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Kathleen - Hi Emmy, are you here to discuss running records?
chelle - Kathleen-- I haven't used running records yet, but I am interested in starting them when I get back. Any advice?
Mary/PA - I do running records every day (rr) that the short way to say it - two lower case r's
chelle - Mary--I'm new to running records. Any advice for getting started?
Kathleen - When is a child ready to have a running record administered?
Kathleen - okay, we'll agree to use rr to mean running records throughout this chat.
Kathleen - How much are rr used in kindergarten?
chelle - Mary--do you do rr's on every child every day?
Mary/PA - As soon as he/she can read a bit - very early
Kathleen - Mary, is a rr done using a book or are illustrations not allowed?
Mary/PA - chelle, In the PM of every day, I teach Reading Recovery, I give a rr to each of my RR kids
Mary/PA - I only do rr wtht my kinderkids a few times a year - to show progress
Kathleen - Mary is every child admiinistered a rr every day??
chelle - Kathleen--Unless I'm mistaken, there is a way to note that the child is getting help from illustrations on a rr
Mary/PA - In Reading Recovery, yes, but not in the regular class room - in the reg. classroom I'd do one a month or every 6 weeks
chelle - Kathleen--are you planning on starting rr's or just curious about them?
Emmy - We do running records regularly, but we are not RR teachers.
Kathleen - chelle, I think I'll be doing some this year. You?
chelle - I hope to do some before the end of the year. I'm just not sure how to start.
Mary/PA - If I had a child in the regular classroom who was not making the kind of progress that I would like to see, I would give him a rr more frequently in an attempt to determine what is holding him back
chelle - Mary--Are the rr's part of your assessment or just part of documentation of progress?
Emmy - http://www.pburg.k12.nj.us/GuidedReading/page2.htm This site is something that I've used.
Emmy - I'm sorry, that site tells you how to administer a rr.
Kathleen - Thanks, Emmy, that will enhance the transcript
Mary/PA - chelle, I'm just getting caught up here, my two nephews were here and I was trying to talk to them and the screen too, I'm not very good at that - just ask your questions again, I know I've missed lots
Emmy - Our first grade teachers choose to give rr at specificed times (at least 1x a grading period) and they give the same one. We are a large school & it helps the second grade teachers.
chelle - I was just wondering if you use rr's as assessments or just as documentation of progress.
Mary/PA - Pictures are a very important part of early reading. The child can glean meaning from them - the children should be encouraged to look at the picture to get an idea of what the words may be saying
chelle - Emmy--what's your advice on getting started?
Nancy - In Michigan running records are now part of our assessment program.
Kathleen - so a rr is not concerned only with decoding words?
Emmy - Well, we had some false starts, but finally we were trained to do the rr in the same manner.... I made a chart for each teacher that showed the markings used.
Nancy - I think the Marie Clay book on running records is very helpful
Mary/PA - The real power of the rr is in the analysis - from it instruction can be planned
Kathleen - decoding words in context I should have said
chelle - Nancy--what's the name?
Nancy - I also have a cd and workbook to help teachers practice
Mary/PA - Many people now are using them just for assessment
Emmy - I write a weekly reading newsletter and I do little "motivational" articles. This week there is an article on actually using the rr to make changes in what we are teaching.
Kathleen - Nancy, is the Marie Clay book a good one for those who have no clue about how to begin a rr?
chelle - Nancy--then rr's are a part of your quarterly grade?
Nancy - Running Records
Mary/PA - They are also good for that, but they are much more than just an assessment tool
Kathleen - Nancy, please tell us about the cd and workbook, title, where you got them
Nancy - I don't use them as a grade
Emmy - Mary, that is where our teachers were weak...they were not analyzing what the rr meant.
Mary/PA - The analysis of the rr will show which of the three cues the child is using
Mary/PA - also if he is checking one cue against another
Kathleen - And the 3 cues are: ---?
chelle - So, how do you use the rr to adjust your teaching strategy?
Nancy - I do have the cd at home. Hurrah
Mary/PA - and what he does when he notices that he has misread something
Mary/PA - It give a picture of how the child is processing
Emmy - One thing we did, was to get a child in and a group of teachers all took a rr on what the child read. We then compared them. It is hard for some people to hear the mistakes.
Nancy - It is from e-literacy 1-517-672-4253
Nancy - The website is http://www.eliteracyonline.com/ but the last time I checked it was still under construction, that's why I posted the phone number
Mary/PA - The 3 cues - Meaning, Structure, and Visual
Nancy - It is important not to forget the comprehension part of rr
Mary/PA - Meaning can be story meaning, or something found in a picture
chelle - I would imagine simultaneous rr's on a child would be very enlightening
Emmy - We don't use the checkmark method that Marie Clay uses. We have a copy of what the children are reading and we mark on that copy.
Mary/PA - Structure is the language...syntax - can we say it that way?
Mary/PA - Visual is the sound symbol associations used or neglected
chelle - To what grade level would you recommend using rr's?
Nancy - If you have a copy of the print, it takes away from the doing it anywhere anytime possibility though
k - Sometimes it is helpful to record the child on a small tape recorder... in case you miss something.
Emmy - Well, chelle, it actually was very frustrating for some teachers to mark. That's why we don't use the checkmarks. They couldn't make head nor tails of what they were doing.,
Nancy - I like that you can do a running record with a pencil and a matchbook cover
chelle - What do you do instead, Emmy?
Kathleen - k, that sounds like an excellent idea for any beginner, tape record the child
k - Bottom line is to find a method that you are comfortable with...
Mary/PA - chelle, the rr can be done with any reader at any age
Kathleen - I thought you needed a duplicate copy of the text being read, for marking up
Mary/PA - It's a bit like the miscue analysis that you may be familiar with
Emmy - chelle we make marks on a copy. It is used in our school for an informal assessment & the teachers use the same selection.
Nancy - I find with my more advanced readers, I just note the errors rather than tick marks
Nancy - Does anyone here use the DRA?
Emmy - Nancy, I work with fragile third graders and that is what I do. It is like making notes.
Mary/PA - No need to have a duplicate copy of the child's text, that's just more work for yourself... to get them prepared
chelle - I guess I don't because I don't even know what it is
murphy - We use the DRA
Kathleen - Is DRA the older form of assessment similar to the rr?
Emmy - I keep a sheet with boxes for each child's name and make notes in it with the date.
k - Explain the DRA...
Emmy - We don't use the DRA.
Nancy - Developmental Reading Assessment
Nancy - It is published by Celebration Press
murphy - There are leveled books and you do a rr and ask comprehension questions
k - It is similar to the emergent literacy survey?
Mary/PA - DRA has a part that is like a rr, but it has other items as well
Emmy - Here's another site http://www.us.edu/newreading/runrec.htm
Kathleen - I used to do reading assessments, but that was many years ago.
k - What is the site?
Kathleen - Emmy, keep those helpful links coming! : o)
Nancy - Great Website!
chelle - Emmy--Thanks for the links!!
Kathleen - I don't know enough to ask any more questions :-/
Nancy - Kathleen, what grade do you teach?
Kathleen - I teach kindergarten, one half day session
Mary/PA - Here's a tutorial that I put togther - it's in pdf - http://connwww.iu5.org/cvelem/RR/running_record_tutorial.pdf
Nancy - Do you have readers?
Kathleen - Thanks, Mary!
chelle - Nice chatting with you. I'm looking forward to using rr's in my room
Emmy - Mary, I glanced at that and it looks super.
Kathleen - Well, I always have difficulty with the term "reader" in kindergarten. I have a student who reads, others who see themselves as readers with Keep books we've rad together and they can recite
Emmy - Are you the person who wrote some questions they ask themselves when doing RR, Mary?
Mary/PA - No, that wan't me.
Mary/PA - The RR teachers in our district have been teaching the First and Second grade teachers how to do rr's - that;s why I put together that tutorial.
Nancy - Kathleen, I don't know where you live, but one place I learned a lot about running records was at a summer institute called Literacy Learning in the Classroom
doodleday - I have never done a running record. Could anyone give me advice on where to begin? Any current literature?
Kathleen - Nancy, I'm in New England. I'll be getting help from my administrator
Nancy - They are put on at various sites around the country by Richard C. Owen publishers - http://www.rcowen.com/
Mary/PA - Kathleen, you can do a rr with those students - you will notice things that you may not have noticed before about that each child is and is not doing
doodleday - Thanks! When would you start doing a running record?
Nancy - a good video too is from Rigby..called Oral Reading Records by Leonna Trail
Kate - I am in the process of learning to do running records. I need to know what to do with them when I get them finished.
Kathleen - Nancy, would you see if the e-literacy site you mentioned e-literacy.com? When I went there it didn't look relevent to literacy
Kathleen - Oh, a video would be especially helpful to beginners
Mary/PA - Running Records for Classroom Teachers -Marie Clay - http://www.heinemann.com/code/template.ghc?direct=search_titles&dw=view&book_id=1794
Kathleen - http://www.rigby.com/
Kathleen - How do you select the text to be used for the rr?
Mary/PA - I do rr's in kindergarten, is that what you mean by start, doodleday?
Mary/PA - I pick one that has features that I think the child would be familiar with and of interest to him
doodleday - yes! Do you use leveled books or a specific passage from a running record inventory?
Kathleen - How familiar can the child be with the actual text, or should we select text they've never seen before?
Nancy - I use the DRA or leveled books
Emmy - kathleen, you can do both.
Mary/PA - In Kindergarten and beginning first grade, I use whole texts as they are short at these levels. As the texts get longer, I just do the first 100 words
Mary/PA - or something close the the first 100, stopping at a point that is a good place to stop and then tell the child the rest of the story
Mary/PA - It's always important to bring the story to a conclusion, focusing on the meaning of the story
Kathleen - Do you do anything to introduce the text, or just put it in front of the child and have him/her read it, saying, just do your best?
doodleday - How long does this usually take and how often do you do it?
Mary/PA - If you want to know how much the child is retaining from a previous lesson, you would give a rr on the text that he studied yesterday, if you want to know how a child approaches a totally new and unseen text you would pick one he has not seen before
Mary/PA - a typical rr will take about 5 mins
Mary/PA - maybe as much as 10, but that's rare
Mary/PA - Kathleen, yes, always encourage the child to look through the book and talk about what he thinks the story is about - be sure that he notices pictures that may have names that are new to him, so that you can tell him what that thing/item/concept is
Mary/PA - All good readers look through a book before they start to read it - even adults, right?
Kathleen - right
Mary/PA - You should encourage the child to make predictions about the story, he then can discuss how right or wrong his predictions were after he reads the book
Kathleen - There must be a universal marking system for rr?
Kathleen - an official rr form?
Kathleen - an official rr reporting system and form is what I meant
Nancy - I've seen different forms..Our state has one
Mary/PA - You can make your own easy enough, but if you want to see what we use for RR, you can look here - http://connwww.iu5.org/cvelem/RR/rr_form.pdf
Kathleen - I'm going to schedule another chat about rr for next Wed. Jan. 3 at 9pmE. This one was a last minute thing based upon the amount of rr discussion in the 4-Blocks mailring
Kathleen - (If any one reading this does not yet belong to a mailring, please sign up at http://teachers.net/mailrings --there is a group for every grade level, many topics.
Kathleen - Thanks, to all, and good night.
