Join the Reading Recovery Mailring listed in the English Center at the
Teacher Mailring Center
http://www.teachers.net/mailrings/
Mary K&1 - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net.
Mary K&1 - Tonight we will discuss Book Orientations - Change Over Time and Writing - including "Genuine Conversation".
Mary K&1 - What's new in the area of Book Orientations?
Mary K&1 - We were told at our last CC that Predict and Locate is now to be called New and Important Words
Doug - mary- is the general rule one to two words?
Mary K&1 - Two words, like Marie says in the GB
Doug - sure its not 10 LOL
Mary K&1 - And it's always "What would you expect to see at the BEGINNING of _________" never the end
Doug - Mary- what was meant by "genuine?"
Mary K&1 - Some kind of real conversation, not a Q & A session
Doug - I find that if I stick to a response from the running record book, I can get a nice sentence
Mary K&1 - Listen to the child's chatter before the lesson or during if it occurs and build upon it or just say "Let's write that down"
Mary K&1 - Doug, that works well and is often all you can get out of the not-so-talkative types
Doug - mary- at our cc meeting our TL gave us the idea that it is a good idea to have the child read 1-3 stories from previous writing before they write. it is like familiar reading just familiar writing
ginny - I agree that we can often get good sentences that allow us some powerful teaching when we take off from the running record book but I am concerned when that is the only type writing that I see. I think we need to be sure that we allow the child to give to our conversations and that helps them learn that they can write about many, many things .. not just books they have read.
didi - What happens when you get very similar sentences frequently
Doug - didi- after a few lessons, I encourage kids to vary their beginning word...try something else other than I like......
Mary K&1 - ginny, you are right. I try to remember something that the child was telling me before the lesson, or some kind of spontaneous statement made and then at writing time remind him/her of it and get it back to write about
ginny - if sentences become patterned then the RRT has do to something to break that pattern. A real conversation can help do that or just telling the child we will not be writing any more "I like...." sentences may be necessary
Doug - didi- if you pick up the child and have a chat, remind the child to talk about that in the sentence
Mary K&1 - Doug that is a good suggestion, but if the child has been generating the same kind of sentence for several days, you may not want to do that, in an attempt to change the style or content
Doug - mary- that is true
Mary K&1 - I'm having better luck with my second rounders - Before we start the lesson I always ask them how hey are doing and what did they do last night or this morning and they usually have something to say and then I remember to have them tell me more when we get to the writing
didi - what criteria do you use when choosing the word to fluency
Doug - at our cc meeting our tl told us to use a writing spree once every few weeks to check on vocabulary. It is in the GB p. 15 , "Now look at what the child cannot do....its the first bullet
Mary K&1 - didi, first it must be a high frequency word, then it must be one that the child needed during writing and was able to write at least 50% of it himself
ginny - When choosing a word for learning to fluency I go to the suggestions in GB page 30
Mary K&1 - Yes, Doug that is a good thing to do
Doug - the spree is like the WV test on the OS, you just use the known writing words
Mary K&1 - It also helps them learn how to think about all the words they know and write them quickly
Mary K&1 - Doug, do you do it for 2 minutes?
didi - the spree?
Doug - I have been omitting the sentence once every 2 weeks....a university trainer told the TL to do it
Mary K&1 - Doug, do you do the spree before the lesson or in place of M&B?
Mary K&1 - Oh, I see
Doug - mary- it keeps my weekly vocabulary records in check
Doug - once every 2 weeks instead of writing
Mary K&1 - didi, a spree is like a WV OS item, but for a shorter time - 2 mins.
Mary K&1 - I keep hearing that there have been some changes or discussion about the Book Orientation, but I don't know what? Can anyone help enlighten me?
didi - like what?
Doug - mary- I heard the changes were given to the TL's at the ohio conference
Mary K&1 - didi, that's what I'd like to know, the only change that I have heard about is that we are to call the "Predict and Locate" "New and Important Words" now
didi - We did hear last year that whereas we had cut support in the higher levels up 15> that they had revised that to say a detailed orientation was still ok.
Mary K&1 - didi, I heard the same thing, but I found out just recently that this didn't mean all the time, just now and then
ginny - my understanding is that as we move up the levels we continue to give supportive orientations to scaffold the child's reading of the new text....always.
didi - Your terms for things sound a bit different to what we use but mean the same
Mary K&1 - Doug, are the TLs going to share what they were given?
didi - Yes ginny that's what we were told last year
didi - I have to go soon I'm on class in 5 mins
Mary K&1 - didi, where are you?
didi - Cirns North Australi-Queensland
Mary K&1 - WOW, that's great, didi
didi - Cairns Australia- sorry my typing is not too good
Doug - didi- California here...welcome
didi - Where are you and how long have you been on RR this is my 2nd year
Mary K&1 - didi what terms are we using that are different?
Mary K&1 - I'm in Pennsylvania, this is my 7th year teaching RR
didi - It scrolled off now but the meaning of it was what I understood
ginny - Mary, What training site are you with in PA. I am from PA, also.
Mary K&1 - Edinboro
ginny - Didi, Was it book orientation, supportive or scaffold that was different?
Mary K&1 - IU5
didi - one of the terms in book orientation that you said has changed but as i'm not good on terms I could have missed it
didi - must go I am on year 2 now
Doug - I just hate changing the topic
ginny - I think that it was Barbara Watson that told us to use "new and Important words" rather than Predict and Locate. I think I have that info from the conference in Baltimore
didi - Thanks for this I have 40 mins of noncontact time now so will try again another week
Mary K&1 - We have had something called Predict and Locate, but in the GB Marie says that we should have the child pedict what he would expect to see that the beginning of New and Important Words, so now that is what we should call it, - New and Important words
Doug - our tl told us a story where barbara herself was observing a teacher in california....the child was reading word by word on the familiar reading. Right after the first book on the familiar reading, barbara walks over to the microphone turns it off and says that "we have seen enough, we know how the lesson will turn out..."
Mary K&1 - Yes, Doug, that is quite a thing she did. I guess that fluency is expected right off the bat, not something to wait for
Doug - this was harsh but very instructive.... if fluency is the focus, nothing else can be done
ginny - Barbara does have a way of getting her message across, doesn't she?
Gigi/MO - I've only heard it called---Predict and locate!!
Mary K&1 - I think that in the Book Orientation, we should remind the child of this and be sure that we give them the structures that are not common in the child's own language structures and have them repeat them fluently and tell them that they should read them like talking
Mary K&1 - Gigi, We were told to call it New and Important Words from now on
ginny - Mary, I agree ... And I think that the fluency issue does relate to our orienations. When we begin to pull back support then I think we really make it so difficult for the child that he can't get any fluenty going and it breaks down the whole proces. If I am going to err on support I think it best to ere to being too supportive .. if there is such a thing as too much support
Gigi/MO - OK--I'll do it WHEN I REMEMBER!!
Mary K&1 - Fluency is very important and we must get it going even in Roaming - not wait and allow the child to continue to reenforce the slow word by word reading that he has been doing
Gigi/MO - I really have never heard of book orientations either!! Are they teh same as book introductions?? Am I just behind the times??
Mary K&1 - I do think that when the child is close to discintinuing that we must pull back so that the testing situation isn't too much of a strange situation for the child
ginny - I think some of the responses at the last meeting about whether we need to do ten roaming sessions with second round children really helped to drive this point home. WE CAN get the child reading fluently in roaming and that can set that child up for success in early lessons , etc, etc.
Maureen - I have been working hard on fluency from Day One and I find that it really pays off.
Mary K&1 - Yes, Maureen, I totally agree.
Mary K&1 - I used to think that fluency was something that a child had to work up to over a period of time, but now I know that it is something that he can do right now if we just show him how and require that he do it
Doug - Maureen- I have been working on fluency with 2nd rounders and it is paying off
Maureen - Book Orientations are being researched here in NZ. My TL is going to visit us and tape our intros. Then we have to tape and send in RRec of next day
Mary K&1 - Maureen, earlier we were discussing getting a genuine conversation going in order to generate a story to write, do you have any suggestions for doing this?
Mary K&1 - Oh, Maureen, that should be very interesting! For how long will this research be gathered?
Maureen - I find that the list of suggestions on p29 is a good guide. The short but genuine conversation is the tricky bit!
Doug - maureen- it took me a whole year to stop pointing
Maureen - I don't know how many times we will be visited, but the best part of this year, I think.
Mary K&1 - Yes it is, sometimes some of the children just don't have much to say and other times they say far too much, we have to sort out a part to write.
Mary K&1 - Doug, pointing at what?
Mary K&1 - Do you mean you pointing or the child?
Maureen - We got told early in our training that we had to get the child's finger down. So I found myself pointing with my pencil!
Doug - mary- my training year, i would ask questions and point to things
Doug - I would even hold the book
Mary K&1 - Oh, I see, I do it once in a while when the chld is having a big bit of trouble - usually this happens when the child's structure is over riding the print and he knows it, but can't stop his mouth from saying it
Maureen - And do the reading, Doug??
Gigi/MO - I listened to a tape from a past RR conf. onWriting Strategies and she asks the children to tell her some news that they can write about instead of asking them what they can write about that day!! She said when we ask them what can we write about today t
Mary K&1 - Oh, No, Doug would never do that!
Doug - maureen- yes many tolds
Gigi/MO - that is like asking us to write a 200 word story!! Sorry this didn't all print out earlier!!
Mary K&1 - I like that - "Tell me some news" - I'll try that the next time we get stuck
Doug - yes...thanks gigi
Maureen - I try to initate a conversation about something I know that the child has done...in class or I say...I saw you on the playground...who did you play with etc. And often I use a book that the child has just read to me.
Gigi/MO - I've been trying it and it seems to help!! The tape was by Lee Scandelaris (sp?)!!
Maureen - I have read and article by her in the Running Record...it was very helpful.
ginny - her artcle in the running record was excellent
Mary K&1 - What should we talk about next time?
Maureen - Thanks Mary. Any ideas for next time?
Mary K&1 - What would you suggest?
Mary K&1 - We meet the 2nd and 3rd Mondays of each month
Mary K&1 - 9:00 Eastern US time
Maureen - Maybe the Tchrs Role in change over time in writing?
Mary K&1 - Oh, Maureen, that would be a good one, thanks - I sure hope that you can be here
ginny - Maureen, WE have been discussing that topic in our continuing contact sessions and it has been very helpful. That sounds graet to me!!!!
Doug - maureen- that would be excellent
Mary K&1 - April 10th
Peg - anything about RR sounds good to me!
Gigi/MO - Peg--What state are you from?
Peg - NY
Mary K&1 - OK, thanks all, see you on the 10th - The Teacher's roll in change over time in Writing! Sounds Great!
Maureen - OK. Should be here...we have two weeks break coming up. I'll be at the keyboard any way...paper to write.
Mary K&1 - Thank you all for coming
Mary K&1 - And Good Night
