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Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net.
Mary/PA - Tonight's topic is "Procedures for Discontinuing."
pd - so, does anyone have discontinuing concerns?
Mary/PA - What are your specific procedures for discontinuing?
Mary/PA - What does your TL require of you?
pd - My trouble is that even discont. at 18 isn't high enough.
leftcoast - I am discontinuing a child for referral. I have had someone do the OS and running records for him. anything else I should know?
Doug - At our district, we can give the whole OS except for text reading. We also have a little form to send to our TL
Mary/PA - left, so you aren't really discontinuing him, you are exiting him?
Doug - pd- do you mean 18 is not the middle of the class?
leftcoast - Yes, I guess that is it. I am not going to continue working with him.
pd - No, 18 is near the bottom.
Mary/PA - We are not to give any part of the OS, another must give the whole thing
Mary/PA - pd, that's tough!
Doug - mary- logistically that must be a hard thing
leftcoast - We have been told that to discontinue, after submitting the form and getting permission from our TL that we can do the word tests.
pd - Mary, do you feel that your kids may not perform as well for a stranger (in disc.)
Mary/PA - Two weeks before we want to discontinue a child, we have to send a tape of him reading a familiar text to our TL along with copies of his last 5 lesson records and rr's and the recommendations for discontinuing
leftcoast - I was wondering about the ten-minute word write, how much if any suggestion is permitted.
Mary/PA - Doug, yes, it's difficult, we have to pull someone away from their teaching
Doug - Well here's a thought...I think we (the US) is too involved with the old Scott Foresman benchmark books. I loved hearing that the NZ teachers can give a book of their choice
Mary/PA - pd, they usually do as well as normally, a few may not, but that's not the norm
pd - I agree, Doug
Doug - leftcoast- we look for 40 or more ...I like to look for sets that were independently written, fat cat mat sat etc.
leftcoast - We were given conflicting advice from TL's about using fairy tales for discontinuing. ANy comment?
Mary/PA - left, for the word test we must be sure to not make it seem like a spelling test...prompt for groups of words or categories, prompt to get the child thinking
pd - What do they say about using fairy tales?
leftcoast - pd, one says we cannot use them, the other says that if the text itself is unfamiliar, it doesn't matter that they may already know the story, because we are not trying tot rip them up.
Mary/PA - Doug, that's why we have to make the decision about discontinuing long before we give the OS. The OS is just for the records, it is not the deciding factor.
pd - In the word test, if we are prompting them with the suggested words during the first admin. of the OS, it seems you should be able to use those words again when disc.
Mary/PA - leftcoast, what do you mean by fairy tales?
Mary/PA - How do you use fairy tales for discontinuing?
leftcoast - Mary, in our RR books (PM) we have Little Red Hen, Gingerbread Man, 3 Pigs, etc.
Mary/PA - pd, you can prompt toward those words, but not state one word at a time as if you are giving a spelling test
pd - Leftcoast, you use those for text readings instead of Scott For.?
Mary/PA - leftcoast, yes, but how do you use those for discontinuing?
Mary/PA - I'm not seeing the connection
leftcoast - We use PM and PM plus, and we have a reference book with levels for all sorts of publishers (Canada)
pd - Leftcoast, where do you teach?
Mary/PA - Oh, leftcoast, so you don't use the Scott Forseman test booklets the way we do here in the States?
leftcoast - Mary, besides the OS, someone other than ourselves must do running records on three levels of text, unseen, ie easy, instructional, and hard.
Mary/PA - You do it the right way
Mary/PA - Leftcoast, in that case, I can see the concern. The kids would have an advantage in the meaning
leftcoast - I've never seen the Scott Forsman ones
Mary/PA - leftcoast, I wish we did it that way
Doug - leftcoast- your not missing anything...they were published in 1971
pd - It's funny that you say that, Mary. I took some library books out (hard covers) and presented them to my students during lessons. They were so thrilled that they were reading "real" books, as if the RR books aren't real!!
leftcoast - pd, when my first one that reached level 15 got to the fairy tales, she thought she was reading "real books".
Doug - pd- What about The Chick and the Duckling by Ginsberg and mercer mayer books
Mary/PA - Yes, pd, I like to give my kids as many hard covered books as possible, it makes them feel like they are reading "real" books.
leftcoast - One I have now who is at 15 is only beginning to discover she can read real books, ie ones in her classroom
Mary/PA - I can remember feeling that way when I was a kid, a long time ago
pd - Doug, I didn't use any hard covers until two weeks ago.
pd - When do your school years end? How many more weeks of lessons?
Doug - I have 4 more weeks. i teach at a year round
Mary/PA - Doug, as long as the child hasn't seen that text before, I don't wee the harm in using it for lessons. I would probably not use it for discontinuing just in case someone has read the book to the child sometime in the past and thus the child has the advantage of a strong sense for the meaning
pd - Doug, what kind of break do you get between school years?
Mary/PA - It might not give the best picture of the child's orchestration
leftcoast - I went to a workshop in my district today, for K and 1 teachers, and they would like all K and 1 teachers to learn to do the OS, to identify the strengths of their kids, and so they can teach from the known.
Doug - 20 days off and then it begins again...and no I can't use my K OS scores and start roaming on day 2..........
pd - Leftcoast, that's a step in the right direction.
Mary/PA - We have a little over 6 weeks of school for the year, that might mean about 4 weeks to get everything done for RR. I don't know for sure, we have a meeting tomorrow to find out the details.
Mary/PA - I'm happy that we are using the online forms and not those scantrons this year, it makes things easier
leftcoast - WE have 10 weeks left, and I don't know what year end stuff is required in RR as this is my first year.
Doug - Mary- we get to use them next year. Did you get a secret code from the data center yet/
pd - We have about 7 and a half weeks left of school. The nice thing is that our school has served all the 1st graders up to level 16 and now we can start working with some of the low Ks.
Mary/PA - Doug, yes, we each have our own logon info
Mary/PA - It is set up so that the TL can see all that we input, that is good, it should help the TL's as well.
leftcoast - I just got some new books from Scholastic, the alphakids series, and one of my TL's helped develop them. I've started using the level one in my K class
Doug - pd- the other 3 tracks have K teachers that do rr and they get to use their OS scores from K because it is within the 3 week period...i get jealous
leftcoast - Maybe they are not in the US
Mary/PA - leftcoast, do they seem good?
Mary/PA - Has anyone seen a copy of the new booklist?
pd - Doug, you just miss the cut off...too bad!!
leftcoast - I've only got the first 3 levels, because they are for my K class, and I used coupons, but yes, they are good
Pat - I have a question about doing running records. If a child calls a word wrong should you correct it or let him keep calling it wrong.
pd - Is he appealing?
Doug - pat- a running record is a window into the reading process. it is not a teaching activity it is an informal test to see how they use strategies and use the 3 language cues....does that help?
Mary/PA - Pat, only tell if the child asks, or won't go on. If it is a word that he keeps reading wrong, score it wrong each time UNLESS it is a Proper Name, then it is scored as an error only the first time even though he says it wrong several times
Doug - pat- are you saying that he or she does not monitor his reading enough to pick up on the repeated miscue?
pd - If you tell the word, then you are taking away the opportunity for the child to notice the error later on and fix ti himself.
pd - I just noticed my error. FIX IT
Mary/PA - Pat, Doug makes a good point. If you tell the child the word right away, you are not giving the burden of monitoring to the child.
Doug - pat- try saying try it and then try that again and if its a long pause and no reading work is being done then it may be in the child's interest to give the told
Pat - Mary, thanks for the information. This was how I interpreted it but I was doing a rr on Friday and a child made the same error 7 times. It brought him down to instructional but I scored it as independent because he understood what he was reading.
leftcoast - that's a really good question. What is it is, say, a word ending like "looked" instead of "looks" and it recurs throughout. I usually correct it after the third time so that he/she won't fix it incorrectly in memory
pd - I often notice, though, when I give a told on the rr, the child commits the same error the next day in familiar reading.
Mary/PA - Pat, you don't need to change the level. I just make a note about the 7 repeated errors. It's just one book. Or is this for something other than RR lessons?
Doug - pat - if a child miscues on a word repeatedly it is better to leave it alone until the child can notice it for herself...this is self-monitoring or checking on oneself
Mary/PA - leftcoast, I wouldn't do that during a running record. I would take it to a teaching point after. During a first read, I would prompt..."Does it look right at the beginning, middle and end?"
greedycat - Are RR teachers at your site testing for other RR teachers in the SAME building for discontinuation or do they have to use someone from another building?
pd - I share a room with another RR teacher. She discontinues my child as I do a lesson with one of hers.
Mary/PA - Giving tolds doesn't usually lead to learning. Giving a prompt that triggers some thinking often does lead to some new learning.
Doug - greedycat- we work it so if I do a running record for discontinuing. Then she will do a lesson for a child that I miss. It seems to work well
greedycat - While I know that GB says there is no fixed level....what level are you looking for at the end of the year for discontinuation?
leftcoast - Mary, I have a little one who is at level 15 in reading, and who usually is orchestrating the strategies. However the writing is not at that level, and the writing is not transferring to the classroom, eg spacing between words, using case properly etc. She shows many of the characteristics of s learning disable child, but that of course doesn't mean she can't learn to read. I am worried about discontinuing her. My TL seems to think she is only a few weeks from being discontinued
Mary/PA - We can now test within our own buildings. Our teachers in training are now trained enough to do that. This is the first year that we have had more than one RRT in a building
Pat - I'm not a reading recovery teacher but I thought this would be the best place to get the information.
Pat - I think I must apologize to the group. I didn't realize there were specific topics for discussion. Thanks for the info.
leftcoast - I have another question about discontinuing. First years are being asked to do it. I don't think I'm ready yet.
Mary/PA - leftcoast, spend more time on writing with her. If she can read at level 15, she is not leaning disabled. She just needs to work on her writing.
pd - What are your concerns about discontinuing, Leftcoast?
Mary/PA - No problem, Pat, I hope that we've been able to help you
Mary/PA - leftcoast, you can do it. It's usually easier to observe another teacher's child. You will see and hear things without the clutter of past history. You will know if the child is orchestrating or not
greedycat - leftcoast....have you gone into her classroom during journal writing time to show her how to use what she does in lessons to write in the classroom? Or brought her journal to RR lessons?
Doug - pat- there is a discussion in the archives on running records if you look under early primary.....i hope that helps
leftcoast - This little girl is using lots of strategies, but directionality is not mastered
Pat - Thanks you have.
leftcoast - I have done both of those journal suggestions, and her classroom teacher has more RR experience than I have, and taught her in K last year.
pd - Mary, I had a LD student last year who discontinued. He is unable to do higher level activities with books, stories ideas in his 2nd grade classroom. LD students can do RR successfully, but there may be other factors down the road.
Doug - leftcoast- directionality being left to right, return sweep or getting lost in a sea of one page of print and told not to point?
leftcoast - doug, left to right. She will attack words right to left, invert word order if it makes sense, eg "said Mom" for "Mom said", and on occasion write from right to left. She "knows" left to right and return sweep.
greedycat - TL modeled how to discontinue a child BTG for in-training teachers this year. The demo was helpful...to see her begin with a familiar read to "warm up" and then see how the test book was introduced
Doug - leftcoast- try lifting the text out of print and show her the text and have her monitor her reading that way. use the strip to show her left to right or start using cumulative analysis (crash) some people call it ...all of these are in the GB and focus on sequencing or left right miscues
Doug - left coast- to lift the text...copy the problem sentence onto strip paper and cut it by phrases or words
Mary/PA - Our time is almost up. What do we want for a topic next time?
leftcoast - She monitors her continuous text reading very well. When she comes to a word that she needs to work out, usually in first reading, she goes r to l. and it shows in her writing.
Doug - Mary- what would you like to chat about....heinemann is coming out with Clay's book in June but this is may
Vicks - Is Clay coming out with a new book?
Doug - leftcoast its not monitoring but active searching and using the 3 cues to check
Mary/PA - How about books? I don't think we've ever just talked about them. eg. what are some of your favorites? what's new? etc.
Vicks - That sounds like a great idea.
Mary/PA - We will be getting our orders for next year put together and I'll want to know what would be good to get
Doug - I'll plug pioneer publishers...half the price of PM readers and they use photos and the font is very appealing
pd - Mary, we could also talk about books that help you as a reading teacher.
pd - Doug, I love the pioneer books. I want to get some.
Mary/PA - pd, that sounds good to me
Mary/PA - Also, any other materials that we use and find helpful
leftcoast - bye everybody. see you next time. Are pioneer available in Canada
Mary/PA - bye, leftcoast, thanks for coming
Doug - Mary like a table short enough for the child to see....LOL
pd - When's the next chat time?
Mary/PA - I hope to see you next time as well
Doug - bye everyone...nice chatting
Mary/PA - May 14th should be the day'
Mary/PA - We meet the 2nd and 4th Monday of each month
pd - Thanks all. Good night!
Mary/PA - Good night all
Mary/PA - Thanks for coming
