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Mary/PA - Welcome to this evening's Reading Recovery Meeting here at Teachers.Net.
Mary/PA - Tonight we will discuss "Discontinuing the Child's Program, what should we see and hear?".
tyylee - Hi all. Is everyone stressing with all the end of the year testing and reports?
kinderkateCA - Actually I'm on Multi-track year round. We don't do reports until August.
Mary/PA - How close to the end of the year are you folks? Are you still teaching lessons? We have 22 days to go, I can still teach for at least two more weeks before I have to do end of the year testing
kinderkateCA - I don't get off until August - but am interested in the topic anyway.
Mary/PA - Oh my, are you year round?
kinderkateCA - yes - multitrack.
Mary/PA - Where are you in lessons now with your kids?
Mary/PA - Are any close to Discontinuing?
kinderkateCA - I'm in second round week 4.
kinderkateCA - I have one of my first round who is in week 22. (I took 5 first round).
Mary/PA - kinderkate, what do you do the other part of your day? I could never fit in 5 with my schedule
tyylee - We have eighteen more days of school but my rr reports are due on the twenty-fourth of May so I will start testing next week.
Mary/PA - kinderkate, is your 22 week child close to ready to discontinue?
kinderkateCA - I have literacy groups from the first grades. I usually have 3 literacy groups, 4 RR kids. When I have 5 RR kids I just take 2 groups. It is still harder, though.
Mary/PA - tyylee, are your last group of children going to discontinue the program?
tyylee - Mary, about how many words do you expect the child to write on the OS at the end of the year?
kinderkateCA - I decided to take her a couple of more weeks than the standard 20 because she is a second language learner and her break starts next week. I will test her this week. She has days that it appears she could discontinue, but I'm afraid her oral language will hold her back.
Mary/PA - Around 50 is usually a good number for us
kinderkateCA - OK - 50 words, but are they words that you tell them, or are they words that they think of off the top of their heads and write?
tyylee - I have two children who will discontinue and one more that might if I wait to test her until the last minute. Unfortunately the other child needs another month or more. But I can take him in Title next year.
kinderkateCA - Has the other child had a full program, tyylee?
Na - At what level do you discontinue students?
Mary/PA - The number of words would depend more upon what the average children in the homeroom or regular reading class write. Ours don't do a lot of writing
tyylee - None of this round of children will have had the full twenty weeks, but the lowest has had the most weeks.
Mary/PA - kinderkate, it's words that they think of. If they stall out I'll prompt with something like "Think of all the animals that you can write.
tyylee - Mary, do you practice word writing during lessons? Mine have trouble thinking of words to write.
kinderkateCA - At the end of the year our kids are to be on level 14 or 16 (I think - like I said I'm not there yet) What about ya'll?
Mary/PA - At this time of year we disc. at level 16, but only if all the strategies are in place and they can get everything to work together in an orchestrated way
tyylee - We were told levels 14-16 but that 18 would be better.
Bette - I like to think of 18 because it takes care of loss during the summer
didi - We were told we can prompt with words from their word list
Bette - i do that
Cyndy - WE disc at 14 only if strategies are very strong; prefer 16
Mary/PA - tyylee, yes, we have done it a couple of times, but just for 2 min. each time - then we compare the number written each time. I should do it more often
kinderkateCA - didi - I think that would be the only way I could get 50 words. They have lots of words that they know, they just can't think of them.
Cyndy - OS says to prompt, so we all do.
didi - Isn't it also important to check where the class reading level is at
kinderkateCA - what level did your 2d rounders come in at?
Cyndy - 6,6,2,5
Bette - but they could transfer to another school so we like to think of a district average
Cyndy - they are now at 12, 12, 17, 13
tyylee - Do your fluent readers interchange words like a and the? I have one who does this consistently and it really knocks their percentages down if I count it every time.
Bette - yes
didi - How many weeks Cindy
didi - Yes Tylee
Cyndy - mine do mix and/the sometimes, but I give a very high level prompt like TTA, and they usually find it
Mary/PA - Prompt does not mean to say words for them to write, it means to prompt the thinking, for example, write all the doing words you know, or color words, ... general categories to get them thinking
Mary/PA - At least that's what we have been told
kinderkateCA - That was a topic of discussion at my last CC, tyylee. I'm taking an assessment course - for a CA reading certificate. We do a running record on the BADER test. In it we don't count a/the errors as meaningful.
Cyndy - 2 are at 30 lessons and 2 are at 15-17 lessons
kinderkateCA - That's what I thought Mary, however there are single word prompts on our testing sheet.
kinderkateCA - Do you check comprehension at all?
Cyndy - Boy, I've been doing single words along with categories for several years, now. Usually I'll prompt 2 words as in OS: like can you write going or pool?
Mary/PA - Ok, if you guys say that it is all right to do it, then I will as well! Sounds good to me
tyylee - Do you ever ask comprehension questions after taking a running record for the OS? It seems that the children can sometimes get a passing score without really knowing what they are reading/
kinderkateCA - Hey - hey - don't go by me. The RR police might get us.
Mary/PA - tyylee, all the time, we are told to always go to the meaning with some kind of question or comment before doing the teaching point
Cyndy - Since out kids all get the DRA in grade 2, and a local vermont assessment in grade 1 that includes comp, I'll often say, so What was the problem in the story? How did it get solved? stuff like that. It helps them be prepared.
tyylee - We were told that we could prompt for specific words after the children have exhausted their own ideas and the categories.
Mary/PA - kinderkate, I think that they may be too busy right now
kinderkateCA - We do DRA here also, cyndy. Do you find they levels correlate with RR levels?
Mary/PA - How are your kids doing with taking words apart while reading?
Cyndy - Another comp. connection is when they do the writing, you might say- let's tell what the three pigs problem was; or lets write something about what happened with Carol and her frog.
tyylee - Mary, too busy checking to see if all the bubbles are filled in properly???????? bubble, bubble, toil, and trouble
kinderkateCA - Good idea, Cyndy.
Mary/PA - yes, tyylee
Cyndy - Kinderkate, the DRa does correspond with accuracy, but the retelling component that we do in Vermont sometimes is a downfall for less verbal kids. They are learning HOW to do retelling in their grade 2 curriculums now.
kinderkateCA - What do you do with writing at the end of the year? I just don't have time to go into more than one sentence.
kinderkateCA - So Cyndy, if a child tested in DRA at 14 he would be close to than in RR?
tyylee - My children are pretty good at taking words apart but do not often use analogies unless I have shown them first.
kinderkateCA - What % accuracy do your students have to get in DRA?
Mary/PA - One of my kids read "The Napping House" last week. I just thought that I'd check to see if it was a AR book and was surprised to find that it's listed as a 3.0 AR book! I haven't checked any others, has anyone found any huge differences like this?
Cyndy - It depends a lot on what you've chosen for a new book- if it is a PM, you barely have time to get IT read, much less do two sentences. I just try to get a nice complex sentence with a couple of phrases/clauses included. Often there is not much they still need help with near year end
tyylee - Kinder, I sometimes read every other page of the familiar reading books to speed up the story and also to model fluent expressive reading. It allows more time for writing.
Mary/PA - tyylee, mine are using analogies fairly well now, all but one, but she's absent so much she doesn't seem to know where she is most of the time
kinderkateCA - AR book, Mary?
Cyndy - Kinderkate- I think they'd correspond pretty well. The texts in the DRA that we use in Vermont are some of the Scott-Foresman stories. We do something a little different, which is why our DRA is called the Vermont-DRA. I'm not really sure what the actual differences are, because I've never seen a non-Vermont DRA
Cyndy - I remember seeing the Napping House as a 15 somewhere
Mary/PA - Cyndy, it is 15 in RR, but 3.0 in AR
kinderkateCA - I really like using trade books at the higher levels. DO any of you have lists with RR levels?
Cyndy - good idea on the shared reading tylee, I do that too.
tyylee - Mine can do the analogies when I show them a word that they know but if I ask them to think of a word they know that looks like that they falter. Got any hints to help with this?
kinderkateCA - Darn - I have to go to a class - that's why I haven't been visiting recently. I will check the archives later for the rest of the meeting. Take care, all!!!!
didi - The shared reading has helped one of my slow processors
kinderkateCA - If anyone has a list of RR levels of trade books leave it here and I'll check back later.
Cyndy - Good idea tylee, I often share-read too.
didi - Tyylee I have the same problem I find analogies hard to teach
Mary/PA - tyylee, I started writing a word that they can use on a chunk of sentence strip and then cut the chunk that they could apply to a new word, seems that they can see it better than using mag letters, maybe because it is together
tyylee - You might try Leveled books.com for some trade book levels.
Mary/PA - Check this site for trade books - http://www.aplusbooks.com/
didi - We have tried using a sentence strip and masking the unknown word in the book with the letters of a known word ie put l on the strip and cover the t in took so they see look on the page
tyylee - Mine can do the analogies when I show them the words they know but they seem to be unable to think of them independently. I will try the sentence strip chunk.
didi - What do you mean by trade books?
Mary/PA - didi, trade books are what we call books that you can buy at a book store or find in a library
Mary/PA - not those that are published by a company for the purpose of teaching reading, like Rigby or Wright Group
didi - Thanks Mary
Mary/PA - didi, how close to Discontinuing are your children?
didi - Do you find some children thrive on PM and others its hard work
tyylee - Mary, give us a list of things you look for when taking a running record for discontinuing a child.
Mary/PA - didi, you don't have the have your kids read certain books when testing out, right? The way that we have to do here in the States.
Mary/PA - I look for the things that Marie lists in the GB
didi - Mary We are on our first round as its 2nd week of 2nd term I just referred one who has learning problems at level 10 after 20 weeks
renee - do you find children who are still ESl students are able to discontinue?
Mary/PA - But mostly I look for them to read mostly fluently at levels 16 or above, they also need to be able to problem solve quickly on the run
didi - Mary We are on our first round as its 2nd week of 2nd term I just referrred one who has learning problems at level 10 after 20 weeks
renee - sorry, children - ESL
didi - Mine are on week 12 levels 5,9 and 10 and 1 child lesson 5 of roaming
Mary/PA - didi, level 10 at the end of first term would not be a concern here in my district :-(
didi - My girl on 5 had 2 weeks away but has stalled wont use intial sound even
didi - Mary He started last year in Year one and is now being checked for learning disabilities having repeated preschool
Mary/PA - renee, I don't have any ESL kids. I do see many that don't seem to have any language skills though - they are the hardest to teach
Mary/PA - I can't help with the ESL questions :-(
didi - My new one is aboriginal and has aboriginal enlish so it will be interesting to see how he goes
Mary/PA - didi, I see, he's been one to watch for some time now
didi - Mind you he can write well with very high writing OS scores but is level 2 reading
tyylee - Do you count something as an error if it is in the childs gramatical language, eg goin for going
Mary/PA - tyylee, in reading or in writing?
Mary/PA - in reading, goin for going, I don't could it as wrong, but in writing I would
didi - No But its the missing of 'is' and those little words that are interferring with his reading
tyylee - usually in reading. he uses comed for came etc. When he composes a sentences he uses his gramatical terms.
Mary/PA - didi, I have kids like that, they don't use those little words when they talk, and it is so hard for them to learn to use them and they aren't second language students, they just don't use language much at all
didi - I have one saying comed for came and wondered if they look and see come but put 'ed' on the end to make it sound right
Mary/PA - tyylee, now comed I would could as wrong in reading, I would get him to "make it look right"
tyylee - didi, yes, my child can see and read come and came when I point them out to him but he adds the ed to make it sound right to him. We have gone over and over this but when reading fluently comed comes out
Mary/PA - Now that's a thought, but it doesn't look right at the end, so they have to try again
tyylee - good point.
didi - But with a lot of imature speech thats how they talk.
Mary/PA - I have had several kids through the years that will do whatever they can to make the book say what THEY want it to say. I tell them that they MUST read what is written on the page, they are not to make the books say what they think is SHOULD say
didi - Sounds like one of mine at level 9 we are battling that at present
Mary/PA - didi, I know that's how they talk, that is why it is important for them to learn to look at print and in so doing they will learn how book language is
didi - Any clues of what to do with my one stuck at 5
Mary/PA - sorry, it SHOULD, not is
tyylee - Do you find that when reading the higher levels of books there are more words that need some introduction, especially the longer words that they need to see how to chunk and figure out. We are told three words but I find some books need four or five.
Mary/PA - What seems to be holding him back? Is it his language?
didi - What do you do when you introduce the words Tyylee
Mary/PA - tyylee 3 words? in predict and locate? which is now "New and Important Words"
tyylee - sometimes when a child gets stuck at a level they need to build their sight vocab so they have secure 'islands of certainty'. In those cases I have been known to send some flash cards home to practice or take a little of the familiar book time to review high frequency words.
Mary/PA - These new words, are they concepts?
didi - Sh ewont attend to print and isn't taking on her responsibility of working
didi - there is little tpo no home support
Mary/PA - didi, do you think that maybe you should drop down a level or two and tell her that you will not help unless she really needs it?
tyylee - I am talking about words that you introduce during the book introduction by using them orally, or do a predict and locate. I find that some of the new longer words are better discussed before reading starts so the flow and fluency is not interupted.
didi - Possibly Mary she is coming out instructional and been on 5 for about 10 days
Mary/PA - didi, maybe she needs to build up her confidence with easier material for a bit of time
Mary/PA - What should we discuss next time?
tyylee - Bubble questions??? LOL (just kidding)
didi - Possibly look at prompts
didi - Possibly Mary that could help maybe I'm just worried she's a bit lazy
Mary/PA - didi, yes, teacher talk is something that we haven't discussed - we are often told that we talk too much and should stick with the prompts.
Mary/PA - didi, sometimes they will act lazy but it's really fear of failure that is shutting them down. It's easier and safer to act lazy than to risk feeling not able
