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Kathleen - Any one with information or questions to post on the topic of Praxis II is encouraged to log on.
Kathleen - This meeting was scheduled as the result of a request for help.
Kathleen - Hi cbar, are you here to chat about Praxis?
cbar - I was more hoping to be a wall flower for a couple of minutes
Kathleen - cbar, me too. Christopher requested this meeting and was to moderate. Perhaps he'll log on in a minute....
cbar - Do you know anything about Praxis?
Margie/AR - Which PRAXIS are you taking?
Kathleen - I'm afraid not, but here is a link to information at the nea site: http://www.msta.nea.org/praxis.html
Margie/AR - Does anyone know the next deadline date to register?
Kathleen - Hi Margie. I'm director of professional development activities here at Teachers.Net, I'm not taking the Praxis. The person who was to moderate has not logged on. Have you taken Praxis II?
Margie/AR - I've taken PRAXIS for Secondary Social Studies and need to take another section for my AR credential.
Margie/AR - I have to take the NTE too. Apparently, that's a test required only east of the Rockies.
Kathleen - The Praxis site: http://www.teachingandlearning.org/
Margie/AR - Anyone know how much the NTE is?
Naomi/notyet/NE - No I do not sorry.
Naomi/notyet/NE - how often do teachers have to take these tests?
Naomi/notyet/NE - I finished my PPST last semester
Margie/AR - I only have to take it the one time for my AR and CA credential.
Naomi/notyet/NE - I see
Naomi/notyet/NE - after you have taught or before you start teaching?
Margie/AR - CA requires passing the tests before being admitted to credential program.
Naomi/notyet/NE - what is the PRAXIS II?
Kathleen - I'm afraid I'm not familiar enough with this topic to fill in for the moderator. Does anyone here have some info to share which would be helpful to those facing the Praxis II?
Margie/AR - The only PRAXIS tests I've taken are those that deal with single-subject matter.
Kathleen - A lot of info here: http://www.ets.org/praxis
Naomi/notyet/NE - I thought the PRAXIS test was the PPST am I wrong?
Margie/AR - I think the PPST and the NTE are similar.
Kathleen - State by state requirements: http://www.ets.org/praxis/prxstate.html
Margie/AR - Basic educational and teaching skills. CA requires the CBEST for basic education testing.
Margie/AR - AR requires the NTE and 2 PRAXIS exams for single subject. In my case, the 2 that CA requires are not the same 2 that AR requires. Only 1 counted, so I have to take a second exam. Bummer.
Kathleen - Over 80 percent of the states that include tests as part of their licensure process -- 35 states out of 43 -- rely on The Praxis Series: Professional Assessments for Beginning Teachers®
Margie/AR - Personally, I think it is a money-making racket of the first degree.
Naomi/notyet/NE - really? why?
Margie/AR - Each state can set its own passing requirements, also.
Naomi/notyet/NE - yes I noticed that when I was internet job researching
Margie/AR - Because, if you take the test you wait 6-8 weeks for results. Scores are always mailed out just before the late registration deadline for the next test so that you have to pay the fee plus $60 late registration fee.
Naomi/notyet/NE - oh wow that is a racket
Margie/AR - Also, if you are like me and tend to procrastinate, you end up sweating the waiting time hoping that you've passed because if you didn't all your work was for naught, and you begin again.
Naomi/notyet/NE - do you have to wait for the results?
Naomi/notyet/NE - oh
Kathleen - The three categories of assessments in The Praxis Series correspond to the three milestones in teacher development: **Entering a teacher training program -- Praxis I: Academic Skills Assessments **Graduating from college and entering the profession -- Praxis II: Subject Assessments ***The first year of teaching -- Praxis III: Classroom Performance Assessments
Naomi/notyet/NE - the tests rely on the previous one then
Margie/AR - Since each state can also choose its own tests, the Analytical Essays portion counted for CA and AR, but CA required a different 2nd test than AR. So, I have to shell out another $65 bucks plus $30 (I think) for registration fees.
Naomi/notyet/NE - wow
Naomi/notyet/NE - and why doesn't anyone tell me this at University?
Margie/AR - Also, the last time I took the test, CA changed to passing requirements during the scoring period. So, even though I passed under the old rules, the scoring took place under the new rules and GUESS WHAT? I had to re-take the tests.
Kathleen - Certainly someone SHOULD tell you this at University
Margie/AR - Who knows why no one tells the student teachers? I had to find out everything the hard way.
Naomi/notyet/NE - at what stage? I will be student teaching in 3 semesters
Kathleen - Ask your advisor how you can access information about your state's specific requirements for licensing and testing
Margie/AR - Depends on your state. CA required proof of registration or passing tests before entering program. I HAD to pass in order to receive credit for a semester's worth of student teaching.
Naomi/notyet/NE - ok will do
Margie/AR - The really nifty part of the subject exams--another argument for the racket scheme--is that there is not a study guide available anywhere.
Kathleen - You can of course check with your state dept of ed, certification division, but your university should make it easier than having to wade through that beaurocracy, so check there first
Margie/AR - Since my field is Social Studies, that means I could get essay questions on anything from history to economics to government to sociology.
Naomi/notyet/NE - I had a study guide for the PPST and I used it for the reading and math, but did not use it for the essay part I just winged it
Naomi/notyet/NE - I passed all three sections the first time through
Margie/AR - Right, but the content exams for single subject do not have a study guide. The field is broad and one test requires 2 lengthy essays and the other one was 5 essays. One hour alloted each test.
Naomi/notyet/NE - oh wow not a lot of time to organize your essays
Margie/AR - I don't see how you can test a teacher's effectiveness with a multiple-choice test.
Margie/AR - Nope, its not much time. And like I said, you have no idea what the topics will be until you open up the exam book.
Naomi/notyet/NE - I think I missed something
Margie/AR - Does anyone wonder if it is effective to test the teachers repetitively on content?
Naomi/notyet/NE - some politicians seem to think so
Margie/AR - No, you didn't miss anything. Just thinking.
Margie/AR - How many politicians have you seen actually teaching in a high school lately?
Margie/AR - Are you teaching elementary or secondary?
Naomi/notyet/NE - ok I wondered because I went to the posted web site and came back to the same point in the conversation so I thought maybe the screen froze
Naomi/notyet/NE - I am hoping to teach 5-8 nscience but I will be qualified for K-8
Margie/AR - My credential is 7-12 for social studies.
Naomi/notyet/NE - lol that is right Margie and Bush (George W.) seems to think testing the students every year is a wonderful Idea
Margie/AR - Science teacher is a good plan--lots of jobs.
Naomi/notyet/NE - I hope so Margie
Naomi/notyet/NE - won't that cause teachers to teach the test
Margie/AR - Please don't let them begin standardized testing every year. As it is now, it can be nightmarish. BTW--I do think that an exit exam for HS is a good idea.
Naomi/notyet/NE - We want to move closer to the East Coast
Margie/AR - We already end up teaching to the test way too much, in my opinion.
Naomi/notyet/NE - I think so too Margie
Naomi/notyet/NE - how so you do that Margie, do you get a prep book or something?
Margie/AR - We have to teach to the test, so they can pass that and we have to teach to frameworks and we have to teach so many capability levels at the same time without discriminating against any one of them. Some
Margie/AR - Testing? We don't actually teach the test questions since we don't know them. But we are kept apprised of what types of questions are on the tests.
Margie/AR - Where did you want to move?
Christopher - Hi Everyone! I am to "mediate" things for the Praxis II testing,etc...
Christopher - Right now ...Workplace Orientation...trying to pass the Praxis II English Test
Margie/AR - Christopher--do you know when the next PRAXIS series registration deadline is?
Naomi/notyet/NE - So on the PRAXIS do you have just your subject matter to take?
Naomi/notyet/NE - Renja it will be
Christopher - On the praxis tests you must take 3 core batterery tests first before your specialty test
Margie/AR - Depends on the state, Christopher. CA doesn'
Renja - So what will praxis "prove" ?
Margie/AR - CA doesn't require PRAXIS II for secondary ed.
Christopher - Margie, the next deadline is Oct. 24, 2000
Margie/AR - AR requires the NTE and 2 subject matter tests. One I've already taken, the other isn't required by CA (although something else is) so I have to take it again.
Christopher - Renja, who knows what praxis is to prove, I suppose teacher competency in at least Indiana
Margie/AR - Thanks, Christopher. I guess I'll go get signed up. {Sigh}
Christopher - Margie, no problem...any tips about English test?
Renja - I am amazed at our profession, that we are tested when we move from state to state, engineers are not tested, once a PE always a PE
Christopher - The fee is not pleasant
Margie/AR - Content knowledge is also part of the testing. As to my earlier question, how does testing the teacher ad nauseum increase the student's learning capability?
Renja - I agree with Margie. So far I have proved in more than one state that I can do work up to the 8th grade
Margie/AR - I didn't have to take the English exam, but based on the SS, I would say make a brief outline of your essay in the margins before beginning to write. And help from any deity would probably not come amiss either. {Grin}
Christopher - What I would like to know is why can't we see our scores on past tests to help pass if we fail
Christopher - Margie, unfortunately there is no essay to write for the Praxis II English test.
Margie/AR - Probably a BIG classified secret or something. I still think the whole system is a money-making racket.
Renja - Interesting comment Chris, my husband is an engineer & he was able to see his scores to help him prepare to retake the test
Renja - MArgie, you are reading my mind!
Margie/AR - I've seen my scores, but it doesn't really tell me much because I got a different test the next time around.
Margie/AR - Great minds think alike, Renja.
Renja - MArgie you must have been an English major
Renja - I'm not a good typist
Christopher - Renja, I think maybe I misworded myself, seeing numerical figures is something everyone sees...I need to see what I failed to do correctly and those things I did do correctly for the same matter.
Margie/AR - Part of the teacher testing from state to state is (1) control and (2) states' rights issue
Margie/AR - I was a secretary for 10 years...making a living at typing tends to increase one's accuracy.
Renja - I think we need a nation wide teacher's strike
Christopher - Doing fine, classy! What are your views?
Margie/AR - Well, if we're going to strike, perhaps we should strike for money to pay for these tests. Why is it that they are required to keep your job, but come out of your own pocketbook?
Renja - Chris, as teachers we are poorly paid, highly educated, and yet society treats us as if we were babysitters
Christopher - Margie, I couldn't agree more! Testing is very costly.
Renja - Margie, you go girl, you keep asking the right questions
Renja - Classy I too am in TX & teach middle school literature
Margie/AR - Chris--I figure I've spent well over $1200 on testing including travel time, gas money, and other expenditures.
Christopher - I am interested in knowing, has anyone failed the Praxis tests besides myself?
Margie/AR - Yes. Twice. {Blush}
Christopher - I am teaching in Indiana, and so close to having a job it's not funny but cannot pass this test!
Margie/AR - I didn't take my job for the money, either. Fortunately, I'm in the enviable position of working because I want to not because I have to.
Margie/AR - Yes, Social Studies. It's a broad field so you could get essay questions on anything from economics to government to history (from ancient to modern) to sociology.
Renja - Listen for all the talk about not teaching for the money, the reality is I make less than $20 G a year & I work very hard at what I do.
Margie/AR - Renja-is that gross or net?
Renja - Margie that is GROSS
Margie/AR - Chris-what else about the test is bothering you?
classy_teacher - They will be forced to bring up teacher salaries soon, there is just not enough people interested in teaching anymore. Plus all the people who came in after the Vietnam War are at retirement age...
coast - Renja, I thought Mississippi was dead last.
Margie/AR - Renja-that really is gross. (ha)
Renja - I teach at a private school, have my MS & 7 years of experience
Christopher - Margie, I really think that the fact that one time I take the test, I fail by 9 points, the next by 40 some, the third time, 9 again...scoring descrepancy or simply my bungle three times
Margie/AR - The MS is the coming thing. I interviewed in MO, and their school district REQUIRES all teachers to have a MS.
Renja - Classy where is the money going to come from for teacher salaries??
coast - There are benefits to private schools, but I would never choose to teach in one.
Margie/AR - What sort of questions? You said no essay, so multiple choice?
Christopher - Margie, multiple choice...mainly useage...language and linguistics. What are those?
classy_teacher - You got me, LOL. It's going to have to come from somewhere though, education is important and if there are no teachers... then what? Someone would have to do something.
Margie/AR - OK, try scapping the guide book and reviewing a basic 8th or 9th grade textbook. You can often get loaners or giveaways from school districts.
classy_teacher - Then there is also the thought that if teachers salaries are raised more people would be attracted to the job for the summers "off" and the pay. Thats the wrong reasons to teach.
Christopher - I graduated with a b average after 4 years of college...what do you think the problem is?
Margie/AR - Summers off?! I think I missed that....
Renja - Classy after a few days in the real classroom, the wimps leave
Margie/AR - Christopher--my honest opinion? You're nervous and stressed.
Christopher - Margie, I will definately try going back to basics..that's about the only thing I have not tried:)
classy_teacher - Today was like Monday for me. We had Teacher in Service Monday and Tuesday.
Renja - Classy do you get the summers off???
classy_teacher - Thats for sure Renja!
coast - Teachers in Mississippi will receive $10,000 raise over the next four years and teachers achieving National Board Certification receive $6,000 per year for the ten years of the certificate. We're moving on up.
classy_teacher - I said "off". On the outside it appears to most people teachers have summers off, not the case.
Renja - Classy the logic you sighted before, is like saying , Yeah I want to be a fireman, because I work 1 day & get two off
Christopher - Margie, I think that you are correct...more than correct, just want to pass without spending an inordinate amount of money.:)
Margie/AR - Review a few things every day. Make flash cards to pick up and thumb through while waiting at the doctor's office. The night before the test, relax. Go see a movie or something. Then, sharpen your pencils, grab your ID and trundle off to school. You'll do fine.
Renja - Face it gang we are most appreciated the week before school starts
Margie/AR - Yes, well, Christopher at least it is money well spent. You are learning something every time you take the test.
classy_teacher - I'm just glad our FTA is back this year! ;o)
Renja - Chris the night before my comps I just relaxed, & read a book on something not related to the test, I passed
Margie/AR - Christopher--are you teaching or subbing or what?
Christopher - Renja, excellent advice...maybe stress is not our friend.:O)
Christopher - Margie, hold your seat...I am teaching Workplace Orientation (job shadowing, business principles), I am the attendance officer, I do ISTEP Remediation, and I substitute.
Margie/AR - Classy-I teach for several reasons, (1) it's a job I enjoy (2) I like the kids (3) on a more selfish point, these are the people who will be making my medicare policies, and I want them educated enough to make good, sound decisions.
Renja - Chris stress is not a friend. When my studetns start to get frustrated on a test, I make them lay their head down & think of a pretty place, then in 2-3 minutes I remind them they need to get back to work. It seems to help most of them
classy_teacher - Those are good reasons Margie!!
Christopher - ISTEP tests are standardized tests in Indiana and other states that students must pass to graduate.
Renja - It has been fun, but 5:30 am comes early
Margie/AR - Christopher--Great! Next time you sub, take your flashcards with you. Let the kids spend a few minutes making up questions (jeopard, hollywood squares, etc.) and let them quiz you. They'll enjoy it, they will learn something, and you'll get help studying.
Christopher - You, know Margie, I have thought of doing that...just didn't want to feel as though I was using them.
classy_teacher - Christopher I think they'd love to help you!
Margie/AR - Nah, use them. That's what they're there for, besides, they love trying to stump the teacher.
Margie/AR - If you forget your flashcards, Chris, chances are no matter what class you sub there will be someone with an English text of some sort. Use it.
Christopher - Margie, I think I might just. Kids will love the crazy challenge of it all, I believe
classy_teacher - Christopher I have a feeling you will do just fine! Just don't let the stress get to you.
Christopher - Classy, I will try not to any longer...don't believe that was really an issue but three times later...
Margie/AR - I tell my kids at major test time the following: Study well before the test. Don't cram. Relax. There comes a point where either you know it or you don't. Worrying about it makes it worse.
classy_teacher - Exactly Margie.
Christopher - Margie, just wondering...did I get the right information in college? Guess I will never know?
coast - I know someone who has taken the NTE required by my state 10 times and can't pass it. Knowing her I think it is a good thing that she is not in the classroom as a teacher.
Margie/AR - Chris-we use all sorts of games and gimmicks with the kids. It works for many of them, why not use the same techniques for us?
classy_teacher - At your local high schools do you know if they have the "Future Teachers of America" program?
Margie/AR - Chris--you probably did get the right information. The trouble is digging it out of your brain at the right time.
Margie/AR - Classy-no, I don't think so.
classy_teacher - I am one of the sponsors of our FTA class and was wondering how common it is in other schools. It's an excellent program.
Christopher - I do know my material and would almost guarantee that I could recite most anything if verbalized...unfortunately as with some of our students, tests are not administered that way.
Margie/AR - I've enjoyed chatting tonight, but hubby just got off the phone and I need to finish my grades.
Margie/AR - 'Nite.
Christopher - Margie, thanks again...have a great night and rest of the week.
classy_teacher - Bye Margie have a nice evening.
