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Locolouie in NY - One of the problems with discipline is that it is useless unless you have support from the administration. Kids today have no respect for authority- something they acquired from their parents and the media, and laugh at teachers who choose a profession that pays them poorly and offers no respect
Marv - Hi, folks, I'm on board for your questions
Locolouie in NY - At what age is personal responsibility acceptable as a form of discipline
Marv - Re: ad back-up. When you refer a student to the office, you are saying, I can't handle the problem. You take over.
Marv - Ad backup means not sending the student back to the classroom the same hour he is sent out.
Locolouie in NY - When you refer a student to the office the principal thinks you're a wimp and your evaluations suffer
Locolouie in NY - personally - i only want students who want to be there- let the rest of them stand in the street and get hit by a bus
Locolouie in NY - I'm tired of drugged out, adhd, special needs, mother theresa necessary brats who cannot function unless i turn into a gameboy
Marv - Because the next chat room would be on December 25 and my travel plans for Europe in February, and to Missouri in March, my schedule has become too cumbersome. I need to give something up to regain balance in my life. Therefore, this will be the last chatroom in which I will participate. Sorry, but I have not discovered a good way to lengthen my days.
Barb/2/NE - Hi! Just wanted to listen in, I've heard some good things about your ideas.
Marv - Regarding age for becoming responsible: It starts in infancy.
Locolouie in NY - Sorry Marv hope you can regain what you lost
macnutte - I have not been here before so I am watching for a minute but am glad I don't feel like Locolouie!
Locolouie in NY - What are school's to do in this day and age of information- when students want to vegg out
Marv - To offset my leaving the chatroom at the end of this session, I am offering a special discount on my book. You can visit it at www.DisciplineWithoutStress.com.
Barb/2/NE - Thanks, Marv!
Locolouie in NY - How long were you a classroom teacher Marv?
Marv - If you are interested in the 15% discount (and I will pay for shipping and handling), call Peggy at toll-free 800.606.6105. Let her know that you found out about the discount on the teachers chat room.
Carol/pre K/WI - Marv I hope you regain yourself and your book has enlightened my teaching I'm really teaching now
Angela - I'm sorry, but I know very little about you Marv & your book. I really need some help though!
Marv - Length in the classroom: About 15 years, elementary, middle, and high school. I developed the Raise Responsibility System after returning to the classroom after 24 years in counseling and administration as an elementary school principal, middle school and high school principal.
Carol/pre K/WI - And for responsibility I have three four and fives taking responsibility for their participation in our classroom
Fudge - hi, i also wanted to listen in for awhile
Marv - Here are my keys: 1. Always be positive 2. Always offer choices 3. Prompt students to reflect. 4. Reflect upon the hierarchy of social development: A-anarchy, B-bothering (both unacceptable) C-Cooperation (external motivation) D- democracy (internal motivation).
Locolouie in NY - how would you go about getting a faculty to buy into this theory of yours
Marv - When a student acts on level A or B, prompt reflection by having the student identify the inappropriate level.
Locolouie in NY - suppose the student-and I don't mean to be rude or out of line- states to you " F you I ain't doing St"
Angela - Stupid question, but when you say offer choices...can you give an example. Thanks!
Carol/pre K/WI - Marv, I have been implementing your principles since Sept when I first seen this live chat and the more I use them the more success I'm seeing
Locolouie in NY - Don't you agree that the principal must set the tone of discipline in the school.
Carol/pre K/WI - Locolouie what grade do you teach
Marv - If disruptions continue, elicit the consequence. When a student acknowledges an inappropriate level of behavior and the owns the consequence, you have made significant headway into his behavior being changed because you have incorporated the essential two characteristics for changing behavior: recognition that a change is necessary and ownership in the procedure so it won't occur again.
macnutte - I do, but you must set the tone in your own room, too.
Locolouie in NY - Carol 9-12th graders
Locolouie in NY - I have some gangbangers who would show you what ownership really means
macnutte - I have taught for 34 years...all middle school plus about 6 years of high school.
Angela - I'm doing a long term sub in a very rough 3rd grade classroom. There was no behavior management plan in place. So, any suggestions would be great!
Locolouie in NY - I taught middle school for 14 years before going to HS
Locolouie in NY - MY students respected me only after they found out I was once a cop
Fudge - Marv, do you believe in time-outs? I deal with pre-schoolers...
Marv - Regarding cussing the teacher out: Unacceptable. I would whisper in the student's ear: "Don't worry about what is going to happen. We'll take care of it after class." But it depends on the situation, also. I may just say to the student that you have lost the privilege of staying in my classroom and then have him to the office. The first instance would be a youngster.
Carol/pre K/WI - Fudge After beginning these principles I have reduced timeout to almost zero
macnutte - Angela, I read something in e-mail from teachers.net today that i thought was very good. In fact, I printed it out for a new teacher to read. She is having discipline problems.
Marv - The second would be to a middle or high school student.
Fudge - In terms of discipline, i think consistence is very important
Locolouie in NY - Angela - classroom cleanup and no recess
Fudge - really carol? what exactly did you do in your classroom and with the kids?
Locolouie in NY - Thanks for the advice Dr. Marv - will have to read your book to see if you can walk the walk
Angela - Locolouie, recess is the one punishment that kinda works. Except one day I said put your name on the board and the boy BURST out w/ S***! I should have written him up according to another teacher.
Marv - THE BEST WAY TO FIND OUT ABOUT MY PROACTIVE (Steven Covey), NONCOERCIVE (William Glasser), and empowering and collaborative (W. Edwards Deming) APPROACH IS TO VISIT MY WEBSITE: www.MarvinMarshall.com.
Marv - Putting a student's name on a board is one of the worst strategies teachers use. You have shared what happened when you did it.
Fudge - thanks for posting your webpage!
Carol/pre K/WI - Fudge first I had the children help come up with our rules and had them tell me what they meant and what they would look like them I took picture of all the kids doing them
Angela - I make the kids take ownership..they put their initials on the board & if they earn their recess time back by following the rules then they eraser their name. I've also been doing Good Work tickets...shh but sometime I rig the drawing (in favor of the well behaved kids).
Barb/2/NE - Carol, how much background information did you need before implementing this plan? Did you buy the book?
Locolouie in NY - Angela good luck with the kids- without a strong principal setting the tone for the school- any THEORY is useless
Angela - Thanks Locolouie! In the 2 1/2 weeks, I 've been there NO administration has "popped in".
Carol/pre K/WI - and then I join the Sept Chat and changed my rules to responsibilities and made posted the picture and their words on a poster and posted it in the classroom
Marv - Using the Raise Responsibility System does not require a strong principal. If the system were to be implemented school wide, the administrative support is essential.
Carol/pre K/WI - Barb, after the Sept chat I checked out Marv's book from the library and read chapter 3 and started implementing
Angela - Carol, do YOU think this system would work if someone wanted to start using mid to end of year?
Barb/2/NE - Carol, your public library had this book?
Barb/2/NE - Marv, are you familiar with the "Teaching with Love and Logic" System?
Carol/pre K/WI - yes, if you believe that the meaning of discipline is real to teach and not provide punishment
Marv - The program can be implemented any time. Just tell the students--after you read about the program--that one reason why you are a teacher is that you like to learn and that you have recently learned something new and believe they will enjoy it, too.
Carol/pre K/WI - Barb, I was actually was at a college library
Carol/pre K/WI - the book is actually one that I want to add to resource collection
Barb/2/NE - Carol, good idea, I'll see if one of the 2 Universities in town have it!
Carol/pre K/WI - Fudge, after I had the responsibility post I refer to it every time an issue comes By saying We are responsible for .... safety or being nice or listening and go from there.
Carol/pre K/WI - I often feel like a broken record
Barb/2/NE - So, Carol, just a little change in your vocabulary with using the words, "responsibility" helped?
Marv - Love and logic is a wonderful program--especially the strategy of showing empathy and then asking, "What are you going to do about it?" I prefer to phrase the question as follows: "What would an extraordinary person do?" or if using my program, " What would a person on level D do?" Here is the problem with Love and Logic: the teacher's implementation may not be logical. "You've disrupted my class. You're consequence is to stand outside in the rain." (This was a real incident.)
Carol/pre K/WI - it has been a big change in vocab and it also helps shifts ones attitude towards discipline
Sara - Marv, where can I get your book?
Barb/2/NE - Marv, I see. Would you say that a teacher becomes MORE calm when using this system?
Fudge - well, I'm a pre-school teacher, I'm not sure my students would understand the word responsible
Carol/pre K/WI - Barb, I have
Barb/2/NE - Carol, that's great!
Darcy/PK - I teach PK too, Fudge and they understand good choices and bad choices. If you make bad (poor) choices then you are responsible for the logical consequences.
Carol/pre K/WI - I really know the system is working because I had one of my children tell me today We are responsible for listening when I start talking to staff member while this child was talking to me
Sara - the more I think about discipline the more I realized that it is how I present myself each day that is what sets the tone of my room Marv, am I on the right wave length?
Marv - The strategy can be used with pre-school youngsters--and it is. The quickest and least expensive way is to call Peggy toll-free (next Monday) at 800.606.6105 and mention to her the 15 per cent discount I offered on this chat room. And remind her that Dr. Marshall will pay for shipping and handling. You can read about the book at www.DisciplineWithoutStress.com.
Marv - As the title of the book indicates, yes it will reduce your stress and have you become more calm. In my case, I truly regained the joy of classroom teaching because when I started to promote responsibility--rather than teach toward obedience--youngsters became more responsible as a natural by-product.
Marv - Sara--absolutely. Relationships are the key. I just sent my January gazette to teachers.net. The article is about this very point.
Carol/pre K/WI - I would suggest signing up for Marv
Carol/pre K/WI - newsletter they are really helpful
Barb/2/NE - I just signed up for that!
Marv - Carol, I assume you meant signing up for my monthly free e-zine Promoting Responsibility--which can be done at my website: www.MarvinMarshall.com
Carol/pre K/WI - yes, that'
Carol/pre K/WI - 's right my computer is being weird
Carol/pre K/WI - Marv, my most difficult portion of implementing the principles is the use with a special needs 3 year old
Carol/pre K/WI - He just doesn't seem to be catching onto the concepts
Marv - Carol, that is a real challenge. Keep asking the question: "Is that right or wrong." Don't get tired of asking it. The youngster will finally catch on. You may have to look right in her eyes the first few times, but just keep on asking--rather than telling.
Sara - Thanks I will order the book. But since your here let me ask you another thing. There are so many demands on teachers. I devote hours beyond the regular school day. I am burned out.
Marv - Regarding catching on to the concepts: Just use 2: right and wrong. Then have him give examples of each.
Barb/2/NE - Marv, my 7th grade son wants to know, "How can I get my teacher to follow this system?" My son is really tired of the chaos and noise in his classroom.
Marv - Remember the strategy is to elicit from him rather than your imposing.
Carol/pre K/WI - Persistence is the key then. What keeps me going is hearing the rest of the group use the same terms when dealing with conflicts with peers
Marv - Barb, this may sound strange, put purchase the book as a Christmas present for your son. He will really enjoy the first three chapters. Then have him share it with his principal. You will be amazed how effective this will be.
Carol/pre K/WI - Marv that's part of the challenge he has a significant language delay
Barb/2/NE - OH my gosh, Marv! My son is shaking his head and laughing!
Barb/2/NE - ***Thinking I may have to do this!***
Marv - Folks, it's that time. I enjoyed the chat these past months. I will you all the best and happy holidays--and a most joyous and influential of all professions..
Barb/2/NE - Thanks Marv~
Barb/2/NE - Happy Thanksgiving everybody!
Carol/pre K/WI - thanks for sharing our expertise
Marv - I meant "wish" you. Adios!
Carol/pre K/WI - happy thanksgiving everyone
Gazette Articles by Dr. Marshall:
- Ronald Reagan and the Art of Influence (June 2009)
- Discipline Is a Liberating Word (May 2009)
- Eliciting vs. Punishments (Apr. 2009)
- Habit vs. Awareness for the 3 Practices and for the Hierarchy of Social Development (Mar. 2009)
- How to Be Consistent (Feb. 2009)
- Teaching is an Art, Not a Science (Jan. 2009)
- Tapping Into Internal Motivation (Dec. 2008)
- People Do Better When They Feel Good (Nov. 2008)
- The Brain and Sleep (Oct. 2008)
- Using a Butterfly Analogy to Explain the Hierarchy of Social Development (Sept. 2008)
- 5 Classroom Tips (Aug. 2008)
- Discipline Without Stress, Inc. (July 2008)
- Visualization (June 2008)
- Promoting Responsibility - Or How Not To (May 2008)
- Immaculate Perception (April 2008)
- A System Is Superior To Talent (Mar. 2008)
- To promote responsibility, Elicit Rather Than Impose (Feb. 2008)
- Understanding Boys (Jan. 2008)
- Descartes' Error: I think; therefore, I am (July 2003)
- Metacognition -- Thinking about Thinking Is Essential for Learning (June 2003)
- Listening Lessons -- How to Help Kids Learn and Comprehend (May 2003)
- Approaches of Outstanding Teachers (Apr 2003)
- Using a Discipline Approach to Promote Learning (Mar 2003)
- Curriculum, Instruction, Classroom Management, and Discipline (Feb 2003)
- Learning and Relationships, The two are inseparable (Jan 2003)
- Accountability in Schools (Dec 2002)
- Suggestions For Motivation (Nov 2002)
- Given Names - When NOT to Use Them and when TO Use Them (Oct 2002)
- The Power Of Hierarchies (Sept 2002)
- Use the Language You Want Learned (Aug 2002)
- Observations From Last Year (July 2002)
- How The Horse Whisperer Trains a Wild Mustang in 30 Minutes (June 2002)
- Using Breath Management for Better Listening and Voice Preservation (May 2002)
- Reducing Stress By Promoting Responsibility--Rather than by Attempting to Manipulate Behavior (Apr 2002)
- Rules Vs. Expectations (Mar 2002)
- How to Achieve 100 Per Cent Student Participation (Feb 2002)
- Positivity, Choice, and Reflection Exercise for Students (Jan 2002)
- Learning Climate (Dec 2001)
- Reflection and Self-Evaluation (pt 3) (Nov 2001)
- Reflection and Self-Evaluation (pt 2) (Sep 2001)
- Reflection and Self-Evaluation (pt 1) (May 2001)
- The Empowerment Of Choice (pt 2) (Apr 2001)
- The Empowerment Of Choice (pt 1) (Mar 2001)
- Power Of Positivity (pt 2) (Feb 2001)
- Power Of Positivity (Jan 2001)
- Home Assignments (Dec 2000)
- Collaboration is the Key (Nov 2000)
- Classroom Meetings (Aug 2000)
