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Mary K&1 - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net.
Mary K&1 - We didn't have much of a turn out last time, so we didn't discuss the latter stages of Making and Breaking as we had planned. We could discuss that tonight if you'd like. However, if there is anyone here who went to the Ohio Conference, I for one would like to hear about some of the high points.
Jill - Hi, I was in Ohio and was challenged by Marie Clay's talk. It was great to hear her.
Crystal - I went
Mary K&1 - Jill, what challenged you?
Jill - Did any of you go to the session on creating connections with classroom teachers? That was me.
Crystal - I enjoyed "3minutes that will make or break you
Mary K&1 - Hi Crystal, would you share a high point for us?
tyylee - I went to an excellent meeting in Ohio on how you look at your running records, errors in familiar reading, and errors in the new book to decide what to do for make and break.
Jill - was challenged by her call to really be able to move the program forward.
Mary K&1 - Did she give any suggestions as to how we can do that?
Jill - She asked R.R. teachers to be able to talk about what we do. Not to just say we teach a one on one reading program. She wanted us to know the components of the lesson and why they are effective.
Jill - She asked us to get SPECIFIC about where and why the powerful teaching occurs.
Mary K&1 - Jill, that can take a lot of talking!
tyylee - One thing that Mari mentioned was that we are being criticized because we don't teach comprehension. She felt that that was an error, that we should and do teach comprehension of the books we are reading.
Mary K&1 - We need to have a time to do that, it's not something you do effectively on the run while passing in the hall.
Jill - It can, but one thing I am noticing since I got back is that when I teach, I am looking more closely at the outcomes that I want. I am working on a daily basis to make concrete progress rather than waiting till the end of the week to "see" how we're doing.
cel - Can any one tell me how to get to the RR archives?
Mary K&1 - cel, which ones?
Jill - She challenged us to discontinue one more child a piece. Well, I only discontinued one child last semester and I am not satisfied with that. I have been trying to find out what moves I can make as a teacher to ACCELLERATE.
Mary K&1 - The listserve archives are at http://archives.gsn.org/readrecov/
cel - I am on the gsn.org list serve. it would be that one. Is there more than one?
Mary K&1 - The archives of these meetings are at http://teachers.net/archive/index.html under the Reading Recovery Heading.
cel - thank you so much. I need to go look something up and then I will be back.
Jill - Did anyone else go to Ohio? What did you learn?
Jill - I am concerned about one of my students who seems to have bits of knowledge in all sorts of areas. None of them seem to be consistent. Day to day, I think we have a strategy or skill - then it's gone.
Mary K&1 - Jill, did you do a session at the conference about communication with the regular class room teacher?
Jill - Yes.
Doug - Our new TL just told yellow track group that after 20 weeks, if they are not ready to hold off and pick them up later in the year.
Jill - I work with a lot of new teachers. I wanted to learn how to work with them constructively - as well as treat my veteran teachers with respect.
Mary K&1 - Can you share some of your advice concerning doing that? I have a difficult time getting my teachers to understand
tyylee - We have talked about the necessity of fluency here and Mari Clay emphisized that the child must be able to Rapidly work out continuous text.
Doug - tyylee- this is important. I have a child though that orally speaks slowly and should I still expect fluency and phrasing even though it is not there orally?
Jill - One of the ways I have been successful with my new teachers is to "get in there" and help them with whatever they are struggling with. Building collegiality (sp?) and trust has come through sharing. We discuss planning, student troubles, as well as strategies for teaching reading.
Mary K&1 - tyylee, that is very important, but it's so hard to over come when everyone else is telling the kids to "sound out" everything. My kids were doing fairly well and then all of a sudden they all started sounding out, letter by letter! I don't know where it came from other than home and the classroom, I just about died!!
Jill - With the "older" teachers, I have found that they really enjoy coming to watch a literacy group or reading recovery lesson. It seem s to help them understand what we do. They are less threatened because they see some of the things they have done all along incorporated in our lessons. It validates their ideas and opens the door for discussion.
Lisa - Are any of your classroom teachers doing Saxon phonics??
Jill - Not mine.
tyylee - One of the sessions talked about listening to the child's oral speach and sometimes having to accept that child's way of speaking and reading as normal for him or her.
Lisa - It has been a nightmare for the RR teachers in my building.......really undermines fluency
Jill - Wow - I hadn't heard that tyylee - but it makes great sense!
Mary K&1 - Jill, your schedule allows for getting into the classrooms? Mine doesn't and I wish it did. I have hopes that next year it will be different. There are rumors floating about that our positions will become full time. I sure hope so.
tyylee - Mary, I have the same problem. It is improving as we talk to the classroom teachers about our strategies and show them how to teach chunking and analogies.
lisa - Ours are doing Saxon, but there aren't enough materials. So they share and do it once a week, not daily. I haven't noticed that it's done much good.
Lisa - tyylee, i have heard that.......we have a child like that in our school, when we met her mother we heard the exact same speech pattern
Jill - I work 1/2 day Reading Recovery and 1/2 day Literacy Library coordinator. Last year I worked 1/2 day Literacy groups. the way we get together is by using the times when a child is absent - or planning a "lunch" session.
Lisa - we've just accepted her monotone reading, but we do still have hopes
Mary K&1 - tyylee, do we count things like 'teached' for taught as errors, or do we accept things like this a OK for now for that child?
Doug - I just read about a non conventional way to approach fluency....you go back a few levels and lightly connect the words showing how to read in phrases and followed the next few days with using the book at familiar reading
Lisa - that was my submission
Lisa - IT WORKED WONDERS!!!!!! I'm a little excited, can you tell??
Doug - the connection is shown with a lightly drawn pencil mark
tyylee - They advised that early in the lessons we accept their lingo but later try to get them to visually see the differences and at least repeat the correct pronounciation after teacher modeling.
Jill - I have a quesion. I have a LEP child who reads fairly well - but still has trouble with "syntax". I am often tempted to let some of it go because he has the meaning....what do you think?
Mary K&1 - I teach RR in the PM - if the child is absent, I still can't see how reading and writing is being done in the classroom - at that time they are teaching math and soc. studies
Lisa - I teach RR full time..........anyone else??
Doug - Lisa- wow....9 kids?
Lisa - no, actually 8 kids
bccpcc - I teach 6 RR children and work a 75% day
Jill - Ahhhhh..... Sometimes we ask the teachers to switch their schedules. Sometimes we use an inservice day to invite classroom teachers behind the glass. Sometimes we ask another teacher to cover on her planning period so that two teachers can meet to talk.
lisa - Even eight sounds like a lot with all the paperwork we do...
Lisa - It's not as mind-boggling as I thought it would be. I LOVE it
Mary K&1 - Jill, that is about the same as my question earlier. I think that I just read something, maybe on the OS Book that we do not have to count errors like that as errors, but I can't be sure, I'm going to have to go back and have another look
Doug - Jill- ask the child which sounds better...reread her sentence followed by the conventional way that the book used. Most kids will choose the conventional sentence
Jill - I didn't think we were allowed to teach more than four? what's up?
tyylee - Another thing that has helped our communication with classroom teachers has been our move into 'Literacy Groups' which use many RR teachniques.
Mary K&1 - Jill, your school really supports your efforts. I should work harder on that
Jill - Great idea Doug. I bet the student could get it that way.
Lisa - Jill, is your principal supportive of RR?
bccpcc - You can teach more than 4 if your site is fully implemented and have the okay from your Teacher Leader
Jill - Well, we have had to really delve into literacy. We are a "low performing" school. One of the reasons we have made such moves to support each other is our fear and trepidation at what will happen if our students continue to flounder, We've got to find a better way.
Doug - bccpcc- I bet you almost have to do 30 min lessons
Lisa - My TL ok'ed 8 students. I don't think it's commonplace
Jill - Yes, My principal is supportive of RR - to a point. She funds one of us and our district funds one. But, we really need four.
bccpcc - Yes, I do give each student a 30 minute lesson
Mary K&1 - Jill, how many first grade classes do you have, and how many children in each class?
tyylee - How is RR funded in your districts? Title 1 funds most of ours with Spec. Ed doing a few.
Lisa - Marie Clay will be speaking to us in Atlanta on March 17........anyone else attending?
Jill - We have 6 English speaking first grades with 22 students in each. One bilingual with 24 students.
Lisa - We are funded by Title I in my district
lisa - Lisa, I'll be there! I'm really excited about it. Are you in Atlanta?
tyylee - Lisa, go hear Barbara Watson if she comes with Mari. She is very interesting....
Jill - Does it matter what the average reading levels are?
Lisa - No, I'm near Chattanooga, TN, but my TL is out of Atlanta
bccpcc - I heard Marie Clay speak in February in Ohio
Mary K&1 - Ours are funded by Title 1. And we have not been using all of our funds each year, we have had to give money back because we didn't use it. But I think things are going to be different now. There has been an election and a couple of the hard to deal with board members are now gone, if you know what I mean.
tyylee - Jill, do you mean average mid year for comparison to our children?
lisa - I'm in Atlanta. See you there.
Jill - Did you enjoy her speech?
Lisa - geez, unused funds????
Lisa - lisa, who's your TL??
Mary K&1 - That's a chalenge, Jill, I can see why you need more RR teachers.
bccpcc - Yes, Marie delivered a very thought provoking speech
lisa - Hershene Borrin. Who's yours?
tyylee - Unused funds? I teach RR half day and Title 1 small groups half day.
Jill - I guess I'm spoiled. I came from the same size school and we had a crew of 6.
Lisa - tyylee, do you feel you're more productive as a RR teacher or small groups?
bccpcc - How many Reading Recovery teachers that are in the chat room are at fully implemented school sites?
Lisa - Gail Baggett
Jill - Tyylee - what I meant was - if an average school needs to cover 20% What if our average reading levels show us that about 35% of our kids are in need of the program.
Lisa - ok, dumb question..........define fully implemented
bccpcc - What does your District consider as "fully implemented"?
bccpcc - Some sites see "fully implemented" as one RR Teacher per 40 students
tyylee - It depends upon the child. Some children do well in small groups and others just can't get the support and instruction they need. I have second round children that have been in my Title groups all year and are now lower than my first round RR children because I just couldn't meet their needs.
Jill - Is anyone here a T.L. I have a question about implementation. Aren't there rules about "full coverage" at one school before beginning the program in the next school?
Mary K&1 - Did any of you who are now teaching RR full time teach RR and Kindergarten before? If so, do you find it is easier not to have to spread your strength and resources over such a wide area?
Lisa - I think we're fully implemented........one full-time and two half-time RRT's for 5 first grades
bccpcc - Other Districts consider fully implemented as "when all students needing RR get it"!
Mary K&1 - My school is not fully implemented, I'm still hoping that this will change soon
Jill - My partner came from a district where each first grade teacher was trained...wow! They taught in teams of three and covered two full size classes.
Lisa - we actually ran out of kids to serve last year
bccpcc - Lisa by the end of the year are all 1st graders considered at grade level?
Lisa - and we're 98% free and reduced lunch
tyylee - Some low achieving schools may need to serve more than 20% of their first graders. We are a small school and serve more like 40% and just about get all who need our help.
bccpcc - Jill tell me more about your partners previous arrangement
Jill - Lisa - any positions open? I want to come teach where you are!!!!
Lisa - bccpcc, all kids are considered grade level except for Special Ed students
Mary K&1 - Lisa, did any of the kids go into a long term program for learning problems?
Lisa - yes, a few were tested and went into Resource/Special Ed.
bccpcc - Congratulations Lisa - your team reached the ultimate goal - What District/State are you in?
Jill - Sandy worked in League City TX. She was at a first grade campus. There were 20 first grade classes. Each "team" covered two full size classes. One full time math/science teacher, two, 1/2 time reading teachers. From listening to here describe it, it sounds heavenly. They team taught.
Lisa - Jill, it's a terrific district........lots of support
bccpcc - Lisa, what is your site's procedure after a child is exitted and needs further intervention/testing?
Lisa - I'm in Cleveland City Schools in Cleveland, TN........near Chattanooga
Lisa - bccpcc, the procedure is: the child is referred for testing and two teams convene to make decisions regarding the child
tyylee - How many different RR conferences are held around the US?
bccpcc - Lisa, how long does the process from Team meeting to placement take on average
tyylee - Do some states have their own Conferences?
Lisa - usually 4-6 weeks
Lisa - anyone else going to Greensboro?
bccpcc - Tyylee, There are numerous regional RR Conferences, one National held in Ohio, and every other year an International Conference
Jill - Lisa, Do you serve these kids in literacy groups while they are waiting for other services?
Mary K&1 - PA has had a few, but didn't have one this year
bccpcc - Lisa, you seem to be at a very well organized site
Jill - Texas has its own conference in November each year - then again, TX has its own everything :)
Lisa - Jill, we don't have literacy groups, per se...........our classroom teachers are trained in Guided Reading
Lisa - Jill, are you in Texas?
ginny - The PA conference is now called the Mid Atlantic Conferecne becasue it includes Maryland, Virginia and WEst Virginia as well as PA. It was held in Baltimore in November, 99 and will be in Pittsburg this Fall. Jin us!
Mary K&1 - ginny, thanks for that information, I might be able to make it to Pittsburgh
ginny - I think I heard that RoseMary Estice will be at the conference in Pittsburg
bccpcc - Has anyone had experience sharing a class and also doing Reading Recovery?
tyylee - How does one find out about the area conferences? Are they listed somewhere?
Lisa - question: have any of you been told not to "take" a student if he/she tested too low mid year??
Mary K&1 - I don't share a class, I teach a session of Kindergarten each morning instead
Lisa - tyylee, try RRCNA website
bccpcc - Lisa, no I thought we were to service the lowest children - Tell me more
Jill - That's a tough one. I haven't been told to do it - but we have considered it. Especially if a student was already going to be referred for other services.
bccpcc - Tyylee- your teacher leader should have a list
tyylee - We are always told to take the lowest. Occasionally we try to hurry up school testing for Sp Ed. before we take the child.
Mary K&1 - tyylee, that's a good question, I was wondering the same thing
Lisa - my TL has been known to say that if a child tested too low midyear, then he/she likely needed to be tested for Special Ed
Jill - Tyylee - I bet they are listed on the RR site.
ginny - I have not shared a class but have two teachers across the hall from me that do. One takes the language arts in AM and does RR in PM. The other does contrect areas and does RR the other half day.
Lisa - by "too low", she means below Level 3 or 4
bccpcc - Our District uses RR as the 1st intervention for a child then goes to further testing
Mary K&1 - Lisa, I've not been told that, I suppose if you are not fully implemented you may need to be a bit selective, I don't know, but you are fully implemented, I think that you should take them all
ginny - the children we are getting for second round are coming in at Leverls 2, 3, 4, and 5.
Jill - I have a question. Is there any way to support RR students in years beyond first grade?
tyylee - What would you consider 'too low' ? Some of my second round children came in at text level 3 and we are making progress.
Lisa - we've only "butted" heads on this once or twice, but we took them anyway
bccpcc - I just picked up a student who is a Level A and we are half way through the 3rd Quarter on year-around schedule
Mary K&1 - ginny, that's normal here
Lisa - I took a Level B second round, and she's doing WONDERFULLY........she's the one I used the fluency trick with
bccpcc - Jill, if you have a full-time RR teacher they can have "Booster Groups" - students who have had RR
Mary K&1 - bccpcc, any thoughts as to why that student is so low?
bccpcc - Yes, many schools (5 -6) during kindergarten and 1st grade
Lisa - Booster Groups are great bccpcc
Mary K&1 - Lisa, are you the one who did the line drawing?
ginny - the level 2, 3, 4 and 5 are normal for us, too. These are our lowest at this time and they usually make great progress. We find they are coming in with item knowledge but do not know what to do with it in text reading. I really enjoy these children.
Lisa - we have a second grade teacher who...........lacks a lot, and our RR kids drown in her class, it's really tragic
Lisa - Mary, yes, it was me
bccpcc - ginny, I have often found the same result
Jill - I was surprised to get a student on a level 2 who I thought wasn't going anywhere. That's when you REALLY have to follow the child. My teacher leader helped me understand that I was directing him to things he doesn't dwell on. (visual) He needed to go on to more difficult text with richer language before he could come back and notice what was going on with letters.
bccpcc - Are the classroom teachers you are working with teaching Guided Reading daily and at a similiar level as you have your students in RR?
Jill - Lisa - same problem here. That's why I am looking for support for these kids. Booster groups sound great - but we don't have anyone to do them.
Mary K&1 - Jill, how did the reading go at first when you moved to higher levels?
Mary K&1 - Did you give rich and complete book intros?
Lisa - bccpcc, our classroom teachers are just beginning with GR, and have just gotten leveled books, so they're really experimenting. I'm working with them to do running records now
bccpcc - Lisa, are they receptive?
Jill - MaryK - the ones who truly had a self-extending system are doing fine in spite of their next teachers. It's the students who were reading accurately - but not necessarily fluently that need the support. There were some at the end of last year who we just "ran out of time with."
Mary K&1 - Are Booster groups like Literacy Groups?
tyylee - Jill, what level did your TL recommend using?
hukilau - Lisa, I hope your teachers are more apt to do running records than our teachers
Mary K&1 - Hi Gigi, did you learn anything at CC tonight?
bccpcc - Mary, yes Booster Groups are like Literacy Groups - I used the Arkansas Model with the 2nd and 3rd graders who had had RR in 1st
Lisa - well, they we have high hopes for them! I'm available to help, so maybe we'll be successful
Ann_NJ - Lisa, what kind of GR books did you purchase ? A particular companies or ....
Lisa - We purchased a lot of Wright Group books (about $30,000 worth)
hukilau - Lisa, we have been training our teachers for the past 3 years.
bccpcc - Lisa, good -luck - those who want to grow professionally will - spend your time and energies with them
Lisa - they also use some classroom sets that they already had
Gigi/MO - I guess I heard something for the first time!! I didn't know that you didn't HAVE to do Making and breaking during a lesson!!
Lisa - are your teachers receptive?
bccpcc - Gigi- tell me more about M&B not being madatory
Mary K&1 - Gigi, is that at the end of a child's program, or any time?
hukilau - Has anyone purchased the new pebblebooks?
Gigi/MO - Of course, the student should be having ALOT under control before you would skip it but I had never heard that before!!
bccpcc - I heard from Dr. Kelley that M/B fades at the end of the child's program also
Lisa - hmmmmmm, something new for me too! Have any of you heard the new "stuff" about analyzing writing?
bccpcc - Lisa, what new stuff?
Lisa - sounds a little like a running record for writing?
Gigi/MO - It IS towards the end of a child's program when THEY are doing M and B on the run by themselves!!
bccpcc - Did you hear about it at the Nat Con in Ohio?
Y - Tell me more about Booster groups and the "Arkansas model"!
Mary K&1 - Yes, we've been analyzing writing in CC
bccpcc - Gigi - I have heard the same about M&B
bccpcc - The Arkansas Model is a 45 minute program begun in Arkansas as a shell for Literacy Groups
Lisa - speaking of CC, how many do you all have a year?
tyylee2 - lisa, three each semester
Gigi/MO - It's fun to go to class and still be hearing things for the first time!! (even after 3 1/2 years)
bccpcc - It has many of the same components as a RR lesson & same philoshpy- but is meant for small group instruction
Mary K&1 - We should be seeing more and more in the writing, the sentences should be getting longer and more complex as time goes on, is that what you mean?
bccpcc - We meet monthly for CC after the first year of training
Mary K&1 - We meet every month except Dec. and Jan.
Gigi/MO - We meet 6 times a year which works out about 3 times per semester!!
bccpcc - One chart I have to analyze Writing deals with how many: words taken to fluency, letter work, boxes, and analogies
Mary K&1 - Maybe we meet in Jan, I can't remember :-\
Mary K&1 - bccpcc, you have a chart for that?
Ann_NJ - We meet about 5 times a year
Gigi/MO - We had optional times in Dec. and Jan.!!
Mary K&1 - Sounds good
bccpcc - What interruptions have you encountered that prohibit you from getting all your lessons in (ie, meeting, other duties, etc)
Ann_NJ - Lisa , where does a school district get $30,000. to spend on books. We are really in need.
bccpcc - Mary, yes it was given at one of the Conferences I attended
Lisa - ok, another question...........it seems that during the btg sessions, we're all repeating the same things........"he's monitoring, he's processing, etc." any suggestions.........it's making me CRAZY!!
bccpcc - Lisa, have you talked about where the child's ZPD is at each point of the lesson?
Lisa - it was systemwide Title I money........we have a couple of very high free/reduced schools
Lisa - we have discussed ZPD, but not throroughly
bccpcc - Sometimes it's interesting to discuss what is the next step for the child at each portion of the lesson
Ann_NJ - There was a worksheet for analyzing writing floating around the RR listserv. You might try the archives to see a copy.
bccpcc - What prompts should be used and why
Chris - Lisa, we have a TL fresh from Ohio so she drills us on not only what the ch is doing (monitoring, SC etc) but WHY as well. It's nervewracking but boy do we learn to be good observers!
bccpcc - Chris, who is your TL - My TL was loaned to us from Ohio 7 years ago for my Training Class
Lisa - do your TL's call on you if you haven't participated enough in the discussion??
Chris - bccpcc, her name is Marggie P. she was a teacher in our consortium until last year and yes Lisa, she will call on ALL of us!
hukilau - No, but we all usually have something to contribute to the session.
Gigi/MO - Lisa--Yes!!
bccpcc - Has anyone seen or know where Colleen Griffith is? She was a TL and then went to Ohio to work in RR
Mary K&1 - Well, I have to go now, thanks all for coming, this was a nice meeting
