print them 2 times...then on Friday we do a little test and a dictated sentence using as many words as possible. I try to put question marks in also.
KinderCop - Popcorn words are sight words that keep "popping" out at you. It's on the wall, but not word wall, only names and colors are on the word wall
trieshard - I use the suggested ones in our basal because they see them every day that week.
sah - Popcorn words are a snappy name for words that keep "popping up." Sight words, basically.
kings - oh.... thanks kinder
kings - I do our sight words
Lish - words that really can't be sounded out
kings - from the dolch list that they are responsible for reading at the end of first grade
Lish - my word wall is much like kinder
KinderCop - boy, tries, my basal only has 3 or 4 per theme (New Houghton Mifflin)
kings - I also add words that I see everyone looking for everyday
sah - well, I also use words like "we" and "me"...these can be sounded out, but they seem to be everywhere in early literacy, so they "keep popping up" all over the place...hence the term.
kings - like.... today, tomorrow, yesterday, cousin, etc.
trieshard - Ours has 4 and 6 spelling word. I take the 4 sight words and one of the spelling pattern word and do word families On The Back during the week.
kings - I also have a rhyming words wall.
Lish - in kindergarten they should be "known" words for the kids in reading
KinderCop - kings, true about words kids want to write, like the word "to" is not introduced for a LONG time, but it's already on the popcorn wall cuz everyone wants it
kings - we have word family words on it and if we learn a new one, we add it to it
KinderCop - I have a separate "wall page" for each family - like a big hat for -at (they are Carson Dellosa )
kings - well... gotta go.... thanks for the ideas!
Lish - word families can be made on separate charts e.g. cat chart for the -at family
kings - have a safe and Happy Thanksgiving
trieshard - Our basal (McGraw Hill) introduces some pretty hard words early, like could.
Lish - tries what grade do you teach?
sah - KinderCop, is that Carson Dellosa product a bulletin board type set one can purchase?
KinderCop - Sometimes, I think we are pushing too much, like trying to do building blocks with K's, when the authors admit it's not appropriate for K's
trieshard - 1st grade...but I think our children are lower, overall, than some areas...at least when I see what the basal wants them to do
sah - kindercop, you mean 4 blocks with k?
KinderCop - Sah, yes, it a bulletin board type set and the pictures are BIG and wonderful. They give the lower kids an idea about what the main word is and then they can make the rhymes.
Lish - building blocks is intended for K
trieshard - KinderCop, what is the name of the book?
sah - Kindercop, thanks...I'll have to check the CD set out!
KinderCop - Sah, yes, but K's are NOT supposed to do Four blocks, they are supposed to do building blocks which are VERY different
Lish - right on!
sah - yeah...just checking. I think kindercop originally wrote building blocks was not appropriate for K although meant 4 blocks..
KinderCop - OOPS, I did mean don't do 4B, do building blocks
trieshard - Carson Delosa does lots of books, and they are eye-catching...but what is the name of the book you use, KinderCop?
Lish - I've gotta get going....bye!
KinderCop - trieshard, I have lots of CD books - all the building block ones, but were you asking about the rhyme family stuff?
trieshard - Yes
KinderCop - It's a big bulletin board set, has 20 or more pictures that make rhyme families like
trieshard - Oh - ok...thanks.
KinderCop - pig for -ig, ball for -all, hat for -at
trieshard - I will take a look...I make lost so stuff, but sometimes it is just nice to have it done for you!!!!!
KinderCop - this is a good one, very usable and I didn't even have to make it - you know the feeling
sah - thanks for the chat. I'm going to get scooting. One more day of class tomorrow. Thanks for the company and ideas.
trieshard - oops lost so is really lots of....
KinderCop - bye
KinderCop - well, trieshard how's it going for you
KinderCop - bye for tonight
trieshard - I am bogged down with the basal and stopped writing workshop for a while to fit the grammar together with writing that we HAVE to do. e.g. writing sentences with nouns we are working on or coming up with sentences and focusing on the noun..
trieshard - Sunny, what do you teach?
KinderCop - Boy, I can't believe you have to do certain nouns - what series?
trieshard - Do you get support in your grade level, or do you feel you are out there all alone?
trieshard - McGraw Hill...we have to teach nouns and verbs...but there are some great books to use. The Wind Blew by Pat Hutchins is a great one.
KinderCop - trieshard, I am out here all alone, I'm in a small k-12 (400 kids) building and I'm the only K teacher
KinderCop - I teach nouns and verbs, but I don't have certain ones the k's are supposed to know
trieshard - Do you belong to a listserv so you get support there? It sounds like you are doing a great job...good books like KW really help.
KinderCop - yes, Kinderkorner and my own - KidWritingK on groups.yahoo
trieshard - We use nouns and verbs that are in their sentences in their stories.
trieshard - I am a 1st grade teacher, but I will check it out. Do you have a book out?
KinderCop - and then you take their nouns and verbs and make them their words for spelling and such?
KinderCop - No, I don't have a book, but I was so excited about KW that I emailed the authors and asked their permission to start a group to talk about using the program
trieshard - No they give us the www and the spelling...and then they use them in stories...some of the stories are so fabricated...but some aren't so bad. The take home books in their workbooks are horrible...we don't even use them.
trieshard - Bust we do use the theme to develop a word bank or word webs that the children can use for writing stories.
KinderCop - well, it's bed time in Michigan - 10 is sorta late these days
KinderCop - talk to you later, have a nice Thanksgiving!
trieshard - My husband just went up...nice chatting with you.
trieshard - Happy Thanksgiving, as well!
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